Forth is alive and well, albeit not very common. It is used in embedded systems - it is almost certainly the smallest language and run-time
system where you can have a extendable high-level language, and runs directly on even very small microcontrollers.
On 2024-04-16, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
Forth is alive and well, albeit not very common. It is used in embedded
systems - it is almost certainly the smallest language and run-time
system where you can have a extendable high-level language, and runs
directly on even very small microcontrollers.
It has also been used since circa 1999 as the embedded language of
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
On 16/04/2024 12:58, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
It has also been used since circa 1999 as the embedded language of
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
People who have used Forth a lot tend to be very enthusiastic about it,
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:58:49 -0000 (UTC)
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
So moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that hardly anyone >uses. You can't deny the consistency.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 14:00:16 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
On 16/04/2024 12:58, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
It has also been used since circa 1999 as the embedded language of
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
People who have used Forth a lot tend to be very enthusiastic about it,
Tbh most people who use a language a lot tend to promote it over others they don't know. Ask any Python, C++, Java, C# dev what the best language is and 90% of the time they'll say the language they use. For Rust probably 99.99% but that seems to be becoming more of a cult than a language.
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com writes:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:58:49 -0000 (UTC)
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
So moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that hardly anyone >>uses. You can't deny the consistency.
We use lua rather extensively in multiple products.
You seem to do nothing but criticize others.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 15:01:56 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com writes:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:58:49 -0000 (UTC)
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
So moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that hardly anyone
uses. You can't deny the consistency.
We use lua rather extensively in multiple products.
You seem to do nothing but criticize others.
I've worked in a number of different areas and I've never come across anyone who mentioned Lua, never mind a company that used it. Whatever you do it
must be rather niche.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 14:00:16 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
On 16/04/2024 12:58, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
It has also been used since circa 1999 as the embedded language of
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
People who have used Forth a lot tend to be very enthusiastic about it,
Tbh most people who use a language a lot tend to promote it over others they
don't know. Ask any Python, C++, Java, C# dev what the best language is and >> 90% of the time they'll say the language they use. For Rust probably 99.99% >> but that seems to be becoming more of a cult than a language.
Agreed, it feels like everyone is praising Rust.
On 16/04/2024 at 16:26, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 15:01:56 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com writes:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:58:49 -0000 (UTC)
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
So moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that hardly >anyone
uses. You can't deny the consistency.
We use lua rather extensively in multiple products.
You seem to do nothing but criticize others.
I've worked in a number of different areas and I've never come across anyone >> who mentioned Lua, never mind a company that used it. Whatever you do it
must be rather niche.
I use lua to enhance conky - but yes it is a bit niche, I suppose.
anyoneSo moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that
hardly
uses. You can't deny the consistency.
We use lua rather extensively in multiple products.
You seem to do nothing but criticize others.
I've worked in a number of different areas and I've never come
across anyone who mentioned Lua, never mind a company that used
it. Whatever you do it must be rather niche.
I use lua to enhance conky - but yes it is a bit niche, I suppose.
Is conky your talking teddy bear?
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 15:43:33 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
anyoneSo moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that
hardly
uses. You can't deny the consistency.
We use lua rather extensively in multiple products.
You seem to do nothing but criticize others.
I've worked in a number of different areas and I've never come
across anyone who mentioned Lua, never mind a company that used
it. Whatever you do it must be rather niche.
I use lua to enhance conky - but yes it is a bit niche, I suppose.
Is conky your talking teddy bear?
It's *very* commonly used as a "bolt-on" solution for scripting in a
wide variety of applications, particularly videogame engines. I eagerly
await your explanation of how that doesn't count since it's outside
your own sphere of experience.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_applications_using_Lua >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lua_(programming_language)-scripted_vide
o_games
I eagerly await your explanation of how that doesn't count since
it's outside your own sphere of experience.
Oh, games. Serious applications then.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 15:43:33 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
anyoneSo moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that
hardly
uses. You can't deny the consistency.
We use lua rather extensively in multiple products.
You seem to do nothing but criticize others.
I've worked in a number of different areas and I've never come
across anyone who mentioned Lua, never mind a company that used
it. Whatever you do it must be rather niche.
I use lua to enhance conky - but yes it is a bit niche, I suppose.
Is conky your talking teddy bear?
