• Feedback re: Fidonet.org MX

    From Nick Andre@1:2320/100 to All on Tue Nov 24 19:42:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    Hello,

    I am in the process of provisioning the fidonet.org domain onto my own DNS servers. These servers are located in a major data center in downtown Toronto.

    The DNS for the domain is a freaking mess.

    For those of you not familiar with DNS, it is essentially a "phone book" of translating fidonet.org references into numeric IP addresses. Mail eXchange (MX) records in DNS tell a remote server system how to route mail to a destination address off of the fidonet.org domain.

    The existing Zone DNS table has a tonne of MX records for emails. A custom script was written in Perl to allegedly "cull" the nodelist and generate MX entries. I will not be publishing that script, at least not at this point, until I can get some feedback as to its purpose. I did not write that script, it has been inherited from its author, more or less.

    The majority of MX entries in DNS are being generated for Zone 2, and it is my understanding that there is a lot of Russian Sysops that are making use of routing Internet email via. those entries. Upon suggesting to the
    individual whom I obtained the Zone records from, that the MX be pointed to a central email server or changed; I was met with immediate harsh criticism.

    That individual was NOT Ward, by the way, so we are all clear...

    The problem I have with allowing Sysops to have their own MX entry in DNS is that if that Sysop vanishes, the domain incurs traffic from the Internet for anyone (mostly spammers) who attempt to route mail for that system. In addition, from a security perspective, if a Sysop runs an improperly-configured SMTP server, spammers have a field day exploiting that system and the domain as a whole suffers as a result.

    I would not want to yank the MX records, at least not at this point, until I get some serious feedback from anyone who has an MX entry in DNS for routing Internet email. Is having a fidonet.org email address THAT important?

    I am NOT against reinstating the IEEE gateway, I have the means to do so, but I am not yet seeing the benefits of having an "open address system" again.

    I welcome anyones feedback, suggestions or criticisms.

    Nick Andre
    net229.org

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  • From Paul Hayton@1:2320/100 to Nick Andre on Sat Nov 28 14:36:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 11/24/15, Nick Andre pondered and said...

    Hello,

    Hi Nick.

    I am in the process of provisioning the fidonet.org domain onto my own
    DNS servers. These servers are located in a major data center in
    downtown Toronto.

    Good stuff, was wondering how things were going.

    The DNS for the domain is a freaking mess.

    History eh?

    custom script was written in Perl to allegedly "cull" the nodelist and generate MX entries. I will not be publishing that script, at least not
    at this point, until I can get some feedback as to its purpose. I did
    not write that script, it has been inherited from its author, more or

    Sounds like a filter of sorts, perhaps with some old political overtones? Not needed now I'd suggest.

    The majority of MX entries in DNS are being generated for Zone 2, and it is my understanding that there is a lot of Russian Sysops that are
    making use of routing Internet email via. those entries. Upon suggesting

    Didn't know that, but then again probably another example of built up history of the domain - and by the sounds of it - something that has been in place and running (well?) for some time - dunno...

    The problem I have with allowing Sysops to have their own MX entry in
    DNS is that if that Sysop vanishes, the domain incurs traffic from the Internet for anyone (mostly spammers) who attempt to route mail for that system. In addition, from a security perspective, if a Sysop runs an improperly-configured SMTP server, spammers have a field day exploiting that system and the domain as a whole suffers as a result.

    Noted.

    I would not want to yank the MX records, at least not at this point,
    until I get some serious feedback from anyone who has an MX entry in DNS for routing Internet email. Is having a fidonet.org email address THAT important?

    I am NOT against reinstating the IEEE gateway, I have the means to do
    so, but I am not yet seeing the benefits of having an "open address system" again.

    This is really at the heart of it. What does the Fidonet community want for email services using the fidonet.org domain name? Asides an A or AAAA
    record the MX record comes pretty near top of the food chain for most DNS entries. There's a reason for that - most folks expect in todays internet connected world to be able to send an email to myname.org and that it makes
    it to someone on the other end :)

    So, for my part I think it would be good for sysops and the BBS scene to have the ability to be contactable via the domain name. If one of the goals of
    doing the work on fidonet.org is to breath life in to it then arguably email
    is a core feature set worth setting up :)

    My hope with fidonet.org (and indeed any other html presences of Fidonet information) is that we can work collaboratively to publish current
    information about Fidonet and how to join, who's involved, how much fun it
    can be etc. It's a great hobby BBS... and Fidonet (and othernets) are a key part of enjoying it.

    HTML and WWW is the 'shop front window' of the Internet to 99.9% of users online in 2015 - those of us who want to promote BBS, Fido etc. have an opportunity to reach them if we can ensure our own Fidonet content is current and consistant in message. At the moment some sites you reach when you Google Fidonet would have you believe it died a long time ago along with BBS :(

    Keep up the good work Nick... sing out if you need any help etc.

