• [LINK] The very weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option

    From not@not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) to comp.misc on Sat Oct 15 10:17:17 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    The very weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option
    By Hein-Pieter van Braam, May 15, 2022
    - https://blog.tmm.cx/2022/05/15/the-very-weird-hewlett-packard-freedos-option/

    "In this installment: some strange things I discovered when
    purchasing a FreeDOS laptop from Hewlett Packard. I suspect that
    the audience for this will be somewhat limited but I had fun
    exploring this. Perhaps you, dear reader, will find a chuckle in
    here too.

    Some background: I recently purchased a HP ZBook 17.8 G8 as I run
    Fedora Linux I decided to have a little fun with the OS selection
    and picked the FreeDOS option (Other options include Ubuntu, and
    various flavors of Windows 11)." ...
    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Retrograde@fungus@amongus.com.invalid to comp.misc on Sat Oct 15 13:37:28 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    On 2022-10-15, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    The very weird Hewlett Packard FreeDOS option
    By Hein-Pieter van Braam, May 15, 2022
    - https://blog.tmm.cx/2022/05/15/the-very-weird-hewlett-packard-freedos-option/

    "In this installment: some strange things I discovered when
    purchasing a FreeDOS laptop from Hewlett Packard. I suspect that

    This was a really interesting read, and not what I expected. What a
    complicated setup they put in place!

    I once bought a Lenovo netbook with FreeDOS and installed Linux seconds
    after getting home. HP obviously expects you to do the same, so none of
    the complexity is expected to last for very long.

    (Looks like a nice laptop, by the way).
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Marco Moock@mo01@posteo.de to comp.misc on Sat Oct 15 16:41:28 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Am 15.10.2022 um 10:17:17 Uhr schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:

    Some background: I recently purchased a HP ZBook 17.8 G8 as I run
    Fedora Linux I decided to have a little fun with the OS selection
    and picked the FreeDOS option (Other options include Ubuntu, and
    various flavors of Windows 11)." ...

    But why do they offer that?
    Only a really small amount of people needs that, even less than people
    wanting GNU/Linux on their machines.

    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.misc on Sat Oct 15 15:53:06 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
    Am 15.10.2022 um 10:17:17 Uhr schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:

    Some background: I recently purchased a HP ZBook 17.8 G8 as I run
    Fedora Linux I decided to have a little fun with the OS selection
    and picked the FreeDOS option (Other options include Ubuntu, and
    various flavors of Windows 11)." ...

    But why do they offer that?
    Only a really small amount of people needs that, even less than people wanting GNU/Linux on their machines.

    If you look at the article, the first screen shot therein explains why.
    The FreeDOS option allows those, with no interest in paying the
    windows tax, the ability to purchase the laptop without paying the
    windows tax (which ranges from a low of 97.25 Euros to 162.47 Euros per
    the screen shot).

    The Ubuntu option also avoids the tax, but 'FreeDOS' might be aimed at corportate purchasing departments that already have a blanket MS
    licence for installing windows on their hardware themselves. FreeDOS
    would allow just enough "it works, reimage the disk" testing by the
    group who reimages the disks to handle DOA situations.

    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Marco Moock@mo01@posteo.de to comp.misc on Sat Oct 15 19:05:47 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Am 15.10.2022 um 15:53:06 Uhr schrieb Rich:

    Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
    Am 15.10.2022 um 10:17:17 Uhr schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:

    Some background: I recently purchased a HP ZBook 17.8 G8 as I run
    Fedora Linux I decided to have a little fun with the OS selection
    and picked the FreeDOS option (Other options include Ubuntu, and
    various flavors of Windows 11)." ...

    But why do they offer that?
    Only a really small amount of people needs that, even less than
    people wanting GNU/Linux on their machines.

    If you look at the article, the first screen shot therein explains
    why. The FreeDOS option allows those, with no interest in paying the
    windows tax, the ability to purchase the laptop without paying the
    windows tax (which ranges from a low of 97.25 Euros to 162.47 Euros
    per the screen shot).

    No operating system would also avoid the Windows license and creates
    less work for HP.

    The Ubuntu option also avoids the tax, but 'FreeDOS' might be aimed
    at corportate purchasing departments that already have a blanket MS
    licence for installing windows on their hardware themselves. FreeDOS
    would allow just enough "it works, reimage the disk" testing by the
    group who reimages the disks to handle DOA situations.

