• What is the reality of the Samsung 7-years of S-series support?

    From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Sun Apr 12 22:39:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    It's complicated...

    Q: What is the reality of the Samsung 7-years of S-series support?
    A: ?

    Everyone banters about this word "support" but it has distinct meanings
    that I'm confused about when it comes to what Samsung's promise means.

    Samsung's "7-years" is especially confusing (to me at least) because of
    their policy to "slow down" updates on older phones, even as they are still under what appears to be "full support" and the typical policies of only
    fully updating the latest Android version (& not earlier Android versions).

    So what's Samsung's new S-series 7-years-of-support policy, really?

    Q: How many levels of support does Samsung promise for new devices?
    A: ?

    Does Samsung's 7-year promise for the new S-series devices include...
    a. All known bugfixes for all known bugs (in their control)
    b. All known security vulnerabilities for all known security flaws
    b. All known enhancements for all known modules (in their control)
    c. Seven operating system updates (+ the original operating system)
    d. Any and all those fixes on a regular (i.e., monthly?) schedule?
    e. Or, does that schedule slow down over time but still promise all?
    f. Are the security fixes SIMULTANEOUS on all 7 of those Android upgrades?
    g. ? any others ?

    With iOS, it's a lot easier to calculate because Apple has never in its
    history ever simultaneously fully supported more than a single release.

    All other OS vendors have simultaneously fully supported multiple releases.

    As for the definition of "full support", we must make a point that fixing a random bug in any OS is not full support. Full support means something well documented by Apple but for other operating systems, it's not so easy.

    But full support includes fixing every known bug that can be fixed.
    An example of what is NOT full support is WinXP fixed bugs for 18 years.
    1. Windows XP was released on October 25, 2001
    2. The last known security update was released on May 14, 2019
    3. That is 6,421 days, or 17.59 years of security updates after release

    Also, we have to keep in mind that software support is not the same as
    hardware support, where we calculated on the iOS newsgroup this summary:

    The average iOS SOFTWARE support (this is per release only!)
    a. Sum = 25.52 years (for completed versions)
    b. Count = 16 versions (have completed)
    c. Average = 26.14 / 18 = 1.59 years

    As for the iOS HARDWARE full-security-updates (AFAIK)
    a. Longest full iOS support: 6.99 years (iPhone XS / XS Max)
    b. Shortest full iOS support: 2.37 years (iPhone 3G)
    c. Average full iOS support: 5.10 years

    Given all these varying definitions of "support"...

    This question is asked so that we can, together, nail down what Samsung actually means when they claim "7 years of "support" for the S-series.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to comp.mobile.android on Mon Apr 13 08:34:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia wrote:

    Q: What is the reality of the Samsung 7-years of S-series support?

    Even google's support for Pixels is unequal across the models, the
    eldest models may not receive a security update every month, or a
    feature drop every quarter, but they will receive the major version
    updates every year until they're "too old"



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  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Mon Apr 13 02:38:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Andy Burns wrote:
    Q: What is the reality of the Samsung 7-years of S-series support?

    Even google's support for Pixels is unequal across the models, the
    eldest models may not receive a security update every month, or a
    feature drop every quarter, but they will receive the major version
    updates every year until they're "too old"

    Hi Andy,

    The fact that support is unequal among models is exactly why I limited this
    to the new Samsung S-series devices (as the A-series has lesser support).

    I didn't bring up Google Pixels, but they're fair game in this thread.
    However, I'd limit the Pixels to just the highest model to simplify.

    Is that the Pixel 9 currently?

    I agree that support is complex as all hell on Android. I really do.
    If I could understand it, I wouldn't be asking this question.

    But I'd like to take a stab at it, but ONLY for the newest devices.
    Maybe that's the...
    Pixel 9 series
    Galaxy S26 series

    If we limit it to those two series of phones, that would be the "best"
    support based on the recent legally-required written promises to the UK.

    The UK, as you know, forced Apple & Android OEMs to promise "support".

    The problem, as I see it, with the UK-forced declarations, is that they're essentially meaningless if the OEM can fix a random bug 18 years from now
    and claim that entire 18-year time frame as being "supported".

    Can we at least nail down the support structure for those two devices?
    If not, then how could something so simple be so hopelessly complex?
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to comp.mobile.android on Mon Apr 13 09:52:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia wrote:

    I didn't bring up Google Pixels, but they're fair game in this thread. However, I'd limit the Pixels to just the highest model to simplify.

    Is that the Pixel 9 currently?


    10a is the newest pixel, because the "a" series devices generally lag
    about 6 months behind the primary devices.

    But I'd like to take a stab at it, but ONLY for the newest devices.
    Maybe that's the...
    Pixel 9 series
    Galaxy S26 series

    If we limit it to those two series of phones, that would be the "best" support based on the recent legally-required written promises to the UK.
    <https://endoflife.date/pixel>
    <https://endoflife.date/samsung-mobile>

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Mon Apr 13 03:12:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia wrote:
    The UK, as you know, forced Apple & Android OEMs to promise "support".

    Under the UK PSTI regulations, "support" has a very narrow, legally
    enforceable definition: it is the "Defined Support Period" for which
    security updates will be provided to keep the product safe from vulnerabilities. <https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2023/1007/data.html>

    As far as I understand the UK's consumer-protection rules, they only
    require manufacturers to publish minimum guaranteed support periods.

    But what is the Samsung/Google definition of "support"?

    The problem, as I see it, is that promise of "support" is meaningless when written by a clever lawyer (witness WinXP was 'supported' for ~18 years).

    What I see from Samsung & Google are promises of "support".
    Which, is meaningless at face value (all they have to do is fix one bug).

    Samsung does promise 7 years of Android OS upgrades as part of "support".'
    <https://sammyguru.com/these-galaxy-phones-are-eligible-for-seven-years-of-updates/>

    An S24 ships at 14 so that gets updated to 14->15,16,17,18,19,20,21.

    Samsung also promises "7 years of One UI feature updates" (big deal).
    And, "7 years of security updates", whatever that really means.

    Does that include regular feature updates and all known security patches?

    As far as I can tell, Samsung's promise is almost completely meaningless. Samsung apparently does not promise:
    a. To fix every known bug
    b. To maintain all older Android branches simultaneously
    c. To keep monthly patch frequency for the entire 7 years
    d. To update every subsystem (camera, modem, GPU drivers)

    If all Samsung needs to do is fix one bug in those 7 years,
    they've fulfilled their promise, which makes it a meaningless promise.

    All you get, it seems are OS & GUI upgrades, and "some" security patches.
    We could "guess" that a 'security patch' includes all known security vulnerabilities but where does it say that in Samsung's promises?

    We already know the unsaid patch frequency may slow (from monthly to
    quarterly to biannual for older devices) which is unsaid in the promise.

    And it's highly unlikely to be on all parallel releases.
    It's probably only on the current Android version, right?

    Same questions go for Google's Pixel 8/9/10 support window.
    <https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/devices/pixel/software-support-pixel-8-pixel-8-pro/>

    Here's my assumption:
    1. All known functional bugfixes? No
    2. All known 0-10 CVEs? No
    All known 9-10 critical and 7-8 high CVEs? Yes
    3. OS Updates? As many as fit in those 7 years
    4. Monthly schedule? Yes at first, then not so fast later for Samsung
    For Google, it just might be monthly all along (do you concur?)
    5. Simultaneous releases? No. Fixes only to the current release
    6. Starting gun? Samsung = UK launch date, Pixel = sold in Google Store
    7. Feature drops? Probably no for Samsung save for the UI & Yes for Google
    (as Google controls the entire line while Samsung depends on others)

    But what the hell do I know.
    I'm just guessing.

    And I hate guessing.
    Because we will always guess wrong(ly).
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to comp.mobile.android on Mon Apr 13 10:52:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia wrote:

    Monthly schedule? Yes at first, then not so fast later for Samsung
    For Google, it just might be monthly all along (do you concur?)

    Recently it's not been monthly for all pixels, I think P6 and P7 haven't missed several months, but have now caught up again?

    <https://www.droid-life.com/2026/04/07/pixel-6-pixel-7-updates-schedule-missing/>
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to comp.mobile.android on Mon Apr 13 11:28:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Maria Sophia wrote:
    The UK, as you know, forced Apple & Android OEMs to promise "support".

    Under the UK PSTI regulations, "support" has a very narrow, legally enforceable definition: it is the "Defined Support Period" for which
    security updates will be provided to keep the product safe from vulnerabilities. <https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2023/1007/data.html>

    As far as I understand the UK's consumer-protection rules, they only
    require manufacturers to publish minimum guaranteed support periods.

    And as I explained to you before, you understand them incorrectly.

    The only thing the PSTI (not consumer protection) regulation requires is a declared statement of support. It can be an absolute or a minimum. For
    example, Samsung says an absolute: https://news.samsung.com/uk/notice-new-uk-product-security-and-telecommunications-infrastructure-psti-law

    Where Apple states a minimum: https://regulatoryinfo.apple.com/cwt/api/ext/file?fileId=securityTelecommunication%2FiPhone%2015%20Pro%20Max%20%28Model%20A3106%29_V0.pdf

    But what is the Samsung/Google definition of "support"?

    The problem, as I see it, is that promise of "support" is meaningless when written by a clever lawyer (witness WinXP was 'supported' for ~18 years).

    What I see from Samsung & Google are promises of "support".
    Which, is meaningless at face value (all they have to do is fix one bug).

    Samsung does promise 7 years of Android OS upgrades as part of "support".'
    <https://sammyguru.com/these-galaxy-phones-are-eligible-for-seven-years-of-updates/>

    An S24 ships at 14 so that gets updated to 14->15,16,17,18,19,20,21.

    Samsung also promises "7 years of One UI feature updates" (big deal).
    And, "7 years of security updates", whatever that really means.

    Does that include regular feature updates and all known security patches?

    As far as I can tell, Samsung's promise is almost completely meaningless. Samsung apparently does not promise:
    a. To fix every known bug
    b. To maintain all older Android branches simultaneously
    c. To keep monthly patch frequency for the entire 7 years
    d. To update every subsystem (camera, modem, GPU drivers)

    If all Samsung needs to do is fix one bug in those 7 years,
    they've fulfilled their promise, which makes it a meaningless promise.

    All you get, it seems are OS & GUI upgrades, and "some" security patches.
    We could "guess" that a 'security patch' includes all known security vulnerabilities but where does it say that in Samsung's promises?

    We already know the unsaid patch frequency may slow (from monthly to quarterly to biannual for older devices) which is unsaid in the promise.

    And it's highly unlikely to be on all parallel releases.
    It's probably only on the current Android version, right?

