• Typical Mac users

    From ram@ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 18:05:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
    :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to
    :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most automobile owners :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point A to
    :point B".

    A scientist who uses Linux to study frequencies of words or
    diseases is someone who wants to use his computer as a tool
    to accomplish some other task, too.

    So, I appreciate your attempt to clarify what is special about
    Mac users, but I'm not sure whether your current wording is
    already the most accurate wording possible. Maybe someone can
    improve it.


    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Bokma@contact@johnbokma.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 20:09:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 08/04/2026 20:05, Stefan Ram wrote:
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
    :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to
    :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most automobile owners :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point A to :point B".

    A scientist who uses Linux to study frequencies of words or
    diseases is someone who wants to use his computer as a tool
    to accomplish some other task, too.

    So, I appreciate your attempt to clarify what is special about
    Mac users, but I'm not sure whether your current wording is
    already the most accurate wording possible. Maybe someone can
    improve it.

    "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data
    indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with
    approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work. As of 2022, Apple announced over 34 million registered developers across its ecosystem, though this includes iOS/iPad developers rather than only
    macOS laptop users."

    Sounds like quite some people use it like "us" ;-)


    (Source: AI answer: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+mac+users+are+developers)
    --
    Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
    Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Nuno Silva@nunojsilva@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 19:19:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote:

    On 08/04/2026 20:05, Stefan Ram wrote:
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
    :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their
    :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to
    :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most automobile owners >> :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point A to
    :point B".

    Car analogies tend to be a somewhat bad medium. As for this one
    specifically: how do car owners view their cars exactly?

    Is it plausible to expect all of them view cars in the same way? You
    won't have a subset who prefers knowing how it operates, and a subset
    which strongly dislikes knowing details, and all the intermediate
    options?

    People who prefer driving stick with gear changes, and people who want automatic?

    Those who do not care about the energy source, those who use at least
    some sort of electric power, those who prefer gasoline, those who are
    into diesel...

    A scientist who uses Linux to study frequencies of words or
    diseases is someone who wants to use his computer as a tool
    to accomplish some other task, too.

    So, I appreciate your attempt to clarify what is special about
    Mac users, but I'm not sure whether your current wording is
    already the most accurate wording possible. Maybe someone can
    improve it.

    "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data
    indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work. As

    30 to 44 % of *what*? Who is maintaining a world-wide roster, or roster
    of rosters, of "professional developers"? Who counts as a "developer"?
    Are academic researches qualified? Only people whose job position is
    directly software development? Only people who pay Apple some fee?

    of 2022, Apple announced over 34 million registered developers across
    its ecosystem, though this includes iOS/iPad developers rather than
    only macOS laptop users."

    Sounds like quite some people use it like "us" ;-)


    (Source: AI answer: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+mac+users+are+developers)
    --
    Nuno Silva
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Bokma@contact@johnbokma.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 21:25:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 08/04/2026 20:19, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote:

    [..]

    "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data
    indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with
    approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work. As

    30 to 44 % of *what*? Who is maintaining a world-wide roster, or roster
    of rosters, of "professional developers"? Who counts as a "developer"?
    Are academic researches qualified? Only people whose job position is
    directly software development? Only people who pay Apple some fee?

    I have no idea, but:

    of 2022, Apple announced over 34 million registered developers across
    its ecosystem, though this includes iOS/iPad developers rather than
    only macOS laptop users."

    A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives 34% of
    its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know if one can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad).
    --
    Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
    Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 20:37:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 08/04/2026 19:05, Stefan Ram wrote:
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
    :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to
    :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most automobile owners :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point A to :point B".

    A scientist who uses Linux to study frequencies of words or
    diseases is someone who wants to use his computer as a tool
    to accomplish some other task, too.

    By BIL is a scientist - a Phd geoligist. He uses Windows because it has
    the tools he needs
    My sister uses Apple everything - phone and ipad. Because what she wants
    is access to netflix and you tube, a voice recognition that means she
    doesn't have to type any more, and an interface to drive the TV via some
    nit of AppleShit that she is proiud to have actually made work.
    Actually its the husband that drives the Volvo, she has a SoobyRoo - the
    one whose engines are junk after 5 years, like her apple devices

    So, I appreciate your attempt to clarify what is special about
    Mac users, but I'm not sure whether your current wording is
    already the most accurate wording possible. Maybe someone can
    improve it.

    In companies I visited, plebs had Winders and the boss had a Mac and we
    had to connect the fucking things up to the network. Which was usually a
    waste of time . Apple talked Appletalk, not TCP/IP.

    Only MUCH later did they reluctantly implement SMB to be compatible with Mocrosoft, and both finally transition to native TCP.IP

    But not NFS...


    Only in firms whose business was Graphic Art did the 'creatives' have Macintoshes.
    I think some games companies had them so they could port games.



    --
    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
    rule.
    – H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 20:39:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 08/04/2026 19:09, John Bokma wrote:
    On 08/04/2026 20:05, Stefan Ram wrote:
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
    :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their
    :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to
    :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most automobile
    owners
    :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point A to
    :point B".

       A scientist who uses Linux to study frequencies of words or
       diseases is someone who wants to use his computer as a tool
       to accomplish some other task, too.

       So, I appreciate your attempt to clarify what is special about
       Mac users, but I'm not sure whether your current wording is
       already the most accurate wording possible. Maybe someone can
       improve it.

    "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work. As of 2022, Apple announced over 34 million registered developers across its ecosystem, though this includes iOS/iPad developers rather than only
    macOS laptop users."

