• Re: 'People like to hate EA, I don't know why'

    From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Sat Mar 22 12:21:38 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 15:04:02 +0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, JAB
    wrote:

    On 22/03/2025 12:37, Zaghadka wrote:
    On Sat, 22 Mar 2025 08:47:31 +0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, JAB
    wrote:
    But besides all of that what have EA done wrong?

    They also killed Princess Diana. Or so I've been told.


    No that was MI5 or maybe MI6, can't remember now.

    MI10/6 I think.
    --
    Zag

    This is csipg.rpg - reality is off topic. ...G. Quinn ('08)
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From candycanearter07@candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Sun Mar 23 06:20:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote at 22:13 this Friday (GMT):
    On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 15:15:05 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    The sad thing is, I still think EA is one of the _better_ triple-A >>publishers... because the rest of them are even worse!

    I remember back in the C=64 days when I would buy anything published by
    EA, because they were *that* good. Of course I would immediately crack
    their stupid 10 minute long half-track loader (their proprietary DRM) and have the game load up in 3 seconds with FastLoad.

    And for people who didn't crack the endless EA logo loading screen? I
    made a fortune realigning 1541 hard drives so it would work. I always
    offered the pirate tool though.

    But still, Archon, Seven Cities of Gold, MULE. They were amazing.


    Wait, why did the DRM take so long?
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Sun Mar 23 11:20:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 06:20:05 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

    Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote at 22:13 this Friday (GMT):
    On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 15:15:05 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    The sad thing is, I still think EA is one of the _better_ triple-A >>>publishers... because the rest of them are even worse!

    I remember back in the C=64 days when I would buy anything published by
    EA, because they were *that* good. Of course I would immediately crack
    their stupid 10 minute long half-track loader (their proprietary DRM) and
    have the game load up in 3 seconds with FastLoad.

    And for people who didn't crack the endless EA logo loading screen? I
    made a fortune realigning 1541 hard drives so it would work. I always
    offered the pirate tool though.

    But still, Archon, Seven Cities of Gold, MULE. They were amazing.


    Wait, why did the DRM take so long?


    Not having heard of half-tracks, I did some quick googling and
    realized that they were the same thing as Fat Tracks, which is what I
    knew them as. The trick was that the copy protection wrote three
    tracks data on the floppy disk onto two tracks, something home systems
    couldn't easily do (it basically fucked around with the formatting and overwrote half of a track.)

    [Think of tracks like concentric rings around a disk. Each ring
    has a start/end point that is synchronized with the ones below
    it. The publisher would write to one track, then before writing
    the next, stop writing for half a revolution, then overwrite
    that same track from the halfway mark (with a new marker for a
    'start' point), then wait half a revolution (so the drive synced
    up with the normal formatting again. Essentially, you get one
    track with two start points this way. It doesn't allow you to
    get more data on the disk, it's just fucking with the
    synchronization points on the floppy]

    This made it harder for home users to 'copy that floppy' for their
    friends, since the program would check for this 'half track' of data
    stuck between the two regular tracks, and -not finding it- would halt
    the game or application.

    I don't know if it was actually slower but I can imagine it was.
    Reading that half track was probably almost as tricky as writing it;
    you can't just use regular disk routines but had to add the extra
    overhead of using your own disk-read software... which was probably an
    even bigger hit on the C64, since you then had to rely on the
    computer's main CPU instead of offloading it to the floppy-drive
    electronics.

    [The C64 floppy drive was basically its own separate computer,
    which is why it cost almost as much as the C64 itself. This
    usually meant a program could just offload read/write duties to
    the floppy drive and then get back to doing its own thing on
    the C64's main processor, but if you were fucking around with
    oddball copy-protection methods that may not have been an option

    It wasn't a very successful copy protection method. Apparently users
    could, if they made enough attempts, accidentally get their copy
    programs to duplicate the half-track, and even if they couldn't, the
    routine that checked for the 'half track' it was easily patched out by crackers.

    [Written from memory and half-scanned articles on the web.
    Errors likely abound. Feel free to offer corrections ;-)]



    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From candycanearter07@candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Sun Mar 23 15:40:04 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote at 15:20 this Sunday (GMT):
    On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 06:20:05 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07
    <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

    Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote at 22:13 this Friday (GMT):
    On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 15:15:05 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    The sad thing is, I still think EA is one of the _better_ triple-A >>>>publishers... because the rest of them are even worse!

    I remember back in the C=64 days when I would buy anything published by
    EA, because they were *that* good. Of course I would immediately crack
    their stupid 10 minute long half-track loader (their proprietary DRM) and >>> have the game load up in 3 seconds with FastLoad.

    And for people who didn't crack the endless EA logo loading screen? I
    made a fortune realigning 1541 hard drives so it would work. I always
    offered the pirate tool though.

    But still, Archon, Seven Cities of Gold, MULE. They were amazing.


    Wait, why did the DRM take so long?


    Not having heard of half-tracks, I did some quick googling and
    realized that they were the same thing as Fat Tracks, which is what I
    knew them as. The trick was that the copy protection wrote three
    tracks data on the floppy disk onto two tracks, something home systems couldn't easily do (it basically fucked around with the formatting and overwrote half of a track.)