    Same questions go for Google's Pixel 8/9/10 support window.
    <https://blog.google/products-and-platforms/devices/pixel/software-support-pixel-8-pixel-8-pro/>

    Here's my assumption:
    1. All known functional bugfixes? No
    2. All known 0-10 CVEs? No
    All known 9-10 critical and 7-8 high CVEs? Yes
    3. OS Updates? As many as fit in those 7 years
    4. Monthly schedule? Yes at first, then not so fast later for Samsung
    For Google, it just might be monthly all along (do you concur?)
    5. Simultaneous releases? No. Fixes only to the current release
    6. Starting gun? Samsung = UK launch date, Pixel = sold in Google Store
    7. Feature drops? Probably no for Samsung save for the UI & Yes for Google
    (as Google controls the entire line while Samsung depends on others)

    That 7 years of "full" support that you kept crowing about, doesn't look so great now, does it?

    But what the hell do I know.
    I'm just guessing.

    And I hate guessing.
    Because we will always guess wrong(ly).

    There's little need to guess. Here's the details of the Samsung degraded
    7-year support which I shared with you last month. Seems to have finally
    sunk in.
    https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb

    You'll see at the bottom of the page how models are separated into those
    that get monthly updates and those that only get quarterly updates. That support includes having a known vulnerable phone for up to two months
    without a patch.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to comp.mobile.android on Mon Apr 13 14:38:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
    There's little need to guess. Here's the details of the Samsung degraded 7-year support which I shared with you last month. Seems to have finally
    sunk in.
    https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb

    You'll see at the bottom of the page how models are separated into those
    that get monthly updates and those that only get quarterly updates. That support includes having a known vulnerable phone for up to two months
    without a patch.

    However, as that page says:

    "As of January 2024, we are extending our security update support for
    Samsung Galaxy devices by up to 7 years, to help our users enjoy the latest Galaxy experiences longer and securely."

    That refers to future devices, not devices then or previously on sale. As
    we haven't reached 2031 yet, we don't know at what point devices sold in
    2024 will received fewer or no security updates - they're only 2 years old
    at this point. I think the prior update offering was 4 years for flagships,
    so we'll only find out in 2029 whether the 2024 flagships get more than 4 years.

    Theo
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  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to comp.mobile.android on Mon Apr 13 18:13:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
    Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
    There's little need to guess. Here's the details of the Samsung degraded
    7-year support which I shared with you last month. Seems to have finally
    sunk in.
    https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb

    You'll see at the bottom of the page how models are separated into those
    that get monthly updates and those that only get quarterly updates. That
    support includes having a known vulnerable phone for up to two months
    without a patch.

    However, as that page says:

    "As of January 2024, we are extending our security update support for
    Samsung Galaxy devices by up to 7 years, to help our users enjoy the latest Galaxy experiences longer and securely."

    That refers to future devices, not devices then or previously on sale. As
    we haven't reached 2031 yet, we don't know at what point devices sold in
    2024 will received fewer or no security updates - they're only 2 years old
    at this point. I think the prior update offering was 4 years for flagships, so we'll only find out in 2029 whether the 2024 flagships get more than 4 years.

    Agreed. This is all uncharted territory for Samsung (and Google) as like
    you say they've never supported anything longer 4 years.

    We'll also find out if after 4 years it's only security updates or whether they'll still support new versions of Android.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Mon Apr 13 12:37:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Andy Burns wrote:
    Monthly schedule? Yes at first, then not so fast later for Samsung
    For Google, it just might be monthly all along (do you concur?)

    Recently it's not been monthly for all pixels, I think P6 and P7 haven't missed several months, but have now caught up again?

    <https://www.droid-life.com/2026/04/07/pixel-6-pixel-7-updates-schedule-missing/>

    Hi Andy,

    Thanks for all your advice as you're the Pixel guy and I'm the Samsung guy (although plenty of others have Pixels and Samsungs too, so they can help).

    Let's stick with ONLY the devices that shipped AFTER the UK declaration.
    *all parts of Part 1 of the Act not already in force*
    *come into force on 29 April 2024*
    <https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-uk-product-security-and-telecommunications-infrastructure-product-security-regime>

    I don't know all the models but, from this thread, I gather that's:
    Galaxy S-24 (various models)
    Pixel 8/9 (and maybe 10)
    Let's limit the conversation to those 'new' Android model suites if we can.

    It's already confusing enough because the definition of "support" matters. Nobody knows (yet) what it means to be "supported" so that matters most.

    What is the UK PSTI law asking the OEMs to declare anyway?
    Apparently PSTI only requires a declared "support period".

    Huh?
    Any lawyer could write a clever "promise" that is meaningless given
    there's no definition of what "support" means in that requirement.

    Hell, Windows XP "support" lasted for almost 18 years.
    All you have to do is fix one bug and the device is "supported".

    Apparently this is the simplest way to state what the UK regulation is:
    "Publish the period during which security updates will be provided."
    <https://www.tuvsud.com/en/industries/consumer-products-and-retail/uk-psti>

    Apparently the UK left it up to the OEMs to define
    a. What counts as a "security update"
    b. Which vulnerabilities must be fixed
    c. How quickly patches must be delivered
    d. Whether all Android branches must be maintained
    e. Whether feature updates must continue
    f. Whether patch frequency must remain constant

    Since the UK's regulation is essentially a hot-air balloon, I think we have
    no choice but to pick apart with clinical accuracy what Samsung & Google
    have promised in writing.
    --
    Most people believe everything they read but few actually understand it.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Mon Apr 13 15:23:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Chris wrote:
    Agreed. This is all uncharted territory for Samsung (and Google) as like
    you say they've never supported anything longer 4 years.

    We'll also find out if after 4 years it's only security updates or whether they'll still support new versions of Android.

    This is a good discussion to have on the Android newsgroup because nobody
    here will try to defend Google (or Samsung) to the death, no matter what.

    So we can talk about facts here (which can't be attempted on Apple ngs).
    To help get Apple users "over here", I let them know about this discussion.

    It's clear NO OEM historically had "fully supported" phones for more than,
    at most, an average of ~5 years for iPhones & much less for Android phones.

    So 7 years beats Apple by a mile, although the longest fully-supported
    iPhone (that reached EOL by today) was iPhone XS / XS Max at 6.99 years.

    Looking at the UK letters, it's clear the promised minimum timeline is:
    iPhone === Minimum 5 years from the first supply date
    Pixel === 7 years of "Security Updates, OS Updates & Feature Drops
    Galaxy S === 7 years of "Security Updates & Android OS Upgrades"

    What this means, at the highest level, is Apple is promising pretty much
    what Apple has delivered in the past (on average) but Google & Samsung are stepping up, way, way, way over what they've delivered in the past.

    Google/Samsung are equalling Apple's admittedly stellar XS/Max support!
    This is good for everyone.

    The problem is defining exactly what a "security update" really means.

    I'm going to have to assume that "security updates" doesn't mean all bugs.
    a. It likely doesn't even mean all CVEs (but that's just a guess).
    b. It perhaps likely simply means CVEs of 8 to 10 (again, just a guess).

    Is there a definition that the three OEMs used for "security updates"?

    I'm focusing only on the current set of "new" post 2024 devices.
    a. iPhone 15 and up
    Minimum 5 years from the first supply date (Sept 22, 2023)
    I haven't found any Apple definition of the CVE-selection process.
    <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/06/apple-iphone-security-updates-five-year-minimum>
    Apple doesn't seem to have a "fade away" period at the end.
    Apple simply summarily drops full support when the next OS ships.

    b. Pixel 8 and up
    7 years of "Security Updates, OS Updates, and Feature Drops.
    Google defines this internally as addressing all issues listed
    in the Android Security Bulletin (ASB)
    <https://source.android.com/docs/automotive/security/mfg_guide>
    As for the fade-away problem...
    In year 7, they are technically still committed to the "Monthly
    Bulletin," but their hardware partners (modem/GPU vendors) often
    stop providing patches for the "bottom" layer of the phone,
    meaning Google can only patch the Android Framework (the software),
    not the Firmware (the hardware drivers).
    <https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/pixel>

    c. Galaxy S24 and up
    7 years of "Security Updates and Android OS Upgrades"
    Internally, Samsung divides updates into "Security Maintenance
    Releases" (SMRs). These include Google's patches + Samsung's
    own "SVE" (Samsung Vulnerabilities and Exposures).
    <https://www.sammyfans.com/2026/04/06/samsung-april-2026-security-patch-details/>
    Samsung seems to be the most transparent about the "fade away" problem.
    That's likely why all of us know how only Samsung works on fade away.
    Their policy explicitly moves phones from Monthly to Quarterly to
    Biannual updates as they age. By year 6 or 7, we are almost certainly
    only getting "Critical" (9-10) fixes twice a year.

    So, for fade away, "my" summary (open to correction) appears to be:
    iPhone === It's a cliff. You're either fully supported, or not.
    Pixel === Near the end, your monthly updates are no longer monthly
    Galaxy S === Near the end, your monthly updates are quarterly to bi-annual

    Since we're all striving to UNDERSTAND the reality of the declared support, please work with me and with everyone to summarize what we know about it.

    Anything I said above can be wrong. It's simply my best understanding.
    --
    We should question everything we don't understand, until we do understand.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to comp.mobile.android on Tue Apr 14 08:00:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia wrote:

    Pixel 8 and up

    I know you're not particularly interested in older devices, but the 7
    year support period was introduced once google moved to their "own
    brand" Tensor SoCs, where previously the various SoCs they used were
    only supported for 3 years.

    7 years of "Security Updates, OS Updates, and Feature Drops.
    Google defines this internally as addressing all issues listed
    in the Android Security Bulletin (ASB)
    <https://source.android.com/docs/automotive/security/mfg_guide>
    As for the fade-away problem...
    In year 7, they are technically still committed to the "Monthly
    Bulletin," but their hardware partners (modem/GPU vendors) often
    stop providing patches for the "bottom" layer of the phone,
    meaning Google can only patch the Android Framework (the software),
    not the Firmware (the hardware drivers).
    <https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/pixel>

    google have tended to slightly over-deliver on the 3 year support
    period, e.g. my P3 and P5a each received at least one "bonus" firmware
    upgrade outside the expected window. Maybe they will think that 7 years
    is long enough and won't require such "bonus" updates?


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  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to comp.mobile.android on Tue Apr 14 12:26:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
    Maria Sophia wrote:

    Pixel 8 and up

    I know you're not particularly interested in older devices, but the 7
    year support period was introduced once google moved to their "own
    brand" Tensor SoCs, where previously the various SoCs they used were
    only supported for 3 years.

    That's incorrect. The Tensor Pixel 6 and 7 got 5 years of support, the 7
    years of support came in with the Pixel 8 series.

