On 4/5/26 7:42 PM, Alan wrote:
You've found a device that you install internally that gives the >>>>>>>> same ports as a "hub" or "docking station"...Kind of like an ATX motherboard would have without all this
...and what I've been trying to tell you is that Thunderbolt
let's you add something quite different:
A PCI expansion CHASSIS.
<https://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo-express-se3e/
overview.html>
That one lets you install up to 3 PCIe cards of all types in
exactly the same manner as you would have installed them if you >>>>>>>> had a machine with internal PCIe slots.
It is this facility that lets you use a Mac Studio...
...or any Mac with Thunderbolt ports as a workstation class device. >>>>>>>
Thunderbolt foolishness. Boycott Apple.
So because the form factor is different, it's automatically worse? >>>>>>
How do you put the computer that has that ATX motherboard into a
laptop bag and take it with you...
...the way I could do with a Thunderbolt expansion chassis and my >>>>>> MacBook Air.
I can have both a portable computer AND a computer with PCIe cards. >>>>>>
:-)
It'd make a lot more sense with a laptop.
And you can DO IT with a laptop, you simpleton.
I literally just said that.
I literally understood you, which is why I commented that it'd make a
lot more sense with a laptop [than the Studio].
But the point is that what you get in either case has all the
attributes you need from a workstation.
It is IRRELEVANT that in one case you have two enclosures and in your
example you have only one.
Is it a mini PC or a workstation?
No sane person could give a straight
answer, because it's trying to be both.
It's Apple brain-damagedThe point is that they can sell one product that will work for some
marketing, they know a few will sell, but it's not where their income
stream is at.
You've found a device that you install internally that gives >>>>>>>>> the same ports as a "hub" or "docking station"...
...and what I've been trying to tell you is that Thunderbolt >>>>>>>>> let's you add something quite different:
A PCI expansion CHASSIS.
<https://www.sonnettech.com/product/echo-express-se3e/
overview.html>
That one lets you install up to 3 PCIe cards of all types in >>>>>>>>> exactly the same manner as you would have installed them if you >>>>>>>>> had a machine with internal PCIe slots.
It is this facility that lets you use a Mac Studio...
...or any Mac with Thunderbolt ports as a workstation class >>>>>>>>> device.
Kind of like an ATX motherboard would have without all this
Thunderbolt foolishness. Boycott Apple.
So because the form factor is different, it's automatically worse? >>>>>>>
How do you put the computer that has that ATX motherboard into a >>>>>>> laptop bag and take it with you...
...the way I could do with a Thunderbolt expansion chassis and my >>>>>>> MacBook Air.
I can have both a portable computer AND a computer with PCIe cards. >>>>>>>
:-)
It'd make a lot more sense with a laptop.
And you can DO IT with a laptop, you simpleton.
I literally just said that.
I literally understood you, which is why I commented that it'd make
a lot more sense with a laptop [than the Studio].
But the point is that what you get in either case has all the
attributes you need from a workstation.
It is IRRELEVANT that in one case you have two enclosures and in your
example you have only one.
Is it a mini PC or a workstation?
Who cares what you call it? What matter is what you can DO with it.
No sane person could give a straight answer, because it's trying to
be both.
Same response.
It's Apple brain-damaged marketing, they know a few will sell, but
it's not where their income stream is at.
The point is that they can sell one product that will work for some
people as a standalone, and work for still more by adding an expansion chassis.
By contrast, a dedicated workstation machine would sell in smaller quantities because it only works well for one of those groups.
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 15:45:31 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
Consider that we work with gigahertz-order clock speeds nowadays.
At those frequencies, an electrical signal can only travel a few
centimetres in a single clock cycle. So the further away the expansion
device is from the CPU, the longer it takes for things to happen. That’s called “latency”. It’s bad.
Apple wants you to put up with latency, but smart people know better.
We have had gigahertz-order CPUs for over 20 years now. There is no "latency". You DO understand that electricity moves at 186,200 miles
per second, right?
How much "latency" are you going to see in a couple feet of cable?
If there was any "latency" we would already be seeing it from 2 foot
long SATA cables going from the motherboard to the drive at the top
of the huge case.
On 2026-04-05 14:35, Tom Elam wrote:
On 4/2/26 4:52 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-04-02 13:42, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 2 Apr 2026 11:25:24 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
On 3/28/26 1:41 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 22:44:24 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
... given that setup and a good external SSD and the speed of
modern ports I really don't see the issue either.