    Best, Paul

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  • From Nick Andre@1:2320/100 to Paul Hayton on Sun Nov 29 08:19:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 28 Nov 15 14:36:54, Paul Hayton said the following to Nick Andre:

    So, for my part I think it would be good for sysops and the BBS scene to h the ability to be contactable via the domain name. If one of the goals of doing the work on fidonet.org is to breath life in to it then arguably emai is a core feature set worth setting up :)

    On the outside, it may seem like a good idea. But, there are many BBS's that are set up to be a whole seperate venture from the Internet. They may have a Telnet address but thats about it; everything else about the BBS is unique.

    I would prefer, as I'm sure a lot of Sysops would also prefer, that the email gating be an "opt-in" feature". As in for example, you would specifically Netmail the gateway to confirm that you wish to have an email address. In theory, lets say email gated to Netmail is then placed on "Hold" status for that system to pick up. If the system does not pick up their mail or check-in somehow on a periodic basis, the MX in DNS is automatically deleted and mail is refused delivery on the SMTP side.

    I can have this scenario 100% automated with a slightly-modified D'Bridge installation.

    My hope with fidonet.org (and indeed any other html presences of Fidonet information) is that we can work collaboratively to publish current information about Fidonet and how to join, who's involved, how much fun it can be etc. It's a great hobby BBS... and Fidonet (and othernets) are a key part of enjoying it.

    Oh absolutely. I intend for fidonet.org to be the "official" domain for Fidonet; after the DNS problem has been resolved, the website is next on the list, another huge undertaking.

    Nick

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  • From BjÖrn Felten@1:2320/100 to Nick Andre on Mon Nov 30 17:22:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    Oh absolutely. I intend for fidonet.org to be the "official" domain for Fidonet; after the DNS problem has been resolved, the website is next on the list, another huge undertaking.

    Excellent plan. But, for Pete's sake, remove every single email address from
    the fidonet.org!!!

    Today it takes just a couple of seconds to register a new address, there's no way we in fidonet should be part of it. IMHO.

    Delete them all!

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  • From Paul Hayton@1:2320/100 to Nick Andre on Mon Nov 30 19:38:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 11/29/15, Nick Andre pondered and said...

    Hi Nick

    Thanks for the reply... and good to chat about this stuff with you.

    I would prefer, as I'm sure a lot of Sysops would also prefer, that the email gating be an "opt-in" feature". As in for example, you would specifically Netmail the gateway to confirm that you wish to have an
    email address. In theory, lets say email gated to Netmail is then placed on "Hold" status for that system to pick up. If the system does not pick up their mail or check-in somehow on a periodic basis, the MX in DNS is automatically deleted and mail is refused delivery on the SMTP side.

    That sounds completely fine to me. Running with and opt-in approach and automatic maintainence of records based on levels of inaction (or otherwise)
    is a sound approach.

    I was just advocating in general that the feature set should be there in principle when you asked earlier about the perceived importance of
    sysops having access to a fidonet.org email address.

    I can have this scenario 100% automated with a slightly-modified
    D'Bridge installation.

    :) The advantage of having some coding nouse... and the power of beer.

    My hope with fidonet.org (and indeed any other html presences of Fidon information) is that we can work collaboratively to publish current information about Fidonet and how to join, who's involved, how much fu can be etc. It's a great hobby BBS... and Fidonet (and othernets) are part of enjoying it.

    Oh absolutely. I intend for fidonet.org to be the "official" domain for Fidonet; after the DNS problem has been resolved, the website is next on the list, another huge undertaking.

    I'm happy and keen to help with that. At this stage fidonet.org still enjoys good ranking in Google. Asides the content updates required and any styling
    you want to apply I think a big issue is to get linking on fidonet.org to
    other fidonet sites updated. This will help with SEO and ranking of Fidonet content overall.

    Best, Paul

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  • From Rj Clay@1:2320/100 to BjÖrn Felten on Wed Dec 9 12:33:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    Hello Bjorn.

    30 Nov 15 17:22, you wrote to Nick Andre:

    Oh absolutely. I intend for fidonet.org to be the "official"
    domain for Fidonet; after the DNS problem has been resolved, the
    website is next on the list, another huge undertaking.

    Excellent plan. But, for Pete's sake, remove every single email
    address from the fidonet.org!!!

    Today it takes just a couple of seconds to register a new address, there's no way we in fidonet should be part of it. IMHO.

    Delete them all!

    Why? Mine works fine & has for quite a while; that it doesn't get used much is not relevant...



    RJ

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  • From Nick Andre@1:2320/100 to Rj Clay on Thu Dec 10 16:25:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 09 Dec 15 12:33:22, Rj Clay said the following to Bj*Rn Felten:

    Delete them all!