    According to endoflife.date/pixel:

    Pixel 6:
    Released: (28 Oct 2021)
    Discontinued: (06 Oct 2022)
    End of Android updates: (01 Oct 2026)
    End of security updates: (01 Oct 2026)

    Pixel 7:
    Released: (13 Oct 2022)
    Discontinued: ?
    End of Android updates: (01 Oct 2027)
    End of security updates: (01 Oct 2027)

    Pixel 8:
    Released: (04 Oct 2023)
    Discontinued: ?
    End of Android updates: (01 Oct 2030)
    End of security updates: (01 Oct 2030)

    The 6 and 7 were originally only announced with 3 years of Android updates
    and 5 years of support, but Google decided it was easier to give them 5
    years of Android updates rather than have to maintain separate forks of
    older OSes. But it's likely the 6 will fall off the wagon in October.

    google have tended to slightly over-deliver on the 3 year support
    period, e.g. my P3 and P5a each received at least one "bonus" firmware upgrade outside the expected window. Maybe they will think that 7 years
    is long enough and won't require such "bonus" updates?

    I think it likely they don't release an extra Android update, eg if the
    support window ends 1 October, they might get a bonus security update in October/November but they won't get the Android N+1 update that people with newer phones get.

    It's possible they also do the thing Apple does which is release patches for the worst problems even after the official support window has closed. eg
    the 4a and 6a have battery issues. In theory the 4a fell out of support 5
    Aug 2023 but the most recent update is January 2025 - in part to reduce the fire risk from the batteries.

    Theo
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  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to comp.mobile.android on Tue Apr 14 12:38:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Theo wrote:

    That's incorrect. The Tensor Pixel 6 and 7 got 5 years of support, the 7 years of support came in with the Pixel 8 series.

    Yes, I was going to post a follow-up saying that ...

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Tue Apr 14 14:16:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    lol Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    Agreed. This is all uncharted territory for Samsung (and Google) as like
    you say they've never supported anything longer 4 years.

    We'll also find out if after 4 years it's only security updates or whether >> they'll still support new versions of Android.

    This is a good discussion to have on the Android newsgroup because nobody here will try to defend Google (or Samsung) to the death, no matter what.

    So we can talk about facts here (which can't be attempted on Apple ngs).

    The only reason is being your very poor understanding of "facts".

    To help get Apple users "over here", I let them know about this discussion.

    They'll be thrilled. I'm sure.

    It's clear NO OEM historically had "fully supported" phones for more than,
    at most, an average of ~5 years for iPhones & much less for Android phones.

    That's terrible language. You're mixing "more than" with "at most" and "average". No absolute number will fit all three.

    Being precise we do know that the *mean* support of Samsung S-series and
    Google Pixel phones is around three years. I can no longer find the details
    as you refused to post them here. For iphones the average is 5.5 years
    across every single iphone since v1 (nearly 20 years of data) or 6.5 years
    for the last 10 years.

    So 7 years beats Apple by a mile,

    Empirical data contradicts your statement.

    although the longest fully-supported
    iPhone (that reached EOL by today) was iPhone XS / XS Max at 6.99 years.

    And it's worth noting that they keep getting security updates for longer.
    The XS series have recieved all the updates more recent models have as
    well. Your definition of EOL is narrow and inconsistent. Arguably the XS
    models are still fully supported 7.5? years after release.

    Looking at the UK letters, it's clear the promised minimum timeline is:
    iPhone === Minimum 5 years from the first supply date
    Pixel === 7 years of "Security Updates, OS Updates & Feature Drops
    Galaxy S === 7 years of "Security Updates & Android OS Upgrades"

    Note that these are required to fulfill UK regulations. Whether they are applicable whether remains to be seen. Esp. for google and samsung.

    What this means, at the highest level, is Apple is promising pretty much
    what Apple has delivered in the past (on average) but Google & Samsung are stepping up, way, way, way over what they've delivered in the past.

    Google/Samsung are equalling Apple's admittedly stellar XS/Max support!
    This is good for everyone.

    The problem is defining exactly what a "security update" really means.

    I'm going to have to assume that "security updates" doesn't mean all bugs.
    a. It likely doesn't even mean all CVEs (but that's just a guess).
    b. It perhaps likely simply means CVEs of 8 to 10 (again, just a guess).

    Is there a definition that the three OEMs used for "security updates"?

    I'm focusing only on the current set of "new" post 2024 devices.
    a. iPhone 15 and up
    Minimum 5 years from the first supply date (Sept 22, 2023)
    I haven't found any Apple definition of the CVE-selection process.
    <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/06/apple-iphone-security-updates-five-year-minimum>
    Apple doesn't seem to have a "fade away" period at the end.
    Apple simply summarily drops full support when the next OS ships.

    b. Pixel 8 and up
    7 years of "Security Updates, OS Updates, and Feature Drops.
    Google defines this internally as addressing all issues listed
    in the Android Security Bulletin (ASB)
    <https://source.android.com/docs/automotive/security/mfg_guide>
    As for the fade-away problem...
    In year 7, they are technically still committed to the "Monthly
    Bulletin," but their hardware partners (modem/GPU vendors) often
    stop providing patches for the "bottom" layer of the phone,
    meaning Google can only patch the Android Framework (the software),
    not the Firmware (the hardware drivers).
    <https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/pixel>

    c. Galaxy S24 and up
    7 years of "Security Updates and Android OS Upgrades"
    Internally, Samsung divides updates into "Security Maintenance
    Releases" (SMRs). These include Google's patches + Samsung's
    own "SVE" (Samsung Vulnerabilities and Exposures).
    <https://www.sammyfans.com/2026/04/06/samsung-april-2026-security-patch-details/>
    Samsung seems to be the most transparent about the "fade away" problem.
    That's likely why all of us know how only Samsung works on fade away.
    Their policy explicitly moves phones from Monthly to Quarterly to
    Biannual updates as they age. By year 6 or 7, we are almost certainly
    only getting "Critical" (9-10) fixes twice a year.

    So, for fade away, "my" summary (open to correction) appears to be:
    iPhone === It's a cliff. You're either fully supported, or not.

    False. Which I have shown you multiple times.

    Pixel === Near the end, your monthly updates are no longer monthly
    Galaxy S === Near the end, your monthly updates are quarterly to bi-annual

    Then there's also project mainline in the mix. Is there truly any
    (objective) way to know whether an (android) phone is fully patched or not?

    As Carlos's thread highlights, there's massive inconsistencies between manufacturers.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Tue Apr 14 08:49:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Andy Burns wrote:
    Theo wrote:

    That's incorrect. The Tensor Pixel 6 and 7 got 5 years of support, the 7
    years of support came in with the Pixel 8 series.

    Yes, I was going to post a follow-up saying that ...

    Andy Burns wrote:
    Maria Sophia wrote:

    Pixel 8 and up

    I know you're not particularly interested in older devices, but the 7
    year support period was introduced once google moved to their "own
    brand" Tensor SoCs, where previously the various SoCs they used were
    only supported for 3 years.

    Hi Andy,

    Oh, it's not that I'm not interested, but that it's too complicated.

    If we bring in every Android device, we'll go nuts when it's hard enough
    just to understand what Apple/Google/Samsung promised the UK for new
    devices. Seriously. There are just too many variables to keep track of.

    That's why I feel we should at least nail down the S24 & Pixel 8 & up.
    If we can't even do that, then we have no business adding more variables.

    However, you bring up a good point though that each manufacturer controls different depths of the software and hardware stack that needs updating.

    Looking it up specifically for Google, apparently Google controls
    a. The Android OS (but it's also shared with OEMs)
    b. The services layer (Search, Maps, Gmail, Photos, Assistant, Play Store)
    c. SoC design direction (Tensor G3 is Google-designed at the architecture
    level, with custom TPU and ML subsystems)
    d. The AI/ML accelerators (Google's custom TPU in the Tensor chips)
    e. Security subsystem (Titan M2 security core is Google's own design)

    But even on Pixel 8 and Pixel 8 Pro, Google does not control:
    a. CPU cores (they use standard ARM Cortex cores X3/A715/A510)
    b. GPU (ARM Mali-G715, not Google-designed)
    c. Modem (based on Samsung's Exynos 5300 modem G5300i)
    d. Chip fabrication (the Tensor G3 is manufactured by Samsung on 4nm)
    e. Wireless stack (Wi-Fi/Bluetooth IP is not Google-designed)
    f. Most of the hardware supply chain (displays, memory, sensors, etc.)

    Probably Apple controls the most, Google next & then Samsung.

    7 years of "Security Updates, OS Updates, and Feature Drops.
    Google defines this internally as addressing all issues listed
    in the Android Security Bulletin (ASB)
    <https://source.android.com/docs/automotive/security/mfg_guide>
    As for the fade-away problem...
    In year 7, they are technically still committed to the "Monthly
    Bulletin," but their hardware partners (modem/GPU vendors) often
    stop providing patches for the "bottom" layer of the phone,
    meaning Google can only patch the Android Framework (the software),
    not the Firmware (the hardware drivers).
    <https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/pixel>

    google have tended to slightly over-deliver on the 3 year support
    period, e.g. my P3 and P5a each received at least one "bonus" firmware upgrade outside the expected window. Maybe they will think that 7 years
    is long enough and won't require such "bonus" updates?

    My Galaxy A series was security supported, as I recall, to 2025 from 2021.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Tue Apr 14 08:49:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Theo wrote:
    It's possible they also do the thing Apple does which is release patches for the worst problems even after the official support window has closed.

    Hi Theo,

    I won't argue at all with anything you said as it's all reasonable, but I
    do want to make the point very clear, especially since the Apple newsgroup posters think it's God like that Apple does what everyone else does, that every single OEM releases a patch years after support has officially ended.

    Most of the Apple posters misunderstand that releasing a patch for the most egregious bugs years after support ends is NOT in any way full support.

    Even after *years* of explaining this simple fact to the Apple newsgroup posters, only one person (-hh) has ever shown any understanding of that.

    They claim that I don't understand that, to them, Apple fixing a single bug years after official support ended, means, to them, that's FULL SUPPORT!!!

    To combat the God-like power of Apple's propaganda on those posters is why
    I bring up constantly that even WinXP had a security fix 18 years later.

    You get it.
    They will never get it.

    It's amazing, to me, how *different* the Apple Usenet posters are to normal people, so I just want to bring up this point for other Android posters.

    We don't defend Google or Samsung to the death, no matter what.
    Nor Windows or Linux (for those of us on Windows & Linux).

    They always claim because they don't understand facts, that I'm stupid.
    Which is kind'a funny actually, when you think about how they think.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AJL@noemail@none.com to comp.mobile.android on Tue Apr 14 18:14:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    On 4/14/26 7:49 AM, Maria Sophia wrote:

    each manufacturer controls
    different depths of the software and hardware stack that needs updating.