    Sounds like quite some people use it like "us" ;-)

    And I am quite certain that they ALSO use Windows. Because if you are
    writing commercial software for a workstation, you have to write and
    test on both



    (Source: AI answer: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+mac+users+are+developers)

    --
    "Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
    let them."



    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Bokma@contact@johnbokma.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 22:14:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 08/04/2026 21:39, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 08/04/2026 19:09, John Bokma wrote:

    [..]

    "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data
    indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with
    approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work. As
    of 2022, Apple announced over 34 million registered developers across
    its ecosystem, though this includes iOS/iPad developers rather than
    only macOS laptop users."

    Sounds like quite some people use it like "us" ;-)

    And I am quite certain that they ALSO use Windows. Because if you are writing commercial software for a workstation, you have to write and
    test on both

    There is plenty of software written that's Mac only. Question is: what %
    of developers write also for Windows (and Linux, at that).
    --
    Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
    Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Bokma@contact@johnbokma.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 22:48:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 08/04/2026 21:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    [..]

    Actually its the husband that drives the Volvo, she has a SoobyRoo - the
    one whose engines are junk after 5 years, like her apple devices

    Sorry to hear that. My Mac mini died on me after 11 years of use, so YMMV.

    In companies I visited, plebs had Winders and the boss had a Mac and we
    had to connect the fucking things up to the network. Which was usually a waste of time . Apple talked Appletalk, not TCP/IP.

    Only MUCH later did they reluctantly implement SMB to be compatible with Mocrosoft, and both finally transition to native TCP.IP

    But not NFS...


    Only in firms whose business was Graphic Art did the 'creatives' have Macintoshes.
    I think some games companies had them so they could port games.

    Sounds like decades ago.
    --
    Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
    Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tom Elam@thomas.e.elam@gmail.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 17:26:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 4/8/26 3:37 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    Actually its the husband that drives the Volvo, she has a SoobyRoo - the
    one whose engines are junk after 5 years, like her apple devices

    The pre-2010 boxer engines had some serious gasket issues. But lately
    not so much.

    Subaru engines are generally considered reliable, with many lasting over 200,000–300,000 miles with strict maintenance. They are known for
    longevity but require consistent, careful maintenance regarding oil and cooling systems to avoid issues like head gasket failures in older
    models or oil consumption in newer ones. The key is changing oil every 6 months or 6,000 miles. The CVT needs a fluid change every 30,000 too.
    And other scheduled maintenance done on time. Both my Subees came with lifetime drive train warranties.

    Then too, this Crosstrek:

    https://www.subaruxvforum.com/threads/this-2015-subaru-crosstrek-went-a-million-miles-–-here’s-what-failed.191872/

    My iPad Gen 7 is 8 years old, just got an update yesterday, and still
    running as good as new. After years with Android I bought an iPhone 14
    Pro. Still as good as new, updated to iOS 26, and has me lasted longer
    than anything but my Blackberry of the late 1990's
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 21:51:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    In comp.os.linux.misc Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote:

    On 08/04/2026 20:05, Stefan Ram wrote:
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
    :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their
    :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to
    :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most automobile owners >>> :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point A to
    :point B".

    Car analogies tend to be a somewhat bad medium. As for this one
    specifically: how do car owners view their cars exactly?

    Is it plausible to expect all of them view cars in the same way? You
    won't have a subset who prefers knowing how it operates, and a subset
    which strongly dislikes knowing details, and all the intermediate
    options?

    People who prefer driving stick with gear changes, and people who want automatic?

    Those who do not care about the energy source, those who use at least
    some sort of electric power, those who prefer gasoline, those who are
    into diesel...

    Of course, but note that you said "subset". I.e., not the entire set.

    Go query a group of random car owners and ask how they have maintenance performed on their cars. Assuming you don't bias your result by
    intentionally picking from a group known to be "hands on" you will find
    that even what I myself would consider basic maintenance (simple engine
    oil and filter change) is something that, likely, zero of them perform themselves. Increase the difficulty level some notches (replace door
    lock actuator inside passenger door, replace shock absorbers, replace
    timing chain and gears, replace water pump, replace alternator, replace
    flex plate between engine and transmission torque converter, all of
    which I have done myself over the years) and you'll find an ever
    smaller number of car owners that could perform that maintence job.

    In fact, according to this webpage, less than 50% of American car
    drivers even know how to change a flat tire, and that is a task that
    the owner's manuals actually explain how to perform:

    <https://www.automotive-fleet.com/10245052/less-than-50-of-american-drivers-know-how-to-change-a-tire>

    The over 50% in that web pages survey group have zero hands on
    knowledge about their cars internal operation. The get in, fasten
    safety belts, insert and turn key (or press a button depending on age
    of the car) and magically it allows them to get from point A to point
    B. I.e., the car is just a transportation tool, they leave the "how it
    works, how do I fix it" effort to someone else.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 21:54:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> wrote:
    On 08/04/2026 20:19, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote:

    [..]

    "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data
    indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with
    approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work. As

    30 to 44 % of *what*? Who is maintaining a world-wide roster, or roster
    of rosters, of "professional developers"? Who counts as a "developer"?
    Are academic researches qualified? Only people whose job position is
    directly software development? Only people who pay Apple some fee?

    I have no idea, but:

    of 2022, Apple announced over 34 million registered developers across
    its ecosystem, though this includes iOS/iPad developers rather than
    only macOS laptop users."

    A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives 34% of
    its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know if one can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad).

    Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop software" and instead likely "develop other outputs", i.e., artwork
    using photoshop, videos using whatever video creation tools exist for
    the mac, etc. And to that 66% the computer is a tool used to
    accomplish whatever else it is they are doing/creating.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Ames@commodorejohn@gmail.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Apr 8 15:20:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 21:54:08 -0000 (UTC)
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

    A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives
    34% of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know
    if one can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad).

    Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop software" and instead likely "develop other outputs", i.e., artwork
    using photoshop, videos using whatever video creation tools exist for
    the mac, etc. And to that 66% the computer is a tool used to
    accomplish whatever else it is they are doing/creating.

    While you're correct, 34% is, if clearly a minority, a really very *substantial* minority, much higher than I woulda guesstimated. I'm
    sure that's skewed by the fact that iOS development requires ownership
    of a Mac (so anyone selling a mobile app on Apple's platform is ipso
    facto a Mac user,) but still. I'd be interested to compare with other
    platforms (you can cross-develop for both Windows and *nix on either,
    if you want,) but I expect it'd be harder to come by reliable numbers...

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 03:43:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 15:20:05 -0700, John Ames wrote:

    While you're correct, 34% is, if clearly a minority, a really very *substantial* minority, much higher than I woulda guesstimated. I'm sure that's skewed by the fact that iOS development requires ownership of a
    Mac (so anyone selling a mobile app on Apple's platform is ipso facto a
    Mac user,) but still. I'd be interested to compare with other platforms
    (you can cross-develop for both Windows and *nix on either, if you
    want,) but I expect it'd be harder to come by reliable numbers...

    We had a project to develop an iOS app in conjunction with an Android app using Xamarin so we did buy a Mac Mini. The unboxing was interesting with programming and qa poking at it and wondering what to do with the thing.
    We eventually dropped the iOS attempt as being too much of a hassle for a proprietary, limited distribution app. At least then on Android you could sideload an apk.

    I did like the form factor of the Mini and bought a Beelink mini to play
    with. It came with Windows 11 Pro that lasted a couple of days before it became a Linux box. It's worked out really well.

    I don't know what ever happened to the Mini, probably on a shelf or in a
    desk drawer someplace.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 03:51:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 20:37:39 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    Actually its the husband that drives the Volvo, she has a SoobyRoo - the
    one whose engines are junk after 5 years, like her apple devices

    My ex has an iPhone. She says it's an iPhone 4 but I take that with a
    grain of salt. She also says she has dropped it a number of times. If it really is a 4 it's been remarkably durable.

    One drawback she found is her insulin pump has an Android app but nothing
    for iOS so that interface is a separate device.

    Suburus Foresters, including a black Labrador retriever with a red
    neckerchief are standard issue here. They seem to hold up okay.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 03:57:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 22:48:50 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

    On 08/04/2026 21:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    [..]

    Actually its the husband that drives the Volvo, she has a SoobyRoo -
    the one whose engines are junk after 5 years, like her apple devices

    Sorry to hear that. My Mac mini died on me after 11 years of use, so
    YMMV.

    In companies I visited, plebs had Winders and the boss had a Mac and we
    had to connect the fucking things up to the network. Which was usually
    a waste of time . Apple talked Appletalk, not TCP/IP.

    Only MUCH later did they reluctantly implement SMB to be compatible
    with Mocrosoft, and both finally transition to native TCP.IP

    But not NFS...


    Only in firms whose business was Graphic Art did the 'creatives' have
    Macintoshes.
    I think some games companies had them so they could port games.

    Sounds like decades ago.

    That was the idea I formulated decades ago; Apples == artsy-craftsy. I
    know very little about them. Nobody ever wanted to pay me to develop
    software for Apple devices nad I was never curious enough to buy one. My experience with an iPod Shuffle and the iTunes app on Windows wasn't a
    glowing recommendation.




    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Nuno Silva@nunojsilva@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 10:21:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote:

    On 08/04/2026 20:19, Nuno Silva wrote:
    On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote:

    [..]

    "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data
    indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with
    approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work. As

    30 to 44 % of *what*? Who is maintaining a world-wide roster, or roster
    of rosters, of "professional developers"? Who counts as a "developer"?
    Are academic researches qualified? Only people whose job position is
    directly software development? Only people who pay Apple some fee?

    I have no idea, but:

    of 2022, Apple announced over 34 million registered developers across
    its ecosystem, though this includes iOS/iPad developers rather than
    only macOS laptop users."

    A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives 34%
    of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know if one
    can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad).

    Ah, ok. I was expecting this to be about a percentage of the whole
    universe of developers, not of users. (Which is also an interesting way
    to view this, merely not the point of view I was thinking of (one that,
    while interesting, really poses serious logistical challenges).)
    --
    Nuno Silva
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 11:52:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-04-08 23:51, Rich wrote:
    In comp.os.linux.misc Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote:

    On 08/04/2026 20:05, Stefan Ram wrote:
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
    :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their
    :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to
    :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most automobile owners
    :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point A to >>>> :point B".

    Car analogies tend to be a somewhat bad medium. As for this one
    specifically: how do car owners view their cars exactly?

    Is it plausible to expect all of them view cars in the same way? You
    won't have a subset who prefers knowing how it operates, and a subset
    which strongly dislikes knowing details, and all the intermediate
    options?

    People who prefer driving stick with gear changes, and people who want
    automatic?

    Those who do not care about the energy source, those who use at least
    some sort of electric power, those who prefer gasoline, those who are
    into diesel...

    Of course, but note that you said "subset". I.e., not the entire set.

    Go query a group of random car owners and ask how they have maintenance performed on their cars. Assuming you don't bias your result by intentionally picking from a group known to be "hands on" you will find
    that even what I myself would consider basic maintenance (simple engine
    oil and filter change) is something that, likely, zero of them perform themselves.