It's *very* commonly used as a "bolt-on" solution for scripting in a
wide variety of applications, particularly videogame engines. I eagerly
await your explanation of how that doesn't count since it's outside
your own sphere of experience.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_applications_using_Lua https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lua_(programming_language)-scripted_video_games
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 15:51:12 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
I eagerly await your explanation of how that doesn't count since
it's outside your own sphere of experience.
Oh, games. Serious applications then.
Ah, the "applications that I don't consider important don't count"
strategy. Magnifique.
I worked in defense writing software for missiles for a while. Also
worked on networking code for systems that literally transfered 100s
of millions of dollars worth of trades a day.
But yeah, I'm sure scripting actions on Fortnite and Call of Duty
compare. Even the game engines are written in C++.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 08:49:23 -0700
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 15:43:33 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
anyoneSo moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that
hardly
uses. You can't deny the consistency.
We use lua rather extensively in multiple products.
You seem to do nothing but criticize others.
I've worked in a number of different areas and I've never come
across anyone who mentioned Lua, never mind a company that used
it. Whatever you do it must be rather niche.
I use lua to enhance conky - but yes it is a bit niche, I suppose.
Is conky your talking teddy bear?
It's *very* commonly used as a "bolt-on" solution for scripting in a
wide variety of applications, particularly videogame engines. I eagerly
await your explanation of how that doesn't count since it's outside
your own sphere of experience.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_applications_using_Lua
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lua_(programming_language)-scripted_vide
o_games
Oh, games. Serious applications then.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 11:51:12 -0400, <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 08:49:23 -0700
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 15:43:33 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
anyoneSo moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that
hardly
uses. You can't deny the consistency.
We use lua rather extensively in multiple products.
You seem to do nothing but criticize others.
I've worked in a number of different areas and I've never come
across anyone who mentioned Lua, never mind a company that used
it. Whatever you do it must be rather niche.
I use lua to enhance conky - but yes it is a bit niche, I suppose.
Is conky your talking teddy bear?
It's *very* commonly used as a "bolt-on" solution for scripting in a
wide variety of applications, particularly videogame engines. I eagerly
await your explanation of how that doesn't count since it's outside
your own sphere of experience.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_applications_using_Lua
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lua_(programming_language)-scripted_vide
o_games
Oh, games. Serious applications then.
Any linux distribution that supports use of rpm packages supports using lua as
the scripting language for package installations and removals. https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/rpmlua.8.html
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 15:51:12 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
I eagerly await your explanation of how that doesn't count since
it's outside your own sphere of experience.
Oh, games. Serious applications then.
Ah, the "applications that I don't consider important don't count"
strategy. Magnifique.
I worked in defense writing software for missiles for a while. Also worked
on networking code for systems that literally transfered 100s of millions of >dollars worth of trades a day.
Any linux distribution that supports use of rpm packages supports using lua as
the scripting language for package installations and removals. https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/rpmlua.8.html
On 2024-04-16, David W. Hodgins <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
Any linux distribution that supports use of rpm packages supports using lua as
the scripting language for package installations and removals.
https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/rpmlua.8.html
Oh, right, FreeBSD's pkg(8) also supports that: https://man.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=pkg-lua-script
Which brings us back to the very start of this thread: Is Lua a
"scripting" language or a "programming" language?
I've programmed in Perl but I'm no Perl-programmer notwithstanding.
Some more or less obvious reasons I see...
Abstraction of diverse Unix utilities' interfaces.
no other language comes close in conciseness when it comes to
text processing and interacting with the OS (filesystem, pipes,..)
.. i could imagine e.g. a library for a language getting there.
Especially a language that is particularly versatile and adaptable to defining DSLs.
Having looked at Rust I do wonder what the fuss is about.
I use lua to enhance conky ...
But for system automation tasks in a Posix OS, when you want to go above
the level of a simple shell script and use complex data structures, Perl
is the only language that fills that gap, any other language is
oververbose (lacks conciseness).
On 16/04/2024 12:58, Christian Weisgerber wrote:Really? It is a very small language and has almost no syntax.
On 2024-04-16, David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
Forth is alive and well, albeit not very common. It is used in embedded >>> systems - it is almost certainly the smallest language and run-timeIt has also been used since circa 1999 as the embedded language of
system where you can have a extendable high-level language, and runs
directly on even very small microcontrollers.
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
People who have used Forth a lot tend to be very enthusiastic about it, but it has a long learning curve to get up to speed.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 16:13:01 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
I worked in defense writing software for missiles for a while. Also
worked on networking code for systems that literally transfered 100s
of millions of dollars worth of trades a day.