    Looking it up specifically for Google, apparently Google controls
    a. The Android OS (but it's also shared with OEMs)
    b. The services layer (Search, Maps, Gmail, Photos, Assistant, Play Store)
    c. SoC design direction (Tensor G3 is Google-designed at the architecture
    level, with custom TPU and ML subsystems)
    d. The AI/ML accelerators (Google's custom TPU in the Tensor chips)
    e. Security subsystem (Titan M2 security core is Google's own design)

    On this Amazon Fire HD10 tablet I'm posting with I'm not sure that
    side-loaded Google and the tablet OEM Amazon even know that the other's
    there. Amazon continues to update the tablet's Fire OS and both try to
    update the apps. I say 'try' because I had to turn auto app update on both
    off since the Amazon AppStore apps were older versions for the older
    Android forked Fire OS and the newer Google versions sometimes didn't work
    so well on it.

    On topic (kinda) Amazon says Fire HD10 generation 13 support is 4 years from
    purchase. Not all that great...


    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Tue Apr 14 22:04:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    AJL wrote:
    On this Amazon Fire HD10 tablet I'm posting with I'm not sure that
    side-loaded Google and the tablet OEM Amazon even know that the other's
    there. Amazon continues to update the tablet's Fire OS and both try to
    update the apps. I say 'try' because I had to turn auto app update on both
    off since the Amazon AppStore apps were older versions for the older
    Android forked Fire OS and the newer Google versions sometimes didn't work
    so well on it.

    On topic (kinda) Amazon says Fire HD10 generation 13 support is 4 years from
    purchase. Not all that great...

    Hi AJL,

    I think we'd all agree that Android "full" support is "not all that great"
    when we average in all the Android devices, including older devices.

    For Google/Samsung flagships, it's 7 years of full support.
    iPhone === Minimum 5 years from the first supply date
    Pixel === 7 years of "Security Updates, OS Updates & Feature Drops
    Galaxy S === 7 years of "Security Updates & Android OS Upgrades"

    But for most Android phones, it's nowhere near that good.
    Even the vaunted iPhone only averages 5 years of full support
    (which is a *lot* shorter than most Apple posters "claim" it is).

    But, due to the UK's requirements, it's getting better for everyone.

    But the UK only seems to have asked for their "security support" policy.

    If we "assume" Google and Samsung follow their own security policies,
    Google apparently defines security vulnerabilities by addressing all
    security issues listed in the Android Security Bulletin (ASB).

    Samsung defines them differently.

    Samsung divides updates into "Security Maintenance Releases" (SMRs).
    These include Google's patches + Samsung's own "SVE" (Samsung
    Vulnerabilities and Exposures).

    Apple throws the old OS off a cliff the instant the next release ships, but
    I haven't found any Apple definition of the CVE-selection process yet.

    This is not a lot of progress in details, but it's progress nonetheless.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Tue Apr 14 22:37:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Chris wrote:
    lol Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    Agreed. This is all uncharted territory for Samsung (and Google) as like >>> you say they've never supported anything longer 4 years.

    We'll also find out if after 4 years it's only security updates or whether >>> they'll still support new versions of Android.

    This is a good discussion to have on the Android newsgroup because nobody
    here will try to defend Google (or Samsung) to the death, no matter what.

    So we can talk about facts here (which can't be attempted on Apple ngs).

    The only reason is being your very poor understanding of "facts".

    To help get Apple users "over here", I let them know about this discussion.

    They'll be thrilled. I'm sure.

    It's clear NO OEM historically had "fully supported" phones for more than, >> at most, an average of ~5 years for iPhones & much less for Android phones.

    That's terrible language. You're mixing "more than" with "at most" and "average". No absolute number will fit all three.

    Being precise we do know that the *mean* support of Samsung S-series and Google Pixel phones is around three years. I can no longer find the details as you refused to post them here. For iphones the average is 5.5 years
    across every single iphone since v1 (nearly 20 years of data) or 6.5 years for the last 10 years.

    So 7 years beats Apple by a mile,

    Empirical data contradicts your statement.

    although the longest fully-supported
    iPhone (that reached EOL by today) was iPhone XS / XS Max at 6.99 years.

    And it's worth noting that they keep getting security updates for longer.
    The XS series have recieved all the updates more recent models have as
    well. Your definition of EOL is narrow and inconsistent. Arguably the XS models are still fully supported 7.5? years after release.

    Looking at the UK letters, it's clear the promised minimum timeline is:
    iPhone === Minimum 5 years from the first supply date
    Pixel === 7 years of "Security Updates, OS Updates & Feature Drops
    Galaxy S === 7 years of "Security Updates & Android OS Upgrades"

    Note that these are required to fulfill UK regulations. Whether they are applicable whether remains to be seen. Esp. for google and samsung.

    What this means, at the highest level, is Apple is promising pretty much
    what Apple has delivered in the past (on average) but Google & Samsung are >> stepping up, way, way, way over what they've delivered in the past.

    Google/Samsung are equalling Apple's admittedly stellar XS/Max support!
    This is good for everyone.

    The problem is defining exactly what a "security update" really means.

    I'm going to have to assume that "security updates" doesn't mean all bugs. >> a. It likely doesn't even mean all CVEs (but that's just a guess).
    b. It perhaps likely simply means CVEs of 8 to 10 (again, just a guess).

    Is there a definition that the three OEMs used for "security updates"?

    I'm focusing only on the current set of "new" post 2024 devices.
    a. iPhone 15 and up
    Minimum 5 years from the first supply date (Sept 22, 2023)
    I haven't found any Apple definition of the CVE-selection process.
    <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/06/apple-iphone-security-updates-five-year-minimum>
    Apple doesn't seem to have a "fade away" period at the end.
    Apple simply summarily drops full support when the next OS ships.

    b. Pixel 8 and up
    7 years of "Security Updates, OS Updates, and Feature Drops.
    Google defines this internally as addressing all issues listed
    in the Android Security Bulletin (ASB)
    <https://source.android.com/docs/automotive/security/mfg_guide>
    As for the fade-away problem...
    In year 7, they are technically still committed to the "Monthly
    Bulletin," but their hardware partners (modem/GPU vendors) often
    stop providing patches for the "bottom" layer of the phone,
    meaning Google can only patch the Android Framework (the software),
    not the Firmware (the hardware drivers).
    <https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/pixel>

    c. Galaxy S24 and up
    7 years of "Security Updates and Android OS Upgrades"
    Internally, Samsung divides updates into "Security Maintenance
    Releases" (SMRs). These include Google's patches + Samsung's
    own "SVE" (Samsung Vulnerabilities and Exposures).
    <https://www.sammyfans.com/2026/04/06/samsung-april-2026-security-patch-details/>
    Samsung seems to be the most transparent about the "fade away" problem. >> That's likely why all of us know how only Samsung works on fade away.
    Their policy explicitly moves phones from Monthly to Quarterly to
    Biannual updates as they age. By year 6 or 7, we are almost certainly >> only getting "Critical" (9-10) fixes twice a year.

    So, for fade away, "my" summary (open to correction) appears to be:
    iPhone === It's a cliff. You're either fully supported, or not.

    False. Which I have shown you multiple times.

    Pixel === Near the end, your monthly updates are no longer monthly
    Galaxy S === Near the end, your monthly updates are quarterly to bi-annual

    Then there's also project mainline in the mix. Is there truly any
    (objective) way to know whether an (android) phone is fully patched or not?

    As Carlos's thread highlights, there's massive inconsistencies between manufacturers.

    Hi Chris,

    I see you added the Apple newsgroup, so the tone of this article changes.

    Apple posters claim I don't know any facts because they hate those facts.
    They have no response to the facts other than to claim they're all wrong. Without ever providing what they claim to think are the correct facts.

    So be it.

    Since you're an Apple poster, I took the liberty of quoting everything
    since Apple posters tend to complain when normal Usenet snipping is used.

    Apologies to those on Android who must endure all that quoted text above.
    (If I snip appropriately, the Apple posters will scream bloody murder.)

    Your claim that I have a "poor understanding of facts" is just another
    attempt by you to defend your Apple God to the death, no matter what.

    As such I will ignore your insult, especially as just asking the question proves that I am sincerely working with the Android team for those facts.

    It's nearly impossible to work with the Apple team to garner facts, as witnessed by the fact nobody but -hh understands how Apple does support.

    I informed the Apple newsgroup way back in 2020, but only a single poster
    on the Apple newsgroups has shown any comprehension of those facts.

    The fact is Apple drops full support the instant the next release ships.
    This is Apple's own documented policy & it is backed up in the record. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
    <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/> <https://support.apple.com/en-ph/guide/security/sec87fc038c2/web> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224> <https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>
    etc.

    The question here, is how do Apple competitors handle full support.

    The Pixel isn't really an iPhone competitor but we included it below.
    iPhone 15(+) === Minimum 5 years from the first supply date
    Pixel 8(+) === 7 years of Security Updates, OS Updates & Feature Drops
    Galaxy S(+) === 7 years of Security Updates & Android OS Upgrades

    Where things get messy is how each vendor defines "security support".

    Google uses the Android Security Bulletin; Samsung layers SMRs and SVEs.
    If Apple publishes a CVE-selection policy, I need your help to find it.
    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/100100>

    Google does not publish a narrative policy but the bulletin structure is
    the policy. .

    Specifically, for the Pixel's 7 years of security support...
    1. Pixel updates include all issues listed in the corresponding
    month's Android Security Bulletin.
    2. Google also includes Pixel-specific patches not in the ASB,
    grouped by subsystem (modem, baseband, bootloader, GPU, etc.).
    3. Each CVE entry includes severity, type, subsystem, and references
    to AOSP changes when applicable .
    <https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/pixel/2026/2026-03-01>

    Samsung's process is more complex than Google's selection policy.

    Specifically for the S24's 7 years of security support...
    1. Samsung updates all CVEs from the Android Security Bulletin
    2. Samsung-specific SVEs (Knox, One UI, Exynos, Samsung services)
    3. Plus chipset-vendor CVEs when applicable
    All prioritized by severity, with Critical and High addressed first. https://docs.samsungknox.com/admin/fundamentals/whitepaper/samsung-knox-mobile-security/security-operations/vulnerability-reporting/

    Apple's policy is the simplest of all since it doesn't exist.
    In fact, Apple's policy is literally to not have a policy!
    "Apple doesn't disclose, discuss, or confirm security issues
    until an investigation has occurred and patches or releases
    are generally available." <https://support.apple.com/en-us/100100>

    Apple publishes lists of CVEs fixed in each update, but never the criteria
    for choosing them. As such Apple is the only major vendor that refuses to provide a transparent, standardized commitment to which CVEs they will
    patch on older versions.