    What are DOA situations?
    I don't see a reason for FreeDOS here, they can directly install
    Windows/any other OS without even booting FreeDOS. I think there is
    another reason for HP to provide it.

    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.misc on Sat Oct 15 19:48:06 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
    Am 15.10.2022 um 15:53:06 Uhr schrieb Rich:

    Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
    Am 15.10.2022 um 10:17:17 Uhr schrieb Computer Nerd Kev:

    Some background: I recently purchased a HP ZBook 17.8 G8 as I run
    Fedora Linux I decided to have a little fun with the OS selection
    and picked the FreeDOS option (Other options include Ubuntu, and
    various flavors of Windows 11)." ...

    But why do they offer that?
    Only a really small amount of people needs that, even less than
    people wanting GNU/Linux on their machines.

    If you look at the article, the first screen shot therein explains
    why. The FreeDOS option allows those, with no interest in paying the
    windows tax, the ability to purchase the laptop without paying the
    windows tax (which ranges from a low of 97.25 Euros to 162.47 Euros
    per the screen shot).

    No operating system would also avoid the Windows license and creates
    less work for HP.

    The Ubuntu option also avoids the tax, but 'FreeDOS' might be aimed
    at corportate purchasing departments that already have a blanket MS
    licence for installing windows on their hardware themselves. FreeDOS
    would allow just enough "it works, reimage the disk" testing by the
    group who reimages the disks to handle DOA situations.

    What are DOA situations?

    DOA = Dead On Arrival -- FreeDOS would boot 'just enough' for the
    minimum wage contract worker to filter likely "works" from "broken from factory" without needing to invest much in /training/ for that same
    person by "big corp".

    I don't see a reason for FreeDOS here, they can directly install
    Windows/any other OS without even booting FreeDOS. I think there is
    another reason for HP to provide it.

    The worker doing the dead on arrival filtering (and unboxing) is the
    minimum wage worker with minimum training. The person doing the
    "install" is the next level up in pay. Having the higher cost worker
    also doing the dead on arrival filter would compute out to to be a
    higher net cost to some bean counter in budgeting.

    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to comp.misc on Sat Oct 15 21:08:06 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
    DOA = Dead On Arrival -- FreeDOS would boot 'just enough' for the
    minimum wage contract worker to filter likely "works" from "broken from factory" without needing to invest much in /training/ for that same
    person by "big corp".

    The other advantage of FreeDOS (or this kind of FreeDOS frankenstein) over a full Linux distro like Ubuntu is it doesn't support all the hardware of the machine. So you don't need to bother about Linux drivers for the
    fingerprint reader or whatever, because FreeDOS doesn't have any software
    that uses fingerprints. If you give people Ubuntu they will expect things
    to work and complain when they don't.

    Apparently FreeDOS requires the legacy BIOS functions and PCs since 2020
    don't support them (UEFI only), which is why there's an emulation layer been put underneath FreeDOS.

    The worker doing the dead on arrival filtering (and unboxing) is the
    minimum wage worker with minimum training. The person doing the
    "install" is the next level up in pay. Having the higher cost worker
    also doing the dead on arrival filter would compute out to to be a
    higher net cost to some bean counter in budgeting.

    Presumably there's a production process which includes imaging the HDD, and
    the HDD image has to contain 'something' to check that the HDD and basic hardware (keyboard, screen) is working correctly.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From not@not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) to comp.misc on Sun Oct 16 07:14:46 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
    Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:

    I don't see a reason for FreeDOS here, they can directly install
    Windows/any other OS without even booting FreeDOS. I think there is
    another reason for HP to provide it.

    The worker doing the dead on arrival filtering (and unboxing) is the
    minimum wage worker with minimum training. The person doing the
    "install" is the next level up in pay. Having the higher cost worker
    also doing the dead on arrival filter would compute out to to be a
    higher net cost to some bean counter in budgeting.

    A valid point, but I suspect another reason is that companies who
    install their own OS image have likely been ordering these things
    since the days when some portion users may have actually
    wanted/needed DOS. The people doing the ordering probably have no
    idea what DOS is or why they select it, just that it's what the
    IT people require. If HP take away that option, they'll probably
    cause years of confusion as each company engages in lots of
    back-and-forth to determine whether it's OK to order the laptops
    from HP with the "blank" option. Maybe some hopeless cases would
    even end up so confused that they purchase from a competitor
    that still offers a DOS option instead.
    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to comp.misc on Sun Oct 16 14:06:05 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    A valid point, but I suspect another reason is that companies who
    install their own OS image have likely been ordering these things
    since the days when some portion users may have actually
    wanted/needed DOS.