*golf clap*
But yeah, I'm sure scripting actions on Fortnite and Call of Duty
compare. Even the game engines are written in C++.
Frequently, yes! But when you go making statements like "nobody uses"
when what you really mean is "*I* don't use," endlessly redefining the
terms of your argument in an attempt to back-port correctness into your >original statement only draws further attention to how you ran off your
mouth without bothering to think in the first place.
In article <uvm82d$11io2$1@dont-email.me>, <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote: >....
I worked in defense writing software for missiles for a while. Also worked >>on networking code for systems that literally transfered 100s of millions of >>dollars worth of trades a day.
Yes, you did, Donnie. Now be a good boy...
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:58:49 -0000 (UTC)
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
So moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that hardly anyone uses. You can't deny the consistency.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 08:59:12 -0700
John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 15:51:12 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
I eagerly await your explanation of how that doesn't count since
it's outside your own sphere of experience.
Oh, games. Serious applications then.
Ah, the "applications that I don't consider important don't count"
strategy. Magnifique.
I worked in defense writing software for missiles for a while.
Also worked
on networking code for systems that literally transfered 100s of millions of dollars worth of trades a day.
But yeah, I'm sure scripting actions on Fortnite and Call of Duty compare. Even the game engines are written in C++.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 16:42:43 +0100, Chris Elvidge wrote:
I use lua to enhance conky ...
I know Lua was designed specifically to be embeddable, as an extension language for apps. But surprisingly, you see Python being used a lot for that, too.
The most high-profile example has to be Blender. Now *there* is a scriptability API ...
On 16/04/2024 18:13, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 08:59:12 -0700
I worked in defense writing software for missiles for a while.
Presumably only for a short while, or very indirectly. People who
/actually/ work in that kind of system, don't talk about it.
Also worked
on networking code for systems that literally transfered 100s of millions of >> dollars worth of trades a day.
Ah, so games - just with a different kind of score.
But yeah, I'm sure scripting actions on Fortnite and Call of Duty compare. >> Even the game engines are written in C++.
And the game data and actions are written in Lua.
You do realise that the gaming industry is pretty big?
*waits for a Forth-head to chime in*
*golf clap*
Whatever that is.
You aspies need to stop taking things so literally. Quite obviously
someone uses it, but in the scheme of things Lua has a tiny userbase
and is pretty irrelevant in most language discussions.
Really? It is a very small language and has almost no syntax.
I thought it was one of the easiest languages toe learn ib comparison
to C++ or Java.
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 08:22:27 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
*golf clap*
Whatever that is.
(it means i am engaging in what is nominally a gesture of respect in a >mocking way, so as to indicate that your pompous demands for respect
are being deliberately ignored)
You aspies need to stop taking things so literally. Quite obviously
someone uses it, but in the scheme of things Lua has a tiny userbase
and is pretty irrelevant in most language discussions.
Again, the "the thing I said was not in any meaningful sense 'correct,'
so here's how I've decided that evidence to the contrary doesn't count" >strategy. *chef kiss*
(it means i am engaging in what is nominally a gesture of respect in
a mocking way, so as to indicate that your pompous demands for
respect are being deliberately ignored)
Wasn't a demand for respect, just making a point about serious
applications and the languages used for them. Games arn't serious.
Have another go aspie.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 20:47:47 +0000, Javier wrote:
But for system automation tasks in a Posix OS, when you want to go above
the level of a simple shell script and use complex data structures, Perl
is the only language that fills that gap, any other language is
oververbose (lacks conciseness).
Still some limitations in its data structures, though.
I see Perl 5.38 has
added an “experimental” class feature, but it doesn’t do multiple inheritance or metaclasses.
Also I’m not sure if classes are first-class--
objects or not.
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 07:34:41 +0200
Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> wrote:
Really? It is a very small language and has almost no syntax.
I thought it was one of the easiest languages toe learn ib comparison
to C++ or Java.
*Syntactically* it's very simple, but explicit stack-orientation with reverse-Polish notation is a *very* different programming paradigm than practically everything else out there; even Lisp is closer to "normal,"
at least for functional-programming types. And that's before you even
get to the fairly idiosyncratic vocabulary or the type model that's
somehow both explicit and loose...
Another thing about Forth is that it gives C a run for its money in potential for obfuscation :
: 1 2 ;
1 1 + .
Redefine "1". That'll keep the reader on his/her toes!
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 21:05:03 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
Another thing about Forth is that it gives C a run for its money in
potential for obfuscation :
: 1 2 ;
1 1 + .
