From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It must leave a sour taste.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It must leave a sour taste.

It is also *probably* too little too late.
--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:

At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It must leave a sour taste.

It is also *probably* too little too late.

Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.
--
Nuno Silva
May contain traces of: sarcasm.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It is also *probably* too little too late.

Quote:

... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
then that's what it needs to do.

But if what its operating system is supposedly “doing better than competitors” is “running a Linux stack”, then pretty much by
definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
manage.

But yes, a hybrid environment does at least offer some sense of
familiarity to those who have spent too long in the Windows world --
easier than jumping straight into the deep end of a pure-Linux
environment.

In other words, all Microsoft can do, really, is help ease the
transition away from Windows to Linux. Instead of slowing the move by
making the Windows environment more attractive to stay with for just a
little bit longer, it could, paradoxically, help to speed it up.

The final section heading spells it out: “WSL is Microsoft admitting
that developers want to be elsewhere”. No two ways about it.
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 7/4/26 19:36, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:

At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It must leave a sour taste.

It is also *probably* too little too late.

Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.

Pikachu ! :-)

Maybe a "Minion" !!!

Those ought to be about the mental level of
today's 'users'.

As for "Microsoft Developers" ... I just think they
want big money for doing basically nothing. That's
the Gen-Z/A2 paradigm. They "just deserve" the high
life because, well, Just Because .........

A long time back, a niece, maybe 3rd cousin, about
12 years old asked why anybody should DO anything,
just hand out Free Money. "Well, if nobody is doing
anything, what do you buy ?" Answer - "just buy it
from some other place !". "If nobody here is doing
anything, making anything, why would our money be
worth anything to them ? It'd just be paper with
numbers on it." She didn't have an answer for that.

She wasn't STUPID - indeed probably IQ-130 - but
she and her crowd had never even been informed how
money/economies WORK, how the value of money is
tied to DOING/MAKING stuff. This seems criminally
negligent - 'socialists/communists' behind it.

This was latter Gen-Y ... it's MUCH worse now.

As for little Cuz ... she's spent a lot of her
life in jail, or dodging jail, for a lot of
little offenses. Not a happy ending.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 7/4/26 20:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It is also *probably* too little too late.

Quote:

... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
then that's what it needs to do.

But if what its operating system is supposedly “doing better than competitors” is “running a Linux stack”, then pretty much by definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
manage.

That's the LOGICAL view.

'Consumers' don't see it that way. They've
always used Winders and can't think outside
that box.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It is also *probably* too little too late.

Quote:

... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
then that's what it needs to do.

But if what its operating system is supposedly “doing better than competitors” is “running a Linux stack”, then pretty much by definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
manage.

Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for
Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It is also *probably* too little too late.

Quote:

... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools,
then that's what it needs to do.

But if what its operating system is supposedly "doing better than competitors" is "running a Linux stack", then pretty much by
definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can manage.

Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for
Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.

Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX -- move
from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel (and base O/S infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on top...
The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying to entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL is not going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the "typical" MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install Linux and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build on Linux targeting MS-Windows.


--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-07-05 14:41, Robert Heller wrote:

At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It is also *probably* too little too late.

Quote:

... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools, >>> then that's what it needs to do.

But if what its operating system is supposedly "doing better than
competitors" is "running a Linux stack", then pretty much by
definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
manage.

Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for
Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.

Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX -- move from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel (and base O/S infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on top...

The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying to entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL is not going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the "typical" MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install Linux and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build on Linux targeting MS-Windows.

Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently? Just
click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away? Those
same applications could also run on Linux proper.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:12:44 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-07-05 14:41, Robert Heller wrote:

At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 13:35:57 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-07-05 02:02, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2026 18:41:39 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It is also *probably* too little too late.

Quote:

... Microsoft really does need to make its OS comfortable for
Linux developers to work in, because the alternative involves
people ditching Windows entirely. For Microsoft to maintain its
user base, it has to ensure that its operating system can do
everything better than its competitors, and if that includes
allowing people to code Linux apps instead of using its own tools, >>> then that's what it needs to do.

But if what its operating system is supposedly "doing better than
competitors" is "running a Linux stack", then pretty much by
definition, native Linux itself will always do that better than any
Windows-with-Linux-bag-hanging-off-the-side two-headed FrankenOS can
manage.

Unless the user needs one of those applications that only exist for
Windows. For instance, some tax software for the USA.

Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX -- move from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel (and base O/S infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on top...

The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying to entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL is not going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the "typical" MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install Linux
and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows
just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build on Linux
targeting MS-Windows.

Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently? Just
click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away? Those
same applications could also run on Linux proper.

It depends on the program load infrastructure. Eg is WSL on MS-Windows like WINE on Linux? (Does WSL provide a system call wrapper library?) Does the build tools under WSL produce Linux ELF binaries or native MS-Windows binaries (which is what the mingwin toolchain running under linux produces). It would of course be true that the WSL application *source code* would also build on a Linux machine and then run under Linux,
Note: almost any non-GUI Linux utility will compile and run under MacOS, depending on the level of its dependency on specific O/S features and libraries. Actually any classic C program that just uses the base STDIO
library will compile on Linux, MacOSX, and even MS-Windows (without any need for WSL). The produced *binaries* are of cource not "portable".

--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> writes:

At Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:12:44 +0200 "Carlos E. R." wrote:

On 2026-07-05 14:41, Robert Heller wrote:

Wondering if Microsoft is looking to do what Apple did with MacOSX
-- move from their own propriatory kernel to an open source kernel
(and base O/S infrastructure) with a propriatory GUI layer on
top...

Personally I doubt it. I don’t think they perceive any likely benefit
from open-sourcing the Windows kernel, and inserting some other kernel
under the Windows ABI seems like a great deal of work for dubious
benefit.

The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft
trying to entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from
Linux? The WSL is not going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows
user (or if the "typical" MS-Windows user starts using the WSL,
they might decide to just install Linux and move on. Developers
already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows just to use
WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux
programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools to cross-build
on Linux targeting MS-Windows.

Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently?

Yes. Linux applications run transparently on the Windows desktop.

Just click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away?

You can make that work, yes.

Those same applications could also run on Linux proper.

WSL _is_ “Linux proper”, running in a VM.

It depends on the program load infrastructure. Eg is WSL on
MS-Windows like WINE on Linux? (Does WSL provide a system call
wrapper library?)

No, it’s not like WINE.

(The first version was somewhat ‘like WINE’, albeit emulating the target platform at a different layer. But that has been abandoned now; today
WSL is Linux in a VM, with very good host integration.)

Does the build tools under WSL produce Linux ELF binaries or native MS-Windows binaries (which is what the mingwin toolchain running under
linux produces). It would of course be true that the WSL application
*source code* would also build on a Linux machine and then run under
Linux,

It’s just Linux, executables are built using exactly the same versions
of exactly the same tools you use on Ubuntu, Debian, etc.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-07-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 7/4/26 19:36, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:

At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its-because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It must leave a sour taste.

It is also *probably* too little too late.

Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.

Pikachu ! :-)

Maybe a "Minion" !!!

Those ought to be about the mental level of
today's 'users'.

Bring back Clippy!

As for "Microsoft Developers" ... I just think they
want big money for doing basically nothing. That's
the Gen-Z/A2 paradigm. They "just deserve" the high
life because, well, Just Because .........

That's why they went to the SaaS model. Write it once,
collect money forever.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | They don't understand Microsoft
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | has stolen their car and parked
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | a taxi in their driveway.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Mayayana
--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 05 Jul 2026 18:07:41 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-07-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 7/4/26 19:36, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2026-07-04, Robert Heller wrote:

At 4 Jul 2026 18:23:24 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

<https://www.xda-developers.com/wsl-keeps-getting-better-and-its- because-microsoft-is-finally-admitting-where-developers-want-to-be/>

It must leave a sour taste.

It is also *probably* too little too late.

Hmm, then they better add a GenAI interface on top of it, perhaps with
an animated character to make it more "user-friendly" and funny.

Pikachu !

Maybe a "Minion" !!!

Those ought to be about the mental level of today's 'users'.

Bring back Clippy!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob

Rover rulz!


--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 12:41:18 -0000 (UTC), Robert Heller wrote:

The only "weirdness" (to me) about the WSL is why? Is microsoft trying
to entice Linux user (partitularly developers) away from Linux? The WSL
is not going to appeal to the "typical" MS-Windows user (or if the
"typical"
MS-Windows user starts using the WSL, they might decide to just install
Linux and move on. Developers already on Linux are not going to install MS-Windows just to use WSL. And no, doing that just to build MS-Windows versions of Linux programs is not really a reason -- there exist tools
to cross-build on Linux targeting MS-Windows.