    I doubt that (I can't think when companies would have last actually wanted
    DOS in volume, maybe sometime in 1990s?). But it's possible 'DOS' has
    become fossilised as a placeholder for 'I'm not paying the Windows tax
    because I'll install my own OS'. That route must be not uncommon for corporates who have their own volume Windows licences and don't need one to come with the hardware, which might make it a quite popular option. When
    DOS could no longer run on modern hardware, they did this virtualisation
    hack.

    The people doing the ordering probably have no idea what DOS is or why
    they select it, just that it's what the IT people require. If HP take
    away that option, they'll probably cause years of confusion as each
    company engages in lots of back-and-forth to determine whether it's OK to order the laptops from HP with the "blank" option. Maybe some hopeless
    cases would even end up so confused that they purchase from a competitor
    that still offers a DOS option instead.

    I doubt it's what IT people require (I'm sure they are smarter than that),
    but maybe there are contracts like 'DoD will buy 1 million desktops
    installed with DOS' and so HP do it to fulfill the contract.

    OTOH I wonder whether the various Microsoft antitrust cases had a bearing: perhaps MS was unable to prevent the vendors from shipping hardware without
    a Windows licence, but the vendors agreed to ship something as useless as possible, rather than something that would actually compete.

    This particular dev laptop has an Ubuntu preinstall option which would be infinitely better, but most business laptops won't. I wouldn't be
    surprised, though, if in future they were to just have a FreeDOS 'app'
    running inside Ubuntu, rather than their own Debian build. I think the
    Debian build may predate Ubuntu dev preinstalls, but they must keep having
    to update at least the kernel for new hardware, so maintenance isn't zero.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to comp.misc on Sun Oct 16 13:22:00 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
    I don't see a reason for FreeDOS here, they can directly install
    Windows/any other OS without even booting FreeDOS. I think there is
    another reason for HP to provide it.

    They could, but it is nice to have an operating system for testing so
    you can just validate that the system is good before dropping a brand new
    OS on it. As mentioned, a number of systems turn up DOA.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.misc on Mon Oct 24 12:42:17 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    On 16 Oct 2022 14:06:05 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    A valid point, but I suspect another reason is that companies who
    install their own OS image have likely been ordering these things since
    the days when some portion users may have actually wanted/needed DOS.

    I doubt that (I can't think when companies would have last actually
    wanted DOS in volume, maybe sometime in 1990s?). But it's possible
    'DOS' has become fossilised as a placeholder for 'I'm not paying the
    Windows tax because I'll install my own OS'. That route must be not
    uncommon for corporates who have their own volume Windows licences and
    don't need one to come with the hardware, which might make it a quite
    popular option. When DOS could no longer run on modern hardware, they
    did this virtualisation hack.

    MsDOS doesn't, but Free DOS probably does. It would be interesting to see
    the author try that, just for fun.


    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeDOS#Compatibility>

    ...

    OTOH I wonder whether the various Microsoft antitrust cases had a
    bearing: perhaps MS was unable to prevent the vendors from shipping
    hardware without a Windows licence, but the vendors agreed to ship
    something as useless as possible, rather than something that would
    actually compete.

    I think this is true. Vendors have to ship machines with some operating system, depending on the country.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to comp.misc on Tue Oct 25 09:55:29 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 16 Oct 2022 14:06:05 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    A valid point, but I suspect another reason is that companies who
    install their own OS image have likely been ordering these things since
    the days when some portion users may have actually wanted/needed DOS.

    I doubt that (I can't think when companies would have last actually
    wanted DOS in volume, maybe sometime in 1990s?). But it's possible
    'DOS' has become fossilised as a placeholder for 'I'm not paying the Windows tax because I'll install my own OS'. That route must be not uncommon for corporates who have their own volume Windows licences and don't need one to come with the hardware, which might make it a quite popular option. When DOS could no longer run on modern hardware, they
    did this virtualisation hack.

    MsDOS doesn't, but Free DOS probably does. It would be interesting to see the author try that, just for fun.

    It doesn't:

    http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Releases/1.3
    (20 Feb 2022)

    "FreeDOS 1.3 will not support UEFI-only systems. You will need to enable "legacy" or "compatibility" mode in your UEFI to emulate a BIOS.