    Why? Mine works fine & has for quite a while; that it doesn't get used much is not relevant...

    I appreciate the feedback - even though you posted to Bjorn,

    Again my concern is the domain is being spammed beyond spammed.

    How to take action to stop the majority of it whilest retaining the custom MX functionality you have now with the domain is what is being pondered.

    Nick

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  • From BjÖrn Felten@1:2320/100 to Rj Clay on Fri Dec 11 00:34:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    Why? Mine works fine & has for quite a while; that it doesn't get used much is not relevant...

    So why use them when it's so easy to get a proper addy for just a tenner a year?

    I got b at felten dot se without problem, so why would I want to use some obscure fidonet address?

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  • From Ward Dossche@1:2320/100 to BjÖrn Felten on Fri Dec 11 08:34:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    I got b at felten dot se without problem, so why would I want to use
    some obscure fidonet address?

    Why do you have an old Mercedes when you could have a cheap Subaru instead?

    \%/@rd

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  • From Ward Dossche@1:2320/100 to Nick Andre on Fri Dec 11 08:34:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    Again my concern is the domain is being spammed beyond spammed.

    I remember "ye olde days" when we got tonnes of spam.

    In some cases the functionality came-in handy though ... let's say I have no outspoken opinion.

    \%/@rd

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  • From Mark Lewis@1:2320/100 to Ward Dossche on Fri Dec 11 11:09:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823

    11 Dec 15 08:34, you wrote to Bjorn Felten:

    I got b at felten dot se without problem, so why would I want to use
    some obscure fidonet address?

    Why do you have an old Mercedes when you could have a cheap Subaru
    instead?

    bingo!

    )\/(ark

    "So let me ask you a question about this brave new world of yours. When you've killed all the bad guys, and when it's all perfect, and just and fair, and when
    you have finally got it exactly the way you want it, what are you going to do with the people like you? The trouble makers. How are you going to protect your
    glorious revolution from the next one?" - The twelfth Doctor

    ... I had my coat hangers spayed.
    ---
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  • From BjÖrn Felten@1:2320/100 to Ward Dossche on Fri Dec 11 22:41:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    Why do you have an old Mercedes when you could have a cheap Subaru
    instead?

    Because my 450SL is worth more than ten times more than the Subaru -- and performs ten times better? 8-)

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  • From Tommi Koivula@1:2320/100 to Bjrn Felten on Sun Dec 13 10:00:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 11.12.2015 23:41, Bj||rn Felten - Ward Dossche wrote:

    Why do you have an old Mercedes when you could have a cheap Subaru
    instead?

    Because my 450SL is worth more than ten times more than the Subaru --
    and performs ten times better? 8-)

    In snow?

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  • From Bjrn Felten@1:2320/100 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Dec 13 15:44:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    Because my 450SL is worth more than ten times more than the Subaru --
    and performs ten times better? 8-)

    In snow?

    Oh yes, even more so in snow. Germany has snow to, you know, albeit not as often as Sweden and Finland, but much more often than Belgium. 8-)

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  • From Tommi Koivula@1:2320/100 to Bjrn Felten on Sun Dec 13 18:15:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 13.12.2015 16:44, BjN++rn Felten - Tommi Koivula wrote:

    Because my 450SL is worth more than ten times more than the
    Subaru --
    and performs ten times better? 8-)

    In snow?

    Oh yes, even more so in snow.

    RWD Mercedes performs ten times better than 4WD Subaru? C'mon.

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  • From Bjrn Felten@1:2320/100 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Dec 13 23:26:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    RWD Mercedes performs ten times better than 4WD Subaru? C'mon.

    No.

    My old Mercedes performs ten times better than a cheap Subaru -- that was what Ward wrote about.

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  • From Tommi Koivula@1:2320/100 to Bjrn Felten on Mon Dec 14 20:18:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 14.12.2015 0:26, BjN++rn Felten - Tommi Koivula wrote:

    RWD Mercedes performs ten times better than 4WD Subaru? C'mon.

    No.

    My old Mercedes performs ten times better than a cheap Subaru -- that
    was what Ward wrote about.

    Yes.

    And I asked about performance in snow.

    You obviously don't know anything about Subarus.

    OT

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  • From Ward Dossche@1:2320/100 to Paul Hayton on Tue Dec 15 07:57:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823

    You obviously don't know anything about Subarus.

    Golly how quickly did this thread move from MX to motor cars!?

    This is a serious discussion sir ... :-)

    \%/@rd

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  • From Tommi Koivula@1:2320/100 to Paul Hayton on Tue Dec 15 14:19:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 15.12.2015 10:35, Paul Hayton - Ward Dossche wrote:

    On 12/15/15, Ward Dossche pondered and said...