Redefine "1". That'll keep the reader on his/her toes!
Redefinitions *stack,* too, so "foo" can mean multiple completely
different things in different contexts depending on which definition
was current at the time.
: foo 2 * ;
: double foo ;
3 foo .
: foo 1 + ;
3 foo .
3 double .
Genuine Forth-heads do staggering things (implementing OOP, etc.) with
this; personally, it gives *me* the willies.
I think that when finding the definition of a word, Forth just
searches back through the stack of definitions until it gets a hit.
And if that word definition uses other non-primitive words, it goes
backwards from where it currently is, looking only at definitions
from before the current word was defined. Is that right? And if so,
can you do "forward declarations", and mutual recursion somehow?
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 16:15:14 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
(it means i am engaging in what is nominally a gesture of respect in
a mocking way, so as to indicate that your pompous demands for
respect are being deliberately ignored)
Wasn't a demand for respect, just making a point about serious
applications and the languages used for them. Games arn't serious.
Your definition of "serious applications" seems to coincide pretty substantially with "fields I, personally, have worked in," particularly
since you've conveniently ignored the passel of non-game applications
that have also been cited in order to focus on the one you feel most
prepared to trivialize and discount in pursuance of your "argument."
And in addition to habitually slagging on applications and tools you
don't consider "serious" for no particular reason and with zero
provocation, you name-call like a grade-schooler. So it's difficult
*not* to parse your overall behavior as simian chest-thumping and
expecting to be treated as Le Fromage Grande on the basis of standards conveniently set by yourself.
Have another go aspie.
Case in point. But for the sake of argument, let's review:
Person: "This thing exists."
Muttley: "Nobody uses that."
People: "Here's all these things that use that."
Muttley: "Those don't count."
People: "Come again?"
Muttley: "They're not serious."
People: "What's your definition of 'serious' here?"
Muttley: "Things that I've worked on."
People: "...Um."
Muttley: "Also you're a poopiehead."
Perl has had support for object-oriented programming (with multiple inheritance) for many years -- too many for me to remember.
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 18:04:57 +0100, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
Perl has had support for object-oriented programming (with multiple
inheritance) for many years -- too many for me to remember.
Then why this new “class” thing in 5.38?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 18:04:57 +0100, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
Perl has had support for object-oriented programming (with multiple
inheritance) for many years -- too many for me to remember.
Then why this new “class” thing in 5.38?
It's explained reasonably well at the top of the "perldoc perlclass" documentation in Perl 5.38:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 21:52:06 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
I think that when finding the definition of a word, Forth just
searches back through the stack of definitions until it gets a hit.
And if that word definition uses other non-primitive words, it goes
backwards from where it currently is, looking only at definitions
from before the current word was defined. Is that right? And if so,
can you do "forward declarations", and mutual recursion somehow?
That's my understanding, yes; essentially, it's a consequence of the
fact that definitions are stored as a list of pointers, and re-
definitions are simply appended to the dictionary without going back
through the rest of it to update any pointers to the prior definition.
A strange design choice, but they're consistent with it.
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 16:15:14 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
(it means i am engaging in what is nominally a gesture of respect in
a mocking way, so as to indicate that your pompous demands for
respect are being deliberately ignored)
Wasn't a demand for respect, just making a point about serious
applications and the languages used for them. Games arn't serious.
Your definition of "serious applications" seems to coincide pretty >substantially with "fields I, personally, have worked in," particularly
provocation, you name-call like a grade-schooler. So it's difficult
Muttley: "Also you're a poopiehead."
Sorry Muttley, I have to give this one to John. His argument is flawless
and spot on.
On 2024-04-17, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 21:52:06 +0200
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
I think that when finding the definition of a word, Forth just
searches back through the stack of definitions until it gets a hit.
And if that word definition uses other non-primitive words, it goes
backwards from where it currently is, looking only at definitions
from before the current word was defined. Is that right? And if so,
can you do "forward declarations", and mutual recursion somehow?
That's my understanding, yes; essentially, it's a consequence of the
fact that definitions are stored as a list of pointers, and re-
definitions are simply appended to the dictionary without going back
through the rest of it to update any pointers to the prior definition.
A strange design choice, but they're consistent with it.
I don't know at all whether Forth does this or not, but this design
choice allows the list to be restored to a prior state, whereby the
recent definitions are forgotten, and the old ones revealed again,
similarly to shadowed lexicals being revealed again upon the terminaton
of an inner scope.