    [Think of tracks like concentric rings around a disk. Each ring
    has a start/end point that is synchronized with the ones below
    it. The publisher would write to one track, then before writing
    the next, stop writing for half a revolution, then overwrite
    that same track from the halfway mark (with a new marker for a
    'start' point), then wait half a revolution (so the drive synced
    up with the normal formatting again. Essentially, you get one
    track with two start points this way. It doesn't allow you to
    get more data on the disk, it's just fucking with the
    synchronization points on the floppy]

    This made it harder for home users to 'copy that floppy' for their
    friends, since the program would check for this 'half track' of data
    stuck between the two regular tracks, and -not finding it- would halt
    the game or application.

    I don't know if it was actually slower but I can imagine it was.
    Reading that half track was probably almost as tricky as writing it;
    you can't just use regular disk routines but had to add the extra
    overhead of using your own disk-read software... which was probably an
    even bigger hit on the C64, since you then had to rely on the
    computer's main CPU instead of offloading it to the floppy-drive
    electronics.

    [The C64 floppy drive was basically its own separate computer,
    which is why it cost almost as much as the C64 itself. This
    usually meant a program could just offload read/write duties to
    the floppy drive and then get back to doing its own thing on
    the C64's main processor, but if you were fucking around with
    oddball copy-protection methods that may not have been an option

    It wasn't a very successful copy protection method. Apparently users
    could, if they made enough attempts, accidentally get their copy
    programs to duplicate the half-track, and even if they couldn't, the
    routine that checked for the 'half track' it was easily patched out by crackers.

    [Written from memory and half-scanned articles on the web.
    Errors likely abound. Feel free to offer corrections ;-)]


    Interesting. I've never looked too deep into the internals of storage
    mediums, but using a quirk of the medium does seem like an alright
    TEMPORARY solution..
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Sun Mar 23 14:00:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Sun, 23 Mar 2025 11:20:26 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    It wasn't a very successful copy protection method. Apparently users
    could, if they made enough attempts, accidentally get their copy
    programs to duplicate the half-track, and even if they couldn't, the
    routine that checked for the 'half track' it was easily patched out by >crackers.

    They didn't do that to work around EA's BS. Nobody patched anything out.*

    The pirate tool put a shim in, and then copied all the data that loaded
    into RAM over 10-15 minutes and dumped it to a flat file, after prompting
    for a destination disk. You could then read it straight into RAM from
    that disk by executing the provided loader. That's right, the pirates
    were so conscientious that they did a loader. The loader knew the
    execution address because it knew where the RAM dump process had started
    in the first place. It was probably in BASIC.

    After that, on a straight 1541? Slow, but maybe 1-2 minutes instead of
    10-15. With Epyx Fastload? It was up in seconds. Beat. Beat. There's
    Archon or M.U.L.E. I just couldn't believe it. Thank god for piracy.

    But to make that EA "Copy Protection" (CP) work legitimately, your drive
    had to be in _perfect_ alignment, and unfortunately, the most common CP
    was deliberate errors on the disc. Errors so severe that they, on
    misread, they caused the drive head to make a loud banging noise as it
    removed any residual magnetic particles. The 1541 went into diagnostic
    and maintenance every time you tried to load a game, for the most severe
    read error possible. The loader then handled the exception, satisfied
    with the catastrophic failure, and branched to another track entirely.

    And after a while, repeating this for every game you loaded took a
    serious toll on your hardware. It was never designed by Commodore to be a common occurance. It was a serious read problem.

    Shit! You guys think Denuvo is bad? The "scene" *exists in the first
    place* because C=64 CP was so gobsmackingly outrageous.

    And EA? Their DRM, and pretty much *only* their DRM, didn't destroy your hardware. Everybody else was loud banging noises. So GO EA!**
    --
    Zag

    This is csipg.rpg - reality is off topic. ...G. Quinn ('08) `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

    * I tell this story from time to time; it is really 100% true. It never
    gets old for me, but it may get old for you! (couplet footnote ftw!)

    ** Er... I mean... 10-20 minutes later. Then GO EA! Yes, it got as bad as
    _20_ minutes for some games. I just Googled it.
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JAB@noway@nochance.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Mon Mar 24 09:03:51 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On 23/03/2025 19:00, Zaghadka wrote:
    Shit! You guys think Denuvo is bad? The "scene" *exists in the first
    place* because C=64 CP was so gobsmackingly outrageous.

    I came from Spectrum land and there, as I presume trying to stop people copying tapes was hard, they went down the route of physical things you
    have to have. Some examples are just typing in certain words from the
    manual, colour charts (colour photo copiers, not that common) and the
    most dreaded of all - Lenslock. The was a piece of plastic with a
    special lens in it that you placed over the screen and then hoped, with
    as many fingers crossed as you could manage, you could see what you
    needed to type in to start the game. It was a right PITA as if you
    actually bought the game then you used this awful method, get a pirate
    copy and it was likely to be patched out.
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mike S.@Mike_S@nowhere.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Mon Mar 24 09:29:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:03:51 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

    I came from Spectrum land and there, as I presume trying to stop people >copying tapes was hard, they went down the route of physical things you
    have to have. Some examples are just typing in certain words from the >manual, colour charts (colour photo copiers, not that common) and the
    most dreaded of all - Lenslock. The was a piece of plastic with a
    special lens in it that you placed over the screen and then hoped, with
    as many fingers crossed as you could manage, you could see what you
    needed to type in to start the game. It was a right PITA as if you
    actually bought the game then you used this awful method, get a pirate
    copy and it was likely to be patched out.

