From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 21:56:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

I remember once that I did a factory reset on an old phone, intending to install the same things for another account. I could not install again
some of the apps because the Android version was old, and they no longer
had those apps in G Play.

I can concur with Carlos, and pretty much everyone in the world, in that
we've all, at times, reset a PC or mobile device w/o having EVERYTHING
backed up prior. We've learned from all those mistakes over time.

For example, on Windows, I save every install where it belongs.
(e.g., c:\installers\shells\android\adb)

I then install each & every program where it belongs.
(e.g., c:\apps\shells\android\adb)

And of course, I add a shortcut to the taskbar menu where it belongs.
(e.g., menus > shells > android > adb.lnk

And, for some programs, I keep data where it belongs, but that's harder.
(e.g., c:\data\shells\android\adb)

To back up the installers is as simply as copying "installers".
It's the same with most operating systems not designed by Apple.

With Android, the google play store replacement app saves the installer.
Even Android saves the installer (so it's actually auto-saved twice).

That allows plenty of backup & restore strategies for the user.

The main point of this offshoot though is that if you *want* to back up
your Android APKs, you can (and in fact, it's mostly done already for you).

Same with Linux & Windows.

But on iOS, you can't.
And that's bad.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-14 17:26, Marion wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 21:56:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

I remember once that I did a factory reset on an old phone, intending to
install the same things for another account. I could not install again
some of the apps because the Android version was old, and they no longer
had those apps in G Play.

I can concur with Carlos, and pretty much everyone in the world, in that we've all, at times, reset a PC or mobile device w/o having EVERYTHING
backed up prior. We've learned from all those mistakes over time.

For example, on Windows, I save every install where it belongs.
(e.g., c:\installers\shells\android\adb)

I then install each & every program where it belongs.
(e.g., c:\apps\shells\android\adb)

And of course, I add a shortcut to the taskbar menu where it belongs.
(e.g., menus > shells > android > adb.lnk

And, for some programs, I keep data where it belongs, but that's harder.
(e.g., c:\data\shells\android\adb)

To back up the installers is as simply as copying "installers".
It's the same with most operating systems not designed by Apple.

With Android, the google play store replacement app saves the installer.
Even Android saves the installer (so it's actually auto-saved twice).

That allows plenty of backup & restore strategies for the user.

The main point of this offshoot though is that if you *want* to back up
your Android APKs, you can (and in fact, it's mostly done already for you).

Same with Linux & Windows.

But on iOS, you can't.
And that's bad.

And you never once mention the importance of backing up one's DATA.

Apps can be (usually) be installed from the same source you got them in
the first place, but the data you create, accumulate and store in those
apps can't be recovered from anywhere.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:26, Marion wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 21:56:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote :

I remember once that I did a factory reset on an old phone, intending to >>> install the same things for another account. I could not install again
some of the apps because the Android version was old, and they no longer >>> had those apps in G Play.

I can concur with Carlos, and pretty much everyone in the world, in that
we've all, at times, reset a PC or mobile device w/o having EVERYTHING
backed up prior. We've learned from all those mistakes over time.

For example, on Windows, I save every install where it belongs.
  (e.g., c:\installers\shells\android\adb)

I then install each & every program where it belongs.
  (e.g., c:\apps\shells\android\adb)

And of course, I add a shortcut to the taskbar menu where it belongs.
  (e.g., menus > shells > android > adb.lnk

And, for some programs, I keep data where it belongs, but that's harder.
  (e.g., c:\data\shells\android\adb)

To back up the installers is as simply as copying "installers".
It's the same with most operating systems not designed by Apple.

With Android, the google play store replacement app saves the installer.
Even Android saves the installer (so it's actually auto-saved twice).

That allows plenty of backup & restore strategies for the user.

The main point of this offshoot though is that if you *want* to back up
your Android APKs, you can (and in fact, it's mostly done already for
you).

Same with Linux & Windows.

But on iOS, you can't.
And that's bad.

And you never once mention the importance of backing up one's DATA.

Apps can be (usually) be installed from the same source you got them in
the first place, but the data you create, accumulate and store in those
apps can't be recovered from anywhere.

Sure it can, if you bother to do regular backups to icloud and/or your coumputer (using itunes or whatever apple has for your computer type).

The program code is downloaded fresh from the "app store", and you may
end up with a later version, possibly unwanted, but it's data and
settings are in your normal backups.

I'm surprised you didn't know this!

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.

The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup
app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

I have no real suggestion/solution, other than adb (and MTP).

An (non-Google) Android app cannot provide a solution, because on a non-rooted phone, it can't backup the /Internal storage/Android folders
(data, obb?, others?), which contains the settings and data of all the
apps.

Because I have a Samsung phone, I could use the Samsung Smart Switch
program on Windows, but that is not flexible enough for backing up what
you want and not backing up what you don't want. It is oriented in
categories instead of in folders and for some categories, it's all or
nothing.

Using my Motorola phone I can transfer from old phone to new phone most things. But not to disk. And I don't remember if all data is
transferred. Photos, maps...

You could try the 'Smart Switch Mobile' [1] [2] Android app. For
transfer to another device, it runs on any (i.e. also non-Samsung)
device. I don't know if it then can also make backup (to cloud, SD-card
or USB-stick). The reference [2] implies it can. (I do no longer have a recent/working non-Samsung device to try.)

Same for the Smart Switch PC program for Windows [2]. Probably only
works if the source is a Samsung device (reference [2] only works if you specify 'GALAXY'), but you can try.

For a non-automated backup you can use MTP. With MTP you *can* access
the /Internal storage/Android folders. For example in Windows File
Explorer, this accesses the folder which contains the OsmAnd+ maps:

This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files

But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible
in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File Explorer? No idea.)

The MTP method should also work in Linux (and on macOS? and on
ChromeOS?).

FWIW, because of these limitations, I no longer bother with full
Android backup. I only backup the folders which *are* accessible on a non-rooted device.

For all my apps, at least the important ones, I investigate if I can recover/recreate the settings or/and data, if I lose them. For example
in OsmAnd+ you can export settings, etc, and backup those and all maps
can be reloaded. For apps which have complicated settings, which can not
be exported/backed-up, I document which settings I have changed. Some
apps have their own backup methods (for example WhatsApp). Some apps
only need account credentials. Etc. etc.. Of course this whole mechanism
is documented in a file which *is* backed up! :-)

Sofar, in nearly 12 years, I haven't had any major mishaps, so I'll
continue to use my "Can not backup, so prepare to recover recreate.'
method.

Hope this helps.

