...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/365/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift DB6
chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more profitable things.
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift DB6
chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent maintaining a
Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift DB6
chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent maintaining a
Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR 6.11.1.D, Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift DB6
chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent maintaining a
Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR 6.11.1.D, Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift DB6
chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent maintaining
a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/541/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st in
Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in Wisconsin: >>>>>
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf> >>>>>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift DB6 >>>>> chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent maintaining >>>>> a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more profitable things. >>>>>
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/541/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st in
Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You said
he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in Wisconsin: >>>>>>
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf> >>>>>>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift
DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/541/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st in
Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR 6.11.1.D, >>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You
said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when
confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy. So
typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have been
leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way that can be true if a Ford
can be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in Wisconsin: >>>>>>>
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift >>>>>>> DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/541/ >>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st in >>>>> Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR 6.11.1.D, >>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You
said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when
confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy. So
typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have been
leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he moved to
aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the video, that's
certainly true. But your claim has always been that the Ford can't be
competitive with the Honda and there's no way that can be true if a
Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race I
would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is not
true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver. Had he
not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional standings.
In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an opportunity to
pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent was
a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car, Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? YOU said that.
THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or that the other
person who disagrees with you is right. Such people are also totally
blind to their disorder.
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in Wisconsin: >>>>>>>
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift >>>>>>> DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/541/ >>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st in >>>>> Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR 6.11.1.D, >>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You
said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when
confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy. So
typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have been
leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he moved to
aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the video, that's
certainly true. But your claim has always been that the Ford can't be
competitive with the Honda and there's no way that can be true if a
Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race I
would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is not
true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver. Had he
not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional standings.
In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an opportunity to
pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent was
a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car, Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? YOU said that.
THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or that the other
person who disagrees with you is right. Such people are also totally
blind to their disorder.
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in Wisconsin: >>>>>>>
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift >>>>>>> DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/541/ >>>>> FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st in >>>>> Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR 6.11.1.D, >>>>> Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You
said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when
confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy. So
typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have been
leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he moved to
aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the video, that's
certainly true. But your claim has always been that the Ford can't be
competitive with the Honda and there's no way that can be true if a
Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race I
would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is not
true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver. Had he
not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional standings.
In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an opportunity to
pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent was
a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car, Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? YOU said that.
THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or that the other
person who disagrees with you is right. Such people are also totally
blind to their disorder.
On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift >>>>>>>> DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>> profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st
in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You
said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when
confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy.
So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have been
leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he moved to
aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the video,
that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that the Ford
can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way that can be
true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race I
would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is not
true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver. Had he
not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional
standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an
opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed
the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were
competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent
was a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would
dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car,
Liarboy.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a dozen teams that get to the final rounds: it is as if you're trying to claim that
the baseball team that loses in the World Series must "suck" because
they didn't win in the final round. Sorry, but they had to have beaten
a lot of other teams before they got to the final rounds. Point is that the mere presence of a Kent in the finals indicates that the Formula organizers have done a good job in balancing their index of performance.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the Kent
when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? YOU
said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make an
invalid claim: that a Kent requires higher maintenance explains why
fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't just as good of a performer on the track.
In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing ones in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg Honda) and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the means means that
there's a 90% probability that the winning car is going to be red.
Same principle applies here: if Kents really are objectively inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance' doesn't apply
and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the prior elimination
rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the finals.
OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
representation in the final playoff field should be similar to what % of
the total population of competitive cars are fielded, no matter if
that's 10%, 50% or 90%. Ditto for Honda.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits of
a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the narcissistic
hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or that the other
person who disagrees with you is right. Such people are also totally
blind to their disorder.
Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when
examining factors within populations: why did you miss it so badly?
-hh
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift >>>>>>>> DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>> profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st
in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You
said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when
confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy.
So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have been
leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he moved to
aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the video,
that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that the Ford
can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way that can be
true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
Nope. When I wrote it, I didn't know about the SCCA's decision.
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race I
would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is not
true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver. Had he
not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional
standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an
opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed
the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
And where have I said the penalty wasn't appropriate, Liarboy?
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were
competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent
was a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would
dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car,
Liarboy.
And the only reason you now hold that position is that, /I/ had to
explain that there is more to racing that speed on the track.
And your original position was that the Honda made me FASTER ON THE TRACK.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the Kent
when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? YOU
said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
I never said it couldn't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent
basis, Liarboy.
I said it would COST more in money and time.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits of
a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the narcissistic
hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or that the other
person who disagrees with you is right. Such people are also totally
blind to their disorder.
Right back at ya, ashole.
On 10/10/2024 8:31 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift >>>>>>>>> DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>>> profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st >>>>>>> in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You
said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when
confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy.
So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have been
leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he moved
to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the video,
that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that the Ford
can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way that can be
true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
Nope. When I wrote it, I didn't know about the SCCA's decision.
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race I
would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is
not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver.
Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional
standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an
opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed
the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
And where have I said the penalty wasn't appropriate, Liarboy?
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were
competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent
was a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would
dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car,
Liarboy.
And the only reason you now hold that position is that, /I/ had to
explain that there is more to racing that speed on the track.
And your original position was that the Honda made me FASTER ON THE
TRACK.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the Kent
when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? YOU
said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
I never said it couldn't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent
basis, Liarboy.
I said it would COST more in money and time.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits
of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
are also totally blind to their disorder.
Right back at ya, ashole.
You misspelled asshole
You bought the Honda because you can't afford to maintain a Kent in top racing form. It did make you faster.
On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift >>>>>>>>> DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>>> profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st >>>>>>> in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You
said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when
confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy.
So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have been
leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he moved
to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the video,
that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that the Ford
can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way that can be
true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race I
would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is
not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver.
Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional
standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an
opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed
the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were
competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent
was a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would
dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car,
Liarboy.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a dozen
teams that get to the final rounds: it is as if you're trying to
claim that the baseball team that loses in the World Series must
"suck" because they didn't win in the final round. Sorry, but they
had to have beaten a lot of other teams before they got to the final
rounds. Point is that the mere presence of a Kent in the finals
indicates that the Formula organizers have done a good job in
balancing their index of performance.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the Kent
when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? YOU
said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make an
invalid claim: that a Kent requires higher maintenance explains why
fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't just as good of a
performer on the track.
In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing ones
in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg Honda)
and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the means means
that there's a 90% probability that the winning car is going to be red.
Same principle applies here: if Kents really are objectively inferior
performers on the track, then the above 'random chance' doesn't apply
and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the prior elimination
rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the finals.
OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
representation in the final playoff field should be similar to what %
of the total population of competitive cars are fielded, no matter if
that's 10%, 50% or 90%. Ditto for Honda.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits
of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
are also totally blind to their disorder.
Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when
examining factors within populations: why did you miss it so badly?
-hh
Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in the runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior that there
are few left or if their are many they don't perform well enough to make
the Runoffs.
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift >>>>>>>> DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>> profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st
in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You
said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when
confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy.
So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have been
leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he moved to
aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the video,
that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that the Ford
can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way that can be
true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race I
would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is not
true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver. Had he
not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional
standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an
opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed
the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were
competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent
was a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would
dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car,
Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the Kent
when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? YOU
said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits of
a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the narcissistic
hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or that the other
person who disagrees with you is right. Such people are also totally
blind to their disorder.
Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin time presumably)...
...on October 5.
Just another example of your careful understanding of the situation, hmmm?
On 2024-10-10 20:17, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>>>> profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st >>>>>>>> in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You >>>>>> said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when >>>>>> confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy. >>>>>> So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he
moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the
video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that
the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race
I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is
not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver.
Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional
standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an
opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed
the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were
competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent
was a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would
dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car,
Liarboy.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a dozen
teams that get to the final rounds: it is as if you're trying to
claim that the baseball team that loses in the World Series must
"suck" because they didn't win in the final round. Sorry, but they
had to have beaten a lot of other teams before they got to the final
rounds. Point is that the mere presence of a Kent in the finals
indicates that the Formula organizers have done a good job in
balancing their index of performance.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the
Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis?
YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make an
invalid claim: that a Kent requires higher maintenance explains why
fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't just as good of a
performer on the track.
In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing ones
in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg Honda)
and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the means means
that there's a 90% probability that the winning car is going to be red.
Same principle applies here: if Kents really are objectively
inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance'
doesn't apply and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the prior
elimination rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the finals.
OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
representation in the final playoff field should be similar to what %
of the total population of competitive cars are fielded, no matter if
that's 10%, 50% or 90%. Ditto for Honda.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits
of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
are also totally blind to their disorder.
Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when
examining factors within populations: why did you miss it so badly?
-hh
Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in the
runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior that there
are few left or if their are many they don't perform well enough to
make the Runoffs.
Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
On 10/11/24 1:59 AM, Alan wrote:
Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents
in the runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so
inferior that there are few left or if their are many they don't
perform well enough to make the Runoffs.
Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
Unsurprising that Tommy believed I was affirming him, not debunking
him.
He claims it to be something in economics, IIRC.Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
If he did, it wasn't in anything STEM which required mathematics.
On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in
Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The Swift >>>>>>>>> DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>>> profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st >>>>>>> in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You
said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when
confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy.
So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have been
leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he moved
to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the video,
that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that the Ford
can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way that can be
true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race I
would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is
not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver.
Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional
standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an
opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed
the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were
competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent
was a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would
dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car,
Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the Kent
when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? YOU
said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits
of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
are also totally blind to their disorder.
Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin time
presumably)...
...on October 5.
Just another example of your careful understanding of the situation,
hmmm?
<crickets.wav>
On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>>>> profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st >>>>>>>> in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You >>>>>> said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when >>>>>> confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy. >>>>>> So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he
moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the
video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that
the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race
I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is
not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver.
Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional
standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an
opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed
the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were
competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent
was a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would
dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car,
Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the
Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis?
YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits
of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
are also totally blind to their disorder.
Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
time presumably)...
...on October 5.
Just another example of your careful understanding of the situation,
hmmm?
<crickets.wav>
Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire species,
and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. The cause of so
few Kents at this level of competition is that all things considered
they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there would be a lot more entered.
The Runoffs FF engine market has for years been dominated by Honda.
Prove me wrong.
Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did not
even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted you
never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case of
cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do you understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda? Interesting question, no?
In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show up
at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up this
year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the Kent? Why
not just one class?
In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/october/ formula-ford-festival
Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are they afraid of?
On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>>>> profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st >>>>>>>> in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You >>>>>> said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when >>>>>> confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy. >>>>>> So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he
moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the
video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that
the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race
I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is
not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver.
Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional
standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an
opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed
the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were
competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent
was a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would
dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car,
Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the
Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis?
YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits
of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
are also totally blind to their disorder.
Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
time presumably)...
...on October 5.
Just another example of your careful understanding of the situation,
hmmm?
<crickets.wav>
Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire species,
and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect.
The cause of so
few Kents at this level of competition is that all things considered
they are not competitive.
If the Kent is, all things considered, a more
competitive engine than the Honda, there would be a lot more entered.
The Runoffs FF engine market has for years been dominated by Honda.
Prove me wrong.
Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did not
even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted you
never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case of
cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do you understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race.
I'm looking at FF engine
choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda? Interesting question, no?
On 2024-10-10 20:20, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 8:31 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>>>> profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, 1st >>>>>>>> in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR
6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule
infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. You >>>>>> said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the when >>>>>> confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won", Liarboy. >>>>>> So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he
moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the
video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that
the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
Nope. When I wrote it, I didn't know about the SCCA's decision.
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race
I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That is
not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another driver.
Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the provisional
standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver out of an
opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had he followed
the rules he very likely would not have even won a provisional first.
And where have I said the penalty wasn't appropriate, Liarboy?
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have been
VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they were
competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If the Kent
was a better engine overall on performance and cost the Kent would
dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-powered car,
Liarboy.
And the only reason you now hold that position is that, /I/ had to
explain that there is more to racing that speed on the track.
And your original position was that the Honda made me FASTER ON THE
TRACK.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive
when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the
Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis?
YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
I never said it couldn't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent
basis, Liarboy.
I said it would COST more in money and time.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more
than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits
of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
are also totally blind to their disorder.
Right back at ya, ashole.
You misspelled asshole
You bought the Honda because you can't afford to maintain a Kent in
top racing form. It did make you faster.
Not because it was inherently faster, asshole. (did I spell it right for
you this time, Asshole?).
The guy who holds the fastest time at Mission in an FF had a Kent,
prepared by one of the two best FF Kent engine builders certainly in
North America and probably in the world (Arnie Loyning) that was prepped
by his brother-in-law's professional prep shop.
I was fast because I'm that good.
On 10/11/24 1:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 20:17, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago! >>>>>>>>>>>
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on >>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, >>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR >>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule >>>>>>>> infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the >>>>>>> when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won",
Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he >>>>>> moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the >>>>>> video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that >>>>>> the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race >>>>> I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That
is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another
driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the
provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver
out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had
he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a
provisional first.
Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they
were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If
the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and cost the
Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a
Honda-powered car, Liarboy.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a dozen
teams that get to the final rounds: it is as if you're trying to
claim that the baseball team that loses in the World Series must
"suck" because they didn't win in the final round. Sorry, but they
had to have beaten a lot of other teams before they got to the final
rounds. Point is that the mere presence of a Kent in the finals
indicates that the Formula organizers have done a good job in
balancing their index of performance.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive >>>>> when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the
Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? >>>>> YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make an
invalid claim: that a Kent requires higher maintenance explains why >>>> fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't just as good of
a performer on the track.