    I watched videos of Lenslock. I personally could not read the
    numbers on the screen. What an awful copy protection scheme.
    Fortunately, I never had to deal with it back in the day.
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Mon Mar 24 10:27:44 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:03:51 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

    On 23/03/2025 19:00, Zaghadka wrote:
    Shit! You guys think Denuvo is bad? The "scene" *exists in the first
    place* because C=64 CP was so gobsmackingly outrageous.

    I came from Spectrum land and there, as I presume trying to stop people >copying tapes was hard, they went down the route of physical things you
    have to have. Some examples are just typing in certain words from the >manual, colour charts (colour photo copiers, not that common) and the
    most dreaded of all - Lenslock. The was a piece of plastic with a
    special lens in it that you placed over the screen and then hoped, with
    as many fingers crossed as you could manage, you could see what you
    needed to type in to start the game. It was a right PITA as if you
    actually bought the game then you used this awful method, get a pirate
    copy and it was likely to be patched out.

    Indeed. It got to the point that at a certain point it became
    advantageous for publishers to market their games as /not/ having
    on-disk copy protection (instead relying, as mentioned, on manual
    look-ups, code-wheels, or even -very rarely- dongles) because stopping
    people from copying the disks was becoming so onerous and pointless.

    Which is (mostly) where I entered into gaming. I only dabbled with the
    8-bits, so I was spared most of the worst excesses of on-disk
    copy-protection, but I ran smack-dab into the offline variety. In
    fact, I can think of only one PC game I encountered that used it
    ("Lemmings"), with everything else relying on manual checks, etc.

    But, honestly, I didn't mind most of the latter. It was, after all, an
    era when most manuals were written well enough that you didn't mind
    thumbing through them, and often the copy-protection checks were so
    integrated into the game so that they felt more like a necessary part
    of the storyline than an onerous check. And none of them were
    impossible to bypass, even if all you had was a pen and paper (and a
    little time). So you /could/ pass on a game to your friends, if you
    really wanted to, but you'd only if you /really/ liked it, because it
    took a lot of work.

    [or a connection to a local BBS with a cracks section in
    their downloads area ;-)]




    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Mon Mar 24 10:33:33 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:29:22 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:03:51 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

    I came from Spectrum land and there, as I presume trying to stop people >>copying tapes was hard, they went down the route of physical things you >>have to have. Some examples are just typing in certain words from the >>manual, colour charts (colour photo copiers, not that common) and the
    most dreaded of all - Lenslock. The was a piece of plastic with a
    special lens in it that you placed over the screen and then hoped, with
    as many fingers crossed as you could manage, you could see what you
    needed to type in to start the game. It was a right PITA as if you >>actually bought the game then you used this awful method, get a pirate >>copy and it was likely to be patched out.

    I watched videos of Lenslock. I personally could not read the
    numbers on the screen. What an awful copy protection scheme.
    Fortunately, I never had to deal with it back in the day.

    Lenslock depended on your screen's size and resolution matching the expectations of the publisher. But if the image on screen was bigger
    or smaller than expected, it wouldn't work. So if you plugged your
    SpectrumZX into the family's massive 22" TV, you wouldn't be able to
    play the game.

    That said, Lenslok's footprint in gaming history is exagerated. It was
    only used in 12 games. This was partly because of the aforementioned
    problems, but also because the cost of manufacturing the lenses added
    too much to the cost of the games.

    [And keeping track of which lens went with which game was a problem.
    There are reports of people getting lens designed for game_X shipped
    in boxes for game_y.]

    Still, when one of those games was Elite, it deserved its reputation
    ;-)


    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dimensional Traveler@dtravel@sonic.net to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Mon Mar 24 07:59:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On 3/24/2025 7:33 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    That said, Lenslok's footprint in gaming history is exagerated. It was
    only used in 12 games. This was partly because of the aforementioned problems, but also because the cost of manufacturing the lenses added
    too much to the cost of the games.

    That's about 15 games too many.
    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dimensional Traveler@dtravel@sonic.net to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Mon Mar 24 08:00:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On 3/24/2025 7:27 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:03:51 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

    On 23/03/2025 19:00, Zaghadka wrote:
    Shit! You guys think Denuvo is bad? The "scene" *exists in the first
    place* because C=64 CP was so gobsmackingly outrageous.

    I came from Spectrum land and there, as I presume trying to stop people
    copying tapes was hard, they went down the route of physical things you
    have to have. Some examples are just typing in certain words from the
    manual, colour charts (colour photo copiers, not that common) and the
    most dreaded of all - Lenslock. The was a piece of plastic with a
    special lens in it that you placed over the screen and then hoped, with
    as many fingers crossed as you could manage, you could see what you
    needed to type in to start the game. It was a right PITA as if you
    actually bought the game then you used this awful method, get a pirate
    copy and it was likely to be patched out.

    Indeed. It got to the point that at a certain point it became
    advantageous for publishers to market their games as /not/ having
    on-disk copy protection (instead relying, as mentioned, on manual
    look-ups, code-wheels, or even -very rarely- dongles) because stopping
    people from copying the disks was becoming so onerous and pointless.

    Which is (mostly) where I entered into gaming. I only dabbled with the 8-bits, so I was spared most of the worst excesses of on-disk copy-protection, but I ran smack-dab into the offline variety. In
    fact, I can think of only one PC game I encountered that used it ("Lemmings"), with everything else relying on manual checks, etc.

    But, honestly, I didn't mind most of the latter. It was, after all, an
    era when most manuals were written well enough that you didn't mind
    thumbing through them, and often the copy-protection checks were so integrated into the game so that they felt more like a necessary part
    of the storyline than an onerous check. And none of them were
    impossible to bypass, even if all you had was a pen and paper (and a
    little time). So you /could/ pass on a game to your friends, if you
    really wanted to, but you'd only if you /really/ liked it, because it
    took a lot of work.