A real use case: The wifi service available at shows is expensive and
often not very reliable. Maps assume you are downloading tiles from a tile server, in our case Esri. You sued to be able to see the tiles assembling
with a slow connection as each tile of the basemap was downloaded and rendered.

The marketing people were firmly rooted in Windows so the demo setup was installed on their laptops so they could do the dog and pony show, but displaying the map was problematic with crappy wifi.

https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/manually-building-a-tile-server- debian-13/

Building a tile server is a well documented path -- for Linux distors. In theory PostGIS, Mapnik, and so forth are available on Windows and you
could possibly set up the server but there would be a lot of cut'n'try.

I'd recently purchased a Beelink mini for my own use and originally
thought about using one for the tile server. Given the budget for trade
shows, $350 was noise. However that would be one more piece of gear to be shipped to the show and set up. Marketing always goes through many
practice sessions so the show will go smoothly. Not.

I created a WSL instance on a marketing laptop, gathered the data for the
PA county that matched the demo data, and hooked it up. MS actually has improved the IP connections between the Windows and WSL sections but that
was the hardest part. The result was one laptop completely set up so all
the marketing people had to do was turn it on and plug in the external monitors. If they didn't lose them along the way.

I'm sure there are more cases. On AWS a Linux instance is much cheaper
than a Windows one so it's cheaper to run everything that can be done on Linux. During the development phase it's convenient to simulate the cloud locally and that can often be done with WSL.



--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 5 Jul 2026 15:12:44 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Can they build applications that run on the WSL transparently? Just
click an icon on the desktop or a menu entry, and it fires away? Those
same applications could also run on Linux proper.

I haven't used WSL in a year of so but I believe they've made the process easier.

https://granule.medium.com/wsl2-gui-app-shortcuts-in-windows-with-wslg- fcc66d3134e7

WSL is a fast moving target. In the earlier iterations if you wanted a GUI
you have to install a third party X server and get it running. Unlike many Microsoft enthusiasms the WSL project seems to have staying power.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 05 Jul 2026 15:11:00 +0100, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

(The first version was somewhat ‘like WINE’, albeit emulating the target platform at a different layer. But that has been abandoned now; today
WSL is Linux in a VM, with very good host integration.)

If you install Docker Desktop on Windows it goes looking for a WSL
instance. I think you can make it use Hyper-V but that isn't the first
choice.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

A long time back, a niece, maybe 3rd cousin, about 12 years old
asked why anybody should DO anything, just hand out Free Money.
"Well, if nobody is doing anything, what do you buy ?" Answer -
"just buy it from some other place !". "If nobody here is doing
anything, making anything, why would our money be worth anything to
them ? It'd just be paper with numbers on it." She didn't have an
answer for that.

She wasn't STUPID - indeed probably IQ-130 - but she and her crowd
had never even been informed how money/economies WORK, how the
value of money is tied to DOING/MAKING stuff. This seems
criminally negligent - 'socialists/communists' behind it.

Maybe, but not necessarially. Another possibility is simply growing up
just a little too far up the "well-to-do" ladder. Little ones that
have always had every desire "fufilled" by mommy&daddy the moment the
desire pops in their heads, and without concern for the monetary cost involved, very often grow into teenagers/young adults who have zero
concept for the value of money nor for how current world economies
function. And not because their parents set out to teach them socialism/communism, but because their parents didn't want them to have
to "want for anything". The parents just didn't realize it was the
"want, but can't have yet because you/we can't afford it" aspect of
growing up that teaches them that money does not grow on trees and we
can't just "give everyone money" and continue the same as we do
currently.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

On 2026-07-05, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

As for "Microsoft Developers" ... I just think they want big
money for doing basically nothing. That's the Gen-Z/A2 paradigm.
They "just deserve" the high life because, well, Just Because
.........

That's why they went to the SaaS model. Write it once, collect money forever.

Any sane "businessman" would very much prefer an "eternal periodic rent
income stream" to a "single sale, and that's it" income stream.

So it is not at all surprising that as MS began to reach saturation on "licences to use" software that they then started to try to shift
everyone to a "pay us rent monthly for a licence to use for the month"
model.

The unfortunate sad part is too many customers fell for the "rental
model" and therefore made it seem viable to the MBA's.

--- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2