    Note: Apple acknowledges in their own Platform Security Guide that "not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions." <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/web>

    This is Apple throwing the previous iOS version off the cliff in support.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob Martin@bob.martin@excite.com to comp.mobile.android on Wed Apr 15 05:14:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    On 14 Apr 2026 at 11:26:53, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
    Maria Sophia wrote:

    Pixel 8 and up

    I know you're not particularly interested in older devices, but the 7
    year support period was introduced once google moved to their "own
    brand" Tensor SoCs, where previously the various SoCs they used were
    only supported for 3 years.

    That's incorrect. The Tensor Pixel 6 and 7 got 5 years of support, the 7 years of support came in with the Pixel 8 series.

    According to endoflife.date/pixel:

    Pixel 6:
    Released: (28 Oct 2021)
    Discontinued: (06 Oct 2022)
    End of Android updates: (01 Oct 2026)
    End of security updates: (01 Oct 2026)

    Pixel 7:
    Released: (13 Oct 2022)
    Discontinued: ?
    End of Android updates: (01 Oct 2027)
    End of security updates: (01 Oct 2027)

    My Pixel 7 had a security update last month, but the last Android update
    was last year and the phone says it won't get any more.

    Pixel 8:
    Released: (04 Oct 2023)
    Discontinued: ?
    End of Android updates: (01 Oct 2030)
    End of security updates: (01 Oct 2030)

    The 6 and 7 were originally only announced with 3 years of Android updates and 5 years of support, but Google decided it was easier to give them 5
    years of Android updates rather than have to maintain separate forks of
    older OSes. But it's likely the 6 will fall off the wagon in October.

    google have tended to slightly over-deliver on the 3 year support
    period, e.g. my P3 and P5a each received at least one "bonus" firmware
    upgrade outside the expected window. Maybe they will think that 7 years
    is long enough and won't require such "bonus" updates?

    I think it likely they don't release an extra Android update, eg if the support window ends 1 October, they might get a bonus security update in October/November but they won't get the Android N+1 update that people with newer phones get.

    It's possible they also do the thing Apple does which is release patches for the worst problems even after the official support window has closed. eg
    the 4a and 6a have battery issues. In theory the 4a fell out of support 5 Aug 2023 but the most recent update is January 2025 - in part to reduce the fire risk from the batteries.

    Theo
    .

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to comp.mobile.android on Wed Apr 15 07:08:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Bob Martin wrote:

    My Pixel 7 had a security update last month, but the last Android update
    was last year and the phone says it won't get any more.

    It should get v17 this year, and likely v18 next year.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to comp.mobile.android on Wed Apr 15 11:49:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Theo wrote:
    It's possible they also do the thing Apple does which is release patches for
    the worst problems even after the official support window has closed.

    Hi Theo,

    I won't argue at all with anything you said as it's all reasonable, but I
    do want to make the point very clear, especially since the Apple newsgroup posters think it's God like that Apple does what everyone else does, that every single OEM releases a patch years after support has officially ended.

    I'm not sure that's true. Those landfill Android phones with a short
    length of support often don't get later updates - the vendor just abandons
    them and moves on. For the Aliexpress junk they may not even get any
    post-sale updates.

    Most of the Apple posters misunderstand that releasing a patch for the most egregious bugs years after support ends is NOT in any way full support.

    That's correct, but you have to measure the time in which they do get OS version updates, which is typically longer than most non-flagship Androids: https://endoflife.date/iphone

    iOS 26 is the most recent, and that goes back to the iPhone 11 series (2019) that were released in 2019. Therefore they de-facto have at least 6.5 years
    of support, and probably 7 until a likely iOS 27 release in September. The
    XS and XR series (2018) are on the prior iOS 18 but still getting security patches (perhaps not all of them), which could be viewed as 'extended
    support', but still 7 years of OS updates. Before those, the 8 series and X (2017) lasted in official support until March 2025, so that's 7.5 years of support - or if you count full OS versions it's 2017 (release) to 2023 (iOS
    17, which they didn't get).

    I'm sure you can do the sums for previous generations, but I think it's fair
    to assume based on evidence that iPhones get at least 6 years of version updates and maybe a bit more of security updates beyond then.

    That stands up pretty well to Android's history. As ever, watch what they
    do not what they say. For Android, the history isn't great - it remains to
    be seen whether and how the promises will be delivered.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Wed Apr 15 16:11:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    lol Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    Agreed. This is all uncharted territory for Samsung (and Google) as like >>>> you say they've never supported anything longer 4 years.

    We'll also find out if after 4 years it's only security updates or whether >>>> they'll still support new versions of Android.

    This is a good discussion to have on the Android newsgroup because nobody >>> here will try to defend Google (or Samsung) to the death, no matter what. >>>
    So we can talk about facts here (which can't be attempted on Apple ngs).

    The only reason is being your very poor understanding of "facts".

    To help get Apple users "over here", I let them know about this discussion. >>
    They'll be thrilled. I'm sure.

    It's clear NO OEM historically had "fully supported" phones for more than, >>> at most, an average of ~5 years for iPhones & much less for Android phones.

    That's terrible language. You're mixing "more than" with "at most" and
    "average". No absolute number will fit all three.

    Being precise we do know that the *mean* support of Samsung S-series and
    Google Pixel phones is around three years. I can no longer find the details >> as you refused to post them here. For iphones the average is 5.5 years
    across every single iphone since v1 (nearly 20 years of data) or 6.5 years >> for the last 10 years.

    So 7 years beats Apple by a mile,

    Empirical data contradicts your statement.

    although the longest fully-supported
    iPhone (that reached EOL by today) was iPhone XS / XS Max at 6.99 years.

    And it's worth noting that they keep getting security updates for longer.
    The XS series have recieved all the updates more recent models have as
    well. Your definition of EOL is narrow and inconsistent. Arguably the XS
    models are still fully supported 7.5 years after release.

    <snip>


    So, for fade away, "my" summary (open to correction) appears to be:
    iPhone === It's a cliff. You're either fully supported, or not.

    False. Which I have shown you multiple times.

    Pixel === Near the end, your monthly updates are no longer monthly
    Galaxy S === Near the end, your monthly updates are quarterly to bi-annual >>
    Then there's also project mainline in the mix. Is there truly any
    (objective) way to know whether an (android) phone is fully patched or not? >>
    As Carlos's thread highlights, there's massive inconsistencies between
    manufacturers.

    Hi Chris,

    I see you added the Apple newsgroup, so the tone of this article changes.

    That's purely on you. There's no need to be any different in any newsgroup. What's immediately obvious is your sneering tone.

    <snip>

    The fact is Apple drops full support the instant the next release ships.

    Factually incorrect. Apple supports two iOS version for ~3 months while
    people choose to upgrade. People do upgrade because almost all models are supported between major versions. After about 6/7 years one or two models
    are dropped.

    This is Apple's own documented policy & it is backed up in the record. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
    <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/> <https://support.apple.com/en-ph/guide/security/sec87fc038c2/web> <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224> <https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>
    etc.

    Again the data contradicts you.
    https://imgshare.cc/a08v04ce

    The question here, is how do Apple competitors handle full support.

    The Pixel isn't really an iPhone competitor but we included it below.
    iPhone 15(+) === Minimum 5 years from the first supply date
    Pixel 8(+) === 7 years of Security Updates, OS Updates & Feature Drops
    Galaxy S(+) === 7 years of Security Updates & Android OS Upgrades

    Where things get messy is how each vendor defines "security support".

    Google uses the Android Security Bulletin; Samsung layers SMRs and SVEs.
    If Apple publishes a CVE-selection policy, I need your help to find it.
    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/100100>

    Google does not publish a narrative policy but the bulletin structure is
    the policy. .

    Specifically, for the Pixel's 7 years of security support...
    1. Pixel updates include all issues listed in the corresponding
    month's Android Security Bulletin.
    2. Google also includes Pixel-specific patches not in the ASB,
    grouped by subsystem (modem, baseband, bootloader, GPU, etc.).
    3. Each CVE entry includes severity, type, subsystem, and references
    to AOSP changes when applicable .
    <https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/pixel/2026/2026-03-01>

    Samsung's process is more complex than Google's selection policy.

    Specifically for the S24's 7 years of security support...
    1. Samsung updates all CVEs from the Android Security Bulletin
    2. Samsung-specific SVEs (Knox, One UI, Exynos, Samsung services)
    3. Plus chipset-vendor CVEs when applicable
    All prioritized by severity, with Critical and High addressed first. https://docs.samsungknox.com/admin/fundamentals/whitepaper/samsung-knox-mobile-security/security-operations/vulnerability-reporting/

    Apple's policy is the simplest of all since it doesn't exist.
    In fact, Apple's policy is literally to not have a policy!
    "Apple doesn't disclose, discuss, or confirm security issues
    until an investigation has occurred and patches or releases
    are generally available." <https://support.apple.com/en-us/100100>

    Apple publishes lists of CVEs fixed in each update, but never the criteria for choosing them. As such Apple is the only major vendor that refuses to provide a transparent, standardized commitment to which CVEs they will
    patch on older versions.

    Note: Apple acknowledges in their own Platform Security Guide that "not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions." <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/web>

    You missed the whole quote:
    "
    Note: Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any
    current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 26, iOS 26
    and so on), not all known security issues are addressed in previous
    versions (for example, macOS 15, iOS 18 and so on).
    "

    This is Apple throwing the previous iOS version off the cliff in support.

    No it isn't and goes against the empirical data, which I share again. https://imgshare.cc/a08v04ce



    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Wed Apr 15 11:42:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Theo wrote:
    I won't argue at all with anything you said as it's all reasonable, but I
    do want to make the point very clear, especially since the Apple newsgroup >> posters think it's God like that Apple does what everyone else does, that >> every single OEM releases a patch years after support has officially ended.

    I'm not sure that's true. Those landfill Android phones with a short
    length of support often don't get later updates - the vendor just abandons them and moves on. For the Aliexpress junk they may not even get any post-sale updates.

    Hi Theo,
    I never disagree with logically sensible facts, so I agree that a $39.99 Android probably doesn't even get that legacy patch five years later.

    But my point was simply that a lot of people (particularly on the Apple newsgroups, due to bias and propaganda) "think" a patch is all patches.

    It's not.
    If an OEM applies "a patch" years after support ended, that's just a patch.

    It's not full support.
    I give the example of WinXP which got "a patch" 18 years after release.

    Most of the Apple posters misunderstand that releasing a patch for the most >> egregious bugs years after support ends is NOT in any way full support.