    It is conceptually easy, but it is messy. And then there is the
    difficulty of disposing of the old oil according to the regulations.
    Then there is the detail that in some cars you also have to replace
    little things like a gasket every time you remove the oil bolt.

    But I recently saw an advert for a sort of garage where the owner does
    the job and rents the space and the tools.

    Increase the difficulty level some notches (replace door
    lock actuator inside passenger door, replace shock absorbers, replace
    timing chain and gears, replace water pump, replace alternator, replace
    flex plate between engine and transmission torque converter, all of
    which I have done myself over the years) and you'll find an ever
    smaller number of car owners that could perform that maintence job.


    While I know the theory of how to do some of that, some of the tasks you describe are physically hard to do.


    In fact, according to this webpage, less than 50% of American car
    drivers even know how to change a flat tire, and that is a task that
    the owner's manuals actually explain how to perform:

    <https://www.automotive-fleet.com/10245052/less-than-50-of-american-drivers-know-how-to-change-a-tire>

    There was talk about having that on the driving exam here.


    The over 50% in that web pages survey group have zero hands on
    knowledge about their cars internal operation. The get in, fasten
    safety belts, insert and turn key (or press a button depending on age
    of the car) and magically it allows them to get from point A to point
    B. I.e., the car is just a transportation tool, they leave the "how it works, how do I fix it" effort to someone else.

    My car has a lot of modern technology that was not even mentioned in the
    car internal book I read twenty years ago. Plus the electronics.

    The only thing I messed with with my current car is replacing the head
    light bulbs. And I think they ended a bit too high. Oh, yes, I had a
    puncture, and the "repair kit" did not work. This car has no spare wheel.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Bokma@contact@johnbokma.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 12:07:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 08/04/2026 23:54, Rich wrote:
    In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> wrote:

    [..]

    A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives 34% of
    its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know if one can
    actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad).

    Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop software"

    Not everyone who develops on a mac registers. I am not registered nor
    are my co-workers. No idea how large that pool is.
    --
    Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
    Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 11:51:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 08/04/2026 22:26, Tom Elam wrote:
    My iPad Gen 7 is 8 years old, just got an update yesterday, and still running as good as new. After years with Android I bought an iPhone 14
    Pro. Still as good as new, updated to iOS 26, and has me lasted longer
    than anything but my Blackberry of the late 1990's

    This HP desktop is probably around 11 years old. It runs the latest
    Linux editions perfectly well.

    My 8 year old android phone is on its third battery and second screen.
    Its just as shitty as an I-phone but it is neither expensive nor silver
    and shiny
    --
    WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 11:53:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 08/04/2026 23:20, John Ames wrote:
    On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 21:54:08 -0000 (UTC)
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

    A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives
    34% of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know
    if one can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad).

    Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop
    software" and instead likely "develop other outputs", i.e., artwork
    using photoshop, videos using whatever video creation tools exist for
    the mac, etc. And to that 66% the computer is a tool used to
    accomplish whatever else it is they are doing/creating.

    While you're correct, 34% is, if clearly a minority, a really very *substantial* minority, much higher than I woulda guesstimated. I'm
    sure that's skewed by the fact that iOS development requires ownership
    of a Mac (so anyone selling a mobile app on Apple's platform is ipso
    facto a Mac user,) but still. I'd be interested to compare with other platforms (you can cross-develop for both Windows and *nix on either,
    if you want,) but I expect it'd be harder to come by reliable numbers...

    I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program?
    My guess is that its over 60%
    --
    "And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

    Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14


    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 11:54:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 09/04/2026 04:51, rbowman wrote:
    Suburus Foresters, including a black Labrador retriever with a red neckerchief are standard issue here. They seem to hold up okay.

    Sounds like home...
    --
    "And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

    Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14


    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 13:09:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-04-09 12:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 08/04/2026 23:20, John Ames wrote:
    On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 21:54:08 -0000 (UTC)
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

    A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives
    34% of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know
    if one can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad).

    Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop
    software" and instead likely "develop other outputs", i.e., artwork
    using photoshop, videos using whatever video creation tools exist for
    the mac, etc.  And to that 66% the computer is a tool used to
    accomplish whatever else it is they are doing/creating.

    While you're correct, 34% is, if clearly a minority, a really very
    *substantial* minority, much higher than I woulda guesstimated. I'm
    sure that's skewed by the fact that iOS development requires ownership
    of a Mac (so anyone selling a mobile app on Apple's platform is ipso
    facto a Mac user,) but still. I'd be interested to compare with other
    platforms (you can cross-develop for both Windows and *nix on either,
    if you want,) but I expect it'd be harder to come by reliable numbers...

    I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program?
    My guess is that its over 60%


    Depends how you define "program". Programmer for money, or a
    contributor? Program for himself only, often, or occasionally?
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 12:23:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 09/04/2026 12:09, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-04-09 12:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 08/04/2026 23:20, John Ames wrote:
    On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 21:54:08 -0000 (UTC)
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

    A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives
    34% of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know
    if one can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad).

    Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop
    software" and instead likely "develop other outputs", i.e., artwork
    using photoshop, videos using whatever video creation tools exist for
    the mac, etc.  And to that 66% the computer is a tool used to
    accomplish whatever else it is they are doing/creating.

    While you're correct, 34% is, if clearly a minority, a really very
    *substantial* minority, much higher than I woulda guesstimated. I'm
    sure that's skewed by the fact that iOS development requires ownership
    of a Mac (so anyone selling a mobile app on Apple's platform is ipso
    facto a Mac user,) but still. I'd be interested to compare with other
    platforms (you can cross-develop for both Windows and *nix on either,
    if you want,) but I expect it'd be harder to come by reliable numbers... >>>
    I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program?
    My guess is that its over 60%


    Depends how you define "program". Programmer for money, or a
    contributor? Program for himself only, often, or occasionally?


