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  • Re: Baby X is bor nagain

    From DFS@guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca to comp.lang.c on Thu Jan 2 13:16:23 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    On 7/4/2024 4:24 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 03/07/2024 15:41, DFS wrote:
    On 7/3/2024 5:36 AM, bart wrote:

    That's enough of a track record for even one person that one can say,
    Linux pretty much always comes with gcc. And if it doesn't, it's easy
    to install as you say.


    distrowatch.com shows most distros come with gcc preinstalled.


    No, it does not.

    Yes, it does.



    Distrowatch shows the version of the packages in the
    distributions repositories,

    Wrong again.

    From the founder of distrowatch:

    "The package versions are the ones included on the install media."


    not what is installed by default.

    Wrong.



    And almost all distributions will have gcc available.

    Right


    I think Windows should come with various development tools and
    programs preinstalled and ready to go: tcc, python, VS Code, SQLite.


    Python would be useful to have by default on Windows.  The rest, not so much.

    Wrong

    --- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114
  • From scott@scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) to comp.lang.c on Thu Jan 2 20:46:37 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> writes:
    On 7/4/2024 4:24 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 03/07/2024 15:41, DFS wrote:
    On 7/3/2024 5:36 AM, bart wrote:

    That's enough of a track record for even one person that one can say, >>>> Linux pretty much always comes with gcc. And if it doesn't, it's easy >>>> to install as you say.


    distrowatch.com shows most distros come with gcc preinstalled.


    No, it does not.

    Yes, it does.

    David is correct. I just installed Fedora41 and there were no
    development tools (compilers, devel libraries, binutils, gdb,
    make) installed by default (preinstalled).

    The end-user is required to install them manually.
    --- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114
  • From Phillip@nntp@fulltermprivacy.com to comp.lang.c on Thu Jan 2 16:47:32 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    On 1/2/25 3:46 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
    DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> writes:
    On 7/4/2024 4:24 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 03/07/2024 15:41, DFS wrote:
    On 7/3/2024 5:36 AM, bart wrote:

    That's enough of a track record for even one person that one can say, >>>>> Linux pretty much always comes with gcc. And if it doesn't, it's easy >>>>> to install as you say.


    distrowatch.com shows most distros come with gcc preinstalled.


    No, it does not.

    Yes, it does.

    David is correct. I just installed Fedora41 and there were no
    development tools (compilers, devel libraries, binutils, gdb,
    make) installed by default (preinstalled).

    The end-user is required to install them manually.

    Same with Arch and Manjaro. Neither come preinstalled with gcc or devs
    tools.

    As far as I know, Debian doesn't come with gcc preinstalled either.
    --- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114
  • From antispam@antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) to comp.lang.c on Thu Jan 2 22:22:04 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
    DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> writes:
    On 7/4/2024 4:24 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 03/07/2024 15:41, DFS wrote:
    On 7/3/2024 5:36 AM, bart wrote:

    That's enough of a track record for even one person that one can say, >>>>> Linux pretty much always comes with gcc. And if it doesn't, it's easy >>>>> to install as you say.


    distrowatch.com shows most distros come with gcc preinstalled.


    No, it does not.

    Yes, it does.

    David is correct. I just installed Fedora41 and there were no
    development tools (compilers, devel libraries, binutils, gdb,
    make) installed by default (preinstalled).

    The end-user is required to install them manually.

    On Debian "small" install includes cpp, that is C preprocessor.
    Preprocessor is actually implemented by 'cc1' that is core
    C compiler. So one can compile C programs and generate assembly.
    But most headers are missing and there is no way to create an
    executable (and one needs to invoke 'cc1' by path to gcc-internal
    directory since 'gcc' executable is missing too). Kind of silly,
    as 'cc1' is 33 MB and installing something like extra 3 MB would
    give a working C compiler.

    BTW: I wrote "small" as that was minimal thing that installer
    offered and which included GUI and sshd. This installed
    several packages marked "optional" resulting in 1.3 GB disc
    use.