In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing
ones in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg
Honda) and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the
means means that there's a 90% probability that the winning car is
going to be red.
Same principle applies here: if Kents really are objectively
inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance'
doesn't apply and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the prior
elimination rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the finals.
OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
representation in the final playoff field should be similar to what
% of the total population of competitive cars are fielded, no matter
if that's 10%, 50% or 90%. Ditto for Honda.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more >>>>> than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits >>>>> of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
are also totally blind to their disorder.
Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when
examining factors within populations: why did you miss it so badly?
-hh
Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in the
runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior that
there are few left or if their are many they don't perform well
enough to make the Runoffs.
Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
Unsurprising that Tommy believed I was affirming him, not debunking him.
Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
If he did, it wasn't in anything STEM which required mathematics.
-hh
On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago! >>>>>>>>>>>
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on >>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, >>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR >>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule >>>>>>>> infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the >>>>>>> when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won",
Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he >>>>>> moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the >>>>>> video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that >>>>>> the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race >>>>> I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That
is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another
driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the
provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver
out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had
he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a
provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they
were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If
the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and cost the
Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a
Honda-powered car, Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive >>>>> when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the
Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? >>>>> YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more >>>>> than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits >>>>> of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
are also totally blind to their disorder.
Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
time presumably)...
...on October 5.
Just another example of your careful understanding of the situation,
hmmm?
<crickets.wav>
Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. The
cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all things
considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all things
considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there would be a
lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for years been
dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
...ON THE TRACK,
Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did not
even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted you
never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case of
cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do you
understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the rules
he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF engine
choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda?
Interesting question, no?
What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was faster...
...ON THE TRACK.
In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show up
at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up this
year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the Kent? Why
not just one class?
And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
Because it is absolutely not true:
'FORMULA
The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars. They
are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and engine displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in each class.
The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula Continental® (FC),
Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500 (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
<https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a professional series for Formula F cars.
But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since there
was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the 1,600cc Kent
engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
research, don't you?
In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
restricted to Kent engines.
https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/october/ formula-ford-festival
Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are they
afraid of?
They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't interested
in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine builder
(Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small enough that it would fit in
the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent even after adding an
adapter plate between the engine and bellhousing (otherwise the bolt
holes on each wouldn't line up). Then the carefully programmed an ECU
and included a restrictor in what would otherwise have been a 50mm
throttle body, and after starting with too small a size, adjusted it
upward until they landed on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda
with the Kent.
In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec engine
in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine for 2006.
But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the two,
but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the Duratec,
while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for some of those years.
And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world, are you?
On 10/11/2024 7:38 AM, -hh wrote:
On 10/11/24 1:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 20:17, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago! >>>>>>>>>>>>
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on >>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, >>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR >>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far. >>>>>>>>>>
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule >>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. >>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" >>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have
won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have >>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he >>>>>>> moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the >>>>>>> video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that >>>>>>> the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way >>>>>>> that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of >>>>>>> the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. >>>>>> That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another >>>>>> driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the
provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver >>>>>> out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had >>>>>> he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a
provisional first.
Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they >>>>>> were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If
the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and cost the
Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda- >>>>>> powered car, Liarboy.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a dozen
teams that get to the final rounds: it is as if you're trying to
claim that the baseball team that loses in the World Series must
"suck" because they didn't win in the final round. Sorry, but they >>>>> had to have beaten a lot of other teams before they got to the
final rounds. Point is that the mere presence of a Kent in the
finals indicates that the Formula organizers have done a good job
in balancing their index of performance.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce >>>>>> in the Runoffs.
No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make an
invalid claim: that a Kent requires higher maintenance explains
why fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't just as
good of a performer on the track.
In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing
ones in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg
Honda) and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the
means means that there's a 90% probability that the winning car is
going to be red.
Same principle applies here: if Kents really are objectively
inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance'
doesn't apply and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the
prior elimination rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the
finals.
OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
representation in the final playoff field should be similar to what >>>>> % of the total population of competitive cars are fielded, no
matter if that's 10%, 50% or 90%. Ditto for Honda.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major >>>>>> traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of
the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being
wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is right.
Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when
examining factors within populations: why did you miss it so badly? >>>>>
-hh
Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in
the runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior that
there are few left or if their are many they don't perform well
enough to make the Runoffs.
Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
Unsurprising that Tommy believed I was affirming him, not debunking him.
Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
If he did, it wasn't in anything STEM which required mathematics.
-hh
HH, I do know math and stats. The fact that there are so few Kent cars
that make the Runoffs and that in general they finish poorly says they
are not competitive at this level. There are statistical outliers in the last 2 years. Results:
2024 - 1 car finished 8th, 13 cars running
2023 - 1 Kent (won the race), 8 cars running
2022 - 2 Kents finished 3rd and 12th, 13 cars running
2021 - 4 Kents finished 16th, 18th, 19th and 21st, 22 cars running
2020 - 3 Kents finished 11th, 12th and 14th, 14 cars running
2019 - 4 Kents finished 3rd, 9th and 13th, 14 cars running
2018 - 3 Kents finished 14th, 17th, and 22nd, 22 cars running
2017 - 9 Kents finished 10th, 20th, 23rd. The other 6 were DNF, 26 of 36 cars were running at the finish
Why so few Kents? Two possible explanations:
1. There are few Kents relative to Hondas in the population, or
2. The population of Kents is sufficient to support more entries, but
few can qualify.
If there are few Kents in the population or the Kents are not good
enough to qualify does not matter. In any event, Kent participation and results says the engine is not competitive at this level. But the outliers?
Why the outliers? As Alan has stated, if you spend enough money and
effort tuning the Kent it can run with the de-rated Hondas. But that
makes those owners that do spend lavishly unrepresentative of the
general Kent owner population. Which is why we see the typical Kent
finishs well off the podium.
I stand corrected on a statement I made about the SCCA F1600 race
series. Honda engines are allowed. Actually the Honda dominates.
Established in 2011, a Kent won the first year title. The 2012-2023
winners all drove Honda-powered cars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1600_Championship_SeriesHondas offer advantages ASIDE from speed ON THE TRACK.
If you look at the series' track records they are dominated by Honda- powered cars.
https://www.racefrp.com/track-records
Now, explain all that please.
On 10/11/2024 1:58 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 20:20, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 8:31 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago! >>>>>>>>>>>
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on >>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, >>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR >>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far.
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule >>>>>>>> infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating.
You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" the >>>>>>> when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have won",
Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have
been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he >>>>>> moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the >>>>>> video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that >>>>>> the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way
that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of
the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
Nope. When I wrote it, I didn't know about the SCCA's decision.