    Since Intel plans to end "legacy BIOS" support in their new platforms by
    2020 (in favor of UEFI) users have asked if FreeDOS will be updated to
    support UEFI. The short answer is No.

    Like any DOS, FreeDOS makes use of BIOS for video and disk functions. But
    even if these functions were moved into the FreeDOS kernel, note that there
    are many, many existing DOS programs that directly use BIOS to work.
    FreeDOS cannot "emulate" BIOS for these programs. "


    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.misc on Tue Oct 25 18:43:57 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    On 25 Oct 2022 09:55:29 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 16 Oct 2022 14:06:05 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

    Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:
    A valid point, but I suspect another reason is that companies who
    install their own OS image have likely been ordering these things
    since the days when some portion users may have actually
    wanted/needed DOS.

    I doubt that (I can't think when companies would have last actually
    wanted DOS in volume, maybe sometime in 1990s?). But it's possible
    'DOS' has become fossilised as a placeholder for 'I'm not paying the
    Windows tax because I'll install my own OS'. That route must be not
    uncommon for corporates who have their own volume Windows licences
    and don't need one to come with the hardware, which might make it a
    quite popular option. When DOS could no longer run on modern
    hardware, they did this virtualisation hack.

    MsDOS doesn't, but Free DOS probably does. It would be interesting to
    see the author try that, just for fun.

    It doesn't:

    http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Releases/1.3 (20 Feb 2022)

    "FreeDOS 1.3 will not support UEFI-only systems. You will need to
    enable "legacy" or "compatibility" mode in your UEFI to emulate a BIOS.

    Since Intel plans to end "legacy BIOS" support in their new platforms by
    2020 (in favor of UEFI) users have asked if FreeDOS will be updated to support UEFI. The short answer is No.

    Like any DOS, FreeDOS makes use of BIOS for video and disk functions.
    But even if these functions were moved into the FreeDOS kernel, note
    that there are many, many existing DOS programs that directly use BIOS
    to work. FreeDOS cannot "emulate" BIOS for these programs. "


    They are not only removing the bios boot "system", but also all the functionality, the bios "interrupts"?

    That will also affect legacy software out there.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to comp.misc on Thu Oct 27 09:42:10 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 25 Oct 2022 09:55:29 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:
    http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Releases/1.3 (20 Feb 2022)

    "FreeDOS 1.3 will not support UEFI-only systems. You will need to
    enable "legacy" or "compatibility" mode in your UEFI to emulate a BIOS.

    Since Intel plans to end "legacy BIOS" support in their new platforms by 2020 (in favor of UEFI) users have asked if FreeDOS will be updated to support UEFI. The short answer is No.

    Like any DOS, FreeDOS makes use of BIOS for video and disk functions.
    But even if these functions were moved into the FreeDOS kernel, note
    that there are many, many existing DOS programs that directly use BIOS
    to work. FreeDOS cannot "emulate" BIOS for these programs. "


    They are not only removing the bios boot "system", but also all the functionality, the bios "interrupts"?

    That will also affect legacy software out there.

    AIUI that's what they're talking about. CSM is the mechanism by which UEFI
    can support legacy BIOS calls. Intel wants to/has removed CSM. It seems
    AMD hasn't decided to do that, yet.

    Although:

    Intel Client Platform Programs for 2020+
    * Starting with client platforms launching in 2020 [1]. Intel will no longer be supporting legacy Basic
    Input/output System (BIOS) mode.
    * This means that Intel will not support issues, questions, or debug scenarios on legacy platform BIOS
    configurations, as they are not official plan on record.
    [1] Includes 10 th generation Intel platforms launching in 2020 and all future platforms.
    https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/intel-nuc/Legacy-BIOS-Boot-Support-Removal-for-Intel-Platforms.pdf

    I'm not sure if that means the feature has been removed or 'it's there but
    we won't answer the phone about it'.

    Although I think the point is a bit moot - if you can't boot DOS/Win3/Win9x
    via UEFI, how can apps make BIOS calls? I'm not sure that the NT line (XP
    and later) uses BIOS calls directly.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.misc on Thu Oct 27 11:11:21 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    On 27 Oct 2022 09:42:10 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 25 Oct 2022 09:55:29 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:
    http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/Releases/1.3 (20 Feb 2022)

    "FreeDOS 1.3 will not support UEFI-only systems. You will need to
    enable "legacy" or "compatibility" mode in your UEFI to emulate a
    BIOS.