    [or a connection to a local BBS with a cracks section in
    their downloads area ;-)]

    In an age of information sharing the game publishers did all they could
    to prevent customers from sharing information.
    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JAB@noway@nochance.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Tue Mar 25 08:59:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On 24/03/2025 14:33, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    That said, Lenslok's footprint in gaming history is exagerated. It was
    only used in 12 games. This was partly because of the aforementioned problems, but also because the cost of manufacturing the lenses added
    too much to the cost of the games.

    It may not have been used in many games but if Tomahawk was one of your favourite games it sticks in your memory!
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JAB@noway@nochance.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Tue Mar 25 09:02:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On 22/03/2025 14:29, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    But for all that, I still have warmer feelings toward EA than any of
    its other triple-A competitors (Activision, Ubisoft, Take2, etc.)
    since -for all its ruthless, money-focused actions- they still seem
    the most interested in making games, while the others seem just to
    want to make products. Although I'll be the first to admit that might
    be because I -like others here- have a certain nostalgia for the
    company from back when they released games in albums 😉

    That sounds like saying I have warmer feelings towards Stalin because he wasn't as bad as Hitler :-)
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JAB@noway@nochance.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Tue Mar 25 09:16:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On 24/03/2025 13:29, Mike S. wrote:
    On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:03:51 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

    I came from Spectrum land and there, as I presume trying to stop people
    copying tapes was hard, they went down the route of physical things you
    have to have. Some examples are just typing in certain words from the
    manual, colour charts (colour photo copiers, not that common) and the
    most dreaded of all - Lenslock. The was a piece of plastic with a
    special lens in it that you placed over the screen and then hoped, with
    as many fingers crossed as you could manage, you could see what you
    needed to type in to start the game. It was a right PITA as if you
    actually bought the game then you used this awful method, get a pirate
    copy and it was likely to be patched out.

    I watched videos of Lenslock. I personally could not read the
    numbers on the screen. What an awful copy protection scheme.
    Fortunately, I never had to deal with it back in the day.

    Oh I did and it was just finicky to get it to work. To rub salt into the
    wound I thought, hang on a sec I've actually paid to buy this thing
    although strictly speaking not really as £10 was by then the anchor
    price for premium games which you can blame Ultimate for with Sabre Wulf.
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mike S.@Mike_S@nowhere.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Tue Mar 25 14:01:59 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 09:16:17 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

    Oh I did and it was just finicky to get it to work. To rub salt into the >wound I thought, hang on a sec I've actually paid to buy this thing
    although strictly speaking not really as �10 was by then the anchor
    price for premium games which you can blame Ultimate for with Sabre Wulf.

    The craziest copy protection scheme I had to deal with was having to
    plug in this adapter\dongle thingy that came with one of my games to
    play it. I thought that was weird, but that has nothing on Lenslock.
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Tue Mar 25 16:09:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 14:01:59 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Mike
    S. wrote:

    On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 09:16:17 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

    Oh I did and it was just finicky to get it to work. To rub salt into the >>wound I thought, hang on a sec I've actually paid to buy this thing >>although strictly speaking not really as �10 was by then the anchor
    price for premium games which you can blame Ultimate for with Sabre Wulf.

    The craziest copy protection scheme I had to deal with was having to
    plug in this adapter\dongle thingy that came with one of my games to
    play it. I thought that was weird, but that has nothing on Lenslock.

    I had a dongle for my Paperclip word processor on the C=64. It plugged
    into the 9-pin joystick port 1. For some reason, port 1 was just...
    different from port 2. Ah, quirky hardware.
    --
    Zag

    This is csipg.rpg - reality is off topic. ...G. Quinn ('08)
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From candycanearter07@candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Tue Mar 25 22:40:07 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 14:59 this Monday (GMT):
    On 3/24/2025 7:33 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    That said, Lenslok's footprint in gaming history is exagerated. It was
    only used in 12 games. This was partly because of the aforementioned
    problems, but also because the cost of manufacturing the lenses added
    too much to the cost of the games.

    That's about 15 games too many.


    Where did the other 3 come from?
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dimensional Traveler@dtravel@sonic.net to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Tue Mar 25 18:14:43 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On 3/25/2025 3:40 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 14:59 this Monday (GMT):
    On 3/24/2025 7:33 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    That said, Lenslok's footprint in gaming history is exagerated. It was
    only used in 12 games. This was partly because of the aforementioned
    problems, but also because the cost of manufacturing the lenses added
    too much to the cost of the games.

    That's about 15 games too many.

    Where did the other 3 come from?

    If you have to ask you wouldn't understand the answer.
    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Wed Mar 26 11:29:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 14:01:59 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 09:16:17 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

    Oh I did and it was just finicky to get it to work. To rub salt into the >>wound I thought, hang on a sec I've actually paid to buy this thing >>although strictly speaking not really as �10 was by then the anchor
    price for premium games which you can blame Ultimate for with Sabre Wulf.

    The craziest copy protection scheme I had to deal with was having to
    plug in this adapter\dongle thingy that came with one of my games to
    play it. I thought that was weird, but that has nothing on Lenslock.