[1]
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sec.android.easyMover>

[2]
<https://www.samsung.com/us/apps/smart-switch/>
See 'How to transfer' -> GALAXY -> Backup and restore from PC or Mac ->
Windows
For using the Smart Switch Mobile Android app to *backup* (not
transfer), see 'Other Android' -> 'Backup and restore from external
storage'
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 21:22:45 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote :

I'm surprised you didn't know this!

EDIT: (There's a plan for backing up data in the 2nd half of this missive.)

It's no longer shocking what Alan Baker will insist can't be, when everyone
but Alan Baker knows it (see a perfect example in my own header above).

Alan Baker has owned a bimmer for years and yet disputed what they're
commonly called in technical circles; and Alan Baker claims to 'teach
racing' and yet clearly has never studied the physics involved in
navigating differently various basic curves.

Alan Baker insists Apple has never done wrong (simply because, to him,
paying a half a billion dollars so that they don't have to admit guilt is
proof that Apple cannot do wrong because Apple has too much money to do
so).

Even the fact that Apple was charged with crimes and that Apple paid the
French prosecutor for those crimes, means, to Alan, that it never happened.

Moving on ... we're here to improve our technical knowledge, where I have
(what I think is) sage advice for how to plan on backing up all your data.

As for the technical aspect of backing up data, I've been doing that for as many decades as the rest of you have, starting back in the 1960's on
magtape and punched cards (sorry, I never learned how to use punched tape).

It's my opinion, based on experience, that on Linux/Windows, you have to
plan for your data backup the day you set up your system. This is why I
have a directory for data on Windows that exactly mirrors the app dir.
installers: C:\software\editors\text\gvim\.
apps: C:\apps\editors\text\gvim\.
Taskbar menu: menu > editors > text > gvim.lnk
data: C:\data\editors\text\gvim\. (e.g., tmp files & settings)

Your plan banks on being able to set the data directory of each program at
the time you install that program. Fat chance getting Adobe products to
respect that plan; but there are programs out there which allow you to set
the data directory (e.g., OSMAnd~ on Android allows you a map directory).

However, executing the strategic plan of backing up data is sort of like
what happens during war the moment there is contact with the enemy.

The enemy gets a vote.
Hence, no plan survives intact after contact with the enemy.

It's the same with backing up your data.

The only plan that works all the time is to plan how you're going to back
up your system the day you set up that system - and then - you modify that
plan upon contact with each app or program.

Consider the program installation your first contact with the enemy.
And change the plan accordingly - since the program gets a vote.
--
I never use plurals in dirs or files but added it here for readability.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-15 15:18, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >>>> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.

The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup
app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

I have no real suggestion/solution, other than adb (and MTP).

An (non-Google) Android app cannot provide a solution, because on a non-rooted phone, it can't backup the /Internal storage/Android folders (data, obb?, others?), which contains the settings and data of all the
apps.

Because I have a Samsung phone, I could use the Samsung Smart Switch program on Windows, but that is not flexible enough for backing up what
you want and not backing up what you don't want. It is oriented in
categories instead of in folders and for some categories, it's all or nothing.

Using my Motorola phone I can transfer from old phone to new phone most
things. But not to disk. And I don't remember if all data is
transferred. Photos, maps...

You could try the 'Smart Switch Mobile' [1] [2] Android app. For
transfer to another device, it runs on any (i.e. also non-Samsung)
device. I don't know if it then can also make backup (to cloud, SD-card
or USB-stick). The reference [2] implies it can. (I do no longer have a recent/working non-Samsung device to try.)

Same for the Smart Switch PC program for Windows [2]. Probably only
works if the source is a Samsung device (reference [2] only works if you specify 'GALAXY'), but you can try.

For a non-automated backup you can use MTP. With MTP you *can* access
the /Internal storage/Android folders. For example in Windows File
Explorer, this accesses the folder which contains the OsmAnd+ maps:

MTP is what I do. Sometimes I have used a WiFi file server app on the
phone instead. Sometimes I found that one can see files the other
doesn't, but I don't remember which.

This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files

But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible
in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File Explorer? No idea.)

In Linux we can access the filesystem. Once I tell the equivalent of the
file explorer to access the phone, then it is also accessible under:

/run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp:host=motorola_moto_g52_SOME_LETTERS

for any app. This is using with a gtk desktop, with KDE it is somewhere
else.

Then I can use rsync and copy links to the files in the previous backup.

The MTP method should also work in Linux (and on macOS? and on
ChromeOS?).

FWIW, because of these limitations, I no longer bother with full
Android backup. I only backup the folders which *are* accessible on a non-rooted device.

For all my apps, at least the important ones, I investigate if I can recover/recreate the settings or/and data, if I lose them. For example
in OsmAnd+ you can export settings, etc, and backup those and all maps
can be reloaded. For apps which have complicated settings, which can not
be exported/backed-up, I document which settings I have changed. Some
apps have their own backup methods (for example WhatsApp). Some apps
only need account credentials. Etc. etc.. Of course this whole mechanism
is documented in a file which *is* backed up! :-)

Sofar, in nearly 12 years, I haven't had any major mishaps, so I'll continue to use my "Can not backup, so prepare to recover recreate.'
method.

One phone suddenly died on me, the display went blank, IIRC. Another one
died when I took a swim on the sea. Both predated Android, had simply contacts, SMS, and photos of limited quality. They needed an special
cable to share the photos and special software.

Hope this helps.

[1]
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sec.android.easyMover>

[2]
<https://www.samsung.com/us/apps/smart-switch/>
See 'How to transfer' -> GALAXY -> Backup and restore from PC or Mac -> Windows
For using the Smart Switch Mobile Android app to *backup* (not
transfer), see 'Other Android' -> 'Backup and restore from external
storage'

--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-15 09:11, Marion wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2025 21:22:45 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote :

I'm surprised you didn't know this!

EDIT: (There's a plan for backing up data in the 2nd half of this missive.)

It's no longer shocking what Alan Baker will insist can't be, when everyone but Alan Baker knows it (see a perfect example in my own header above).

Alan Baker has owned a bimmer for years and yet disputed what they're commonly called in technical circles; and Alan Baker claims to 'teach
racing' and yet clearly has never studied the physics involved in
navigating differently various basic curves.

And now you make up a new lie.

Your original lie was that my not happening to know which term was used
for BMW cars versus their bikes ("Bimmers" vs "Beemers"—I still don't
care which is used for which) meant I couldn't possibly own one.