Is that your idea of a “professional” solution -- having to gate >>>>>> PCI-E expansion through a Thunderbolt interface to get back to the >>>>>> PCI-E bus again?
You saw the professionals begging Apple for a less clunky solution. >>>>>> But Apple can no longer satisfy them.
You can buy some incredible Thunderbolt 4 hubs for a lot less than
the extra cost of the discontinued Mac that was priced out of the
market.
I’m sure you can, but given the cost of Apple hardware, is that saying >>>> much?
In other words, there are more cost-effective expansion options
available ... though not from Apple.
So...
...you complain when Apple "makes" you buy everything from them...
...and now you're complaining that Apple supports expansion options,
but doesn't make you buy them from Apple?
Very true. My Mac has a Logitech mouse and keyboard, Plugable docking
station, 2x Seagate external drives, Dell 4k monitor, 2x HP printers,
Office 365, VideoPad and other software substitutes for Apple apps.
None of my cables are genuine Apple. Not single driver download was
required. I did install Logitech Options and HP Smart to get full
access to all those device hardware options. Apple makes it easy to
add non-Apple hardware. Why not?
Other the a mouse, keyboard and monitor what other Mac expansion
options can you even buy?
Did you mean to say "what other Mac expansion options can you even buy?"...
...or "what other Mac expansion options can you even buy from Apple?"?
Because the first version encompasses thousands of products.
On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 17:35:18 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
Other the a mouse, keyboard and monitor what other Mac expansion
options can you even buy?
Not a lot, obviously. That’s why professional workstation users need
their highly-expandable machines.
ALL PCs have USB-C ports.
"Thunderbolt" is just Apple's name for it.
On 4/4/2026 7:56 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 15:45:31 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
Apple wants you to put up with latency, but smart people know better.
Again, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Yes, smart people DO know better. Which clearly rules you out.
This has nothing to do with Apple. ALL PCs have USB-C ports.
"Thunderbolt" is just Apple's name for it. You can plug in USB-C docks
to PCs running Windows and Linux. You can connect multiple monitors, network cables, SSDs and whatever to such docks. It replaces separate video cards, network cards and disk controllers. All on a single cable.
And the Mac Studio line appears to be pretty capable these days.
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 08:03:44 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
And the Mac Studio line appears to be pretty capable these days.
I’m sure it is ... if you can be satisfied with what you get in the
box. If your business requires adaptability to changing conditions,
dealing with new, unexpected challenges, solving whatever problems
customers might throw at you ... then you may find it falls short.
On 2026-04-05 19:49, Nick Charles wrote:
On 4/4/2026 7:56 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 15:45:31 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
Apple wants you to put up with latency, but smart people know better.
Again, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Yes,
smart people DO know better. Which clearly rules you out.
This has nothing to do with Apple. ALL PCs have USB-C ports.
"Thunderbolt" is just Apple's name for it. You can plug in USB-C
docks to PCs running Windows and Linux. You can connect multiple
monitors, network cables, SSDs and whatever to such docks. It
replaces separate video cards, network cards and disk controllers.
All on a single cable.
Thunderbolt is NOT just Apple's name for USB-C.
Thunderbolt is a unique hardware interface that can run ALONGSIDE USB
and now uses the USB-C CONNECTOR.
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 08:03:44 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
And the Mac Studio line appears to be pretty capable these days.
I’m sure it is ... if you can be satisfied with what you get in the
box. If your business requires adaptability to changing conditions,
dealing with new, unexpected challenges, solving whatever problems
customers might throw at you ... then you may find it falls short.
On 4/6/26 4:37 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 08:03:44 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
And the Mac Studio line appears to be pretty capable these days.
I’m sure it is ... if you can be satisfied with what you get in the
box. If your business requires adaptability to changing conditions,
dealing with new, unexpected challenges, solving whatever problems
customers might throw at you ... then you may find it falls short.
You act like Apple crapware requires anything big. The minimum configuration plus 512 GB or more storage for the Studio is all anyone
is likely to need.
On 2026-04-02 08:25, Tom Elam wrote:What is the workstation benefit of a Mac with a PCIe slot apart from
On 3/28/26 1:41 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2026 22:44:24 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
... given that setup and a good external SSD and the speed of modern
ports I really don't see the issue either.
Is that your idea of a “professional” solution -- having to gate PCI-E >>> expansion through a Thunderbolt interface to get back to the PCI-E bus
again?
