From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

Anyone ever seen one of these in the wild?

https://web.archive.org/web/19971027020324/http://www.ald.com/ald/mca.html
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

No.

Required Instrument: HP165x, 166x, 167x, or 165xx family of logic analyzers

Bus signals supported: All MCA ™ - 32 bit slot signals except slot
specific signals (e.g. -CD-SETUP) and audio.

Part Number
ALD-1M for HP1650, 52, 16510, 511, 540
[ HP P/N ALO60003 ]
ALD-2M for HP1660, 62, 16550, 555, & later
[ HP P/N ALO60004 ]

Note that there is an HP P/N. There is no chance that HPE has anything
on this.


Kevin Bowling wrote:

Anyone ever seen one of these in the wild?

https://web.archive.org/web/19971027020324/http://www.ald.com/ald/mca.html

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

https://web.archive.org/web/19980504130832/http://www.ald.com/ald/mca.html

Most recent update: 2/10/96

Gone by 1999, 2000 for certain.

Louis Ohland wrote:

No.

Required Instrument: HP165x, 166x, 167x, or 165xx family of logic analyzers

Bus signals supported: All MCA ™ - 32 bit slot signals except slot specific signals (e.g. -CD-SETUP) and audio.

Part Number
    ALD-1M for HP1650, 52, 16510, 511, 540
    [ HP P/N ALO60003 ]
    ALD-2M for HP1660, 62, 16550, 555, & later
    [ HP P/N ALO60004 ]

Note that there is an HP P/N. There is no chance that HPE has anything
on this.

Kevin Bowling wrote:

Anyone ever seen one of these in the wild?

https://web.archive.org/web/19971027020324/http://www.ald.com/ald/mca.html >>

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/15_Mfrs_Publications/20_HP_Agilent/Discontinued_Products.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiHhaDOgL2GAxW-5ckDHZplAoUQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2IwtLEKV5zfKCLkIPspfbd

ALO-60003 MicroChannel Bus preprocessor-1650,510 No longer supported
ALO-60004 MicroChannel Bus preprocessor-1660,550 No longer supported
FSI-60009 MicroChannel Preprocessor No longer supported

www.agilent.com/find/t&m
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

On 6/2/24 05:18, Kevin Bowling wrote:

Anyone ever seen one of these in the wild?

Not me.

https://web.archive.org/web/19971027020324/http://www.ald.com/ald/mca.html

I never knew such existed.

I feel like TubeTime would be interested in one if he knew they existed.
Or making something akin to it.
--
Grant. . . .
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

On 6/2/24 06:11, Louis Ohland wrote:

No.

Required Instrument: HP165x, 166x, 167x, or 165xx family of logic analyzers

I've got one of these. Goal is to eventually probe the MCA bus,
particularly some of the RS/6k frame buffers.

I'm not sure how complex the device is, I guess there is the board
itself which should be relatively simple to replicate it just mentions
"bus loading". It also came with a disk that gave the LA some knowledge
of the MCA mnemonics.

Bus signals supported: All MCA ™ - 32 bit slot signals except slot specific signals (e.g. -CD-SETUP) and audio.

Part Number
    ALD-1M for HP1650, 52, 16510, 511, 540
    [ HP P/N ALO60003 ]
    ALD-2M for HP1660, 62, 16550, 555, & later
    [ HP P/N ALO60004 ]

Note that there is an HP P/N. There is no chance that HPE has anything
on this.

Kevin Bowling wrote:

Anyone ever seen one of these in the wild?

https://web.archive.org/web/19971027020324/http://www.ald.com/ald/mca.html

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

I used the MCA bus breakout headers on a Snark Barker while probing the
10/100 Mbps Ethernet (9-K) initialization phase of the AIX driver, plus
a few extra flying wires for the upper 24 data lines the Snark Barker
does not provide.

I bet the HP card had an extra analyzer setting to go with the card, so
you didn't have to name all the 104 channels manually and set up the
triggers.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

I tracked the preprocessor down on Agilent, but no drivers or files. As
you expect from HP [or HPE], the website is a dumpster fire.

extra analyzer setting

Which means what? A macro? I'm totally clueless, never had any sort of analysis in my past that was logical...

name all... 104 channels manually and set up the triggers

We wouldn't wandt to trigger anyone, would we?