Alan Baker insists Apple has never done wrong (simply because, to him,
paying a half a billion dollars so that they don't have to admit guilt is proof that Apple cannot do wrong because Apple has too much money to do
so).

Another lie.

Even the fact that Apple was charged with crimes and that Apple paid the French prosecutor for those crimes, means, to Alan, that it never happened.

"Charged"? Yes.

Found guilty of them? No.

Moving on ... we're here to improve our technical knowledge, where I have (what I think is) sage advice for how to plan on backing up all your data.

As for the technical aspect of backing up data, I've been doing that for as many decades as the rest of you have, starting back in the 1960's on
magtape and punched cards (sorry, I never learned how to use punched tape).

It's my opinion, based on experience, that on Linux/Windows, you

have to

plan for your data backup the day you set up your system. This is why I
have a directory for data on Windows that exactly mirrors the app dir.
installers: C:\software\editors\text\gvim\.
apps: C:\apps\editors\text\gvim\.
Taskbar menu: menu > editors > text > gvim.lnk
data: C:\data\editors\text\gvim\. (e.g., tmp files & settings)

Your plan banks on being able to set the data directory of each program at the time you install that program. Fat chance getting Adobe products to respect that plan; but there are programs out there which allow you to set the data directory (e.g., OSMAnd~ on Android allows you a map directory).

However, executing the strategic plan of backing up data is sort of like
what happens during war the moment there is contact with the enemy.

The enemy gets a vote.
Hence, no plan survives intact after contact with the enemy.

It's the same with backing up your data.

The only plan that works all the time is to plan how you're going to back
up your system the day you set up that system - and then - you modify that plan upon contact with each app or program.

Consider the program installation your first contact with the enemy.
And change the plan accordingly - since the program gets a vote.

My plan is to use appropriate backup software to deal with the entire
system.

In days past, that was most often an application called "Retrospect"
which I set up for clients both on individual systems, or using a backup server. Now I only use it for my Windows clients.

For those using Macs (including myself), I simply use the excellent
built-in backup software, "Time Machine".

:-)
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 17:26:01 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

Actions speak louder than words, little boy. And you always side with
Arlen - religiously (you even forgave him for impersonating you lol).

I will agree with anyone who speaks the truth or makes a rational
statement, even you on occasion. But I learned my lesson the last time
I agreed with you when I realized you were lying.

Hi badgolferman,

Logic. And sense. Equals reason.

Like you, and like any logically sensible adult, I will agree with anyone
who makes a claim that is logically and sensibly sound, and you know that.

I will even openly & willingly apologize publicly if I say something that
turns out to be incorrect - and you know that also.

These Apple trolls? Hmmm.... they never do either.
Their only goal is to defend Apple's honor... to the death. No matter what.

With respect to the technical problem of copying files off of iOS to any
other platform without using the cloud, the Apple trolls claim that iTunes
can do it and that SMB can do it.

And yet, Apple publicly disavows any support whatsoever of Linux.
And Android.

So how do these Apple trolls copy files from iOS to Android?
(HINT: They don't. They lied.)

When the Apple trolls claim to copy from iOS to Android using the Files SMB capability, they're lying because it's not possible (to my knowledge).

If it is possible to copy from iOS to Android using SMB, let them tell me
how they did it because Frank Slootweg taught me years ago that an unrooted Android can't set up an SMB server (due to the SMB ports being below 1024).

And how do these Apple trolls use iTunes on Windows safely & securely?
(HINT: They don't. They lied.)

The Apple trolls are banking on us not knowing the facts about iTunes.

It has been *many* years since the iTunes bloatware abomination had the capability of copying the IPA to the Windows platform (and even then,
iTunes grabbed that IPA from the App Store - not from the iOS device!)

So the only way they're doing it, today, is that they're not.
They lied.

Not only does that many years old iTunes bloatware abomination have known zero-day exploit which Apple has not fixed in those deprecated versions,
but if the Apple trolls were to initiate that backup today using that old software, it *still* grabs the IPA from the *current* iOS App Store.

So they lied doubly so (since what they claim is impossible to do).
They can NOT get older IPAs. They can only get the *current* IPA.

Not only do these Apple trolls have to use known exploited bloatware to do that, but that bloatware doesn't work on Android nor on Linux (which Apple
says they will never support).

In summary, I think I make a logically sensible reasonable case against
using iTunes to copy files between iOS and every other platform we use.

The Apple trolls vehemently (actually viciously) disagree. By lying.
(HINT: That's what Apple trolls do.)

Apple trolls think nothing of lying to defend Apple's honor to the death.
--
This lack of logic & sense has been what the Apple Trolls have been doing
for decades on any newsgroup which contains any other operating system.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Sun, 13 Apr 2025 18:50:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote :

Then use the far simpler method of connecting to your Windows machine via
the Files app. Make sure you have Sharing enabled in Windows first. Simple >> and new apps required.

Thanks, but I use Linux, and I already stated I'm fine with just using
ifuse and a usb cable. Or KDE Connect.

I will agree with anyone who says something sensible that is logically defensible, where I agree with candycane that Linux iFuse is the way to go.

What AFC/iFuse allows on Linux is bidirectional iOS transfers over USB!

When I used to dual boot my Windows desktop to Ubuntu, I was initially
shocked at how *easy* it was to attain USB read access to iOS' file system!
<https://i.postimg.cc/s2x0f9Js/files14.jpg> Linux, win10 & iOS together
<https://i.postimg.cc/g269S8rT/files13.jpg> How does macOS work with iOS?
<https://i.postimg.cc/pVJf72fN/files12.jpg> iOS hacks very often will fail
<https://i.postimg.cc/cChf8mx1/files11.jpg> iOS requires hacks to copy
<https://i.postimg.cc/9MGdc2s7/files10.jpg> Android is 2-way fast over USB
<https://i.postimg.cc/mDx3xkp4/files09.jpg> iOS is only DCIM & only 1-way
<https://i.postimg.cc/3xcCBngd/files08.jpg> iOS is a dumb brick on Windows
<https://i.postimg.cc/KjK4nHwf/files07.jpg> Ubuntu is two-way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/Jhmy9KH7/files06.jpg> Ubuntu iFuse is just magical
<https://i.postimg.cc/qqg61Rh8/files05.jpg> Ubuntu, movies _to_ iOS on USB
<https://i.postimg.cc/QMk7tvZW/files04.jpg> Ubuntu is two way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/d3SGkdgr/files03.jpg> Android is two way, everything
<https://i.postimg.cc/L8b18Zmx/files02.jpg> iOS "Files" is nothing useful
<https://i.postimg.cc/NFkXsJ0X/files01.jpg> iOS/Win is 1-way & DCIM only

That's USB. Not SMB. Not anything else. It's USB file transfers with iOS!