You saw the professionals begging Apple for a less clunky solution.
But Apple can no longer satisfy them.
You can buy some incredible Thunderbolt 4 hubs for a lot less than the
extra cost of the discontinued Mac that was priced out of the market.
You should just stop pontificating on things about which you have NO understanding.
A "Thunderbolt hub" is NOT a replacement for having PCI expansion slots.
There are products that offers PCI expansion via Thunderbolt, but they
are not referred to as "hubs".
What is the workstation benefit of a Mac with a PCIe slot apart from
storage expansion or 3rd party GPU?
On 2026-04-06 13:37, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 08:03:44 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
And the Mac Studio line appears to be pretty capable these days.
I’m sure it is ... if you can be satisfied with what you get in the
box. If your business requires adaptability to changing conditions,
dealing with new, unexpected challenges, solving whatever problems
customers might throw at you ... then you may find it falls short.
Give a real world example.
On 2026-04-06 14:10, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 4/6/26 4:37 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 08:03:44 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
And the Mac Studio line appears to be pretty capable these days.
I’m sure it is ... if you can be satisfied with what you get in the
box. If your business requires adaptability to changing conditions,
dealing with new, unexpected challenges, solving whatever problems
customers might throw at you ... then you may find it falls short.
You act like Apple crapware requires anything big. The minimum
configuration plus 512 GB or more storage for the Studio is all anyone
is likely to need.
Apple "crapware", Joel? Really?
Haven't you learned better, yet?
On Apr 6, 2026 at 4:55:31 PM MST, "Alan" wrote <10r1h5j$2ffn2$1@dont-email.me>:
On 2026-04-06 13:37, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 08:03:44 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
And the Mac Studio line appears to be pretty capable these days.
I’m sure it is ... if you can be satisfied with what you get in the
box. If your business requires adaptability to changing conditions,
dealing with new, unexpected challenges, solving whatever problems
customers might throw at you ... then you may find it falls short.
Give a real world example.
If you buy a computer and later find you want more memory. My MacBook Air has 16 GB. Fine most of the time but if I could I might bump it up to 32 GB.
Do not get me wrong, I am still very happy with my purchase and would use and recommend Macs to many... and I know there are tradeoffs. Having memory as they do helps to keep chips cheaper and -- more importantly -- adds efficiency, speed, and battery life. It is a fine tradeoff and I have no regrets with the machine.
On 4/6/2026 12:46 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-04-05 19:49, Nick Charles wrote:
On 4/4/2026 7:56 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 15:45:31 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
Apple wants you to put up with latency, but smart people know better.
Again, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Yes,
smart people DO know better. Which clearly rules you out.
This has nothing to do with Apple. ALL PCs have USB-C ports.
"Thunderbolt" is just Apple's name for it. You can plug in USB-C
docks to PCs running Windows and Linux. You can connect multiple
monitors, network cables, SSDs and whatever to such docks. It
replaces separate video cards, network cards and disk controllers. All
on a single cable.
Thunderbolt is NOT just Apple's name for USB-C.
Thunderbolt is a unique hardware interface that can run ALONGSIDE USB
and now uses the USB-C CONNECTOR.
So what is the practical difference? I have several USB-C docks here.
All work the same on my Dell laptop, Mac Mini M4 and iPad Pro.
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 19:00:19 -0400, Nick Charles wrote:
On 4/6/2026 12:46 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-04-05 19:49, Nick Charles wrote:
On 4/4/2026 7:56 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 15:45:31 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
Apple wants you to put up with latency, but smart people know better. >>>>Again, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Yes,
smart people DO know better. Which clearly rules you out.
This has nothing to do with Apple. ALL PCs have USB-C ports.
"Thunderbolt" is just Apple's name for it. You can plug in USB-C
docks to PCs running Windows and Linux. You can connect multiple
monitors, network cables, SSDs and whatever to such docks. It
replaces separate video cards, network cards and disk controllers. All >>>> on a single cable.
Thunderbolt is NOT just Apple's name for USB-C.
Thunderbolt is a unique hardware interface that can run ALONGSIDE USB
and now uses the USB-C CONNECTOR.
So what is the practical difference? I have several USB-C docks here.
All work the same on my Dell laptop, Mac Mini M4 and iPad Pro.
For starters Thunderbolt was developed by Apple and Intel and is a proprietary format. Initially there was a royalty for its use that discouraged many PC manufacturers from using it. This was unfortunate
since it was superior to USB at the time. Additionally since Intel was involved AMD systems found it difficult to be certified.
