• Re: Mash tun

    From Denny Conn@denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us to rec.crafts.brewing,alt.beer.home-brewing on Fri Dec 5 09:12:59 2008
    From Newsgroup: alt.beer.home-brewing

    Bill Velek wrote:

    I haven't seen anyone comment yet about your planned 1.5 - 2 quarts of
    strike water per pound of grain, or ask how you intend to sparge. I've
    never fly sparged, so I don't know whether the thickness of your mash
    will be a factor in the sparge process itself (maybe it needs to be
    extra watery to start), or if it affects fly sparge efficiency or how
    much wort you end up with (excessive wort just means more time and
    energy to boil it down). I batch sparge, and I always mash with 1.25
    quarts of water per pound of grain and never have problems doughing-in
    or attaining full conversion. And by using a smaller amount of strike
    water, this gives me more capacity to do two good batch sparges without ending with more wort than I want. Just some food for thought.

    Bill, here's a suggestion for you to try....what I do is use more mash
    water than you do, almost never less than 1.3 qt./lb. and sometimes as
    high as 1.5-2 qt./lb. That allows me to get 1/2 my total boil volume
    from the mash and only do 1 sparge addition. I get average efficiency
    in the mid 80s doing that, so it obviously works. Saves time and
    effort, too, over doing multiple sparges.



    To the OP: take a look at www.hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew and see if it
    looks like that kind of systems will work for you. It's worked well for thousands of homebrewers.

    ------------>Denny
    --
    Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
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  • From Bill Velek@billvelek@alltel.net to rec.crafts.brewing,alt.beer.home-brewing on Mon Dec 8 12:48:16 2008
    From Newsgroup: alt.beer.home-brewing

    Denny Conn wrote:

    snip

    Bill, here's a suggestion for you to try....what I do is use more mash
    water than you do, almost never less than 1.3 qt./lb. and sometimes as
    high as 1.5-2 qt./lb. That allows me to get 1/2 my total boil volume
    from the mash and only do 1 sparge addition. I get average efficiency
    in the mid 80s doing that, so it obviously works. Saves time and
    effort, too, over doing multiple sparges.

    Hi, Denny; thanks for the comment. Since I don't know if I will get the
    same results and therefore might be forced to do a second sparge with
    the result of too much sweet wort, I'll probably wait until warmer
    weather to give it a try because with my current equipment takes a long
    time and a lot of propane in cold weather to boil off excess water.

    I did a partigyle on Saturday (see my separate post re my pumpkin ale),
    and somehow thought I had missed my target pre-boil volume (that hardly
    ever happens when I follow the schedule in my BeerToolsPro recipes) ...
    so I decided to do a third sparge. I've done that just a couple of
    times before, and it is not part of my regular routine. But I did find
    the results interesting ... and even a little puzzling ... so let me
    share the details and see what you and others think.

    First, my mini-mash of pumpkin consisted of two 15oz. cans containing, together, 42 grams of sugar (including what I assumed were starches that should have been fully converted); I apparently added about 3 quarts of runnings from my mash tun, because I ended with 1 gallon of mini-mash at
    10.2 degrees balling. No doubt most of the gravity was from the first runnings I had used. Now, I'm not entirely sure how accurate that is
    because I took a sample of the clear liquid sitting on top of the
    pumpkin mash, not wanting to stir and possibly have the pumpkin affect
    my refractometer (could it?) ... so I don't know if there might have
    been some stratification.

    Here was my grist in my main mash:
    17.5# 2-row
    .5# oatmeal
    1# flaked barley

    First runnings (not incl. what went in the mini mash): 3 gallons @ 18.2
    First batch sparge: 3.5 gallons @ 9.2
    Second batch sparge: 3.5 gallons @ 5.4
    Total Runnings at that point: 10 gallons

    Because I normally start each boil with about 5.75 to 6 gallons, I
    needed 11.5 to 12 gallons, ... and because I forgot about the 1 gallon
    in the mini-mash (too many homebrews??), I decided to do a third batch
    sparge and drained an addition 1.5 gallons @ 6.0.