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one race >>>>> I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. That
is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another
driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the
provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver
out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had
he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a
provisional first.
And where have I said the penalty wasn't appropriate, Liarboy?
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they
were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If
the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and cost the
Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda-
powered car, Liarboy.
And the only reason you now hold that position is that, /I/ had to
explain that there is more to racing that speed on the track.
And your original position was that the Honda made me FASTER ON THE
TRACK.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not competitive >>>>> when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the money on the
Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent basis? >>>>> YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce in the Runoffs.
I never said it couldn't go out and beat the Honda on a consistent
basis, Liarboy.
I said it would COST more in money and time.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are more >>>>> than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major traits >>>>> of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of the
narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being wrong, or
that the other person who disagrees with you is right. Such people
are also totally blind to their disorder.
Right back at ya, ashole.
You misspelled asshole
You bought the Honda because you can't afford to maintain a Kent in
top racing form. It did make you faster.
Not because it was inherently faster, asshole. (did I spell it right
for you this time, Asshole?).
The guy who holds the fastest time at Mission in an FF had a Kent,
prepared by one of the two best FF Kent engine builders certainly in
North America and probably in the world (Arnie Loyning) that was
prepped by his brother-in-law's professional prep shop.
I was fast because I'm that good.
LOL! How many Honda cars have competed at Mission? And, you make my
point. It takes extensive and expensive prep for the Kent to even come
close to the Honda. Anything less is not competitive. You were faster driving a Honda-powered car. I proved that some time back.
So answer my question. What are Honda engines not welcome at F1600 and
the Brands Hatch events while SCCA welcomes the Kent at the Runoffs?
On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552.
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago! >>>>>>>>>>>>
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on >>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, >>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR >>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far. >>>>>>>>>>
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule >>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. >>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" >>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have
won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have >>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that he >>>>>>> moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen the >>>>>>> video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been that >>>>>>> the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no way >>>>>>> that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last lap of >>>>>>> the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. >>>>>> That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking another >>>>>> driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first in the
provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the other driver >>>>>> out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately penalized. Had >>>>>> he followed the rules he very likely would not have even won a
provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have
been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If they >>>>>> were competitive on performance and cost there would be more. If
the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and cost the
Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you bought a Honda- >>>>>> powered car, Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the
money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so scarce >>>>>> in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major >>>>>> traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of
the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being
wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is right.
Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin
time presumably)...
...on October 5.
Just another example of your careful understanding of the
situation, hmmm?
<crickets.wav>
Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. The
cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all things
considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all things
considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there would be
a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for years been
dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when
you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
...ON THE TRACK,
Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did not
even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted you
never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case of
cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do you
understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the rules
he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda?
Interesting question, no?
What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was faster...
...ON THE TRACK.
In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show
up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up
this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the
Kent? Why not just one class?
And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
Because it is absolutely not true:
'FORMULA
The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars.
They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and engine
displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in each
class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula
Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500
(F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
<https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a professional
series for Formula F cars.
But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since there
was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the 1,600cc Kent
engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
research, don't you?
In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
october/ formula-ford-festival
Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
they afraid of?
They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks for
building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of
the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small enough
that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent
even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and bellhousing
(otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up). Then the
carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in what would
otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after starting with too
small a size, adjusted it upward until they landed on a 30.5mm
restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines
earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec
engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine
for 2006.
But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the two,
but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the Duratec,
while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for some of
those years.
And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between
the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world, are
you?
Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having won every season championship since 2012.
On 2024-10-15 08:05, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/11/2024 7:38 AM, -hh wrote:
On 10/11/24 1:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 20:17, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago! >>>>>>>>>>>>>
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on >>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, >>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR >>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far. >>>>>>>>>>>
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule >>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. >>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" >>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have >>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have >>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that >>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen >>>>>>>> the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been >>>>>>>> that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no >>>>>>>> way that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last >>>>>>>> lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. >>>>>>> That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking
another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first >>>>>>> in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the
other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately >>>>>>> penalized. Had he followed the rules he very likely would not
have even won a provisional first.
Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have >>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and >>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a dozen >>>>>> teams that get to the final rounds: it is as if you're trying to >>>>>> claim that the baseball team that loses in the World Series must
"suck" because they didn't win in the final round. Sorry, but
they had to have beaten a lot of other teams before they got to
the final rounds. Point is that the mere presence of a Kent in
the finals indicates that the Formula organizers have done a good >>>>>> job in balancing their index of performance.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the >>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
scarce in the Runoffs.
No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make an >>>>>> invalid claim: that a Kent requires higher maintenance explains >>>>>> why fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't just as
good of a performer on the track.
In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing
ones in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg >>>>>> Honda) and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the
means means that there's a 90% probability that the winning car is >>>>>> going to be red.
Same principle applies here: if Kents really are objectively
inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance'
doesn't apply and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the
prior elimination rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the >>>>>> finals.
OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
representation in the final playoff field should be similar to
what % of the total population of competitive cars are fielded, no >>>>>> matter if that's 10%, 50% or 90%. Ditto for Honda.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major >>>>>>> traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of >>>>>>> the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being
wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is right. >>>>>>> Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when
examining factors within populations: why did you miss it so badly? >>>>>>
-hh
Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in
the runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior
that there are few left or if their are many they don't perform
well enough to make the Runoffs.
Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
Unsurprising that Tommy believed I was affirming him, not debunking him. >>>
Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
If he did, it wasn't in anything STEM which required mathematics.
-hh
HH, I do know math and stats. The fact that there are so few Kent cars
that make the Runoffs and that in general they finish poorly says they
are not competitive at this level. There are statistical outliers in
the last 2 years. Results:
You're assuming that correlation is causation, Liarboy.
2024 - 1 car finished 8th, 13 cars running
2023 - 1 Kent (won the race), 8 cars running
2022 - 2 Kents finished 3rd and 12th, 13 cars running
2021 - 4 Kents finished 16th, 18th, 19th and 21st, 22 cars running
2020 - 3 Kents finished 11th, 12th and 14th, 14 cars running
2019 - 4 Kents finished 3rd, 9th and 13th, 14 cars running
2018 - 3 Kents finished 14th, 17th, and 22nd, 22 cars running
2017 - 9 Kents finished 10th, 20th, 23rd. The other 6 were DNF, 26 of
36 cars were running at the finish
Why so few Kents? Two possible explanations:
1. There are few Kents relative to Hondas in the population, or
2. The population of Kents is sufficient to support more entries, but
few can qualify.
3. The kinds of people who GO to the Runoffs can afford to convert to
Honda.
If there are few Kents in the population or the Kents are not good
enough to qualify does not matter. In any event, Kent participation
and results says the engine is not competitive at this level. But the
outliers?
Why the outliers? As Alan has stated, if you spend enough money and
effort tuning the Kent it can run with the de-rated Hondas. But that
makes those owners that do spend lavishly unrepresentative of the
general Kent owner population. Which is why we see the typical Kent
finishs well off the podium.