ChristianHolzapfel wrote:

I used the MCA bus breakout headers on a Snark Barker while probing the 10/100 Mbps Ethernet (9-K) initialization phase of the AIX driver, plus
a few extra flying wires for the upper 24 data lines the Snark Barker
does not provide.

I bet the HP card had an extra analyzer setting to go with the card, so
you didn't have to name all the 104 channels manually and set up the triggers.

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

Magic Christian, how many signals need to be probed on a 32-bit MCA bus?

Louis Ohland wrote:

I tracked the preprocessor down on Agilent, but no drivers or files. As
you expect from HP [or HPE], the website is a dumpster fire.

extra analyzer setting

Which means what? A macro? I'm totally clueless, never had any sort of analysis in my past that was logical...

name all... 104 channels manually and set up the triggers

We wouldn't wandt to trigger anyone, would we?

ChristianHolzapfel wrote:

I used the MCA bus breakout headers on a Snark Barker while probing the
10/100 Mbps Ethernet (9-K) initialization phase of the AIX driver, plus
a few extra flying wires for the upper 24 data lines the Snark Barker
does not provide.

I bet the HP card had an extra analyzer setting to go with the card, so
you didn't have to name all the 104 channels manually and set up the
triggers.

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

Kevin, what logic analyzer do you have?

Kevin Bowling wrote:

HP165x, 166x, 167x, or 165xx family of logic analyzers

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

https://web.archive.org/web/19970127071143/http://www.tmo.hp.com/tmo/datasheets/English/HPE2423A.html
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

It depends on what you are trying to see.
The complete signal list is about 120 wires.

For POS setup only?
Then CDSETUP#, CMD#, ADL#, S0#, S1#, M/IO#, A0-A2, D0-D7 will do.

A 32-bit IO or memory data transfer?
Probably CMD#, maybe ADL#, S0#, S1#, M/IO#, A0-A23, D0-D31 and BE0-BE3.

Even more for IRQs, extended bus cycles, burst transfers or DMA interaction.

extra analyzer setting

The bus analysis consists of typically three preparation steps:

1) Wiring setup
The HP card is probably used to just break out the important MCA signals
onto the 104 wires the analyzer is able to capture, store and display.
So the HP card gives you a fixed assignment of the MCA signals onto its headers where the analyzer plugs into.
Say analyzer line 1 = D0, line 2 = D1, ..., line 33 = A0, line 34 = A1,
..., line 55 = CDSETUP#, ..., line 104 = M/IO#.
So the card makes it easy for you to plug all 104 or so wires of the
analyzer onto the bus - fine.

2) Name setup
Now you would have to setup the analyzer software that needs to know
this assignment too, in order to display what's going on on the bus.
Name signal 1 = D0, signal 2 = D2, ..., signal 33 = A0 etc.
Tedious work.

3) Protocol interpretation
Now we have all wires connected and all names set.
Say we captured 2 seconds of MCA transfers, what next? We would like to interpret the captured transfers.
We know from the HITR that each transfer starts with CMD# going low,
then A0-A23 are driven to define the address that's being written (S0#
going low) or read (S1# going low), and the address is sampled when ADL#
goes low. Then the data lines are being driven...blah blah. It's all in
the HITR, and it defines the various transfer protocols of our glorious
Micro Channel. The logic analyzer needs to know those protocols, on the properly wired and named signals to actually understand what's going on.
With this logic somehow implemented, usually by loading a specific file
that the analyzer can interpret, you (the operator) can now search for
and view actual transfers like "let me see the first moment when POS is
set up" or "what has been written to I/O 0x600h?
Those are good examples for typical questions that an analyzer operator, probably a developer of an adapter or its driver, would like to have
answered by the logic analyzer.


Am 03.06.24 um 15:06 schrieb Louis Ohland:

Magic Christian, how many signals need to be probed on a 32-bit MCA bus?