    All of the above.
    --
    The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
    private property.

    Karl Marx


    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Bokma@contact@johnbokma.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 14:15:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 09/04/2026 12:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program?
    My guess is that its over 60%

    AI response:

    While there is no exact, single percentage for the total number of Linux
    users who program, Linux is the dominant operating system among
    professional developers and IT professionals.

    Data indicates that:

    High Adoption Among Developers: Roughly 78.5% of developers globally use
    Linux as a primary or secondary operating system.

    Workplace Usage: In 2024 surveys, a combined total of over 74% of
    developers reported using various desktop Linux distributions (Ubuntu,
    Debian, Arch, etc.) for their professional work.

    Specific Distribution Use: As of 2025, approximately 27.7% of software developers use Ubuntu for professional purposes, followed by Debian at
    10.4%.
    --
    Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
    Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Ames@commodorejohn@gmail.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 07:59:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 9 Apr 2026 14:15:11 +0200
    John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> wrote:

    AI response:

    For the love of $DEITY, people, *stop doing this.* "AI" is a word-salad generator and does not know fact from fiction. If you can't be assed to research, don't pretend you have something more than a wild-ass guess.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Bokma@contact@johnbokma.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 17:24:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 09/04/2026 16:59, John Ames wrote:
    On Thu, 9 Apr 2026 14:15:11 +0200
    John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> wrote:

    AI response:

    For the love of $DEITY, people, *stop doing this.* "AI" is a word-salad generator and does not know fact from fiction. If you can't be assed to research, don't pretend you have something more than a wild-ass guess.

    I link to the page it got the result from next time.
    --
    Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
    Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tom Elam@thomas.e.elam@gmail.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 12:34:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 4/9/26 6:51 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 08/04/2026 22:26, Tom Elam wrote:
    My iPad Gen 7 is 8 years old, just got an update yesterday, and still
    running as good as new. After years with Android I bought an iPhone 14
    Pro. Still as good as new, updated to iOS 26, and has me lasted longer
    than anything but my Blackberry of the late 1990's

    This HP desktop is probably around 11 years old. It runs the latest
    Linux editions perfectly well.

    My 8 year old android phone is on its third battery and second screen.
    Its just as shitty as an I-phone but it is neither expensive nor silver
    and shiny



    Also have 2 HP 9 year old laptops both running Windows 11 v 25H2 via the
    very clever FLY11. As far as M$ knows they are "legal" and getting all updates. Both have Windows-only software.

    All of my Android phone and tablet experiments were, in the end, not
    very satisfying.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From -hh@recscuba_google@huntzinger.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 13:25:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 4/9/26 08:15, John Bokma wrote:
    On 09/04/2026 12:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program?
    My guess is that its over 60%

    AI response:

    ...

    Data indicates that:

    High Adoption Among Developers: Roughly 78.5% of developers globally use Linux as a primary or secondary operating system.

    But that AI got the question wrong, so it provided an erroneous answer"

    The question asked was: "how many of Set L perform task P?".

    What AI answered was: "how many of task P belong to Set L?".


    FYI, you didn't catch the mistake either.


    -hh
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From -hh@recscuba_google@huntzinger.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 13:37:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 4/9/26 05:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-04-08 23:51, Rich wrote:
    In comp.os.linux.misc Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote:

    On 08/04/2026 20:05, Stefan Ram wrote:
    Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote or quoted:
    :The /typical/ Mac user [1] who is the person Apple targets in their >>>>> :marketing is someone who views "a computer" as simply a tool to
    :accomplish some other task(s), in the same way that most
    automobile owners
    :view their car as a "means for personal transportation from point
    A to
    :point B".

    Car analogies tend to be a somewhat bad medium. As for this one
    specifically: how do car owners view their cars exactly?

    Is it plausible to expect all of them view cars in the same way? You
    won't have a subset who prefers knowing how it operates, and a subset
    which strongly dislikes knowing details, and all the intermediate
    options?

    People who prefer driving stick with gear changes, and people who want
    automatic?

    Those who do not care about the energy source, those who use at least
    some sort of electric power, those who prefer gasoline, those who are
    into diesel...

    Of course, but note that you said "subset".  I.e., not the entire set.

    Go query a group of random car owners and ask how they have maintenance
    performed on their cars.  Assuming you don't bias your result by
    intentionally picking from a group known to be "hands on" you will find
    that even what I myself would consider basic maintenance (simple engine
    oil and filter change) is something that, likely, zero of them perform
    themselves.

    It is conceptually easy, but it is messy.

    It used to be easier. Modern cars often now have electronic "oil wear" systems that require a digital computer reset too/etc.

    And then there is the
    difficulty of disposing of the old oil according to the regulations.

    Not really a biggie IMO, for many municipal recycling centers (or
    "cleanup days") will accept used oil, filters, etc.

    Then there is the detail that in some cars you also have to replace
    little things like a gasket every time you remove the oil bolt.

    Or flip it over <g>. But in any case, these small details are
    relatively minor.


    But I recently saw an advert for a sort of garage where the owner does
    the job and rents the space and the tools.

    Those have been around for decades.


    Increase the difficulty level some notches (replace door
    lock actuator inside passenger door, replace shock absorbers, replace
    timing chain and gears, replace water pump, replace alternator, replace
    flex plate between engine and transmission torque converter, all of
    which I have done myself over the years) and you'll find an ever
    smaller number of car owners that could perform that maintence job.