It sounds reminiscent of the assoc list representation of the lexical environment in a rudimentary Lisp interpreter.
With the list of pointers design of Forth, you can just
redefine these "local" words as you need to, and ignore any previous definitions.
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 23:05:34 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Sorry Muttley, I have to give this one to John. His argument is flawless
and spot on.
Says a sock puppet who's never posted before. Nice try John.
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 10:30:49 +0200, David Brown wrote:
With the list of pointers design of Forth, you can just
redefine these "local" words as you need to, and ignore any previous
definitions.
So, they reinvented local variables, and thought it was some great
innovation ...
On 16/04/2024 16:49, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:58:49 -0000 (UTC)
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
So moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that hardly anyone >> uses. You can't deny the consistency.
Lots of people use Lua. It is very popular as a small scripting
language, and as a language embedded in other programs - you only need
two or three C source files linked into your code to make Lua available,
and it's quite easy to expose C functions as Lua functions.
It is extremely popular in gaming - including for player scripting in Minecraft.
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 23:05:34 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Sorry Muttley, I have to give this one to John. His argument is flawless >>> and spot on.
Says a sock puppet who's never posted before. Nice try John.
Please keep the jokes coming. I find you most entertaining! =)
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 16:59:06 -0700, Keith Thompson wrote:
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 18:04:57 +0100, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
Perl has had support for object-oriented programming (with multiple
inheritance) for many years -- too many for me to remember.
Then why this new “class” thing in 5.38?
It's explained reasonably well at the top of the "perldoc perlclass"
documentation in Perl 5.38:
It says there is already supposed to be a mechanism for this, it doesn’t explain why that isn’t good enough.
There are plenty of fields I haven't worked in that I would also
consider serious eg agriculture, automotive, energy.
Games arn't on that list.
I simply descended to the level that the argument had been brought to
so don't complain.
Muttley: "Also you're a poopiehead."
Are you expecting to be taken seriously?
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 11:28:38 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 23:05:34 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Sorry Muttley, I have to give this one to John. His argument is flawless >>>> and spot on.
Says a sock puppet who's never posted before. Nice try John.
Please keep the jokes coming. I find you most entertaining! =)
That hand up your arse must be getting annoying by now.
David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote at 09:30 this Wednesday (GMT):
On 16/04/2024 16:49, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:58:49 -0000 (UTC)
Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> wrote:
the FreeBSD boot loader, another constrained environment. In the
end Forth proved too unpopular, few people touched it, and it is
being replaced with Lua now.
So moving from one language hardly anyone uses to another that hardly anyone
uses. You can't deny the consistency.
Lots of people use Lua. It is very popular as a small scripting
language, and as a language embedded in other programs - you only need
two or three C source files linked into your code to make Lua available,
and it's quite easy to expose C functions as Lua functions.
It is extremely popular in gaming - including for player scripting in
Minecraft.
Minecraft supports player scripting?
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 07:33:14 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
There are plenty of fields I haven't worked in that I would also
consider serious eg agriculture, automotive, energy.
Games arn't on that list.
Very well, then! That leaves us with the larger questions:
* By what logic do you argue that a language which is commonly used in
fields which are (by your own admission) "pretty big" but (in your
assessment) not "serious" is therefore "pretty irrelevant in most
language discussions?"
* What about all of the other non-game applications people have cited?
Are none of these "serious" by your standards?
Are you expecting to be taken seriously?
Were *you,* when you decided to start throwing around terms like
"aspie?" (2009 called, they want their insult back.)
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 11:28:38 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 23:05:34 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Sorry Muttley, I have to give this one to John. His argument is flawless >>>>> and spot on.
Says a sock puppet who's never posted before. Nice try John.
Please keep the jokes coming. I find you most entertaining! =)
That hand up your arse must be getting annoying by now.
Keep em coming! =)
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 20:59:01 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 11:28:38 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 23:05:34 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Sorry Muttley, I have to give this one to John. His argument is flawless >>>>>> and spot on.
Says a sock puppet who's never posted before. Nice try John.
Please keep the jokes coming. I find you most entertaining! =)
That hand up your arse must be getting annoying by now.
Keep em coming! =)
I suspect thats what you'll be doing at some point.
The amount of code written in the language. I doubt game scripting
amounts to much in the scheme of things.