    Since Intel plans to end "legacy BIOS" support in their new platforms
    by 2020 (in favor of UEFI) users have asked if FreeDOS will be
    updated to support UEFI. The short answer is No.

    Like any DOS, FreeDOS makes use of BIOS for video and disk functions.
    But even if these functions were moved into the FreeDOS kernel, note
    that there are many, many existing DOS programs that directly use
    BIOS to work. FreeDOS cannot "emulate" BIOS for these programs. "


    They are not only removing the bios boot "system", but also all the
    functionality, the bios "interrupts"?

    That will also affect legacy software out there.

    AIUI that's what they're talking about. CSM is the mechanism by which
    UEFI can support legacy BIOS calls. Intel wants to/has removed CSM. It seems AMD hasn't decided to do that, yet.

    Although:

    Intel Client Platform Programs for 2020+
    * Starting with client platforms launching in 2020 [1]. Intel will no
    longer be supporting legacy Basic Input/output System (BIOS) mode.
    * This means that Intel will not support issues, questions, or debug scenarios on legacy platform BIOS configurations, as they are not
    official plan on record.
    [1] Includes 10 th generation Intel platforms launching in 2020 and all future platforms. https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/intel-nuc/
    Legacy-BIOS-Boot-Support-Removal-for-Intel-Platforms.pdf

    I'm not sure if that means the feature has been removed or 'it's there
    but we won't answer the phone about it'.

    Although I think the point is a bit moot - if you can't boot
    DOS/Win3/Win9x via UEFI, how can apps make BIOS calls? I'm not sure
    that the NT line (XP and later) uses BIOS calls directly.

    Well, there are applications running in an MsDOS shell under Windows, for instance. Not virtualized. I'm not using any, but there are people around
    who are. I suspect there are industrial setups, machines, that are using
    MsDOS software.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to comp.misc on Thu Oct 27 20:24:12 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    Well, there are applications running in an MsDOS shell under Windows, for >instance. Not virtualized. I'm not using any, but there are people around >who are. I suspect there are industrial setups, machines, that are using >MsDOS software.

    The Windows command line is as awful as MS-DOS and it is sort of a little
    bit compatible with MS-DOS but the similarity ends there. It is -not- an "MS-DOS shell" even if many Windows people call it the "DOS Window."
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to comp.misc on Fri Oct 28 12:26:21 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    Well, there are applications running in an MsDOS shell under Windows, for >instance. Not virtualized. I'm not using any, but there are people around >who are. I suspect there are industrial setups, machines, that are using >MsDOS software.

    The Windows command line is as awful as MS-DOS and it is sort of a little
    bit compatible with MS-DOS but the similarity ends there. It is -not- an "MS-DOS shell" even if many Windows people call it the "DOS Window."
    --scott

    I'm not really familiar with the plumbing here, but I think that if you
    launch a DOS app in a Windows command window, the BIOS calls are emulated by Windows. After all, if the thing tries to do 'clear screen' or change video mode it doesn't clear or change the whole screen (as the real BIOS would)
    but only affects the command window.

    I think on '95 you could still make BIOS calls and such apps would run fullscreen, but not in NT.

    <googles> It's called NTVDM and was introduced in 1993: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/ntvdm-and-16-bit-app-support
    but only works on 32 bit x86 versions of Windows.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113
  • From Dave Yeo@dave.r.yeo@gmail.com to comp.misc on Sun Oct 30 22:48:28 2022
    From Newsgroup: comp.misc

    Theo wrote:
    Although I think the point is a bit moot - if you can't boot DOS/Win3/Win9x via UEFI, how can apps make BIOS calls? I'm not sure that the NT line (XP and later) uses BIOS calls directly.

    OS/2, well actually ArcaOS (https://arcanoea.com), OEM version of OS/2,
    is handling it by having a minimal video BIOS setup during the preboot.
    As DOS runs in ring2, it has always trapped disk access and emulated the
    BIOS functions (same with the mouse). It should be able to run FreeDOS
    with the 8.3 FAT limitations.
    It actually works quite well with most DOS and Win3.1 programs running
    well, both full screen and windowed in a UEFI boot, at least as long as
    the frame buffer can be put into the lower 4GB of memory. There are
    systems appearing where it isn't possible, same with PCI address space.
    Dave
    --- Synchronet 3.19c-Linux NewsLink 1.113