    That's correct, but you have to measure the time in which they do get OS version updates, which is typically longer than most non-flagship Androids: https://endoflife.date/iphone


    Rest assured there is a thread authored by me for each and every iPhone
    ever released in Apple's history, where I know EXACTLY how long support is.

    It's nowhere near what journalists claim.
    Why not?

    Because they don't understand how Apple supports releases.
    The instant a major release ships, Apple throws full support away.

    iOS 26 is the most recent, and that goes back to the iPhone 11 series (2019) that were released in 2019. Therefore they de-facto have at least 6.5 years of support, and probably 7 until a likely iOS 27 release in September. The XS and XR series (2018) are on the prior iOS 18 but still getting security patches (perhaps not all of them), which could be viewed as 'extended support', but still 7 years of OS updates.

    Stop it. Just stop it. I spent my energy explaining that (almost) every OEM releases a random patch. Apple isn't special in that regard. Stop it.

    People believe too much of the Apple propaganda.

    (Almost) everyone releases a random patch every once in a while but only
    when talking about Apple is that considered "extended support".

    Please do not propagate the bullshit.
    I really mean it.

    There's too much bullshit that people spew about Apple 'support', most of
    which is based on Apple's (admittedly stellar) marketing propaganda.

    Again, we have a fact-based thread, one for EVERY SINGLE IPHONE that has reached EOL for full support on the Apple newsgroup.

    No amount of bullshit is going to turn an average of 5 years into more.

    Before those, the 8 series and X
    (2017) lasted in official support until March 2025, so that's 7.5 years of support - or if you count full OS versions it's 2017 (release) to 2023 (iOS 17, which they didn't get).

    Theo. I like you. But I'm adamant. Stop it with the bullshit. Just stop it. Saunter over to the Apple newsgroup and *look* at the threads on this.

    There is an individual thread for each iPhone ever released by Apple.
    The average is 5 years. The longest is 6.99 years. The shortest 2.37 years.

    No amount of bullshit will change those numbers, Theo.
    Please. Seriously. Please do not spout bullshit about Apple support.

    I'm sure you can do the sums for previous generations, but I think it's fair to assume based on evidence that iPhones get at least 6 years of version updates and maybe a bit more of security updates beyond then.

    The average is 5 years.

    If we cherry pick, as Chris did, we can get a longer average for sure.

    But the *longest* you can get is 6.99 years since that's the longest any
    iPhone has ever been fully supported in Apple's entire history, Theo.

    That stands up pretty well to Android's history. As ever, watch what they
    do not what they say. For Android, the history isn't great - it remains to be seen whether and how the promises will be delivered.

    Up until the UK forced their hands, Samsung/Google had a lousy history on
    the length of "full support", but like everything, it's improving fast.

    The Pixel isn't really an iPhone competitor but we included it below.
    iPhone 15(+) === Minimum 5 years from the first supply date
    Pixel 8(+) === 7 years of Security Updates, OS Updates & Feature Drops
    Galaxy S(+) === 7 years of Security Updates & Android OS Upgrades

    Most people believe all of the Apple propaganda. Even journalists do.
    Likely more so than others perhaps, because they thrive on ad revenue.

    I've only encountered THREE journalists who UNDERSTOOD Apple's policy.
    <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
    <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
    <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>

    PS I apologize, Theo, for being brutal, but I'm sick of the Apple BS.
    I've done the math. I posted it all to the Apple newsgroups.
    They've had their chance to "refute" it and they can't.
    Because it's correct.

    What they can do is cherry pick and get a different average.
    That's the best they can do though.

    Without cherry picking, the iPhone full support average is 5 years.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Wed Apr 15 12:07:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia wrote:
    Rest assured there is a thread authored by me for each and every iPhone
    ever released in Apple's history, where I know EXACTLY how long support is.

    It's nowhere near what journalists claim.
    Why not?

    Because they don't understand how Apple supports releases.
    The instant a major release ships, Apple throws full support away.

    Windows XP received a patch for the WannaCry (EternalBlue) exploit in
    2017-six years after its official "End of Life" and 16 years after release.

    The "Bullshit" Logic: According to the same logic used by endoflife.date, Windows XP was "Supported" until 2017.

    Just to discuss the website <https://endoflife.date/iphone>

    It is a community-maintained aggregator. Their definition of EOL (End of
    Life) appears (perhaps?) to refer to the date a device stops receiving any official software updates from the manufacturer.

    It does not distinguish between Full Support (the latest OS) and Partial/Best-Effort Support (legacy security patches).

    By that definition, WinXP's EOL was 18 years after it first shipped.
    Which is complete bullshit when we care about "FULL" support.

    Apple, Google & Samsung define what "FULL" support is in different ways.

    To put it simply:
    a. Apple drops full support the instant the next release ships
    but Apple doesn't ever define what CVEs go into full support
    ahead of time. So we'd have to look to see if EVERY CVE is patched.
    Most likely Apple patches from 8-10 serverity CVEs, but I have NOT
    researched to that level of detail what level of CVE is "FULL" support.
    b. Google actually publishes the list in the ASB that they will patch.
    c. Samsung uses that, & Samsung has their own list that they publish.

    Back to the bogus https://endoflife.date/iphone web site.
    What they appear to be claiming is "any" patch is full support.

    They don't "say" that, but again and again I have to bring up that Windows
    XP got "a patch" almost 18 years after it shipped, but nobody sane would
    claim that Windows XP end of life was on that date of that last patch.

    Hence, I declare that web site to be almost complete bullshit.
    I'm sure it's accurate for the "last patch" ever given to a device.

    But "the last patch ever" is NOT what this thread is about.

    Specifically for that web site...
    A. iPhone 11 and newer (iPhone 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, SE 2nd/3rd gen)
    These can run iOS 26.
    They receive 100% of the patches Apple develops for that cycle.

    Regarding: <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/web>
    "... Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 26, iOS 26, and so on),
    not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions
    (for example, macOS 15, iOS 18, and so on)"

    B. iPhone XS, iPhone XR, iPhone X, iPhone 8, iPhone 7, iPhone 6s,
    iPhone SE (1st gen)
    These cannot run iOS 26.
    They are stuck on older versions (iOS 18, 16, or 15).

    Only the iPhones in group A above are "fully supported".
    This is a fact.

    It's not bullshit.
    I'm sick and tired of the bullshit.

    I apologize for coming down hard on that bullshit web site.
    One out of 10 million people know what I just wrote about Apple support.

    Almost zero journalists know what this post tells us.
    <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
    <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
    <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
    .
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Wed Apr 15 12:39:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Chris wrote:
    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    lol Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    Agreed. This is all uncharted territory for Samsung (and Google) as like >>>>> you say they've never supported anything longer 4 years.

    We'll also find out if after 4 years it's only security updates or whether
    they'll still support new versions of Android.

    This is a good discussion to have on the Android newsgroup because nobody >>>> here will try to defend Google (or Samsung) to the death, no matter what. >>>>
    So we can talk about facts here (which can't be attempted on Apple ngs). >>>
    The only reason is being your very poor understanding of "facts".

    To help get Apple users "over here", I let them know about this discussion.

    They'll be thrilled. I'm sure.

    It's clear NO OEM historically had "fully supported" phones for more than, >>>> at most, an average of ~5 years for iPhones & much less for Android phones.

    That's terrible language. You're mixing "more than" with "at most" and
    "average". No absolute number will fit all three.

    Being precise we do know that the *mean* support of Samsung S-series and >>> Google Pixel phones is around three years. I can no longer find the details >>> as you refused to post them here. For iphones the average is 5.5 years
    across every single iphone since v1 (nearly 20 years of data) or 6.5 years >>> for the last 10 years.

    So 7 years beats Apple by a mile,

    Empirical data contradicts your statement.

    although the longest fully-supported
    iPhone (that reached EOL by today) was iPhone XS / XS Max at 6.99 years. >>>
    And it's worth noting that they keep getting security updates for longer. >>> The XS series have recieved all the updates more recent models have as
    well. Your definition of EOL is narrow and inconsistent. Arguably the XS >>> models are still fully supported 7.5 years after release.

    <snip>


    So, for fade away, "my" summary (open to correction) appears to be:
    iPhone === It's a cliff. You're either fully supported, or not.

    False. Which I have shown you multiple times.

    Pixel === Near the end, your monthly updates are no longer monthly
    Galaxy S === Near the end, your monthly updates are quarterly to bi-annual >>>
    Then there's also project mainline in the mix. Is there truly any
    (objective) way to know whether an (android) phone is fully patched or not? >>>
    As Carlos's thread highlights, there's massive inconsistencies between
    manufacturers.

    Hi Chris,

    I see you added the Apple newsgroup, so the tone of this article changes.

    That's purely on you. There's no need to be any different in any newsgroup. What's immediately obvious is your sneering tone.

    <snip>

    The fact is Apple drops full support the instant the next release ships.

    Factually incorrect. Apple supports two iOS version for ~3 months while people choose to upgrade. People do upgrade because almost all models are supported between major versions. After about 6/7 years one or two models
    are dropped.

    This is Apple's own documented policy & it is backed up in the record.
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
    <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
    <https://support.apple.com/en-ph/guide/security/sec87fc038c2/web>
    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>
    <https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>
    etc.

    Again the data contradicts you.
    https://imgshare.cc/a08v04ce

    The question here, is how do Apple competitors handle full support.

    The Pixel isn't really an iPhone competitor but we included it below.
    iPhone 15(+) === Minimum 5 years from the first supply date
    Pixel 8(+) === 7 years of Security Updates, OS Updates & Feature Drops
    Galaxy S(+) === 7 years of Security Updates & Android OS Upgrades

    Where things get messy is how each vendor defines "security support".

    Google uses the Android Security Bulletin; Samsung layers SMRs and SVEs.
    If Apple publishes a CVE-selection policy, I need your help to find it.
    <https://support.apple.com/en-us/100100>

    Google does not publish a narrative policy but the bulletin structure is
    the policy. .

    Specifically, for the Pixel's 7 years of security support...
    1. Pixel updates include all issues listed in the corresponding
    month's Android Security Bulletin.
    2. Google also includes Pixel-specific patches not in the ASB,
    grouped by subsystem (modem, baseband, bootloader, GPU, etc.).
    3. Each CVE entry includes severity, type, subsystem, and references
    to AOSP changes when applicable .
    <https://source.android.com/docs/security/bulletin/pixel/2026/2026-03-01> >>
    Samsung's process is more complex than Google's selection policy.