I stand corrected on a statement I made about the SCCA F1600 race
series. Honda engines are allowed. Actually the Honda dominates.
Established in 2011, a Kent won the first year title. The 2012-2023
winners all drove Honda-powered cars.
Look at that:
Opening your yap when you lacked anything resembling a clue...
...again.
Hondas offer advantages ASIDE from speed ON THE TRACK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1600_Championship_Series
If you look at the series' track records they are dominated by Honda-
powered cars.
https://www.racefrp.com/track-records
Now, explain all that please.
I stand corrected on a statement I made about the SCCA F1600 race
series. Honda engines are allowed. Actually the Honda dominates.
Established in 2011, a Kent won the first year title. The 2012-2023
winners all drove Honda-powered cars.
Look at that:
Opening your yap when you lacked anything resembling a clue...
...again.
Hondas offer advantages ASIDE from speed ON THE TRACK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1600_Championship_Series
If you look at the series' track records they are dominated by Honda-
powered cars.
https://www.racefrp.com/track-records
Now, explain all that please.
Precisely. To summarily oversimplify, Honda has a *logistical* advantage
off the track, not -- as Tommy has claimed -- an advantage on track.
On 2024-10-15 08:05, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/11/2024 7:38 AM, -hh wrote:
On 10/11/24 1:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 20:17, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago! >>>>>>>>>>>>>
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on >>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, >>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR >>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far. >>>>>>>>>>>
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule >>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. >>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" >>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have >>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have >>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that >>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen >>>>>>>> the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been >>>>>>>> that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no >>>>>>>> way that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last >>>>>>>> lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. >>>>>>> That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking
another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first >>>>>>> in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the
other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately >>>>>>> penalized. Had he followed the rules he very likely would not
have even won a provisional first.
Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have >>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and >>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a dozen >>>>>> teams that get to the final rounds: it is as if you're trying to >>>>>> claim that the baseball team that loses in the World Series must
"suck" because they didn't win in the final round. Sorry, but
they had to have beaten a lot of other teams before they got to
the final rounds. Point is that the mere presence of a Kent in
the finals indicates that the Formula organizers have done a good >>>>>> job in balancing their index of performance.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the >>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
scarce in the Runoffs.
No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make an >>>>>> invalid claim: that a Kent requires higher maintenance explains >>>>>> why fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't just as
good of a performer on the track.
In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing
ones in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg >>>>>> Honda) and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the
means means that there's a 90% probability that the winning car is >>>>>> going to be red.
Same principle applies here: if Kents really are objectively
inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance'
doesn't apply and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the
prior elimination rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the >>>>>> finals.
OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
representation in the final playoff field should be similar to
what % of the total population of competitive cars are fielded, no >>>>>> matter if that's 10%, 50% or 90%. Ditto for Honda.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major >>>>>>> traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of >>>>>>> the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being
wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is right. >>>>>>> Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when
examining factors within populations: why did you miss it so badly? >>>>>>
-hh
Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in
the runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior
that there are few left or if their are many they don't perform
well enough to make the Runoffs.
Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
Unsurprising that Tommy believed I was affirming him, not debunking him. >>>
Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
If he did, it wasn't in anything STEM which required mathematics.
-hh
HH, I do know math and stats. The fact that there are so few Kent cars
that make the Runoffs and that in general they finish poorly says they
are not competitive at this level. There are statistical outliers in
the last 2 years. Results:
You're assuming that correlation is causation, Liarboy.
2024 - 1 car finished 8th, 13 cars running
2023 - 1 Kent (won the race), 8 cars running
2022 - 2 Kents finished 3rd and 12th, 13 cars running
2021 - 4 Kents finished 16th, 18th, 19th and 21st, 22 cars running
2020 - 3 Kents finished 11th, 12th and 14th, 14 cars running
2019 - 4 Kents finished 3rd, 9th and 13th, 14 cars running
2018 - 3 Kents finished 14th, 17th, and 22nd, 22 cars running
2017 - 9 Kents finished 10th, 20th, 23rd. The other 6 were DNF, 26 of
36 cars were running at the finish
Why so few Kents? Two possible explanations:
1. There are few Kents relative to Hondas in the population, or
2. The population of Kents is sufficient to support more entries, but
few can qualify.
3. The kinds of people who GO to the Runoffs can afford to convert to
Honda.
If there are few Kents in the population or the Kents are not good
enough to qualify does not matter. In any event, Kent participation
and results says the engine is not competitive at this level. But the
outliers?
Why the outliers? As Alan has stated, if you spend enough money and
effort tuning the Kent it can run with the de-rated Hondas. But that
makes those owners that do spend lavishly unrepresentative of the
general Kent owner population. Which is why we see the typical Kent
finishs well off the podium.
I stand corrected on a statement I made about the SCCA F1600 race
series. Honda engines are allowed. Actually the Honda dominates.
Established in 2011, a Kent won the first year title. The 2012-2023
winners all drove Honda-powered cars.
Look at that:
Opening your yap when you lacked anything resembling a clue...
...again.
Hondas offer advantages ASIDE from speed ON THE TRACK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1600_Championship_Series
If you look at the series' track records they are dominated by Honda-
powered cars.
https://www.racefrp.com/track-records
Now, explain all that please.
On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago! >>>>>>>>>>>>>
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on >>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, >>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR >>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far. >>>>>>>>>>>
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule >>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. >>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" >>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have >>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have >>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that >>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having seen >>>>>>>> the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has always been >>>>>>>> that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda and there's no >>>>>>>> way that can be true if a Ford can be in the lead on the last >>>>>>>> lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one
race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the race. >>>>>>> That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking
another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed first >>>>>>> in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated the
other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was appropriately >>>>>>> penalized. Had he followed the rules he very likely would not
have even won a provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have >>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If
they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and >>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more
profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the >>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a
consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are
more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. Major >>>>>>> traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another trait of >>>>>>> the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit being
wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is right. >>>>>>> Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin >>>>>> time presumably)...
...on October 5.
Just another example of your careful understanding of the
situation, hmmm?
<crickets.wav>
Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. The
cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all
things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all
things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there
would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for
years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when
you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
...ON THE TRACK,
Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did not
even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted you
never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case of
cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do you
understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the
rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda?
Interesting question, no?
What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was faster... >>>
...ON THE TRACK.
In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent
engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show
up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up
this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the
Kent? Why not just one class?
And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
Because it is absolutely not true:
'FORMULA
The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars.
They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and engine
displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in each
class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula
Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500
(F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
<https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
professional series for Formula F cars.
But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
research, don't you?
In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
october/ formula-ford-festival
Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
they afraid of?
They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks
for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of
the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small enough
that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent
even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and bellhousing
(otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up). Then the
carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in what would
otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after starting with too
small a size, adjusted it upward until they landed on a 30.5mm
restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines
earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec
engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine
for 2006.