    While I know the theory of how to do some of that, some of the tasks you describe are physically hard to do.

    Just takes more time for the shadetree mechanic who hasn't performed the
    task before. I replaced a car battery last summer and because of its dimensional constraints with the new battery being slightly larger, what should have been an easy-enough swap became a 2+ hour hassle.


    In fact, according to this webpage, less than 50% of American car
    drivers even know how to change a flat tire, and that is a task that
    the owner's manuals actually explain how to perform:

    <https://www.automotive-fleet.com/10245052/less-than-50-of-american-
    drivers-know-how-to-change-a-tire>

    There was talk about having that on the driving exam here.

    Decades too late, as more & more new models today don't even provision a
    spare tire. Even so, tire technology has become profoundly better over
    the past fifty years, such that flats have become quite rare. Locally, probably ~80% of the flats I've gotten have come fairly shortly after
    we've had a major weather event, which is where nails/screws/debris get
    washed into the roadway to become a tire puncture.


    The over 50% in that web pages survey group have zero hands on
    knowledge about their cars internal operation.  The get in, fasten
    safety belts, insert and turn key (or press a button depending on age
    of the car) and magically it allows them to get from point A to point
    B.  I.e., the car is just a transportation tool, they leave the "how it
    works, how do I fix it" effort to someone else.

    My car has a lot of modern technology that was not even mentioned in the
    car internal book I read twenty years ago. Plus the electronics.

    The only thing I messed with with my current car is replacing the head
    light bulbs. And I think they ended a bit too high. Oh, yes, I had a puncture, and the "repair kit" did not work. This car has no spare wheel.

    Getting back to the source for the analogy motivation, perhaps a better
    way to have phrased the analogy question is instead of "do you do your
    own wrenching?" to ask it as a "have you ever?". Personally, I've done
    plenty of stuff in the past, but I have the luxury today of being able
    to pay someone else instead of having to crawl under a car on ramps on
    an ice-cold driveway on a nippy fall day.

    -hh
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Bokma@contact@johnbokma.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 20:09:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 09/04/2026 19:25, -hh wrote:
    On 4/9/26 08:15, John Bokma wrote:
    On 09/04/2026 12:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program?
    My guess is that its over 60%

    AI response:

    ...

    Data indicates that:

    High Adoption Among Developers: Roughly 78.5% of developers globally
    use Linux as a primary or secondary operating system.

    But that AI got the question wrong, so it provided an erroneous answer"

    The question asked was: "how many of Set L perform task P?".

    What AI answered was: "how many of task P belong to Set L?".


    FYI, you didn't catch the mistake either.

    Good point. I nor Claude.ai could find an answer :-D.
    --
    Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
    Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 19:14:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 9 Apr 2026 12:07:24 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

    On 08/04/2026 23:54, Rich wrote:
    In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> wrote:

    [..]

    A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives 34%
    of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know if one
    can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad).

    Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop
    software"

    Not everyone who develops on a mac registers. I am not registered nor
    are my co-workers. No idea how large that pool is.

    Do you develop internal applications? Can macs install third party
    software without going through the Apple store? I'm not familiar with the ecosystem but our attempt at an iOS app was dropped because of the store requirements. it wasn't worth the time to jump through the hoops.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 19:17:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 9 Apr 2026 11:52:57 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    It is conceptually easy, but it is messy. And then there is the
    difficulty of disposing of the old oil according to the regulations.
    Then there is the detail that in some cars you also have to replace
    little things like a gasket every time you remove the oil bolt.

    One of the local auto parts stores is happy to take the used oil. I
    thought they were selling it to recyclers but I found they use it to heat
    the shop in the winter.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 19:20:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 9 Apr 2026 13:37:39 -0400, -hh wrote:

    It used to be easier. Modern cars often now have electronic "oil wear" systems that require a digital computer reset too/etc.

    My Toyota only requires holding down the odometer button while turning the ignition on.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Bokma@contact@johnbokma.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 21:28:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 09/04/2026 21:14, rbowman wrote:
    On Thu, 9 Apr 2026 12:07:24 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

    On 08/04/2026 23:54, Rich wrote:
    In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> wrote:

    [...]

    Not everyone who develops on a mac registers. I am not registered nor
    are my co-workers. No idea how large that pool is.

    Do you develop internal applications?

    Not exclusively. I also develop open source as a hobby, see sig.

    Can macs install third party
    software without going through the Apple store?

    Yes. For example the terminal emulator I use, alacritty, is available
    outside of the App store ( https://alacritty.org/ )

    I'm not familiar with the
    ecosystem but our attempt at an iOS app was dropped because of the store requirements. it wasn't worth the time to jump through the hoops.

    iOS used to be limited to one App Store but if I recall correctly in
    Europe there are alternatives.
    --
    Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
    Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Alan@nuh-uh@nope.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 12:53:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-04-09 12:14, rbowman wrote:
    On Thu, 9 Apr 2026 12:07:24 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

    On 08/04/2026 23:54, Rich wrote:
    In comp.os.linux.misc John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> wrote:

    [..]

    A user base of 100+ million and 34 million registered devs gives 34%
    of its user base developing something using a Mac (I don't know if one >>>> can actually develop an iOS/iPad app completely on an iPad).

    Which leaves 66% (100 minus 34) of the user base that do not "develop
    software"

    Not everyone who develops on a mac registers. I am not registered nor
    are my co-workers. No idea how large that pool is.

    Do you develop internal applications? Can macs install third party
    software without going through the Apple store? I'm not familiar with the ecosystem but our attempt at an iOS app was dropped because of the store requirements. it wasn't worth the time to jump through the hoops.