    This is a serious discussion sir ... :-)

    Next it will be all about the weather... :)

    If there is nothing else... :)

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  • From Ward Dossche@1:2320/100 to Tommi Koivula on Tue Dec 15 15:14:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823

    On 12/15/15, Ward Dossche pondered and said...

    This is a serious discussion sir ... :-)

    Next it will be all about the weather... :)

    If there is nothing else... :)

    We can also discuss current fashion trends ...

    \%/@rd

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  • From Ward Dossche@1:2320/100 to Tommi Koivula on Tue Dec 15 18:03:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    This is a serious discussion sir ... :-)

    Next it will be all about the weather... :)

    If there is nothing else... :)

    We can also discuss current fashion trends ...

    I'd prefer the weather...

    How 'bout coffee?

    \%/@rd

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  • From Tommi Koivula@1:2320/100 to Ward Dossche on Tue Dec 15 18:52:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 15.12.2015 15:14, Ward Dossche - Tommi Koivula wrote:

    On 12/15/15, Ward Dossche pondered and said...

    This is a serious discussion sir ... :-)

    Next it will be all about the weather... :)

    If there is nothing else... :)

    We can also discuss current fashion trends ...

    I'd prefer the weather...

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  • From Paul Hayton@1:2320/100 to Tommi Koivula on Tue Dec 15 19:30:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 12/14/15, Tommi Koivula pondered and said...

    You obviously don't know anything about Subarus.

    Golly how quickly did this thread move from MX to motor cars!?

    Faster than a binkd poll over a dogdy tcp/ip connection me-thinks :)

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  • From BjÖrn Felten@1:2320/100 to Ward Dossche on Tue Dec 15 19:37:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    How 'bout coffee?

    Yes please. Black, no sugar.

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  • From Ward Dossche@1:2320/100 to BjÖrn Felten on Tue Dec 15 20:52:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823

    How 'bout coffee?

    Yes please. Black, no sugar.

    Yo dah man !!

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  • From Paul Hayton@1:2320/100 to Ward Dossche on Tue Dec 15 21:35:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 12/15/15, Ward Dossche pondered and said...

    This is a serious discussion sir ... :-)

    Next it will be all about the weather... :)

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  • From Tommi Koivula@1:2320/100 to Ward Dossche on Wed Dec 16 06:24:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 15.12.2015 18:03, Ward Dossche - Tommi Koivula wrote:

    This is a serious discussion sir ... :-)

    Next it will be all about the weather... :)

    If there is nothing else... :)

    We can also discuss current fashion trends ...

    I'd prefer the weather...

    How 'bout coffee?

    Finished. Have to go now.

    No weather today. Or what does that 0.0 in the outside thermometer mean?

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  • From Ward Dossche@1:2320/100 to Tommi Koivula on Wed Dec 16 08:34:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823

    No weather today. Or what does that 0.0 in the outside thermometer mean?

    It depends ... oC, oF, oR, oK, ... ?

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  • From Rj Clay@1:2320/100 to Nick Andre on Sun Dec 20 14:27:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    Hello Nick.

    10 Dec 15 16:25, you wrote to me:

    On 09 Dec 15 12:33:22, Rj Clay said the following to Bj*Rn Felten:

    Again my concern is the domain is being spammed beyond spammed.

    How to take action to stop the majority of it whilest retaining the
    custom MX functionality you have now with the domain is what is being pondered.

    SPF settings? Firewall settings? (Depending on what's being used for the firewall manager...) SpamAssassin? (Things like fail2ban, of course, depending on the OS being used on the main MX...)




    RJ

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  • From Nick Andre@1:2320/100 to Rj Clay on Mon Dec 21 10:29:02 2015
    1.71.5.204-B20160823
    On 20 Dec 15 14:27:23, Rj Clay said the following to Nick Andre:

    How to take action to stop the majority of it whilest retaining the custom MX functionality you have now with the domain is what is being pondered.

    SPF settings? Firewall settings? (Depending on what's being used for the firewall manager...) SpamAssassin? (Things like fail2ban, of course, depending on the OS being used on the main MX...)

    That would apply if there was such a "main MX" entry or a single SMTP server, or any kind of first-point-of-entry. That I could understand, if not condone as a basic solution. You would have a server system that acts as the SMTP gateway for the domain, in turn forwarding emails as Netmail to whoever participates in the gating scheme.

    But in this case, there is a mile-long list of MX entries in DNS specifically covering individual Fido systems. Essentially every Fido sysop who has such an entry is implied that they have an SMTP server sitting behind it.

    When you multiply each of these SMTP servers, times the numerous number of different SMTP server packages, introduce the element of one of those being misconfigured, times the number of MX entries, you can see now why I am leaning towards nuking MX for everyone.

    Nick

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