But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the two,
but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine.
So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the Duratec,
while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for some of
those years.
And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between
the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world,
are you?
Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having
won every season championship since 2012.
I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.
On 10/15/2024 12:21 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-15 08:05, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/11/2024 7:38 AM, -hh wrote:
On 10/11/24 1:59 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 20:17, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 5:14 PM, -hh wrote:
On 10/10/24 4:30 PM, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, >>>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR >>>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far. >>>>>>>>>>>>
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule >>>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. >>>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" >>>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have >>>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have >>>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that >>>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having >>>>>>>>> seen the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has
always been that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda >>>>>>>>> and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can be in the >>>>>>>>> lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one >>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the
race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking >>>>>>>> another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed
first in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated >>>>>>>> the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was
appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very
likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Such rule infractions often have a big old dose of grey.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have >>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If >>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and >>>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if its one team or a
dozen teams that get to the final rounds: it is as if you're
trying to claim that the baseball team that loses in the World
Series must "suck" because they didn't win in the final round. >>>>>>> Sorry, but they had to have beaten a lot of other teams before
they got to the final rounds. Point is that the mere presence of >>>>>>> a Kent in the finals indicates that the Formula organizers have >>>>>>> done a good job in balancing their index of performance.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the >>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a >>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
scarce in the Runoffs.
No, that's trying to incorrectly use a statistical bias to make >>>>>>> an invalid claim: that a Kent requires higher maintenance
explains why fewer teams run that combination, not that it isn't >>>>>>> just as good of a performer on the track.
In a competitive field which has weeded out the lower performing >>>>>>> ones in qualifying rounds, if 90% of the teams have a red car (eg >>>>>>> Honda) and the outcome is purely random chance, reversion to the >>>>>>> means means that there's a 90% probability that the winning car >>>>>>> is going to be red.
Same principle applies here: if Kents really are objectively
inferior performers on the track, then the above 'random chance' >>>>>>> doesn't apply and they wouldn't have placed high enough in the
prior elimination rounds to even appear as 5% of the field in the >>>>>>> finals.
OTOH, when they are objectively even on the track, then their
representation in the final playoff field should be similar to
what % of the total population of competitive cars are fielded, >>>>>>> no matter if that's 10%, 50% or 90%. Ditto for Honda.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are >>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good.
Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another
trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit >>>>>>>> being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is >>>>>>>> right. Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
Speaking of disorders, the above is pretty basic statistics when >>>>>>> examining factors within populations: why did you miss it so badly? >>>>>>>
-hh
Thanks for validating all my arguments. There are so few Kents in >>>>>> the runoffs because the Kent-powered car are either so inferior
that there are few left or if their are many they don't perform
well enough to make the Runoffs.
Way to misunderstand every argument he made, Asshole.
Unsurprising that Tommy believed I was affirming him, not debunking
him.
Are you sure you have a Ph.D.?
If he did, it wasn't in anything STEM which required mathematics.
-hh
HH, I do know math and stats. The fact that there are so few Kent
cars that make the Runoffs and that in general they finish poorly
says they are not competitive at this level. There are statistical
outliers in the last 2 years. Results:
You're assuming that correlation is causation, Liarboy.
2024 - 1 car finished 8th, 13 cars running
2023 - 1 Kent (won the race), 8 cars running
2022 - 2 Kents finished 3rd and 12th, 13 cars running
2021 - 4 Kents finished 16th, 18th, 19th and 21st, 22 cars running
2020 - 3 Kents finished 11th, 12th and 14th, 14 cars running
2019 - 4 Kents finished 3rd, 9th and 13th, 14 cars running
2018 - 3 Kents finished 14th, 17th, and 22nd, 22 cars running
2017 - 9 Kents finished 10th, 20th, 23rd. The other 6 were DNF, 26 of
36 cars were running at the finish
Why so few Kents? Two possible explanations:
1. There are few Kents relative to Hondas in the population, or
2. The population of Kents is sufficient to support more entries, but
few can qualify.
3. The kinds of people who GO to the Runoffs can afford to convert to
Honda.
If there are few Kents in the population or the Kents are not good
enough to qualify does not matter. In any event, Kent participation
and results says the engine is not competitive at this level. But the
outliers?
Why the outliers? As Alan has stated, if you spend enough money and
effort tuning the Kent it can run with the de-rated Hondas. But that
makes those owners that do spend lavishly unrepresentative of the
general Kent owner population. Which is why we see the typical Kent
finishs well off the podium.
I stand corrected on a statement I made about the SCCA F1600 race
series. Honda engines are allowed. Actually the Honda dominates.
Established in 2011, a Kent won the first year title. The 2012-2023
winners all drove Honda-powered cars.
Look at that:
Opening your yap when you lacked anything resembling a clue...
...again.
Hondas offer advantages ASIDE from speed ON THE TRACK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1600_Championship_Series
If you look at the series' track records they are dominated by Honda-
powered cars.
https://www.racefrp.com/track-records
Now, explain all that please.
Alan, you have stated that to be competitive with a Kent engine requires
an expert engine builder/tuner and that is expensive. Now you are saying
the Honda, which you bought because it requires LESS maintenance, is
more expensive.
On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at 2:22.733. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F.
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official results, >>>>>>>>>>>> 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - GCR >>>>>>>>>>>> 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far. >>>>>>>>>>>>
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the rule >>>>>>>>>>> infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is cheating. >>>>>>>>>> You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F" >>>>>>>>>> the when confronted with the truth changed it to "could have >>>>>>>>>> won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could have >>>>>>>>> been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled that >>>>>>>>> he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and having >>>>>>>>> seen the video, that's certainly true. But your claim has
always been that the Ford can't be competitive with the Honda >>>>>>>>> and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can be in the >>>>>>>>> lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one >>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the
race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively blocking >>>>>>>> another driver. Had he not done so he might have not placed
first in the provisional standings. In other words, he cheated >>>>>>>> the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was
appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very
likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have >>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If >>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be
more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance and >>>>>>>> cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you
bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the >>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a >>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so
scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are >>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good.
Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another
trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit >>>>>>>> being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is >>>>>>>> right. Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00 (Wisconsin >>>>>>> time presumably)...
...on October 5.
Just another example of your careful understanding of the
situation, hmmm?
<crickets.wav>
Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect.
The cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all
things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all
things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there
would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for
years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when
you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
...ON THE TRACK,
Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did
not even wait for the official results. Then after they were posted >>>>> you never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was a case
of cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to pass. Do
you understand that the fact that he had to do that meant under the >>>>> rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were faster?
I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the Honda? >>>>> Interesting question, no?
What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was
faster...
...ON THE TRACK.
In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the Kent >>>>> engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do they show >>>>> up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did any show up
this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class limited to the
Kent? Why not just one class?