Yes, it uses the same connector as USB-C, and Thunderbolt is compatible
with USB 2.0, 3.2, and 4 but that does not mean it's the same. Try daisy- chaining USB.
On 4/6/26 8:57 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Apr 6, 2026 at 4:55:31 PM MST, "Alan" wrote
<10r1h5j$2ffn2$1@dont-email.me>:
On 2026-04-06 13:37, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 6 Apr 2026 08:03:44 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
And the Mac Studio line appears to be pretty capable these days.
I’m sure it is ... if you can be satisfied with what you get in the
box. If your business requires adaptability to changing conditions,
dealing with new, unexpected challenges, solving whatever problems
customers might throw at you ... then you may find it falls short.
Give a real world example.
If you buy a computer and later find you want more memory. My MacBook Air has
16 GB. Fine most of the time but if I could I might bump it up to 32 GB.
Do not get me wrong, I am still very happy with my purchase and would use and
recommend Macs to many... and I know there are tradeoffs. Having memory as >> they do helps to keep chips cheaper and -- more importantly -- adds
efficiency, speed, and battery life. It is a fine tradeoff and I have no
regrets with the machine.
This is one problem I have with Apple for a PC. The mini is the only
one I'd want, and I can get something about as good for half the price
from a place like I got my current one from. Likewise, your Air is effectively stuck in RAM. Could I acknowledge laptops aren't as
long-term investments as some other PCs? Probably self-evident that
it's so. But they aren't just disposable, either. Apple better keep 16
GB usable for a while.
On Tue, 07 Apr 2026 00:07:47 GMT, car wrote:
What is the workstation benefit of a Mac with a PCIe slot apart from
storage expansion or 3rd party GPU?
Wanting to add an NVidia GPU seems to be a common need among the
high-end professional market, as mentioned in the posting that started
this thread.
On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 22:49:24 -0400, Nick Charles wrote:
We have had gigahertz-order CPUs for over 20 years now. There is no
"latency". You DO understand that electricity moves at 186,200 miles
per second, right?
No it doesn’t. Typical speed of electrical signals is about half that
of light.
How much "latency" are you going to see in a couple feet of cable?
At gigahertz speeds? Several clock cycles. How many cycles do you need
to complete a PCI-E bus transaction?
*That’s* where the latency comes in.
Remember, we’re talking about high-end professional workstations here,
not ordinary consumer PCs. This market needs expandability beyond just
adding more storage, or even more RAM (which Apple gear can’t do any
more, anyway).
On 4/6/2026 12:46 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2026-04-05 19:49, Nick Charles wrote:
On 4/4/2026 7:56 PM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 4 Apr 2026 15:45:31 -0400, Tom Elam wrote:
Apple wants you to put up with latency, but smart people know better.
Again, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Yes,
smart people DO know better. Which clearly rules you out.
This has nothing to do with Apple. ALL PCs have USB-C ports.
"Thunderbolt" is just Apple's name for it. You can plug in USB-C
docks to PCs running Windows and Linux. You can connect multiple
monitors, network cables, SSDs and whatever to such docks. It
replaces separate video cards, network cards and disk controllers.
All on a single cable.
Thunderbolt is NOT just Apple's name for USB-C.
Thunderbolt is a unique hardware interface that can run ALONGSIDE USB
and now uses the USB-C CONNECTOR.
So what is the practical difference? I have several USB-C docks here. All work the same on my Dell laptop, Mac Mini M4 and iPad Pro.
Companies that bought Macs in the past aren't going to suddenly stop
buying Macs because they dropped support for something that hasn't
been supported well for over 13 years at this point.
The Mac Studio is the continuation of the 2013 Mac Pro concept.
There is no electrical "latency" in a few feet of cabling.
All modern PCs can connect monitors/drives/network cables/whatever
via USB-C and/or Thunderbolt.
It is a fine tradeoff and I have no regrets with the machine.
On 07 Apr 2026 00:57:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
It is a fine tradeoff and I have no regrets with the machine.
You do. Others don’t.
Remember we’re talking about professional workstation users here.
On 07 Apr 2026 00:57:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
It is a fine tradeoff and I have no regrets with the machine.
You do.
Others don’t.
Remember we’re talking about professional workstation users here.
On 2026-04-08 6:04 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On 07 Apr 2026 00:57:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
It is a fine tradeoff and I have no regrets with the machine.