Since all that USB magic was done by iFuse, I desperately searched for a Windows implementation of iFuse - but alas - it doesn't appear to exist.

That's sad because with tricks using Apple File Conduit (AFC) over USB that only one in a million people are aware of, you can write to iOS' filesys.

Yes. Write. To much of the iOS filesys. Not just to DCIM!
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios180.jpg> Read & write all!
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios170.jpg> Anywhere you want
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios160.jpg> Any file you want
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios150.jpg> Copy Win10 to iOS
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios140.jpg> read & write iOS
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios130.jpg> iFuse mounts all!
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios120.jpg> iFuse mounts iOS
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios110.jpg> iFuse Windows mnt
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios100.jpg> iFuse is native
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios090.jpg> Nobody knows this
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios080.jpg> The trick!
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios070.jpg> Look closely
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios060.jpg> Both read & write
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios050.jpg> Including DCIM
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios040.jpg> View iOS filesys
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios030.jpg> iOS mounts
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios020.jpg> Allow access?
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios010.jpg> Trust Computer?
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios000.jpg> Ubuntu before iOS

Notice I copied huge feature-length films from Ubuntu to iOS sandboxes!
Alas, iFuse & AFC do not exist (AFAIK) on either Windows and Android.

If anyone knows of an AFC/iFuse implementation on Android/Windows, please
let me know as being able to do USB bidirectional file xfer is fantastic!
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-15 10:54, Marion wrote:

On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 17:26:01 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

Actions speak louder than words, little boy. And you always side with
Arlen - religiously (you even forgave him for impersonating you lol).

I will agree with anyone who speaks the truth or makes a rational
statement, even you on occasion. But I learned my lesson the last time
I agreed with you when I realized you were lying.

Hi badgolferman,

Logic. And sense. Equals reason.

Like you, and like any logically sensible adult, I will agree with anyone
who makes a claim that is logically and sensibly sound, and you know that.

I will even openly & willingly apologize publicly if I say something that turns out to be incorrect - and you know that also.

You claimed I could own a BMW 135i because I didn't know how "bimmer"
and "beemer" were used...

...yet you said just today:

"Alan Baker has owned a bimmer for years and yet disputed what they're
commonly called in technical circles; and Alan Baker claims to 'teach
racing' and yet clearly has never studied the physics involved in
navigating differently various basic curves."

And given that I can prove beyond any doubt that I am a member (and past chairman) of the Race Drivers Committee of the Sports Car Club of
British Columbia, and have SHOWN the proof, the last part of that
sentence is clearly false as well.

'The Race Drivers Committee organizes and operates the SCCBC Race Driver Training Program. The driver training program is an important part of preparing to enter the sport of racing at Mission and is a prerequisite
to acquiring a Novice race license. The twice annual Race Driver
Training program provides unparalleled instruction on handling vehicles
under extreme conditions. For more information, visit the Race Drivers Training Program page.

Membership on the Race Drivers Committee is by invitation only. The
committee is comprised of some of the best racers in British Columbia.
Most committee members have won championships in their class while
others have done consistently well over the years and have proven
themselves capable of excelling in all race conditions.'

<https://www.sccbc.net/about-sccbc/race-drivers/>

'SCCBC Race Drivers Committee

Race Drivers Committee Chairman Alan Baker
Driver Training Registrar Keith Robinson'

<https://web.archive.org/web/20230209055254/https://www.sccbc.net/about-sccbc/race-drivers/>

These Apple trolls? Hmmm.... they never do either.
Their only goal is to defend Apple's honor... to the death. No matter what.

With respect to the technical problem of copying files off of iOS to any other platform without using the cloud, the Apple trolls claim that iTunes can do it and that SMB can do it.

And yet, Apple publicly disavows any support whatsoever of Linux.

Another factual claim without any supporting evidence...

And Android.

So how do these Apple trolls copy files from iOS to Android?
(HINT: They don't. They lied.)

No one I saw claimed that files can be copied from iOS to Android.

When the Apple trolls claim to copy from iOS to Android using the Files SMB capability, they're lying because it's not possible (to my knowledge).

No one I saw claimed that.

The rest of your straw man argument snipped.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2025-04-15 15:18, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[...]

For a non-automated backup you can use MTP. With MTP you *can* access the /Internal storage/Android folders. For example in Windows File Explorer, this accesses the folder which contains the OsmAnd+ maps:

MTP is what I do. Sometimes I have used a WiFi file server app on the
phone instead. Sometimes I found that one can see files the other
doesn't, but I don't remember which.

Yes, I have also found such servers, but none for recent Android
versions (10 and higher), which can access the /Internal storage/Android folders.

This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files

But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible
in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File Explorer? No idea.)

In Linux we can access the filesystem. Once I tell the equivalent of the file explorer to access the phone, then it is also accessible under:

/run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp:host=motorola_moto_g52_SOME_LETTERS

for any app. This is using with a gtk desktop, with KDE it is somewhere else.

Then I can use rsync and copy links to the files in the previous backup.

Could you give an example (Linux) 'cp' command which shows what the
source and destination paths look like?

In Windows you can't specify a source path for a 'copy', etc., because
such a path does not exist for MTP, so - being an old Unix/UNIX and
current GNU user - I am interested what it looks like on Linux (for
MTP).

Or is the source just a path relative to /run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp?

[...]
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-15, Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 17:26:01 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

Actions speak louder than words, little boy. And you always side with >>>Arlen - religiously (you even forgave him for impersonating you lol).

I will agree with anyone who speaks the truth or makes a rational
statement, even you on occasion. But I learned my lesson the last
time I agreed with you when I realized you were lying.

You *regularly* side with Arlen, who *constantly* lies. So your
judgement there is laughably questionable at best, and a fucking joke at
worst.

But I'll indulge you anyway: Go ahead and point out this supposed "lie"
you claim I made, badgolferman. Absent of that, it's you who are lying.
🙂
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-15 20:27, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2025-04-15 15:18, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[...]

For a non-automated backup you can use MTP. With MTP you *can* access >>> the /Internal storage/Android folders. For example in Windows File
Explorer, this accesses the folder which contains the OsmAnd+ maps:

MTP is what I do. Sometimes I have used a WiFi file server app on the
phone instead. Sometimes I found that one can see files the other
doesn't, but I don't remember which.

Yes, I have also found such servers, but none for recent Android
versions (10 and higher), which can access the /Internal storage/Android folders.