And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
Because it is absolutely not true:
'FORMULA
The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars.
They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and
engine displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in
each class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula
Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500
(F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
<https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race series
called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
professional series for Formula F cars.
But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
research, don't you?
In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is
restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
october/ formula-ford-festival
Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are
they afraid of?
They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks
for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place of
the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small enough
that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for the Kent
even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and
bellhousing (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up).
Then the carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in
what would otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after
starting with too small a size, adjusted it upward until they landed
on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent engines
earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's Zetec
engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec engine
for 2006.
But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the
two, but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine. >>>>
So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival was
using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the
Duratec, while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for
some of those years.
And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately.
But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between
the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world,
are you?
Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having
won every season championship since 2012.
I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.
What BS? The Brands Hatch FF event I refer to is Kent Ford engines only.
Why not run against the Honda?
On 2024-10-24 15:38, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years ago! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official >>>>>>>>>>>>> results, 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - >>>>>>>>>>>>> GCR 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the >>>>>>>>>>>> rule infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is
cheating. You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in >>>>>>>>>>> Formula F" the when confronted with the truth changed it to >>>>>>>>>>> "could have won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could >>>>>>>>>> have been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA ruled >>>>>>>>>> that he moved to aggressively to defend his position, and >>>>>>>>>> having seen the video, that's certainly true. But your claim >>>>>>>>>> has always been that the Ford can't be competitive with the >>>>>>>>>> Honda and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can be in >>>>>>>>>> the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one >>>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the >>>>>>>>> race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively
blocking another driver. Had he not done so he might have not >>>>>>>>> placed first in the provisional standings. In other words, he >>>>>>>>> cheated the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was >>>>>>>>> appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very
likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There have >>>>>>>>> been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many years. If >>>>>>>>> they were competitive on performance and cost there would be >>>>>>>>> more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on performance >>>>>>>>> and cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. After all you >>>>>>>>> bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money >>>>>>>>> spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend the >>>>>>>>> money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda on a >>>>>>>>> consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is so >>>>>>>>> scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are >>>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. >>>>>>>>> Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another >>>>>>>>> trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never admit >>>>>>>>> being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with you is >>>>>>>>> right. Such people are also totally blind to their disorder.
Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00
(Wisconsin time presumably)...
...on October 5.
Just another example of your careful understanding of the
situation, hmmm?
<crickets.wav>
Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire
species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect.
The cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that all >>>>>> things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, all
things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, there >>>>>> would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market has for >>>>>> years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you when >>>>> you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
...ON THE TRACK,
Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did
not even wait for the official results. Then after they were
posted you never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it was >>>>>> a case of cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars to
pass. Do you understand that the fact that he had to do that meant >>>>>> under the rules he illegally placed first? Or that other cars were >>>>>> faster?
I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF
engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the
Honda? Interesting question, no?
What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was
faster...
...ON THE TRACK.
In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the
Kent engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do
they show up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did
any show up this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class
limited to the Kent? Why not just one class?
And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
Because it is absolutely not true:
'FORMULA
The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel racecars. >>>>> They are built to detailed specifications for weight, size and
engine displacement. There are incredible power to weight ratios in >>>>> each class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest are: Formula >>>>> Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA® (FE), Formula
Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F (FF), Formula 500 >>>>> (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
<https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race
series called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
professional series for Formula F cars.
But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's
amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
research, don't you?
In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival is >>>>>> restricted to Kent engines. https://www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/
october/ formula-ford-festival
Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are >>>>>> they afraid of?
They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks
for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine
builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place
of the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small
enough that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for
the Kent even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and
bellhousing (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up).
Then the carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in
what would otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after
starting with too small a size, adjusted it upward until they
landed on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent.
In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent
engines earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using Ford's >>>>> Zetec engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford Duratec
engine for 2006.
But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the
two, but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda engine. >>>>>
So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival
was using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the
Duratec, while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for
some of those years.
And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately. >>>>>
But you aren't even really aware that there are differences between >>>>> the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of the world,
are you?
Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does not
allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600, having
won every season championship since 2012.
I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.
What BS? The Brands Hatch FF event I refer to is Kent Ford engines only.
Why not run against the Honda?
Because, you incredible ignoramus, the Honda was never added to the
class in England.
On 10/25/2024 4:30 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-24 15:38, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/15/2024 12:23 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-15 08:09, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/12/2024 11:46 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-12 04:36, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/11/2024 2:17 AM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 17:46, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 13:30, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/10/2024 12:44 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-10 03:25, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/9/2024 11:13 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-09 19:28, Tom Elam wrote:
On 10/4/2024 7:20 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2024-10-02 11:29, Alan wrote:
...ON THE TRACK:
At the SCCA National Runoffs this year at Road America >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in Wisconsin:
Fastest qualifier so far IS an FF Honda at 2:22.552. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
But second fastest is a FF Ford just .181 behind at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2:22.733.
<https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> downloads/000/073/365/
FF%20Runoffs2024%20Qual%202%20Provisional.pdf> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And that's not even remotely a new Formula F chassis! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Swift DB6 chassis dates from 1991...that's 43 years >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ago!
So why is the field mostly Hondas?
Because (as I've explained before) time and money spent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on more profitable things.
And, gee, what do you know?
The "uncompetitive" Kent...
...won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Who'd have thought it?
:-)
Really?
https://cdn.connectsites.net/user_files/scca/
downloads/000/073/541/ FF%20Runoffs2024%20Race%20Official.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The # 5 car, the Kent, finished 8th in the official >>>>>>>>>>>>>> results, 1st in Provisional Results
Position changed per: Car 5 - Moved behind #81 per SOM - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> GCR 6.11.1.D,
Appendix P.5. Must have cheated to get moved down that far. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And the 5 car was the only Kent in the race.
What's extra hilarious is that they literally listed the >>>>>>>>>>>>> rule infraction involved...
...but you just went with, "must have cheated".
It was a passing infraction, I looked it up. That is
cheating. You said he "won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in >>>>>>>>>>>> Formula F" the when confronted with the truth changed it to >>>>>>>>>>>> "could have won", Liarboy. So typical of you.
Your implication was clearly that the only reason he could >>>>>>>>>>> have been leading the race was that he cheated. The SCCA >>>>>>>>>>> ruled that he moved to aggressively to defend his position, >>>>>>>>>>> and having seen the video, that's certainly true. But your >>>>>>>>>>> claim has always been that the Ford can't be competitive with >>>>>>>>>>> the Honda and there's no way that can be true if a Ford can >>>>>>>>>>> be in the lead on the last lap of the race.
And never said "could have won" anywhere, Liarboy.