    Specifically for the S24's 7 years of security support...
    1. Samsung updates all CVEs from the Android Security Bulletin
    2. Samsung-specific SVEs (Knox, One UI, Exynos, Samsung services)
    3. Plus chipset-vendor CVEs when applicable
    All prioritized by severity, with Critical and High addressed first.
    https://docs.samsungknox.com/admin/fundamentals/whitepaper/samsung-knox-mobile-security/security-operations/vulnerability-reporting/

    Apple's policy is the simplest of all since it doesn't exist.
    In fact, Apple's policy is literally to not have a policy!
    "Apple doesn't disclose, discuss, or confirm security issues
    until an investigation has occurred and patches or releases
    are generally available." <https://support.apple.com/en-us/100100>

    Apple publishes lists of CVEs fixed in each update, but never the criteria >> for choosing them. As such Apple is the only major vendor that refuses to
    provide a transparent, standardized commitment to which CVEs they will
    patch on older versions.

    Note: Apple acknowledges in their own Platform Security Guide that "not all >> known security issues are addressed in previous versions."
    <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/web>

    You missed the whole quote:
    "
    Note: Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any
    current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 26, iOS 26
    and so on), not all known security issues are addressed in previous
    versions (for example, macOS 15, iOS 18 and so on).
    "

    This is Apple throwing the previous iOS version off the cliff in support.

    No it isn't and goes against the empirical data, which I share again. https://imgshare.cc/a08v04ce

    Hi Chris,

    This post goes to the Apple newsgroup so my tone instantly must change.

    Again, I apologize to Android posters that we have to deviate from normal Usenet etiquette to copy *all* the quoted text (which is absurd), but if I don't, I get accused of all sorts of horrid evils on the Apple newsgroups.

    Windows XP release date is October 25, 2001
    Windows XP Official End of Support (EOS) April 8, 2014
    Even so, Microsoft issued out-of-band patches after EOS, most notably
    on May 12, 2017, Microsoft patched WannaCry / EternalBlue (KB4012598).
    Also on June 13, 2017 there were additional nation-state exploit patches.
    Total lifespan to last patch: 15 years, 7.5 months

    But wait, there's more:
    The XP codebase received security patches until April 2019 when
    Microsoft released KB4500331 to patch a critical remote code execution vulnerability (BlueKeep) in the Windows XP SP3, Windows XP Professional x64 Edition, and the Embedded versions.

    So that's the 12 years 5 months for normal XP consumers but 17-1/2 years
    for the XP kernel,.

    The reality is that the DEFINITION of full support varies between OEMs.
    The Pixel isn't really an iPhone competitor, but we include it for Andy. :)
    a. Apple drops full support the instant the next release ships
    but Apple doesn't ever define what CVEs go into full support
    ahead of time. So we'd have to look to see if EVERY CVE is patched.
    Most likely Apple patches from 8-10 severity CVEs, but I have NOT
    researched to that level of detail what level of CVE is "FULL" support.
    b. Google actually publishes the list in the ASB that they will patch.
    But Google's monthly support patches seem to slow down in later years
    but the actual list of CVEs fixed remains those that are in the ASB.
    c. Samsung uses the ASB + Samsung has further lists that they publish.
    Their support also "slows down" as the phone ages, but it's still
    inclusive of all the vulnerabilities listed in their published lists.

    The Pixel isn't really an iPhone competitor but we included it below.
    iPhone 15(+) === Minimum 5 years from the first supply date
    Pixel 8(+) === 7 years of Security Updates, OS Updates & Feature Drops
    Galaxy S(+) === 7 years of Security Updates & Android OS Upgrades

    No amount of Apple propaganda is going to change those facts.
    If you have relevant additional facts, please present them.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob Martin@bob.martin@excite.com to comp.mobile.android on Thu Apr 16 04:48:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    On 15 Apr 2026 at 06:08:41, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
    Bob Martin wrote:

    My Pixel 7 had a security update last month, but the last Android update
    was last year and the phone says it won't get any more.

    It should get v17 this year, and likely v18 next year.

    That would be good!

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to comp.mobile.android on Thu Apr 16 20:33:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Theo wrote:


    Most of the Apple posters misunderstand that releasing a patch for the most >>> egregious bugs years after support ends is NOT in any way full support.

    That's correct, but you have to measure the time in which they do get OS
    version updates, which is typically longer than most non-flagship Androids: >> https://endoflife.date/iphone


    Rest assured there is a thread authored by me for each and every iPhone
    ever released in Apple's history, where I know EXACTLY how long support is.

    Where your data and maths needed correcting. More than once.

    It's nowhere near what journalists claim.
    Why not?

    Because they don't understand how Apple supports releases.
    The instant a major release ships, Apple throws full support away.

    False.

    iOS 26 is the most recent, and that goes back to the iPhone 11 series (2019) >> that were released in 2019. Therefore they de-facto have at least 6.5 years >> of support, and probably 7 until a likely iOS 27 release in September. The >> XS and XR series (2018) are on the prior iOS 18 but still getting security >> patches (perhaps not all of them), which could be viewed as 'extended
    support', but still 7 years of OS updates.

    Stop it. Just stop it. I spent my energy explaining that (almost) every OEM releases a random patch. Apple isn't special in that regard. Stop it.

    People believe too much of the Apple propaganda.

    (Almost) everyone releases a random patch every once in a while but only
    when talking about Apple is that considered "extended support".

    Please do not propagate the bullshit.
    I really mean it.

    There's too much bullshit that people spew about Apple 'support', most of which is based on Apple's (admittedly stellar) marketing propaganda.

    Again, we have a fact-based thread, one for EVERY SINGLE IPHONE that has reached EOL for full support on the Apple newsgroup.

    No amount of bullshit is going to turn an average of 5 years into more.

    Before those, the 8 series and X
    (2017) lasted in official support until March 2025, so that's 7.5 years of >> support - or if you count full OS versions it's 2017 (release) to 2023 (iOS >> 17, which they didn't get).

    Theo. I like you. But I'm adamant. Stop it with the bullshit. Just stop it. Saunter over to the Apple newsgroup and *look* at the threads on this.

    There is an individual thread for each iPhone ever released by Apple.
    The average is 5 years.

    Incorrect. The average is 5.5 years (over nearly 20 years). Over the last decade it is 6.5 years.

    The longest is 6.99 years.

    So far. The SE and 11 may yet get more.


    PS I apologize, Theo, for being brutal, but I'm sick of the Apple BS.
    I've done the math.

    Badly.

    I posted it all to the Apple newsgroups.
    They've had their chance to "refute" it and they can't.
    Because it's correct.

    We did and it wasn't.



    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Thu Apr 16 15:48:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Chris wrote:
    The instant a major release ships, Apple throws full support away.

    False.

    Read this before you deny Apple's own documented policy on full support. <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to comp.mobile.android on Fri Apr 17 07:05:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    The instant a major release ships, Apple throws full support away.

    False.

    Read this before you deny Apple's own documented policy on full support. <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/

    I deny nothing. I simply quote the full policy and not narrowly quote it to satisfy my dogma.

    Comment on this before making any more claims about "cliff edge" support. https://imgshare.cc/a08v04ce

    You always deny empirical fact and prefer other people's opinions.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to comp.mobile.android on Fri Apr 17 13:37:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    The instant a major release ships, Apple throws full support away.

    False.

    Read this before you deny Apple's own documented policy on full support. <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/

    Exactly, which is why you've gone after a red herring.

    Apple only fully support the latest version of iOS. Therefore, if an iPhone
    is running the latest iOS, it's fully patched.

    Anything after that is merely a courtesy to folks who really should buy a
    new phone, to reduce the harm they're exposed to until they get a
    replacement. It's not full patching, but it's better than nothing.

    But forget about that, just focus on which phones get the latest iOS. That information is well documented, and it's typically 5-7 years after
    the phone was released until it was dropped. There is a long history of
    that going back to older iPhone models, eg:

    5: released 21 Sep 2012, last iOS=10, iOS 11 released 19 Sep 2017; 5 years
    5S: released 20 Sep 2013, last iOS=12, iOS 13 released 19 Sep 2019; 6 years
    6: released 25 Sep 2014, last iOS=12, iOS 13 released 19 Sep 2019; 5 years
    6S: released 25 Sep 2015, last iOS=15, iOS 16 released 12 Sep 2022; 7 years
    7: released 16 Sep 2016, last iOS=15, iOS 16 released 12 Sep 2022; 6 years
    8: released 22 Sep 2017, last iOS=16, iOS 17 released 18 Sep 2023; 6 years
    XS: released 21 Sep 2018, last iOS=18, iOS 26 released 15 Sep 2025; 7 years
    11: released 20 Sep 2019, last iOS=26, still in support; 7+ years

    In terms of actual shipped phones, 6+ years is pretty hard to beat in
    Android world. I can't think of any phone which actually got 6 years of monthly security releases, let alone Android updates.

    There are recent promises of course, but we'll have to wait another few
    years to see if they come true.

    If you disagree, *show us the data*. Which iPhones stopped getting iOS
    updates in less than 5 years?

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Fri Apr 17 12:03:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Chris wrote:
    You always deny empirical fact and prefer other people's opinions.

    Hi Chris,

    On an Apple newsgroup, denying all facts works but not here, on Android.

    *All of us have discussed the empirical facts in this very thread*

    Which of those empirical facts are you claiming don't exist in this thread?
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to comp.mobile.android on Fri Apr 17 12:27:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Theo wrote:
    Apple only fully support the latest version of iOS. Therefore, if an iPhone is running the latest iOS, it's fully patched.

    Hi Theo,

    I never disagree with any logically sensible statement of fact.

    Nobody on the Android newsgroup has disagreed that Apple only fully patches only the latest release; it's only on the Apple newsgroup they disagree.

    Anything after that is merely a courtesy to folks who really should buy a
    new phone, to reduce the harm they're exposed to until they get a replacement. It's not full patching, but it's better than nothing.

    Again, nobody disagrees. I heartily agree with you on this statement also.
    Any patch after end of full support, is, in a word, a "courtesy" patch.

    Much like the courtesy support of 17-1/2 years was for Windows XP:
    a. Windows XP release date is on or about October 25, 2001
    b. Microsoft released the (BlueKeep) KB4500331 on May 14, 2019
    c. That's 17 years, 6 months and 19 days of "support".

    But forget about that, just focus on which phones get the latest iOS. That information is well documented, and it's typically 5-7 years after
    the phone was released until it was dropped.

    For some strange reason, most people believe the (admittedly brilliant) propaganda, but we already proved, beyond any doubt, what the average is.