    So this was my final result:
    Mini-mash -- 1 gallon @ 10.2
    1st Runnings -- 3 gallon @ 18.2
    1st Sparge -- 3.5 gallons @ 9.2
    2nd Sparge -- 3.5 gallons @ 5.4
    3rd Sparge -- 1.5 gallons @ 6.0
    Total Runnings: 12.5 gallons @ average of 9.99 balling

    The higher gravity of the third sparge as compared to the second sparge puzzled me, but maybe it was because the mash sat there for a bit while
    I took my other measurements, ... or maybe I ended up stirring it more
    than the previous sparge.

    Just a couple of final comments and questions:
    1. I assume that the 'fiber' portion of carbohydrates in the pumpkin
    would not be converted by enzymes, correct?
    2. I've never concerned myself with pH while batch sparging; should I be
    if pushing the limit, i.e., is it possible to 'over' sparge using batch sparging?
    3. The grain/strike ratio I use is pretty much in line with your
    website, Denny (see below), and it has worked very well for me. Your
    newer method, which you haven't posted there yet, is appealing because
    of the reduced work, but it would seem to me -- especially from the
    above -- that you would almost surely be leaving a good quantity of
    sugar behind. Now, maybe it isn't significant enough to justify the additional work of a second sparge. Have you kept and compared any
    records of two sparges versus one sparge?

    To the OP: take a look at www.hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew and see if it
    looks like that kind of systems will work for you. It's worked well for thousands of homebrewers.

    Cheers.

    Bill Velek -- portal to my "HOMEBREWING" sites: www.tinyurl.com/29zr8r
    My other sites: www.velek.com ~ www.2plus2is4.com ~ www.grow-hops.com
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  • From Denny Conn@denny.g.conn@ci.eugene.or.us to rec.crafts.brewing,alt.beer.home-brewing on Mon Dec 8 13:13:16 2008
    From Newsgroup: alt.beer.home-brewing

    Bill Velek wrote:
    Wow, lots to think about there, Bill, so I'll just hit the easy stuff
    for now...

    2. I've never concerned myself with pH while batch sparging; should I be
    if pushing the limit, i.e., is it possible to 'over' sparge using batch sparging?

    It's harder to oversparge when batch sparging, but it's still possible.

    3. The grain/strike ratio I use is pretty much in line with your
    website, Denny (see below), and it has worked very well for me. Your
    newer method, which you haven't posted there yet, is appealing because
    of the reduced work, but it would seem to me -- especially from the
    above -- that you would almost surely be leaving a good quantity of
    sugar behind. Now, maybe it isn't significant enough to justify the additional work of a second sparge. Have you kept and compared any
    records of two sparges versus one sparge?

    No, I haven't specifically kept any record becasue the only time I do
    more than 1 sparge is on batches with VERY large grist bills where I
    can't fit all the sparge water in the cooler at once...and those batches
    are few and far between. When I started batch sparging, I read
    something Ken Schwartz had written that basically said that there's a
    point where it just isn't worth you time any more, and that fit right in
    with my "pragmatic" theory of brewing! Considering I average 85%
    efficiency with a single sparge, I don't know how much more a second
    sparge would gain me.

    ----------->Denny

    --
    Life begins at 60...1.060, that is.
    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.108
  • From Bill Velek@billvelek@alltel.net to rec.crafts.brewing,alt.beer.home-brewing on Mon Dec 8 18:09:02 2008
    From Newsgroup: alt.beer.home-brewing

    Denny Conn wrote:

    Bill Velek wrote:
    Wow, lots to think about there, Bill, so I'll just hit the easy stuff
    for now...


    2. I've never concerned myself with pH while batch sparging; should I be
    if pushing the limit, i.e., is it possible to 'over' sparge using batch >>sparging?


    It's harder to oversparge when batch sparging, but it's still possible.

    Thanks, Denny. See my reply to Scott Sellers in this thread. If my
    science and math are correct, there would a very _nominal_ sacrifice in efficiency with a single batch sparge instead of two, so I'll definitely
    give it a try on my next batches. I've got four fermenters full right
    now, so it will be at least a week. :-)

    Bill Velek -- portal to my "HOMEBREWING" sites: www.tinyurl.com/29zr8r
    My other sites: www.velek.com ~ www.2plus2is4.com ~ www.grow-hops.com
    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.108