You flat out lied when you said "The "uncompetitive" Kent
won the 2024 SCCA National Runoffs in Formula F"
If you had said that a single Kent was competitive in this one >>>>>>>>>> race I would have agreed. But no, you said the Kent WON the >>>>>>>>>> race. That is not true. He broke a rule by aggressively
blocking another driver. Had he not done so he might have not >>>>>>>>>> placed first in the provisional standings. In other words, he >>>>>>>>>> cheated the other driver out of an opportunity to pass and was >>>>>>>>>> appropriately penalized. Had he followed the rules he very >>>>>>>>>> likely would not have even won a provisional first.
Now, in a larger sense, is the Kent competitive? No. There >>>>>>>>>> have been VERY few Kents entered in the Runoffs for many
years. If they were competitive on performance and cost there >>>>>>>>>> would be more. If the Kent was a better engine overall on >>>>>>>>>> performance and cost the Kent would dominate. Even you agree. >>>>>>>>>> After all you bought a Honda- powered car, Liarboy.
You stated "Because (as I've explained before) time and money >>>>>>>>>> spent
maintaining a Formula F Kent in top shape can be spent on more >>>>>>>>>> profitable things." You admit here that the Kent is not
competitive when considering the overall metrics. Why spend >>>>>>>>>> the money on the Kent when it can't go out and beat the Honda >>>>>>>>>> on a consistent basis? YOU said that. THAT is why the Kent is >>>>>>>>>> so scarce in the Runoffs.
In an even larger sense you show in this instance that you are >>>>>>>>>> more than willing to bend facts to make yourself look good. >>>>>>>>>> Major traits of a narcissistic hypocrite. Of course, another >>>>>>>>>> trait of the narcissistic hypocrite is that you can never >>>>>>>>>> admit being wrong, or that the other person who disagrees with >>>>>>>>>> you is right. Such people are also totally blind to their >>>>>>>>>> disorder.
Just for absolute clarity, Liarboy:
I posted about the Runoffs win at 16:20PDT on October 4...
...and the official results weren't posted until 17:00
(Wisconsin time presumably)...
...on October 5.
Just another example of your careful understanding of the
situation, hmmm?
<crickets.wav>
Competition weeds out the weak - individuals, companies, entire >>>>>>> species, and race car engines. HH has confused cause and effect. >>>>>>> The cause of so few Kents at this level of competition is that
all things considered they are not competitive. If the Kent is, >>>>>>> all things considered, a more competitive engine than the Honda, >>>>>>> there would be a lot more entered. The Runoffs FF engine market >>>>>>> has for years been dominated by Honda. Prove me wrong.
I don't HAVE to "prove" you wrong, you mendacious asshole.
You are literally parroting back to me what I explained to you
when you tried to claim that using a Honda made the car faster...
...ON THE TRACK,
Alan, you were in such a rush to brag about that outcome you did >>>>>>> not even wait for the official results. Then after they were
posted you never corrected your post. Liar either way. Yes, it
was a case of cheating. That driver was not allowing faster cars >>>>>>> to pass. Do you understand that the fact that he had to do that >>>>>>> meant under the rules he illegally placed first? Or that other
cars were faster?
I only just discovered the the fact a couple of days ago.
I never claimed that a Kent can't win a race. I'm looking at FF >>>>>>> engine choices. Can the Kent compete straight-up against the
Honda? Interesting question, no?
What you claimed (and I have the receipts) is that a Honda was
faster...
...ON THE TRACK.
In fact, in 2011 SCCA established Formula 1600, limited to the
Kent engine cars. These cars are eligible for FF races too. Do
they show up at Runoffs? Yes. Likely only the best do that. Did >>>>>>> any show up this year? Just one. So why do we now have a class
limited to the Kent? Why not just one class?
And where did you pull this revelation from, Liarboy?
Because it is absolutely not true:
'FORMULA
The eight formula classes are all single-seat, open wheel
racecars. They are built to detailed specifications for weight,
size and engine displacement. There are incredible power to weight >>>>>> ratios in each class. The classes in order of fastest to slowest
are: Formula Atlantic® (FA), Formula 1000 (FB), Formula SCCA®
(FE), Formula Continental® (FC), Formula Mazda (FM), Formula F
(FF), Formula 500 (F500) and Formula Vee® (FV).'
<https://www.scca.com/pages/car-classifications-and-groups>
There is no SCCA class called "Formula 1600". There IS a race
series called "F1600" which was created by the SCCA in 2011 as a
professional series for Formula F cars.
But the cars are run under precisely the same rules as the SCCA's >>>>>> amateur series. Including the legality of the Honda.
My guess is that you saw the same, and simply assumed that since
there was "1600" in the name, it must obviously have meant the
1,600cc Kent engine and not the 1,500cc Honda.
For a Ph.D., you really seem to lack the ability to do diligent
research, don't you?
In fact, over in England the Brands Hatch Formula Ford Festival >>>>>>> is restricted to Kent engines. https://
www.brandshatch.co.uk/2024/ october/ formula-ford-festival
Why is that? Why not allow Honda engines to compete too? What are >>>>>>> they afraid of?
They simply went a different way, Liarboy.
In the US, there was a problem because the number of engine blocks >>>>>> for building Kent engines was drying up. And because Ford wasn't
interested in doing anything to alleviate the situation, an engine >>>>>> builder (Quicksilver in Maryland) came up with a solution to the
problem. They adapted the Honda Fit 1500cc engine to use in place >>>>>> of the Kent, because (most importantly) it was physically small
enough that it would fit in the engine bays of most cars built for >>>>>> the Kent even after adding an adapter plate between the engine and >>>>>> bellhousing (otherwise the bolt holes on each wouldn't line up).
Then the carefully programmed an ECU and included a restrictor in >>>>>> what would otherwise have been a 50mm throttle body, and after
starting with too small a size, adjusted it upward until they
landed on a 30.5mm restrictor to equalize the Honda with the Kent. >>>>>>
In the UK, they addressed the issue of the drying up of Kent
engines earlier, and created a version of Formula Ford using
Ford's Zetec engine in 1993, and then later switching to the Ford >>>>>> Duratec engine for 2006.
But there was no attempt made to equalize the performance of the
two, but also no need for them to build a version with a Honda
engine.
So for the years 1993 to 2005, the overall Formula Ford Festival
was using a Zetec engine, and from 2006 to 2012 it was using the
Duratec, while they award a separate for the Kent-powered cars for >>>>>> some of those years.
And in years 2009 to 2012, they awarded all three engines separately. >>>>>>
But you aren't even really aware that there are differences
between the classes called "Formula Ford" in different parts of
the world, are you?
Yes, I am aware. I stand corrected when I stated that F1600 does
not allow the Honda engine. Do I ever! The Honda dominates F1600,
having won every season championship since 2012.
I notice that you don't acknowledge your bullshit about FF in the UK.
What BS? The Brands Hatch FF event I refer to is Kent Ford engines only. >>>
Why not run against the Honda?
Because, you incredible ignoramus, the Honda was never added to the
class in England.
Of course not, it would dominate just like it has in the U.S.!
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