Louis Ohland wrote:

I tracked the preprocessor down on Agilent, but no drivers or files.
As you expect from HP [or HPE], the website is a dumpster fire.

extra analyzer setting

Which means what? A macro? I'm totally clueless, never had any sort of
analysis in my past that was logical...

name all... 104 channels manually and set up the triggers

We wouldn't wandt to trigger anyone, would we?

ChristianHolzapfel wrote:

I used the MCA bus breakout headers on a Snark Barker while probing the
10/100 Mbps Ethernet (9-K) initialization phase of the AIX driver, plus
a few extra flying wires for the upper 24 data lines the Snark Barker
does not provide.

I bet the HP card had an extra analyzer setting to go with the card, so
you didn't have to name all the 104 channels manually and set up the
triggers.

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

Is this just a breakout card, or does it have actual components?

Kevin Bowling wrote:

On 6/2/24 06:11, Louis Ohland wrote:

No.

Required Instrument: HP165x, 166x, 167x, or 165xx family of logic
analyzers

I've got one of these.  Goal is to eventually probe the MCA bus, particularly some of the RS/6k frame buffers.

I'm not sure how complex the device is, I guess there is the board
itself which should be relatively simple to replicate it just mentions
"bus loading".  It also came with a disk that gave the LA some knowledge
of the MCA mnemonics.

Bus signals supported: All MCA ™ - 32 bit slot signals except slot
specific signals (e.g. -CD-SETUP) and audio.

Part Number
     ALD-1M for HP1650, 52, 16510, 511, 540
     [ HP P/N ALO60003 ]
     ALD-2M for HP1660, 62, 16550, 555, & later
     [ HP P/N ALO60004 ]

Note that there is an HP P/N. There is no chance that HPE has anything
on this.


Kevin Bowling wrote:

Anyone ever seen one of these in the wild?

https://web.archive.org/web/19971027020324/http://www.ald.com/ald/mca.html >>>

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

https://web.archive.org/web/20010627065914/http://www.tek.com/Measurement/cgi-bin/framed.pl?Document=/Measurement/Products/catalog/tla700/upbus/index.html&FrameSet=logic_analyzers

New Wave PDG

New Wave has been providing Bus Adapter products for Tektronix Logic
Analyzers since 1991. Our products are used in conjunction with
Tektronix Logic Analyzers. These analysis systems are used by design, development and support engineers to verify and debug standard bus applications

Product Summary

The NEX-MCA support package provides clocking, setup, symbolic
disassembly, and a quick convenient connection to the MCA bus. It
includes a custom interface card which plugs into any Micro Channel
slot. Logic Analyzers supported/channel count requirement. Ordering Information.

Symbolic Disassembly: After an acquisition is made the NEX-MCA support identifies the type of transaction that occurred. For example, it will identify I/O Write, I/O Read, Reserved, Memory Write, Memory Read,
Inactive, Strmng Data Mem Write, Strmng Data Mem Read, and Refresh.

Timing Analysis: By acquiring data in asynchronous mode on the Tektronix
Logic Analyzer, high speed accurate timing measurements can be made of
the MCA Bus.

Correlating Bus Activity: While the NEX-MCA package is being used to
monitor the MCA bus activity, another acquisition module can be used to monitor activity elsewhere in the system. The results of the two
acquisitions can be correlated in time to determine the sequence of
actions that occurred. For instance, the system microprocessor could be monitored and correlated with bus activity to verify the proper response
to an external interrupt condition.

Signal Monitoring: Jumper areas are provided to select some of the
signals to be monitored, such as Interrupt Request.