I have not tried recently.

This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files

But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible >>> in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup
utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File >>> Explorer? No idea.)

In Linux we can access the filesystem. Once I tell the equivalent of the
file explorer to access the phone, then it is also accessible under:

/run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp:host=motorola_moto_g52_SOME_LETTERS

for any app. This is using with a gtk desktop, with KDE it is somewhere
else.

Then I can use rsync and copy links to the files in the previous backup.

Could you give an example (Linux) 'cp' command which shows what the
source and destination paths look like?

cp /run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp\:host\=motorola_moto_g52_ZLETTERS/Almacenamiento\ interno\ compartido/DCIM/Camera/ /home/cer/Photos


The trick is that "gvfs" means something virtual filesystem. The G could be gnome or gtk, dunno.

In Windows you can't specify a source path for a 'copy', etc., because such a path does not exist for MTP, so - being an old Unix/UNIX and
current GNU user - I am interested what it looks like on Linux (for
MTP).

Or is the source just a path relative to /run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp?

[...]

It is an emulation layer. MTP does not support every operation a true filesystem does.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Tue, 4/15/2025 5:31 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-15 20:27, Frank Slootweg wrote:

   In Windows you can't specify a source path for a 'copy', etc., because >> such a path does not exist for MTP, so - being an old Unix/UNIX and
current GNU user - I am interested what it looks like on Linux (for
MTP).

   Or is the source just a path relative to /run/user/1000/gvfs/mtp?

[...]

It is an emulation layer. MTP does not support every operation a true filesystem does.

MTP supports objects, and a read and write operation on those objects.

Whereas MTPfs is the FUSE file system (created as a wrapper, without any control over
or conversation with the designers of MTP).

An ordinary file system, would work with a partition and a physical layer. That's why it needs more disk operating commands at that physical layer.

MTP does exactly what is required of it. It is a "minimalist" design,
which is "over-minimalized". It is inefficient. MTPfs would be an attempt
to try to fix it, from a distance.

But doing all this flopping about, is just bad. It should be a case study for
a comp.sci class. You'll notice Google tried to fix it, to fix one of the
worst aspects of it -- and that hints, if there had been more industry
input in the first place, it would not have been such a pudgy disaster.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 15 Apr 2025 13:18:40 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote :

This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files

But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible
in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File Explorer? No idea.)

I will agree with anyone who says anything logically sensible, where I
agree with Frank that there must be a DIY backup mechanism to Windows.

On the one topic of the paradoxical observation that both Frank Slootweg
and I have experienced of what can be "seen" by the PC vs the phone...
<https://i.postimg.cc/1zrmSmQc/davroot.jpg> Windows can see Android root!

I also have been surprised when the PC can see *far* more of the Android
file system than the (non rooted) Android device itself can see.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Zngy0SGT/filesys03.jpg> Look at /etc/resolv.conf

Sure, we all know ADB can back up the system /etc/hosts file but even
without ADB, I can read (and write) to far more of the Android file system
from the PC than from the phone itself. From the Windows command line!
<https://i.postimg.cc/nzFmPTKt/filesys04.jpg> cmd line access to /etc

For example, when I mount the Android as a Windows drive letter, I can read "almost" the entire system (not all of it - but a lot more than you'd
expect). And I can write to some of the system filesys too I think.
<https://i.postimg.cc/PJF1ZZwn/filesys05.jpg> Look at the dnsproxy file

In summary, given my observation that when mounting an Android filesystem
as a drive letter on Windows that you can see far more than you'd expect to see, one possible backup mechanism might be to use a Windows copy script.
<https://i.postimg.cc/2SxM8V16/rootfilesystem.jpg> Windows root access!
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >>> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.

   The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup
app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd'
commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??
--
Daniel70
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >>>> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.

   The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??

On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into
the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.

But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that. Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting
to a good time.

On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment.
For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-16 03:53, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough
experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.

   The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup
app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd'
commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??

Straight from the macOS Terminal app:

"DD(1)
General Commands Manual
DD(1)

NAME
dd - convert and copy a file

SYNOPSIS
dd [operands ...]

DESCRIPTION
The dd utility copies the standard input to the standard output. Input
data is read and written in 512-byte blocks. If input reads are short,
input from multiple reads are aggregated to form the output block. When finished, dd displays the number of complete and partial input and
output blocks and truncated input records to the standard error output."

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >>>>> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.

   The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The >>>> Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??

On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest). I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into
the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.

But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting
to a good time.

On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment.
For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.

Paul

Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of
every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-16 22:26, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other
methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough
experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to
transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.

    The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The >>>>> Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no >>>>> ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup
app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd'
commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??

On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-
rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into
the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the
computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it
has got.

But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks
like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting
to a good time.

On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment.
For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.

    Paul

Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...

Not on a phone.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Wed, 4/16/2025 4:26 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience >>>>>> by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.

    The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The >>>>> Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>>>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??

On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest). >> I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into
the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.

But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting
to a good time.

On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment.
For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.

    Paul

Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...

But not make a copy of the disk while it is "hot".
The MacG4 Quad Nostril does not have VSS and shadow copy for hot backups.

The purpose of using a second OS, is so the boot drive is
not being accessed and no files are open. It's a forensic copy.

We do the same thing with Macrium backups. A "hot" backup
is good enough for most purposes, and uses VSS. But if you
want a "forensic" backup, then you boot the Macrium Rescue CD,
and the the C: drive is at-rest and you could even backup
pagefile.sys if you wanted. Not that there is a reason to
do that.

On modern Windows, the pagefile is seldom used
(in the name of SSD wear...). I don't really understand
the technical changes that made it work like that. One
reason it doesn't page, is the Memory Compressor, but that's
not the whole story. It will page, if the reserve gets too low
(you will see a "spike" of pagefile activity, which is better
than having the OS crash).

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-16 14:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-16 22:26, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other
methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough
experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to
transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.

    The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The >>>>>> Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but
no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi- >>>>>> Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full
backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd'
commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations. >>>>
Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??

On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu
PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be
at- rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into
the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the
computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it
has got.

But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks
like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting
to a good time.

On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment.
For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.

    Paul

Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system
of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...

Not on a phone.

You seem to be a little hard of reading:

"Is there a similar commandline command [] or Apple Mac??"

"On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to
transfer out the disk (which would be at- rest)."

But of those make direct reference to a Mac.

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 14:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-16 22:26, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other
methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough >>>>>>>> experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to
transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.