You do. Others don’t.
Remember we’re talking about professional workstation users here.
Mr. Electricity Snit Michael Glasser Prescott Parasite and Computer Guy needs a top-notch Mac for his top-notch trolling.
On 2026-04-08, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-04-08 6:04 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:Indeed!
On 07 Apr 2026 00:57:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
It is a fine tradeoff and I have no regrets with the machine.
You do. Others don’t.
Remember we’re talking about professional workstation users here.
Mr. Electricity Snit Michael Glasser Prescott Parasite and Computer Guy
needs a top-notch Mac for his top-notch trolling.
And the US taxpayers are funding it because snit Michael Glasser
doesn't nor does he have any intention of working for a living.
On 4/5/26 22:59, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 22:49:24 -0400, Nick Charles wrote:
We have had gigahertz-order CPUs for over 20 years now. There is no
"latency". You DO understand that electricity moves at 186,200 miles
per second, right?
No it doesn’t. Typical speed of electrical signals is about half that
of light.
How much "latency" are you going to see in a couple feet of cable?
At gigahertz speeds? Several clock cycles. How many cycles do you need
to complete a PCI-E bus transaction?
You're who raised the point, so you tell us.
*That’s* where the latency comes in.
But does it make any significant difference to a workflow?
Notionally, if the answer to the above is ten additional clock cycles,
on a typical 3GHz CPU, it has added ~3.33 nanoseconds (ns) to the task.
Even if it adds +100 clock cycles, its still ~33 ns (0.033 microseconds)
So how would a sub-sub-μs process increase be noticed?
On a 120 Hz display, its refresh rate is ~8.333 milliseconds between
frames, so adding +100 clock cycles is (0.033μs/8.33ms) = 0.0004% of the per frame time budget. Doesn't sound all that profound to me.
Similarly, if this +100 clocks is per frame of 120Hz video, 2 hours of
video is 864,000 frames, so 28,512 μs = 28.5 milliseconds of delay.
Remember, we’re talking about high-end professional workstations here,
not ordinary consumer PCs. This market needs expandability beyond just
adding more storage, or even more RAM (which Apple gear can’t do any
more, anyway).
Which is why that market shifted ~20 years ago to clusters...right?
On 07 Apr 2026 00:57:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
It is a fine tradeoff and I have no regrets with the machine.
You do. Others don’t.
Remember we’re talking about professional workstation users here.
On 4/7/26 07:06, -hh wrote:
On 4/5/26 22:59, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 22:49:24 -0400, Nick Charles wrote:
We have had gigahertz-order CPUs for over 20 years now. There is no
"latency". You DO understand that electricity moves at 186,200 miles
per second, right?
No it doesn’t. Typical speed of electrical signals is about half that
of light.
How much "latency" are you going to see in a couple feet of cable?
At gigahertz speeds? Several clock cycles. How many cycles do you need
to complete a PCI-E bus transaction?
You're who raised the point, so you tell us.
*That’s* where the latency comes in.
But does it make any significant difference to a workflow?
Notionally, if the answer to the above is ten additional clock cycles,
on a typical 3GHz CPU, it has added ~3.33 nanoseconds (ns) to the task. Even if it adds +100 clock cycles, its still ~33 ns (0.033 microseconds)
So how would a sub-sub-μs process increase be noticed?
On a 120 Hz display, its refresh rate is ~8.333 milliseconds between frames, so adding +100 clock cycles is (0.033μs/8.33ms) = 0.0004% of the per frame time budget. Doesn't sound all that profound to me.
Similarly, if this +100 clocks is per frame of 120Hz video, 2 hours of video is 864,000 frames, so 28,512 μs = 28.5 milliseconds of delay.
Remember, we’re talking about high-end professional workstations here, >> not ordinary consumer PCs. This market needs expandability beyond just
adding more storage, or even more RAM (which Apple gear can’t do any
more, anyway).
Which is why that market shifted ~20 years ago to clusters...right?
"bump". Seems that old Larry 'overlooked' this query.
-hh
At Thu, 9 Apr 2026 20:33:10 -0400, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 4/7/26 07:06, -hh wrote:
On 4/5/26 22:59, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 22:49:24 -0400, Nick Charles wrote:
We have had gigahertz-order CPUs for over 20 years now. There is no
"latency". You DO understand that electricity moves at 186,200 miles >>>>> per second, right?