    BTW2: That probably could be good use case for 'tcc', it provides
    preprocessor and is much smaller than 'gcc'.
    --
    Waldek Hebisch
    --- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114
  • From David Brown@david.brown@hesbynett.no to comp.lang.c on Fri Jan 3 13:48:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    On 02/01/2025 19:16, DFS wrote:
    On 7/4/2024 4:24 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 03/07/2024 15:41, DFS wrote:
    On 7/3/2024 5:36 AM, bart wrote:

    That's enough of a track record for even one person that one can
    say, Linux pretty much always comes with gcc. And if it doesn't,
    it's easy to install as you say.


    distrowatch.com shows most distros come with gcc preinstalled.


    No, it does not.

    Yes, it does.


    No.

    You were wrong half a year ago when this discussion was active, and you
    are still wrong now. Are you /really/ bearing a grudge for that long?



    Distrowatch shows the version of the packages in the distributions
    repositories,

    Wrong again.

    From the founder of distrowatch:

    "The package versions are the ones included on the install media."


    Re-read that sentence. Then try again a few more times, until you
    understand it. Having a package on the install media does /not/ mean it
    is necessarily installed - it merely means it is available for
    installation if the user wants. In most cases, people do not install
    anything close to all the packages on the installation media (unless the installation media is intentionally for a minimal install).


    --- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114
  • From DFS@guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca to comp.lang.c on Fri Jan 3 12:04:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    On 1/3/2025 7:48 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 02/01/2025 19:16, DFS wrote:
    On 7/4/2024 4:24 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 03/07/2024 15:41, DFS wrote:
    On 7/3/2024 5:36 AM, bart wrote:

    That's enough of a track record for even one person that one can
    say, Linux pretty much always comes with gcc. And if it doesn't,
    it's easy to install as you say.


    distrowatch.com shows most distros come with gcc preinstalled.


    No, it does not.

    Yes, it does.


    No.

    You were wrong half a year ago when this discussion was active, and you
    are still wrong now.  Are you /really/ bearing a grudge for that long?

    My experience in the past was gcc was almost always installed with the
    distro.



    Distrowatch shows the version of the packages in the distributions
    repositories,

    Wrong again.

     From the founder of distrowatch:

    "The package versions are the ones included on the install media."


    Re-read that sentence.  Then try again a few more times, until you understand it.  Having a package on the install media does /not/ mean it
    is necessarily installed

    I never said it did. Nor did distrowatch make that claim.


    - it merely means it is available for
    installation if the user wants.  In most cases, people do not install anything close to all the packages on the installation media (unless the installation media is intentionally for a minimal install).


    Reread your incorrect claim a few more times, then read what distrowatch
    said, until YOU understand it:

    You: "Distrowatch shows the version of the packages in the
    distributions repositories"

    Distrowatch: "The package versions are the ones included on the install
    media."


    The versions (in the repo and shown on distrowatch) might match the
    moment the distro is released, but the way FOSS is updated willy nilly
    every 5 minutes, they soon do not.

    --- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114
  • From David Brown@david.brown@hesbynett.no to comp.lang.c on Fri Jan 3 18:12:48 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.lang.c

    On 03/01/2025 18:04, DFS wrote:
    On 1/3/2025 7:48 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 02/01/2025 19:16, DFS wrote:
    On 7/4/2024 4:24 AM, David Brown wrote:
    On 03/07/2024 15:41, DFS wrote:
    On 7/3/2024 5:36 AM, bart wrote:

    That's enough of a track record for even one person that one can
    say, Linux pretty much always comes with gcc. And if it doesn't,
    it's easy to install as you say.


    distrowatch.com shows most distros come with gcc preinstalled.


    No, it does not.

    Yes, it does.


    No.

    You were wrong half a year ago when this discussion was active, and
    you are still wrong now.  Are you /really/ bearing a grudge for that
    long?

    My experience in the past was gcc was almost always installed with the distro.


    So what?

    My experience in the past is that Linux is almost always Debian or a
    Debian derivative, and I have installed gcc myself if it is appropriate.
    But that's /my/ experience because of the distos /I/ choose. It is no
    more and no less relevant than /your/ experience. The reality is that
    in most Linux distributions, gcc is not installed by default.



    Distrowatch shows the version of the packages in the distributions
    repositories,

    Wrong again.

     From the founder of distrowatch:

    "The package versions are the ones included on the install media."


    gcc is neither necessary, nor installed by default, by most
    distributions. All Distrowatch says is that it is usually included on installation media, available for easy installation.

    Now you can go back to sleep for another six months.

    --- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114