    The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup >>>>>>> ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but >>>>>>> no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi- >>>>>>> Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full
backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd'
commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux
installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac?? >>>>

On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the
Ubuntu PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be
at- rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into >>>> the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on
the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it
has got.

But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks
like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting >>>> to a good time.

On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment. >>>> For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect >>>> a simple trick to work in such a case.

    Paul

Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system
of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...

Not on a phone.

You seem to be a little hard of reading:

"Is there a similar commandline command [] or Apple Mac??"

"On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to
transfer out the disk (which would be at- rest)."

But of those make direct reference to a Mac.

Did you read this before you posted it? Most of what you've written
aren't even sentences.

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-16 15:54, Hank Rogers wrote:

Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 14:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-16 22:26, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other >>>>>>>>> methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough >>>>>>>>> experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to
transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.

    The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup >>>>>>>> ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but >>>>>>>> no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by >>>>>>>> Wi- Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full
backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd'
commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux
installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac?? >>>>>

On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the
Ubuntu PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be
at- rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into >>>>> the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on
the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface
it has got.

But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for
tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting >>>>> to a good time.

On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment. >>>>> For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not
expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.

    Paul

Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-
system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...

Not on a phone.

You seem to be a little hard of reading:

"Is there a similar commandline command [] or Apple Mac??"

"On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to
transfer out the disk (which would be at- rest)."

But of those make direct reference to a Mac.

Did you read this before you posted it?  Most of what you've written
aren't even sentences.

Typing fast can result in typos.

Were you really not able to understand it...

...or did you just want to snark?
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 4:26 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as >>>>>>> well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the >>>>>>> backup to another device using USB and so on.

    The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB. >>>>>> The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac??

On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC >>> DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into
the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.

But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting
to a good time.

On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment.
For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect
a simple trick to work in such a case.

    Paul

Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...

But not make a copy of the disk while it is "hot".
The MacG4 Quad Nostril does not have VSS and shadow copy for hot backups.

So make a second boot drive for the Mac.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Wed, 4/16/2025 9:52 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 4:26 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.

     The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>>>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac?? >>>>

On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC >>>> DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into >>>> the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.

But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting >>>> to a good time.

On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment. >>>> For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect >>>> a simple trick to work in such a case.

     Paul

Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...

But not make a copy of the disk while it is "hot".
The MacG4 Quad Nostril does not have VSS and shadow copy for hot backups.

So make a second boot drive for the Mac.

I stopped opening up the G4 after a while. It required sitting
on my kitchen floor and "cradling the scissor case" when opening it.
That's to avoid stressing the cables in it.

The machine does have multiple drives. It even has an Acard IDE controller
and IDE disks in it. It has an Async SCSI for my scanner. It does not lack
for storage. But I was getting tired of sitting on the kitchen floor,
so after a while, the case just stayed shut. That was my daily driver
for quite a while, but it was my last Apple product. I had two other
Apple machines, and one of those had six expansion cards in it (all
the slots were full).

This is one of the reasons, in the current computer room, *the* most popular computer, is the one with a flat door panel with a handle on it. I used to have computer cases, where the silly drives used to slide into front mount
tray holes (it would take like ten minutes to change a drive),
but the machine with the nice door, the trays face the user
and are immediately accessible. I have "enjoyed the hell" out of the
two of those I own. The trays for the disks are steel, so you don't have
to worry about the competitor cases that use plastic trays. That's
the Antec Sonata case. It's amazing, what a few convenience features
makes to your opinion of a thing.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-16 22:15, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 9:52 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 4:26 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.

     The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or >>>>>>>> USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac?? >>>>>

On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can
gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC >>>>> DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into >>>>> the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.

But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting >>>>> to a good time.

On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and
you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment. >>>>> For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect >>>>> a simple trick to work in such a case.

     Paul

Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...

But not make a copy of the disk while it is "hot".
The MacG4 Quad Nostril does not have VSS and shadow copy for hot backups. >> So make a second boot drive for the Mac.

I stopped opening up the G4 after a while. It required sitting
on my kitchen floor and "cradling the scissor case" when opening it.
That's to avoid stressing the cables in it.

And you've never heard of external drives?

We're talking about a special purpose boot drive you'd only use to do
your dd backup.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-17 07:15, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 9:52 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:

This is one of the reasons, in the current computer room, *the* most popular computer, is the one with a flat door panel with a handle on it. I used to have
computer cases, where the silly drives used to slide into front mount
tray holes (it would take like ten minutes to change a drive),
but the machine with the nice door, the trays face the user
and are immediately accessible. I have "enjoyed the hell" out of the
two of those I own. The trays for the disks are steel, so you don't have
to worry about the competitor cases that use plastic trays. That's
the Antec Sonata case. It's amazing, what a few convenience features
makes to your opinion of a thing.

I have the Antec P101. Way too big, I can not figure out the sizes when shopping on a web page like Amazon. Of course I can see the specs, but
then I'm surprised when I actually have it on my hands. It is a pleasure
to work inside, but I had to modify the computer rack to hold it.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Thu, 4/17/2025 2:45 AM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 22:15, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 9:52 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 4:26 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 05:28, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 6:53 AM, Daniel70 wrote:

On 15/04/2025 6:01 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-14 17:48, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

Arno Welzel, 2025-04-14 13:18:

Frank Slootweg, 2025-04-13 15:57:

[...]

Yes, I agree, that Android has the flexibility to user other methods as
well, like backup apps, ADB and so on - but this needs enough experience
by the user like how to set up ADB on a computer or how to transfer the
backup to another device using USB and so on.

      The methods I mentioned do not require the user to setup ADB. The
Smart Switch Android-to-Windows backup does use a USB-cable, but no ADB.
The Smart Switch Android app can transfer to another phone by Wi-Fi or
USB and can backup to cloud, SD-card or USB-stick.

That's a Samsung app, I understand. What about a generic full backup app, non adb? For any operating system, not Windows only?

Don't know about a Samsung App but, in Linux, I can use a 'dd' commandline command to back up both my Windows and Linux installations.

Is there a similar commandline command for Android and/or Apple Mac?? >>>>>>

On computing devices that support booting from a second OS, you can >>>>>> gain "dd" access from the second OS. On my MacG4, I booted the Ubuntu PPC
DVD, and used Ubuntu "dd" to transfer out the disk (which would be at-rest).
I used a command line FTP session, and you can mix shell commands into >>>>>> the ftp commands -- dd can be piped into a (binary) "put". And on the computer
I did that on, the GbE at 112MB/sec, that's the fastest interface it has got.