    Yes: Macs can install third party software without going through the
    Apple App Store for macOS.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 22:06:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-04-09 19:37, -hh wrote:
    On 4/9/26 05:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-04-08 23:51, Rich wrote:
    In comp.os.linux.misc Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 2026-04-08, John Bokma wrote:

    ...

    And then there is the difficulty of disposing of the old oil according
    to the regulations.

    Not really a biggie IMO, for many municipal recycling centers (or
    "cleanup days") will accept used oil, filters, etc.

    Then there is the detail that in some cars you also have to replace
    little things like a gasket every time you remove the oil bolt.

    Or flip it over <g>.  But in any case, these small details are
    relatively minor.

    It is time. Going to the garage to buy the stuff.



    But I recently saw an advert for a sort of garage where the owner does
    the job and rents the space and the tools.

    Those have been around for decades.

    Not here, no. Maybe in Madrid.



    Increase the difficulty level some notches (replace door
    lock actuator inside passenger door, replace shock absorbers, replace
    timing chain and gears, replace water pump, replace alternator, replace
    flex plate between engine and transmission torque converter, all of
    which I have done myself over the years) and you'll find an ever
    smaller number of car owners that could perform that maintence job.

    While I know the theory of how to do some of that, some of the tasks
    you describe are physically hard to do.

    Just takes more time for the shadetree mechanic who hasn't performed the task before.  I replaced a car battery last summer and because of its dimensional constraints with the new battery being slightly larger, what should have been an easy-enough swap became a 2+ hour hassle.

    Ah, yes, I have replaced the battery more than once, in the past.




    In fact, according to this webpage, less than 50% of American car
    drivers even know how to change a flat tire, and that is a task that
    the owner's manuals actually explain how to perform:

    <https://www.automotive-fleet.com/10245052/less-than-50-of-american-
    drivers-know-how-to-change-a-tire>

    There was talk about having that on the driving exam here.

    Decades too late, as more & more new models today don't even provision a spare tire.  Even so, tire technology has become profoundly better over
    the past fifty years, such that flats have become quite rare.  Locally, probably ~80% of the flats I've gotten have come fairly shortly after
    we've had a major weather event, which is where nails/screws/debris get washed into the roadway to become a tire puncture.

    I got a screw in my tire about a year ago. And the thread meant the
    thing leaked air fast. Probably happened in a parking.

    My car doesn't have a spare tire, and the brand doesn't even sell it if
    I ask. There is a space in the boot that is clearly designed for it.


    The over 50% in that web pages survey group have zero hands on
    knowledge about their cars internal operation.  The get in, fasten
    safety belts, insert and turn key (or press a button depending on age
    of the car) and magically it allows them to get from point A to point
    B.  I.e., the car is just a transportation tool, they leave the "how it >>> works, how do I fix it" effort to someone else.

    My car has a lot of modern technology that was not even mentioned in
    the car internal book I read twenty years ago. Plus the electronics.

    The only thing I messed with with my current car is replacing the head
    light bulbs. And I think they ended a bit too high. Oh, yes, I had a
    puncture, and the "repair kit" did not work. This car has no spare wheel.

    Getting back to the source for the analogy motivation, perhaps a better
    way to have phrased the analogy question is instead of "do you do your
    own wrenching?" to ask it as a "have you ever?".  Personally, I've done plenty of stuff in the past, but I have the luxury today of being able
    to pay someone else instead of having to crawl under a car on ramps on
    an ice-cold driveway on a nippy fall day.

    -hh

    Yep.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Thu Apr 9 22:07:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-04-09 21:17, rbowman wrote:
    On Thu, 9 Apr 2026 11:52:57 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    It is conceptually easy, but it is messy. And then there is the
    difficulty of disposing of the old oil according to the regulations.
    Then there is the detail that in some cars you also have to replace
    little things like a gasket every time you remove the oil bolt.

    One of the local auto parts stores is happy to take the used oil. I
    thought they were selling it to recyclers but I found they use it to heat
    the shop in the winter.


    LOL. That's probably forbidden here.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Fri Apr 10 03:34:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 9 Apr 2026 22:06:19 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    My car doesn't have a spare tire, and the brand doesn't even sell it if
    I ask. There is a space in the boot that is clearly designed for it.

    My Toyota has a donut. Since I have two sets of rims I was going to
    replace it with a real tire. No way. I do carry a plug kit and a air pump.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Anssi Saari@anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Fri Apr 10 14:22:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

    I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program?
    My guess is that its over 60%

    Doesn't that depend on what "actually program" means? I write small
    things to automate stuff and process data but is that programming when
    mostly that is short-ish scripts of less than 100 lines?
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Bokma@contact@johnbokma.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Fri Apr 10 13:35:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 09/04/2026 21:14, rbowman wrote:

    Can macs install third party
    software without going through the Apple store?

    I completely forgot to mention Mac Ports / Homebrew

    For the former there are 40,588 active ports [1] available. For example,
    if I need glow I can just use

    sudo port install glow

    To install the glow CLI markdown reader

    For the latter [2] I couldn't find any statistics. I haven't used
    homebrew but one can just use:

    brew install wget

    to install wget

    [1] https://ports.macports.org/
    [2] https://brew.sh/
    --
    Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
    Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Fri Apr 10 16:21:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 10/04/2026 12:22, Anssi Saari wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

    I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program?
    My guess is that its over 60%

    Doesn't that depend on what "actually program" means? I write small
    things to automate stuff and process data but is that programming when
    mostly that is short-ish scripts of less than 100 lines?