    The most famous game on computer to use dongle-based copy protection
    was Ocean's "Robocop 3" (and even that game dropped the dongle pretty
    quickly because it didn't offer significantly more protection, but did
    raise the cost of the game!). "10th Frame", "B.A.T" and "Leaderbord"
    and "Neutral Zone" were amongst the handful of others that implemented
    dongle protection. Apparently some games on consoles also used dongles
    to help bypass the licensing checks used by Nintendo etc. to make sure
    only "allowed" games ran on "their" hardware.

    Players, in general, hated dongles. The disadvantages were numerous.
    They suffered from hardware compatibility issues with hardware that
    usually worked well enough but wasn't close enough to spec to work
    with the dongle. Dongles were easily lost. If you had multiple games
    with dongles, you either had to swap them out (and thus risk losing
    one) or face possible compatibility issues caused by chaining dongles.
    Checking for the presence of the dongle could often be slow. They
    added to the price of the game. And unlike off-disk copy-protection,
    they added nothing to the experience of the game (I mean, sure
    code-wheels were annoying, but at least you got to spin the wheel ;-).
    So you didn't see many games that actually used a hardware dongle.

    Of course, for a while CD-ROM based disk-protection could have been
    seen as a form of dongle; keep the disk in the drive or the game won't
    run! ;-)

    Dongles were _a lot_ more common on application software, because the
    price of the hardware device was more easily absorbed into the very
    high price of the application. Also, because these apps were more
    expensive, end users were more likely to take care of them (as opposed
    to kids and their throw-away games). But when you were talking about a
    $5000 program, you better believe that you knew where the dongle was! Furthermore, because the app was likely to be in continued use for
    year after year, it was much less likely to get unplugged and lost, as
    opposed to a game which you will probably stop playing (and remove the
    dongle) after a few months.

    All this made dongles a lot more common in business software than in
    games. The only software I remember specifically that used a dongle
    was Quark Xpress, an early desktop-publishing program, but dongles
    were endemic. I recall one instance when an office had a bunch of
    dongles (one plugged into the next plugged into the next) that was
    easily a foot in length (and the dongles had to be plugged into one
    another in a VERY specific order otherwise they wouldn't work).
    Dongles are still used to this day; fortunately, most are USB these
    days rather than parallel or serial-port based so at least the pain of
    chaining is gone ;-)


    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Thu Mar 27 10:33:34 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 11:29:40 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 14:01:59 -0400, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 09:16:17 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

    Oh I did and it was just finicky to get it to work. To rub salt into the >>>wound I thought, hang on a sec I've actually paid to buy this thing >>>although strictly speaking not really as �10 was by then the anchor >>>price for premium games which you can blame Ultimate for with Sabre Wulf.

    The craziest copy protection scheme I had to deal with was having to
    plug in this adapter\dongle thingy that came with one of my games to
    play it. I thought that was weird, but that has nothing on Lenslock.


    The most famous game on computer to use dongle-based copy protection
    was Ocean's "Robocop 3" (and even that game dropped the dongle pretty
    quickly because it didn't offer significantly more protection, but did
    raise the cost of the game!). "10th Frame", "B.A.T" and "Leaderbord"
    and "Neutral Zone" were amongst the handful of others that implemented
    dongle protection. Apparently some games on consoles also used dongles
    to help bypass the licensing checks used by Nintendo etc. to make sure
    only "allowed" games ran on "their" hardware.

    Brevity is the soul of wit.

    Players, in general, hated dongles. The disadvantages were numerous.
    They suffered from hardware compatibility issues with hardware that
    usually worked well enough but wasn't close enough to spec to work
    with the dongle. Dongles were easily lost. If you had multiple games
    with dongles, you either had to swap them out (and thus risk losing
    one) or face possible compatibility issues caused by chaining dongles.

    That said, I intend to be entirely "witless." I'm about to lose my wits.

    Checking for the presence of the dongle could often be slow. They
    added to the price of the game. And unlike off-disk copy-protection,
    they added nothing to the experience of the game (I mean, sure
    code-wheels were annoying, but at least you got to spin the wheel ;-).
    So you didn't see many games that actually used a hardware dongle.

    Screw code wheels and "page 3, paragraph 2, word 5" schemes. Really now?

    But in The Lurking Horror, the *premiums* were the CP. You recieved a
    physical student ID in the box, and the entire game was impossible to
    take beyond a limited demo if you didn't read it and type in your student
    ID number. Space Quest IV had a puzzle with a series of "IRK addresses"
    (a play on the IRQ address) that you had to configure to get beyond a
    certain point of the game. The "technical specs" to navigate this were in
    the manual, with no shortage of gallows humor regarding the lack of "plug-and-play." Not only was that fun, it was funny!

    So CP went way beyond code wheels when the developer was clever enough to
    make hardware-based CP actually fun.

    Unfortunately, the entire BBS system ruined their fun in doing so,
    because they couldn't provide different manual configurations for
    different copies at the time. We were a bunch of ungrateful, freeloading
    little bitches. They tried. We behaved poorly.

    Of course, for a while CD-ROM based disk-protection could have been
    seen as a form of dongle; keep the disk in the drive or the game won't
    run! ;-)

    Yes. This is not a dongle, but it does fall into the category of a hardware-based DRM scheme. A medium like a floppy disk is hardware.
    Reading it is a hardware operation. Requiring reading it to run the game,
    by leaving data on the CD-ROM (which was valid because HD sizes were
    small, eg: Journeyman Project)* is a hardware solution. Rewarding someone
    with Redbook audio by providing a hybrid disk is a hardware solution.