But something like a phone, there are fewer opportunities for tricks like that.
Rooting the phone, if you can manage it, is as close as you're getting >>>>>> to a good time.

On at least one phone, the NAND is hidden underneath something, and >>>>>> you can't cable up and read-out the NAND chip with external equipment. >>>>>> For some of the devices, it's pretty well secured. You would not expect >>>>>> a simple trick to work in such a case.

      Paul

Or you could just use the "dd" command built into the Unix sub-system of every Mac since Mac OS X was first released in 2001...

But not make a copy of the disk while it is "hot".
The MacG4 Quad Nostril does not have VSS and shadow copy for hot backups. >>> So make a second boot drive for the Mac.

I stopped opening up the G4 after a while. It required sitting
on my kitchen floor and "cradling the scissor case" when opening it.
That's to avoid stressing the cables in it.

And you've never heard of external drives?

We're talking about a special purpose boot drive you'd only use to do your dd backup.

The boot was a DVD (Ubuntu PPC Linux, with dd on it).
Ubuntu does live sessions from the DVD. Nothing to install.
And that's really all I did with that DVD, I wasn't running
Ubuntu regularly on the G4, or making a dual boot situation
or anything. The DVD boot was pretty straight forward, and
good enough for the amount of usage it would get.

The MacG4:

Firewire 400 My enclosures with Oxsemi chip do 30MB/sec
USB 1.1 port Transfers at 1MB/sec to USB storage
GbE Ethernet Transfer at 112MB/sec to another machine.

Much easier for me, to use another machine to help out
and use the GbE for the transfer. But the best part, was
discovering you could pipe "dd" into the FTP "put" command.
That's what made it possible to do without more tricks.
(You can mix shell commands, with the FTP session commands.)

My SCSI disk collection was getting a bit old, and
the disks were 1/4 the size of the IDE drives. I'd used SCSI
for quite a while, up to that point. The SCSI drives had
ball bearing motors, and were quite loud. I wasn't about
to buy more SCSI at that point. I had enough trouble with
the SCSI chain at my desk at work. It really is voodoo
that stuff.

Computing generally sucked for a lot of years.
Unnecessary suckage. As an example of pathetic, AMD
made a chipset with PCI 32 bit (what everyone else was
using), and PCI 64 bit (which could have been special).
But due to some bug in the chip, the PCI 64 bit bus ran
at one quarter of the proper rate :-/ And they released
the chip anyway, as a salute to suckage.

The computing industry, could teach a farmer a
thing or two, about "how to milk a cow". That's what
the clumsy steps forward tell us.

I would not even be on USENET today, except for a motherboard
I bought. I tried to assemble it and get it to run, but
the board wouldn't come up. I spent about three weeks testing
it. I tried to use USENET, to find some help. There was
no one around to help out. Or to point out just what a
lemon the Northbridge on that board was. Apparently the
company making the chip, couldn't afford a chip tester
with enough channels for the Northbridge they built. They
tried to "test the chip as two halves". The chip tech
wasn't nearly fast enough. In other words, every
motherboard shipped with that piece of garbage on it,
was doomed to fail on timing. And I stuck around on
USENET after that, in the motherboard groups, to help out.
At least I could tell you, what board not to buy :-)

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Thu, 4/17/2025 5:08 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-17 07:15, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 9:52 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:

This is one of the reasons, in the current computer room, *the* most popular >> computer, is the one with a flat door panel with a handle on it. I used to have
computer cases, where the silly drives used to slide into front mount
tray holes (it would take like ten minutes to change a drive),
but the machine with the nice door, the trays face the user
and are immediately accessible. I have "enjoyed the hell" out of the
two of those I own. The trays for the disks are steel, so you don't have
to worry about the competitor cases that use plastic trays. That's
the Antec Sonata case. It's amazing, what a few convenience features
makes to your opinion of a thing.

I have the Antec P101. Way too big, I can not figure out the sizes when shopping on a web page like Amazon. Of course I can see the specs, but then I'm surprised when I actually have it on my hands. It is a pleasure to work inside, but I had to modify the computer rack to hold it.

Dimensions 527x232x506mm (DWH) EATX
20.7 9.1 19.9

That's about the same size as the one I got (Phanteks).
They don't have to get too large, before
they're hard to cool. I've blocked some
of the vents in mine, to try to get more
air velocity in other places, but it's
really a losing battle. It's got five fans
in it at the moment.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-17 15:01, Paul wrote:

On Thu, 4/17/2025 5:08 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:

On 2025-04-17 07:15, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 4/16/2025 9:52 PM, Alan wrote:

On 2025-04-16 14:24, Paul wrote:

This is one of the reasons, in the current computer room, *the* most popular
computer, is the one with a flat door panel with a handle on it. I used to have
computer cases, where the silly drives used to slide into front mount
tray holes (it would take like ten minutes to change a drive),
but the machine with the nice door, the trays face the user
and are immediately accessible. I have "enjoyed the hell" out of the
two of those I own. The trays for the disks are steel, so you don't have >>> to worry about the competitor cases that use plastic trays. That's
the Antec Sonata case. It's amazing, what a few convenience features
makes to your opinion of a thing.

I have the Antec P101. Way too big, I can not figure out the sizes when shopping on a web page like Amazon. Of course I can see the specs, but then I'm surprised when I actually have it on my hands. It is a pleasure to work inside, but I had to modify the computer rack to hold it.

Dimensions 527x232x506mm (DWH) EATX
20.7 9.1 19.9

That's about the same size as the one I got (Phanteks).
They don't have to get too large, before
they're hard to cool. I've blocked some
of the vents in mine, to try to get more
air velocity in other places, but it's
really a losing battle. It's got five fans
in it at the moment.

3 in the front, covering the hard disks (I have four), a big one in the
back, another on the power supply, and I think there is one on the video
card, and then the cpu fan.

The outgoing air is not warm.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On 15 Apr 2025 13:18:40 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote :

This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files

But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible
in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File Explorer? No idea.)

I will agree with anyone who says anything logically sensible, where I
agree with Frank that there must be a DIY backup mechanism to Windows.

On the one topic of the paradoxical observation that both Frank Slootweg
and I have experienced of what can be "seen" by the PC vs the phone...
<https://i.postimg.cc/1zrmSmQc/davroot.jpg> Windows can see Android root!