    Considering that the average windows user cant program beyond an Excel spreadsheet, I'd say that it is...
    --
    WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Fri Apr 10 18:16:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 13:35:46 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

    I completely forgot to mention Mac Ports / Homebrew

    Is homebrew similar to yay in the Arch world? Arch has AUR (Arch User Repository) in addition to the standard repositories. For many of the
    packages yay downloads the source, builds it, and installs it like you
    would do manually from github.

    Some of the packages are available as bins, things like browsers that
    would take forever to build.

    I've seen references to brew and homebrew in apps that have installation instructions for Apple, Windows, and Linux but didn't know how it worked.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John Bokma@contact@johnbokma.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Fri Apr 10 20:31:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 10/04/2026 20:16, rbowman wrote:
    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 13:35:46 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

    I completely forgot to mention Mac Ports / Homebrew

    Is homebrew similar to yay in the Arch world? Arch has AUR (Arch User Repository) in addition to the standard repositories. For many of the packages yay downloads the source, builds it, and installs it like you
    would do manually from github.

    Some of the packages are available as bins, things like browsers that
    would take forever to build.

    I've seen references to brew and homebrew in apps that have installation instructions for Apple, Windows, and Linux but didn't know how it worked.

    I've only experience with Mac ports, which indeed builds from source. I
    have been using it for years and no complaints (so far) except for the
    build time :-D.

    Homebrew has binary packages (bottles). When I switch to Apple silicon
    (most likely later this year if the Mac mini M5 comes out) I want to
    give Homebrew a try.

    There is also Nix to script the configuration in a declarative way of
    MacOS and has also an open source package repository. But I have no
    experience with this yet and not sure if this is really better than
    Homebrew (as the site claims).

    See https://nixcademy.com/posts/nix-on-macos/
    --
    Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
    Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Sat Apr 11 00:22:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 20:09:10 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

    "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data
    indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work.
    ...

    But what are they developing *for*? Macs are not really suited to cross-development for Windows or Linux platforms. And most corporate
    services are in the cloud nowadays, which is primarily Linux-based.

    Unless maybe you count Web designers as “developers”? I can imagine a
    lot of them use Macs.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Richard Kettlewell@invalid@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Sat Apr 11 09:52:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
    On Wed, 8 Apr 2026 20:09:10 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

    "While there is no exact total count of developers using Macs, data
    indicates that macOS is a premier platform for development, with
    approximately 30–44% of professional developers using it for work.
    ...

    But what are they developing *for*? Macs are not really suited to cross-development for Windows or Linux platforms. And most corporate
    services are in the cloud nowadays, which is primarily Linux-based.

    Several of my colleages use Macs. Our core functionality is in embedded
    devices with Power or Arm application cores and the cross-compilers for
    those can run on anything you can be bothered to build them for. We also
    have a lot of Python and you can develop and test that anywhere. The
    bulk of our code is not platform-dependent and the customer-facing
    builds and the tests it has to pass are run in a controlled environement
    so most of the time it doesn’t make much difference what the development environment is. A common configuration is to use VSCode’s remote mode,
    so the IDE runs locally (e.g. on a laptop) but compile/test happens on a
    remote Linux host.
    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Sat Apr 11 21:54:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Fri, 10 Apr 2026 14:22:52 +0300, Anssi Saari wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

    I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program? My
    guess is that its over 60%

    Doesn't that depend on what "actually program" means? I write small
    things to automate stuff and process data but is that programming
    when mostly that is short-ish scripts of less than 100 lines?

    Shell scripts, Python scripts, Perl, JavaScript, even (shudder) PHP
    code -- absolutely that would all count as “programming”.

    Back in the 1980s they used to talk about a “software crisis” -- too
    few programmers taking too long to write all the code that needed
    writing. That went away precisely as a result of the adoption of very-high-level languages like shell and Python.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marc Haber@mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Sun Apr 12 09:25:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    Back in the 1980s they used to talk about a “software crisis” -- too
    few programmers taking too long to write all the code that needed
    writing. That went away precisely as a result of the adoption of >very-high-level languages like shell and Python.

    I think you forgot perl. perl has been an alternative to shell¹ a
    decade earlier than Python.

    Greetings
    Marc

    ¹ use perl. You want to know shell, and then not use it.
    -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
    Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From -hh@recscuba_google@huntzinger.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Sun Apr 12 10:08:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 4/10/26 07:22, Anssi Saari wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

    I wonder how many people who runs *linux* actually program?
    My guess is that its over 60%

    Doesn't that depend on what "actually program" means? I write small
    things to automate stuff and process data but is that programming when
    mostly that is short-ish scripts of less than 100 lines?

    There's a lot of ambiguities here. For example, the original statement
    wasn't "program" but "developer", but what I think is also quite
    relevant is that both seem to be assuming that the only job description
    of notional interest is something in the IT fields.

    Yet there's ample people out there who have been "Material Developers"
    and "Program Managers" where the product(s) under development/management weren't IT based at all. BTDT for both.

    So for this ambiguous "N% are..." metric, are these non-IT categories
    being included --or excluded-- from the notional count?


    -hh
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tom Elam@thomas.e.elam@gmail.com to comp.os.linux.misc,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Tue Apr 14 07:04:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 4/9/26 1:37 PM, -hh wrote:
    Decades too late, as more & more new models today don't even provision a spare tire.  Even so, tire technology has become profoundly better over
    the past fifty years, such that flats have become quite rare.  Locally, probably ~80% of the flats I've gotten have come fairly shortly after
    we've had a major weather event, which is where nails/screws/debris get washed into the roadway to become a tire puncture.

    You must be kidding. I have replaced way too many tires from sidewall
    breaks after hitting a pothole.
    --- Synchronet 3.21f-Linux NewsLink 1.2