    Software recognition of a valid, but malformatted, disc is not. When they finally turned to things like Safedisc, then it's hardware assisted
    software DRM. It's still a piece of hardware though.

    Dongles were _a lot_ more common on application software, because the
    price of the hardware device was more easily absorbed into the very
    high price of the application. Also, because these apps were more
    expensive, end users were more likely to take care of them (as opposed
    to kids and their throw-away games). But when you were talking about a
    $5000 program, you better believe that you knew where the dongle was! >Furthermore, because the app was likely to be in continued use for
    year after year, it was much less likely to get unplugged and lost, as >opposed to a game which you will probably stop playing (and remove the >dongle) after a few months.

    Hell, some of them required that you solder a chip to your mainboard, or
    plug in an ISA card later on. I remember when my teacher soldered a Word Processor chip to a Commodore PET in the lab. She showed me the odd
    little beetle like thing, and I really enjoyed that. (c 1982).

    All this made dongles a lot more common in business software than in
    games. The only software I remember specifically that used a dongle
    was Quark Xpress, an early desktop-publishing program, but dongles
    were endemic. I recall one instance when an office had a bunch of
    dongles (one plugged into the next plugged into the next) that was
    easily a foot in length (and the dongles had to be plugged into one
    another in a VERY specific order otherwise they wouldn't work).
    Dongles are still used to this day; fortunately, most are USB these
    days rather than parallel or serial-port based so at least the pain of >chaining is gone ;-)

    USB dongles are also used for high security credential management.
    Eventually, we might all be using NFC on our phones to log in.
    Fingerprint recognition (biometrics) is already pretty ubiquitous.

    Dongles get a bad rap. They can be a very useful tool. But it can't
    propagate to 10 of them. My wife keeps hers on a lanyard. It gets her everywhere.
    --
    Zag

    This is csipg.rpg - reality is off topic. ...G. Quinn ('08) ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

    * I remember when my best friend got an (at the time) HUGE HDD and put
    the entire Journeyman Project CD on it, and SUBSTed the drive to a CD-ROM letter. It ran like a dream. It was also the only game available on his
    system! IIRC he also did things like run entire games off a RAMDisk.
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From candycanearter07@candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Fri Mar 28 15:50:02 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 01:14 this Wednesday (GMT):
    On 3/25/2025 3:40 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 14:59 this Monday (GMT): >>> On 3/24/2025 7:33 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    That said, Lenslok's footprint in gaming history is exagerated. It was >>>> only used in 12 games. This was partly because of the aforementioned
    problems, but also because the cost of manufacturing the lenses added
    too much to the cost of the games.

    That's about 15 games too many.

    Where did the other 3 come from?

    If you have to ask you wouldn't understand the answer.


    Well, I definitely won't if you won't tell me :D
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dimensional Traveler@dtravel@sonic.net to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Fri Mar 28 17:44:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On 3/28/2025 8:50 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 01:14 this Wednesday (GMT):
    On 3/25/2025 3:40 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 14:59 this Monday (GMT): >>>> On 3/24/2025 7:33 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    That said, Lenslok's footprint in gaming history is exagerated. It was >>>>> only used in 12 games. This was partly because of the aforementioned >>>>> problems, but also because the cost of manufacturing the lenses added >>>>> too much to the cost of the games.

    That's about 15 games too many.

    Where did the other 3 come from?

    If you have to ask you wouldn't understand the answer.

    Well, I definitely won't if you won't tell me :D

    Its a way of saying they never should have done it in the first place.
    Sort of like saying you could have prevented WW2 by killing Hitler's
    parents before he was born.
    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From shawn@nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Sat Mar 29 09:07:30 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 17:13:36 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 15:15:05 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    The sad thing is, I still think EA is one of the _better_ triple-A >>publishers... because the rest of them are even worse!

    I remember back in the C=64 days when I would buy anything published by
    EA, because they were *that* good. Of course I would immediately crack
    their stupid 10 minute long half-track loader (their proprietary DRM) and >have the game load up in 3 seconds with FastLoad.

    And for people who didn't crack the endless EA logo loading screen? I
    made a fortune realigning 1541 hard drives so it would work. I always
    offered the pirate tool though.

    But still, Archon, Seven Cities of Gold, MULE. They were amazing.

    Indeed back in the Trip Hawkins era they were a great company. Focused
    on making money but also celebrating the developer. Sadly those days
    are long gone.
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Sat Mar 29 10:35:53 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Sat, 29 Mar 2025 09:07:30 -0400, shawn
    <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 17:13:36 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 15:15:05 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    The sad thing is, I still think EA is one of the _better_ triple-A >>>publishers... because the rest of them are even worse!

    I remember back in the C=64 days when I would buy anything published by
    EA, because they were *that* good. Of course I would immediately crack >>their stupid 10 minute long half-track loader (their proprietary DRM) and >>have the game load up in 3 seconds with FastLoad.

    And for people who didn't crack the endless EA logo loading screen? I
    made a fortune realigning 1541 hard drives so it would work. I always >>offered the pirate tool though.

    But still, Archon, Seven Cities of Gold, MULE. They were amazing.

    Indeed back in the Trip Hawkins era they were a great company. Focused
    on making money but also celebrating the developer. Sadly those days
    are long gone.

    The myth is that Hawkins founded EA based on the idea of promoting the developer and that the entire "album cover" packaging was to push the
    idea of software as 'art' and developers as 'rockstars. I don't doubt
    there was some truth to it (if only because the act created the ideal
    rather than the other way around), but from what I've read, internally
    the company was as ruthless and pushy with its developers as any of
    its competitors.