No it doesn’t. Typical speed of electrical signals is about half that >>>> of light.
How much "latency" are you going to see in a couple feet of cable?
At gigahertz speeds? Several clock cycles. How many cycles do you need >>>> to complete a PCI-E bus transaction?
You're who raised the point, so you tell us.
*That’s* where the latency comes in.
But does it make any significant difference to a workflow?
Notionally, if the answer to the above is ten additional clock cycles,
on a typical 3GHz CPU, it has added ~3.33 nanoseconds (ns) to the task.
Even if it adds +100 clock cycles, its still ~33 ns (0.033 microseconds) >>>
So how would a sub-sub-μs process increase be noticed?
On a 120 Hz display, its refresh rate is ~8.333 milliseconds between
frames, so adding +100 clock cycles is (0.033μs/8.33ms) = 0.0004% of the >>> per frame time budget. Doesn't sound all that profound to me.
Similarly, if this +100 clocks is per frame of 120Hz video, 2 hours of
video is 864,000 frames, so 28,512 μs = 28.5 milliseconds of delay.
Remember, we’re talking about high-end professional workstations here, >>>> not ordinary consumer PCs. This market needs expandability beyond just >>>> adding more storage, or even more RAM (which Apple gear can’t do any >>>> more, anyway).
Which is why that market shifted ~20 years ago to clusters...right?
"bump". Seems that old Larry 'overlooked' this query.
-hh
Clusters have their uses.>
But if you're doing the video editing yourself, you might
have a workstation -- potentially with a few extra controllers...
Don't forget the administrative overhead of maintaining a cluster,
when you can have a 128-thread threadripper workstation for less.
Or at least, you _could_ before RAM prices took off...AI bros are
messing up the market.
On 4/10/26 04:33, vallor wrote:
At Thu, 9 Apr 2026 20:33:10 -0400, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
On 4/7/26 07:06, -hh wrote:
On 4/5/26 22:59, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sun, 5 Apr 2026 22:49:24 -0400, Nick Charles wrote:
We have had gigahertz-order CPUs for over 20 years now. There is no >>>>>> "latency". You DO understand that electricity moves at 186,200 miles >>>>>> per second, right?
No it doesn’t. Typical speed of electrical signals is about half that >>>>> of light.
How much "latency" are you going to see in a couple feet of cable?
At gigahertz speeds? Several clock cycles. How many cycles do you need >>>>> to complete a PCI-E bus transaction?
You're who raised the point, so you tell us.
*That’s* where the latency comes in.
But does it make any significant difference to a workflow?
Notionally, if the answer to the above is ten additional clock cycles, >>>> on a typical 3GHz CPU, it has added ~3.33 nanoseconds (ns) to the task. >>>> Even if it adds +100 clock cycles, its still ~33 ns (0.033 microseconds) >>>>
So how would a sub-sub-μs process increase be noticed?
On a 120 Hz display, its refresh rate is ~8.333 milliseconds between
frames, so adding +100 clock cycles is (0.033μs/8.33ms) = 0.0004% of the >>>> per frame time budget. Doesn't sound all that profound to me.
Similarly, if this +100 clocks is per frame of 120Hz video, 2 hours of >>>> video is 864,000 frames, so 28,512 μs = 28.5 milliseconds of delay.
Remember, we’re talking about high-end professional workstations here, >>>>> not ordinary consumer PCs. This market needs expandability beyond just >>>>> adding more storage, or even more RAM (which Apple gear can’t do any >>>>> more, anyway).
Which is why that market shifted ~20 years ago to clusters...right?
"bump". Seems that old Larry 'overlooked' this query.
-hh
Clusters have their uses.>
But if you're doing the video editing yourself, you might
have a workstation -- potentially with a few extra controllers...
Don't forget the administrative overhead of maintaining a cluster,
when you can have a 128-thread threadripper workstation for less.
Or at least, you _could_ before RAM prices took off...AI bros are
messing up the market.
A fair enough point ... but it doesn't talk to the main thing that Larry
was harping on here, which was increased latency from a PCIe-type GPU connection being passed also through Thunderbolt/USB-4.
-hh
| Sysop: | DaiTengu |
|---|---|
| Location: | Appleton, WI |
| Users: | 1,113 |
| Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
| Uptime: | 492338:07:11 |
| Calls: | 14,238 |
| Files: | 186,312 |
| D/L today: |
4,144 files (1,346M bytes) |
| Messages: | 2,514,917 |