I also have been surprised when the PC can see *far* more of the Android
file system than the (non rooted) Android device itself can see.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Zngy0SGT/filesys03.jpg> Look at /etc/resolv.conf

Sure, we all know ADB can back up the system /etc/hosts file but even
without ADB, I can read (and write) to far more of the Android file system from the PC than from the phone itself. From the Windows command line!
<https://i.postimg.cc/nzFmPTKt/filesys04.jpg> cmd line access to /etc

For example, when I mount the Android as a Windows drive letter, I can read "almost" the entire system (not all of it - but a lot more than you'd expect). And I can write to some of the system filesys too I think.
<https://i.postimg.cc/PJF1ZZwn/filesys05.jpg> Look at the dnsproxy file

In summary, given my observation that when mounting an Android filesystem
as a drive letter on Windows that you can see far more than you'd expect to see, one possible backup mechanism might be to use a Windows copy script.
<https://i.postimg.cc/2SxM8V16/rootfilesystem.jpg> Windows root access!

Yes, an app on Android - in your case the WebDAV Server - can see
part/most of the *root* file system, but it can't look in the
*app-private data areas*: Internal storage\Android\data, etc..

So, as your last screenshot shows, you can look into the com.<name>
folders of some apps, but you will find that those are only *built-in*
apps, i.e. the ones which came with the phone.

You can't get into the Internal storage\Android\data\com.<name>
folders of *user-installed* apps.

So this method is no solution for Android full backup, because it
can't backup the most important part, the user data and settings.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-04-18 10:36, Frank Slootweg wrote:

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On 15 Apr 2025 13:18:40 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote :

This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage\Android\data\net.osmand.plus\files

But 'This PC\Frank's Galaxy A51\Internal storage' is only accessible
in File Explorer, it's not part of the normal file system, nor
accessible as a Network Share, so you can't use normal copy or backup
utilities. (Perhaps in Windows PowerShell one can 'program'/control File >>> Explorer? No idea.)

I will agree with anyone who says anything logically sensible, where I
agree with Frank that there must be a DIY backup mechanism to Windows.

On the one topic of the paradoxical observation that both Frank Slootweg
and I have experienced of what can be "seen" by the PC vs the phone...
<https://i.postimg.cc/1zrmSmQc/davroot.jpg> Windows can see Android root! >>
I also have been surprised when the PC can see *far* more of the Android
file system than the (non rooted) Android device itself can see.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Zngy0SGT/filesys03.jpg> Look at /etc/resolv.conf

Sure, we all know ADB can back up the system /etc/hosts file but even
without ADB, I can read (and write) to far more of the Android file system >> from the PC than from the phone itself. From the Windows command line!
<https://i.postimg.cc/nzFmPTKt/filesys04.jpg> cmd line access to /etc

For example, when I mount the Android as a Windows drive letter, I can read >> "almost" the entire system (not all of it - but a lot more than you'd
expect). And I can write to some of the system filesys too I think.
<https://i.postimg.cc/PJF1ZZwn/filesys05.jpg> Look at the dnsproxy file

In summary, given my observation that when mounting an Android filesystem
as a drive letter on Windows that you can see far more than you'd expect to >> see, one possible backup mechanism might be to use a Windows copy script.
<https://i.postimg.cc/2SxM8V16/rootfilesystem.jpg> Windows root access!

Yes, an app on Android - in your case the WebDAV Server - can see part/most of the *root* file system, but it can't look in the
*app-private data areas*: Internal storage\Android\data, etc..

So, as your last screenshot shows, you can look into the com.<name> folders of some apps, but you will find that those are only *built-in*
apps, i.e. the ones which came with the phone.

You can't get into the Internal storage\Android\data\com.<name>
folders of *user-installed* apps.

So this method is no solution for Android full backup, because it
can't backup the most important part, the user data and settings.

Imagine that:

Arlen not speaking "only facts".
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 18 Apr 2025 17:36:47 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote :

Yes, an app on Android - in your case the WebDAV Server - can see
part/most of the *root* file system, but it can't look in the
*app-private data areas*: Internal storage\Android\data, etc.

Yes. That's the part that initially surprised me when I saw that.
The WebDAV app can see more than the file manager apps can see.
Even some file managers can see more than other file managers.

I'd have thought it would be more consistent.
As it is, we have to try every file manager to see which is best.

I just counted mine. I have twenty file managers, in this order.
RoundSync
MiX
ZArchiver
Ghost Commander
SMTFile Manager
MK Explorer
FX Explorer
Samsung MyFiles
Amaze
Amaze Utilities
X-plore
OI File Manager
Material Files
Files.nbu
Files.marc
Explorer
Simple Explorer
Solid Explorer
Cx File Explore
Dir

So, as your last screenshot shows, you can look into the com.<name>
folders of some apps, but you will find that those are only *built-in*
apps, i.e. the ones which came with the phone.

Oh. Interesting observation. I hadn't noticed what the delta was.
Thanks for that astute observation.

You can't get into the Internal storage\Android\data\com.<name>
folders of *user-installed* apps.

Yeah. I knew it wasn't everything. But I didn't know what was protected.

So this method is no solution for Android full backup, because it
can't backup the most important part, the user data and settings.

Agreed. I hope I didn't sound like I was suggesting it for a FULL backup.
I just meant you can back up more than what you see in a typical file
manager.

And you can back up using a batch file with the drive letter such as

robocopy P:\ <destination> /E /COPYALL

(Assuming your sdcard, for example, is mounted as drive "P:" on Win10.)

Thanks for the clarifications. I will agree with anyone who makes sensible statements just as I disagree with anyone who doesn't (which could be the
same person at any given time - which I find odd that other people find
that even-keeled attitude strange to them). I'm not religious that way.

If God tells me the truth, I believe it & thank him.
If God tells a lie, I confront him.

What matters to me isn't the person - but what they say.
Each interaction is water under the bridge.
The next interaction starts the process anew.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On Wed, 9 Apr 2025 12:42:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

This does exist, I worked for a company which allowed PGP in their
corporate email, but using a doctored version that added a key owned by
the company, so that they could read any email.

Is that Free Software? Well, their PGP version was published, license unchanged, AFAIK.

Did they prevent you from substituting your own version?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.system

On 2025-07-12 02:18, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 9 Apr 2025 12:42:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

This does exist, I worked for a company which allowed PGP in their
corporate email, but using a doctored version that added a key owned by
the company, so that they could read any email.

Is that Free Software? Well, their PGP version was published, license
unchanged, AFAIK.

Did they prevent you from substituting your own version?

No. But you could be fired for breach of regulations or whatever.

Maybe in contradiction with current laws on data protections in the EU
and Spain; but this is corporate mail, not private mail. Touchy.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2