    But it made for a nice story and even if Hawkins didn't personally buy
    into it, it did help to raise developers from faceless backroom number-crunchers into human beings and game development into something
    that might be an enjoyable career.

    Me, I just loved the album-cover form-factor. Had PC gaming fully
    embraced that, I might still have all my box-covers ;-)


    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Sat Mar 29 11:35:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Sat, 29 Mar 2025 10:35:53 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    On Sat, 29 Mar 2025 09:07:30 -0400, shawn
    <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 21 Mar 2025 17:13:36 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 15:15:05 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, >>>Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    The sad thing is, I still think EA is one of the _better_ triple-A >>>>publishers... because the rest of them are even worse!

    I remember back in the C=64 days when I would buy anything published by >>>EA, because they were *that* good. Of course I would immediately crack >>>their stupid 10 minute long half-track loader (their proprietary DRM) and >>>have the game load up in 3 seconds with FastLoad.

    And for people who didn't crack the endless EA logo loading screen? I >>>made a fortune realigning 1541 hard drives so it would work. I always >>>offered the pirate tool though.

    But still, Archon, Seven Cities of Gold, MULE. They were amazing.

    Indeed back in the Trip Hawkins era they were a great company. Focused
    on making money but also celebrating the developer. Sadly those days
    are long gone.

    The myth is that Hawkins founded EA based on the idea of promoting the >developer and that the entire "album cover" packaging was to push the
    idea of software as 'art' and developers as 'rockstars. I don't doubt
    there was some truth to it (if only because the act created the ideal
    rather than the other way around), but from what I've read, internally
    the company was as ruthless and pushy with its developers as any of
    its competitors.

    But it made for a nice story and even if Hawkins didn't personally buy
    into it, it did help to raise developers from faceless backroom >number-crunchers into human beings and game development into something
    that might be an enjoyable career.

    Me, I just loved the album-cover form-factor. Had PC gaming fully
    embraced that, I might still have all my box-covers ;-)

    The fact that I even know the dev teams, and the names behind them,
    because they were on the box and title screen tells me there is some
    truth to it.

    M.U.L.E./Seven Cities - Ozark, with logo, personnel on title screen
    Archon - Free Fall, dev on box and title screen with personnel

    Right on the box. Few did that in those days. Titles were common.

    But 80s businessmen are still 80s biz. You expect miracles, sir.
    --
    Zag

    No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
    spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From candycanearter07@candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Mon Mar 31 19:10:06 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 00:44 this Saturday (GMT):
    On 3/28/2025 8:50 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 01:14 this Wednesday (GMT):
    On 3/25/2025 3:40 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 14:59 this Monday (GMT): >>>>> On 3/24/2025 7:33 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    That said, Lenslok's footprint in gaming history is exagerated. It was >>>>>> only used in 12 games. This was partly because of the aforementioned >>>>>> problems, but also because the cost of manufacturing the lenses added >>>>>> too much to the cost of the games.

    That's about 15 games too many.

    Where did the other 3 come from?

    If you have to ask you wouldn't understand the answer.

    Well, I definitely won't if you won't tell me :D

    Its a way of saying they never should have done it in the first place.
    Sort of like saying you could have prevented WW2 by killing Hitler's
    parents before he was born.


    OH, right. So you're saying you'd be fine with -3 games with it?
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Mon Mar 31 16:31:01 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Mon, 31 Mar 2025 19:10:06 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 00:44 this Saturday (GMT): >> On 3/28/2025 8:50 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 01:14 this Wednesday (GMT):
    On 3/25/2025 3:40 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 14:59 this Monday (GMT):
    On 3/24/2025 7:33 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    That said, Lenslok's footprint in gaming history is exagerated. It was >>>>>>> only used in 12 games. This was partly because of the aforementioned >>>>>>> problems, but also because the cost of manufacturing the lenses added >>>>>>> too much to the cost of the games.

    That's about 15 games too many.

    Where did the other 3 come from?

    If you have to ask you wouldn't understand the answer.

    Well, I definitely won't if you won't tell me :D

    Its a way of saying they never should have done it in the first place.
    Sort of like saying you could have prevented WW2 by killing Hitler's
    parents before he was born.


    OH, right. So you're saying you'd be fine with -3 games with it?


    I'm pretty sure that if somebody could go back in time and remove
    Lenlok from the original Elite there would be much rejoicing.

    It's probably the best use of time travel I've heard so far ;-)



    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?.../v]andrak|=e2=89=a1...?=@jfwaldby@gmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Mon Mar 31 17:50:41 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
    On Mon, 31 Mar 2025 19:10:06 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> wrote:

    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 00:44 this Saturday (GMT): >>> On 3/28/2025 8:50 AM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 01:14 this Wednesday (GMT):
    On 3/25/2025 3:40 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
    Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote at 14:59 this Monday (GMT):
    On 3/24/2025 7:33 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    That said, Lenslok's footprint in gaming history is exagerated. It was >>>>>>>> only used in 12 games. This was partly because of the aforementioned >>>>>>>> problems, but also because the cost of manufacturing the lenses added >>>>>>>> too much to the cost of the games.

    That's about 15 games too many.

    Where did the other 3 come from?

    If you have to ask you wouldn't understand the answer.

    Well, I definitely won't if you won't tell me :D

    Its a way of saying they never should have done it in the first place.
    Sort of like saying you could have prevented WW2 by killing Hitler's
    parents before he was born.