Don't remember them tbh. A serious application IMO is something that
impacts society as a whole in that if it didn't exist we'd be in
trouble or something that benefits a persons ability to live their
life. If games vanishes some teenagers and kidults might get a bit
annoyed for a while before they went outside and played with a ball
but society would carry on as before.
Its a very relevant insult given these days every socially awkward
moron decides they're on the spectrum so they can have some kind of disadvantage kudos.
And you base this assumption on...?...
So you discount them because you didn't bother to pay attention before...
firing off a response?
Nobody in this discussion said any such thing.
On Fri, 19 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 20:59:01 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 11:28:38 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 23:05:34 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Sorry Muttley, I have to give this one to John. His argument is flawless
Brilliant! Next!and spot on.
Says a sock puppet who's never posted before. Nice try John.
Please keep the jokes coming. I find you most entertaining! =)
That hand up your arse must be getting annoying by now.
Keep em coming! =)
I suspect thats what you'll be doing at some point.
On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 08:57:08 -0000 (UTC)
Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
The amount of code written in the language. I doubt game scripting
amounts to much in the scheme of things.
And you base this assumption on...?
Don't remember them tbh. A serious application IMO is something that
impacts society as a whole in that if it didn't exist we'd be in
trouble or something that benefits a persons ability to live their
life. If games vanishes some teenagers and kidults might get a bit
annoyed for a while before they went outside and played with a ball
but society would carry on as before.
So you discount them because you didn't bother to pay attention before
firing off a response?
Its a very relevant insult given these days every socially awkward
moron decides they're on the spectrum so they can have some kind of
disadvantage kudos.
Nobody in this discussion said any such thing.
On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:40:25 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 20:59:01 +0200Brilliant! Next!
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 11:28:38 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 23:05:34 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Sorry Muttley, I have to give this one to John. His argument is flawless
and spot on.
Says a sock puppet who's never posted before. Nice try John.
Please keep the jokes coming. I find you most entertaining! =)
That hand up your arse must be getting annoying by now.
Keep em coming! =)
I suspect thats what you'll be doing at some point.
Your turn Dee.
On Sat, 20 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:40:25 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 20:59:01 +0200Brilliant! Next!
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 11:28:38 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 23:05:34 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Sorry Muttley, I have to give this one to John. His argument is >flawless
and spot on.
Says a sock puppet who's never posted before. Nice try John.
Please keep the jokes coming. I find you most entertaining! =)
That hand up your arse must be getting annoying by now.
Keep em coming! =)
I suspect thats what you'll be doing at some point.
Your turn Dee.
Quality dropping a bit here. But I'm sure you'll rebound shortly.
On Sat, 20 Apr 2024 12:40:17 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Sat, 20 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Fri, 19 Apr 2024 22:40:25 +0200flawless
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Fri, 19 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 20:59:01 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 11:28:38 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 23:05:34 +0200
D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
Sorry Muttley, I have to give this one to John. His argument is
Brilliant! Next!and spot on.
Says a sock puppet who's never posted before. Nice try John.
Please keep the jokes coming. I find you most entertaining! =)
That hand up your arse must be getting annoying by now.
Keep em coming! =)
I suspect thats what you'll be doing at some point.
Your turn Dee.
Quality dropping a bit here. But I'm sure you'll rebound shortly.
You got nothing then? Awww, bless. Well you tried, thats the main thing.
On 18/04/2024 10:36, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 10:30:49 +0200, David Brown wrote:
With the list of pointers design of Forth, you can just
redefine these "local" words as you need to, and ignore any previous
definitions.
So, they reinvented local variables, and thought it was some great
innovation ...
"word" in Forth terminology is more like "function" in common imperative languages. (It is not exactly the same, since Forth "words" are much
more flexible - that is both a good thing and a bad thing.)
On 18/04/2024 10:31, David Brown wrote:
On 18/04/2024 10:36, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 18 Apr 2024 10:30:49 +0200, David Brown wrote:
With the list of pointers design of Forth, you can just
redefine these "local" words as you need to, and ignore any previous
definitions.
So, they reinvented local variables, and thought it was some great
innovation ...
"word" in Forth terminology is more like "function" in common
imperative languages. (It is not exactly the same, since Forth
"words" are much more flexible - that is both a good thing and a bad
thing.)
Why not include c.l.forth?
Sure - if you would like to continue in this line, then you could
bring in some experts. I have no idea how popular c.l.forth is, or
how much more you'd learn from them that you wouldn't get from others
here such as John Ames.
You do realize you're arguing with a moron, don't you?
Something about arguing with a moron - they just bring you down to
their level...
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