Clips are also provided to be used in acquiring the Micro Channel
Matched Memory and slot specific signals.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

Topics include: "Why Use Bus Support?", "What is a Bus?", Overview of
the ISA, EISA, MCA, PCI, PCMCIA, and VME bus, and "Correlating With Data
From Other Acquisition Modules"

https://web.archive.org/web/19991103191347/http://www.busboards.com/present/bus.pdf

Aaanndd... link is not found
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

https://archive.org/download/manualzilla-id-5745443/5745443.pdf

Louis Ohland wrote:

https://web.archive.org/web/20010627065914/http://www.tek.com/Measurement/cgi-bin/framed.pl?Document=/Measurement/Products/catalog/tla700/upbus/index.html&FrameSet=logic_analyzers

New Wave PDG

New Wave has been providing Bus Adapter products for Tektronix Logic Analyzers since 1991. Our products are used in conjunction with
Tektronix Logic Analyzers. These analysis systems are used by design, development and support engineers to verify and debug standard bus applications

Product Summary

The NEX-MCA support package provides clocking, setup, symbolic
disassembly, and a quick convenient connection to the MCA bus. It
includes a custom interface card which plugs into any Micro Channel
slot. Logic Analyzers supported/channel count requirement. Ordering Information.

Symbolic Disassembly: After an acquisition is made the NEX-MCA support identifies the type of transaction that occurred. For example, it will identify I/O Write, I/O Read, Reserved, Memory Write, Memory Read,
Inactive, Strmng Data Mem Write, Strmng Data Mem Read, and Refresh.

Timing Analysis: By acquiring data in asynchronous mode on the Tektronix Logic Analyzer, high speed accurate timing measurements can be made of
the MCA Bus.

Correlating Bus Activity: While the NEX-MCA package is being used to
monitor the MCA bus activity, another acquisition module can be used to monitor activity elsewhere in the system. The results of the two acquisitions can be correlated in time to determine the sequence of
actions that occurred. For instance, the system microprocessor could be monitored and correlated with bus activity to verify the proper response
to an external interrupt condition.

Signal Monitoring: Jumper areas are provided to select some of the
signals to be monitored, such as Interrupt Request.

Clips are also provided to be used in acquiring the Micro Channel
Matched Memory and slot specific signals.

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

https://web.archive.org/web/20070330004145/http://www.nexustechnology.com/lit/datasheets/MCA-DS-XXX.pdf

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

No drivers, support files, or any documentation past the datasheet or [L]user's guide...
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

On 6/3/24 16:29, Louis Ohland wrote:

No drivers, support files, or any documentation past the datasheet or [L]user's guide...

Huh they actually still have it listed https://www.nexustechnology.com/products/legacy/parallel/

Sendting them an email now..
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

On 6/3/24 06:10, Louis Ohland wrote:

Kevin, what logic analyzer do you have?

I have several, a HP 16700 or Tektronix 715 would be the most
comfortable target.

Kevin Bowling wrote:

HP165x, 166x, 167x, or 165xx family of logic analyzers

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

1670x?

Kevin Bowling wrote:

HP 16700

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

Why is it that anything related to HP sends me to a dumpster fire?

Louis Ohland wrote:

1670x?

Kevin Bowling wrote:

HP 16700

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

On 6/3/24 18:49, Louis Ohland wrote:

Why is it that anything related to HP sends me to a dumpster fire?

HP Test & Measurement got split out into Agilent, who then split out
Test & Measurement to Keysight. Keysight does maintain a lot of the old
docs.

The HP catalogs are a better entry point
http://hparchive.com/hp_catalogs than any WWW stuff until you need to
know specifics. Bitsavers has some of that specific.

Louis Ohland wrote:

1670x?

16700 and 16702 are the same overall thing, the 0 has a built into LCD. Modular LAs that can run a variety of LA cards, pattern generators, or integrated oscilloscopes all depending on what you want out of the
machine. For reverse engineering, a simpler all-in-one LA like the 1660
or 1670 will do just fine, but the modular ones are nice for new designs
or more in depth research.

Kevin Bowling wrote:

HP 16700

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

https://assets-us-01.kc-usercontent.com/ecb176a6-5a2e-0000-8943-84491e5fc8d1/a095383b-3bc0-4990-be37-a2a8729f6392/hp_16522a.pdf

Kevin Bowling wrote:

HP 16700

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From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.ps2.hardware

https://assets-us-01.kc-usercontent.com/ecb176a6-5a2e-0000-8943-84491e5fc8d1/b0983aa8-ce9d-499c-8ccf-16906bb39eb2/hp_16702a.pdf
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114