    OH, right. So you're saying you'd be fine with -3 games with it?


    I'm pretty sure that if somebody could go back in time and remove
    Lenlok from the original Elite there would be much rejoicing.

    It's probably the best use of time travel I've heard so far ;-)

    Of the games I paid for as a youngun, I consider Elite the best, only
    rivaled by (you'll probably laugh at this) Zork III. I don't see how
    Elite could have been improved without sacrificing something good.

    After a long day at school I could sit down and play Elite with full
    interest. Space combat of that caliber was unheard of at the time.
    When I stopped playing there were plenty of increasingly difficult
    challenges available (but my mind did not see them till a decade later)
    There was a land based tank game called Battlezone which was similar,
    but land vs. space? You make the call.
    --
    Wears a paper bag like ab oxygeb mask
    till your mibd starts to gel
    'Cause the ball in the can has a crazy beat
    The funky dyin brain cell
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Tue Apr 1 11:31:01 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Mon, 31 Mar 2025 17:50:41 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    .../v wrote:

    Of the games I paid for as a youngun, I consider Elite the best, only >rivaled by (you'll probably laugh at this) Zork III.

    No laughing at that. I remember playing Spellbreaker in my high school
    computer lab. My teachers looked at it and said, "Yeah, go ahead."

    Zork III was ahead of its time. It was totally possible to screw the
    pooch and think you were making progress. You'd even get points!
    --
    Zag

    West of House
    There is a small mailbox here.

    read leaflet
    "WELCOME TO USENET!

    USENET is a game of adventure, danger,
    and low cunning. In it you will
    explore some of the most amazing
    territory ever seen by mortals. No
    computer should be without it!"
    --- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Tue Apr 1 13:05:44 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Tue, 01 Apr 2025 11:31:01 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Mon, 31 Mar 2025 17:50:41 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    .../v wrote:

    Of the games I paid for as a youngun, I consider Elite the best, only >>rivaled by (you'll probably laugh at this) Zork III.

    No laughing at that. I remember playing Spellbreaker in my high school >computer lab. My teachers looked at it and said, "Yeah, go ahead."

    Zork III was ahead of its time. It was totally possible to screw the
    pooch and think you were making progress. You'd even get points!

    Now I'm having "Zork III" flashbacks. Oh god, that fucking mirror box
    puzzle!

    "Spellbreaker", though, was the game that pretty much convinced me I
    was done with text-adventures. It's not that it was a bad game, or
    even that hard, but its difficulty seemed more mean spirited; just to
    be hard because it was expected to be hard. Meanwhile, other games
    were starting to focus more on story and narrative, pushing the idea
    (one I found more attractive) that it was the journey that made games interesting. It wasn't the last text adventure game I played, but it
    was in symbolic in that it ended my era of seeing text-adventures as
    my primary genre.


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  • From Werner P.@werpu@gmx.at to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Wed Apr 2 13:41:23 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    Am 21.03.25 um 23:13 schrieb Zaghadka:
    On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 15:15:05 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    The sad thing is, I still think EA is one of the _better_ triple-A
    publishers... because the rest of them are even worse!

    I remember back in the C=64 days when I would buy anything published by
    EA, because they were *that* good. Of course I would immediately crack
    their stupid 10 minute long half-track loader (their proprietary DRM) and have the game load up in 3 seconds with FastLoad.

    And for people who didn't crack the endless EA logo loading screen? I
    made a fortune realigning 1541 hard drives so it would work. I always
    offered the pirate tool though.

    But still, Archon, Seven Cities of Gold, MULE. They were amazing.

    EA went sideways when they struck gold with annual sports titles from
    that onwards, games were secondary, corporatism was primary!
    And yes they were amazing in the early 80s, but so was Activision and
    Sierra!


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  • From Werner P.@werpu@gmx.at to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Wed Apr 2 13:42:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    Am 29.03.25 um 14:07 schrieb shawn:
    ndeed back in the Trip Hawkins era they were a great company. Focused
    on making money but also celebrating the developer. Sadly those days
    are long gone.

    It still was in the Trip Hawkins Era when they struck gold with yearly
    sports titles and things started to go sideways. EA would have developed
    to what it has become with or without him, he laid the foundation
    corporatism which he established did the rest!


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  • From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action on Wed Apr 2 08:41:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action

    On Wed, 2 Apr 2025 13:41:23 +0200, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Werner P. wrote:

    Am 21.03.25 um 23:13 schrieb Zaghadka:
    On Wed, 19 Mar 2025 15:15:05 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
    Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

    The sad thing is, I still think EA is one of the _better_ triple-A
    publishers... because the rest of them are even worse!

    I remember back in the C=64 days when I would buy anything published by
    EA, because they were *that* good. Of course I would immediately crack
    their stupid 10 minute long half-track loader (their proprietary DRM) and
    have the game load up in 3 seconds with FastLoad.

    And for people who didn't crack the endless EA logo loading screen? I
    made a fortune realigning 1541 hard drives so it would work. I always
    offered the pirate tool though.

    But still, Archon, Seven Cities of Gold, MULE. They were amazing.

    EA went sideways when they struck gold with annual sports titles from
    that onwards, games were secondary, corporatism was primary!
    And yes they were amazing in the early 80s, but so was Activision and >Sierra!


    Indeed.

    I have one small comment about your analysis:

    "IF IT'S IN THE GAME, IT'S *IN THE GAME*"
    --
    Zag

    This is csipg.rpg - reality is off topic. ...G. Quinn ('08)
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