    We have a dedicated thread, one for each iPhone ever sold.
    a. Longest full iOS support: 6.99 years (iPhone XS / XS Max)
    b. Shortest full iOS support: 2.37 years (iPhone 3G)
    c. Average full iOS support: 5.10 years (over 20 models)

    There is a long history of
    that going back to older iPhone models, eg:

    5: released 21 Sep 2012, last iOS=10, iOS 11 released 19 Sep 2017; 5 years 5S: released 20 Sep 2013, last iOS=12, iOS 13 released 19 Sep 2019; 6 years 6: released 25 Sep 2014, last iOS=12, iOS 13 released 19 Sep 2019; 5 years 6S: released 25 Sep 2015, last iOS=15, iOS 16 released 12 Sep 2022; 7 years 7: released 16 Sep 2016, last iOS=15, iOS 16 released 12 Sep 2022; 6 years
    8: released 22 Sep 2017, last iOS=16, iOS 17 released 18 Sep 2023; 6 years XS: released 21 Sep 2018, last iOS=18, iOS 26 released 15 Sep 2025; 7 years 11: released 20 Sep 2019, last iOS=26, still in support; 7+ years

    Your numbers are dead wrong, but you don't say how you derived them.
    So, like all marketing propaganda, you can come up with any value you want.

    We have the correct numbers in the Apple newsgroup for each iPhone sold.
    a. Longest full iOS support: 6.99 years (iPhone XS / XS Max)
    b. Shortest full iOS support: 2.37 years (iPhone 3G)
    c. Average full iOS support: 5.10 years (over 20 models)

    In terms of actual shipped phones, 6+ years is pretty hard to beat in
    Android world. I can't think of any phone which actually got 6 years of monthly security releases, let alone Android updates.

    First off, it's not 6+ on average, it's 5 years, on average, but even so,
    my free Galaxy A32-5G was only fully supported for 4 years, so the iPhone average is a full year longer than that of my el-cheapo free Android.

    Bear in mind, I don't defend any mothership to the death, no matter what.
    I simply state the facts.

    And the facts are:
    a. Longest full iOS support: 6.99 years (iPhone XS / XS Max)
    b. Shortest full iOS support: 2.37 years (iPhone 3G)
    c. Average full iOS support: 5.10 years (over 20 models)

    Note that Chris cherry picks models to arrive at a longer average.
    And, as long as he defines what he cherry picked, I'm fine with that.

    It's how averages work.

    There are recent promises of course, but we'll have to wait another few
    years to see if they come true.

    If you disagree, *show us the data*. Which iPhones stopped getting iOS updates in less than 5 years?

    Jesus Christ, Theo. Stop it with that bullshit. Just stop it.
    I provided "the data" in excruciating detail on the Apple newsgroups.

    Stop being ignorant, Theo. Just stop it. Cut the crap. Be a man.
    I invested two full days in providing the data to the Apple ng, Theo.

    You "invested" two seconds in declaring all the data in the world is meaningless to you because you only believe in marketing propaganda.

    Be a man Theo.
    Apologize for saying what you just said.

    The data I provided is more detailed than anything you'll ever find on th Internet, so cut the crap when you make childish claims out of ignorance.

    Look it up first.
    Then apologize if you're a man.

    a. Longest full macOS software support was 2.49 years (OS X 10.4 Tiger)
    b. Shortest full macOS software support was 0.51 years (OS X 10.0 Cheetah)
    c. Average full macOS software support was 1.18 years (20 versions)
    d. Typical full macOS software support was ~1.0-1.5 years

    Verbatim:
    1. iPhone OS 1 was released on June 29, 2007
    2. The last known security update was iPhone OS 1.1.5 on July 15, 2008
    3. That is 382 days, or 1.05 years of security updates after release

    1. iPhone OS 2 was released on July 11, 2008
    2. The last known security update was iPhone OS 2.2.1 on January 27, 2009
    3. That is 200 days, or 0.55 years of security updates after release

    1. iPhone OS 3 was released on June 17, 2009
    2. The last known security update was iPhone OS 3.2.2 on August 11, 2010
    3. That is 420 days, or 1.15 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 4 was released on June 21, 2010
    2. The last known security update was iOS 4.3.5 released on July 25, 2011
    3. That is 399 days, or 1.09 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 5 was released on October 12, 2011
    2. The last known security update was iOS 5.1.1 released on May 7, 2012
    3. That is 208 days, or 0.57 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 6 was released on September 19, 2012
    2. The last known security update was iOS 6.1.6 on February 21, 2014
    3. That is 520 days, or 1.42 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 7 was released on September 18, 2013
    2. The last known security update was iOS 7.1.2 released on June 30, 2014
    3. That is 285 days, or 0.78 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 8 was released on September 17, 2014
    2. The last known security update was iOS 8.4.1 released on August 13, 2015
    3. That is 330 days, or 0.90 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 9 was released on September 16, 2015
    2. The last known security update was iOS 9.3.6 released on July 22, 2019
    3. That is 1,406 days, or 3.85 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 10 was released on September 13, 2016
    2. The last known security update was iOS 10.3.4 released on July 22, 2019
    3. That is 1,042 days, or 2.85 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 11 was released on September 19, 2017
    2. The last known security update was iOS 11.4.1 released on July 9, 2018
    3. That is 293 days, or 0.80 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 12 was released on September 17, 2018
    2. The last known security update was iOS 12.5.7 on January 23, 2023
    3. That is 1,589 days, or 4.35 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 13 was released on September 19, 2019
    2. The last known security update was iOS 13.7 on September 1, 2020
    3. That is 348 days, or 0.95 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 14 was released on September 16, 2020
    2. The last known security update was iOS 14.8.1 on October 26, 2021
    3. That is 405 days, or 1.11 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 15 was released on September 20, 2021
    2. The last known security update was iOS 15.8.2 on January 22, 2024
    3. That is 854 days, or 2.34 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 16 was released on September 12, 2022
    2. The last known security update was iOS 16.7.10 on January 22, 2024
    3. That is 497 days, or 1.36 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 17 was released on September 18, 2023
    2. The last known security update was iOS 17.4.1 on March 21, 2024
    3. That is 185 days, or 0.51 years of security updates after release

    1. iOS 18 was released on September 16, 2024
    2. The last known security update was iOS 18.3 on February 12, 2025
    3. That is 149 days, or 0.41 years of security updates after release

    For macOS, as far as I can tell, here's the data (please doublecheck).

    1. Mac OS X 10.0 (Cheetah) was released on March 24, 2001
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2002-07-12 on July 12, 2002
    3. That is 475 days, or 1.30 years of security updates after release

    1. Mac OS X 10.1 (Puma) was released on September 25, 2001
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2003-06-09 on June 9, 2003
    3. That is 622 days, or 1.70 years of security updates after release

    1. Mac OS X 10.2 (Jaguar) was released on August 23, 2002
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2004-05-24 on May 24, 2004
    3. That is 640 days, or 1.75 years of security updates after release

    1. Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) was released on October 24, 2003
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2007-004 on April 19, 2007
    3. That is 1,273 days, or 3.49 years of security updates after release

    1. Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) was released on April 29, 2005
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2009-005 on Sept 10, 2009
    3. That is 1,596 days, or 4.37 years of security updates after release

    1. Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) was released on October 26, 2007
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2011-006 on Nov 9, 2011
    3. That is 1,475 days, or 4.04 years of security updates after release

    1. Mac OS X 10.6 (Snow Leopard) was released on August 28, 2009
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2013-004 on Sept 12, 2013
    3. That is 1,477 days, or 4.04 years of security updates after release

    1. OS X 10.7 (Lion) was released on July 20, 2011
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2014-004 on Aug 13, 2014
    3. That is 1,120 days, or 3.07 years of security updates after release

    1. OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion) was released on July 25, 2012
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2015-006 on August 13, 2015
    3. That is 1,114 days, or 3.05 years of security updates after release

    1. OS X 10.9 (Mavericks) was released on October 22, 2013
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2016-003 on July 18, 2016
    3. That is 1,000 days, or 2.74 years of security updates after release

    1. OS X 10.10 (Yosemite) was released on October 16, 2014
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2017-005 on July 19, 2017
    3. That is 1,007 days, or 2.76 years of security updates after release

    1. OS X 10.11 (El Capitan) was released on September 30, 2015
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2018-003 on July 9, 2018
    3. That is 1,013 days, or 2.77 years of security updates after release

    1. macOS 10.12 (Sierra) was released on September 20, 2016
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2019-004 on July 22, 2019
    3. That is 1,035 days, or 2.83 years of security updates after release

    1. macOS 10.13 (High Sierra) was released on September 25, 2017
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2020-006 on Sept 24, 2020
    3. That is 1,095 days, or 3.00 years of security updates after release

    1. macOS 10.14 (Mojave) was released on September 24, 2018
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2021-005 on July 21, 2021
    3. That is 1,031 days, or 2.82 years of security updates after release

    1. macOS 10.15 (Catalina) was released on October 7, 2019
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2022-005 on July 20, 2022
    3. That is 1,017 days, or 2.79 years of security updates after release

    1. macOS 11 (Big Sur) was released on November 12, 2020
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2023-005 on Sept 11, 2023
    3. That is 1,034 days, or 2.83 years of security updates after release

    1. macOS 12 (Monterey) was released on October 25, 2021
    2. The last security update was Security Update 2024-002 on Jan 22, 2024
    3. That is 820 days, or 2.25 years of security updates after release

    1. macOS 13 (Ventura) was released on October 24, 2022
    2. The last security update was macOS Ventura 13.6.6 on March 25, 2024
    3. That is 518 days, or 1.42 years of security updates after release

    1. macOS 14 (Sonoma) was released on September 26, 2023
    2. The last security update was macOS Sonoma 14.4.1 on March 21, 2024
    3. That is 177 days, or 0.49 years of security updates after release

    If those numbers are correct, then we can make an educated assessment:

    LONGEST:
    A. The longest iOS support (but that's not FULL support) = 4.35 years
    B. The longest macOS support (but not FULL support) = 4.37 years

    SHORTEST:
    A. The shortest iOS support (but that's not FULL support) = 0.55 years
    B. The shortest macOS support (but not FULL support) = 1.30 years

    AVERAGE:
    A. The average iOS support (but that's not FULL support)
    Sum = 25.52 years (for completed versions)
    Count = 16 versions (have completed)
    Average = 26.14 / 18 = 1.59 years
    B. The average macOS support (but that's not FULL support)
    Sum = 53.17 years
    Count = 19
    Average = 2.80 years

    Note that this FACT is likely far shorter than most people think it is.
    --
    All I care about are the facts. I don't care for propaganda.
    Hence, I defend no mothership to the death - I treat them all equally.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to comp.mobile.android on Fri Apr 17 20:18:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.mobile.android

    Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:
    Chris wrote:
    You always deny empirical fact and prefer other people's opinions.

    Hi Chris,

    On an Apple newsgroup, denying all facts works but not here, on Android.

    *All of us have discussed the empirical facts in this very thread*

    Which of those empirical facts are you claiming don't exist in this thread?

    Comment on this before making any more claims about "cliff edge" support. https://imgshare.cc/a08v04ce


    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2