• [OT] Yet another Microsoft documentation inconsistency

    From jj4public@vfemail.net@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:23 2019
    Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!n ews.albasani.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
    From: JJ <jj4public@vfemail.net>
    Newsgroups: alt.msdos.batch.nt,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsx p.help_and_support
    Subject: [OT] Yet another Microsoft documentation inconsistency
    Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 02:22:58 +0700
    Organization: ?
    Lines: 6
    Message-ID: <1wfvvff87ktcc$.21sn6pqzqw5$.dlg@40tude.net>
    Mime-Version: 1.0
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    X-Trace: news.albasani.net nyw6C0A4P5MRZJgV5Qe+VsFQXkWqtE80e+B5nkjDc4N1OLHeronCh+jQYiD1x29mPv+4c6s4DaELQxM T+bI4TwwTnTnkwYGX7egukvm7xc1sy6Tvh+Vx9+QrI+Vvsit/
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 19:23:00 +0000 (UTC)
    Injection-Info: news.albasani.net; logging-data="7WkslD0NQ0lpLZ4ggdb8eEl7Fr2NWdNMvdWe9cWfW/2DAzJ1O3JiiGZdtuqi7dXJu sU89V8lmoM1s+TBvthJtygHehQSaAw/Gh/L0lD15DOxPNUAxfV2hS33qj980bpd"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@albasani.net"
    User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.1
    X-Face: \*\`0(1j~VfYC>ebz[&O.]=,Nm\oRM{of,liRO#7Eqi4|!]!(Gs=Akgh{J)605>C9Air?pa d{sSZ09u+A7f<^paR"/NH_#<mE1S"hde\c6PZLUB[t/s5-+Iu5DSc?P0+4%,Hl
    Cancel-Lock: sha1:Y99sWryx3fBv2OIhGU0U/23lBRM=
    Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org alt.msdos.batch.nt:15345 microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:128352 microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support:31852

    These two TechNet pages describes the VERIFY command of CMD.EXE, but one of them lies.

    <https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb491029.aspx>

    <https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc754978.aspx>
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From address@not.available@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:23 2019
    Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!b order1.nntp.ams1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.ne ws.xs4all.nl!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!n ewsgate.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail
    From: "R.Wieser" <address@not.available>
    Newsgroups: alt.msdos.batch.nt,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsx p.help_and_support
    References: <1wfvvff87ktcc$.21sn6pqzqw5$.dlg@40tude.net>
    Subject: Re: [OT] Yet another Microsoft documentation inconsistency
    Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:20:49 +0200
    X-Priority: 3
    X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
    X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
    X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
    Lines: 34
    Message-ID: <575d0ce3$0$5866$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.163.119.5
    X-Trace: 1465715939 news.xs4all.nl 5866 83.163.119.5:1706
    X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
    Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org alt.msdos.batch.nt:15346 microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:128368 microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support:31854

    JJ,

    These two TechNet pages describes the VERIFY command of
    CMD.EXE, but one of them lies.

    Both can be considered to be true: The one one tells you the command exists
    and what the setting it gouverns its *ment* for, the other one tells you the setting is ignored. :-)

    But yes, I would, from the larger description, also assume that the setting would have its described effect. I would call it "lying by omission",
    though that would not hold in court, as both pieces are clearly available
    (as you've shown). :-\

    There remains a question though: does the OS now never, or always check if a write-action has succeeded (rather important when writing to a medium like a floppy).

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    -- Origional message:
    JJ <jj4public@vfemail.net> schreef in berichtnieuws 1wfvvff87ktcc$.21sn6pqzqw5$.dlg@40tude.net...
    These two TechNet pages describes the VERIFY command of CMD.EXE, but one
    of
    them lies.

    <https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb491029.aspx>

    <https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc754978.aspx>

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From jj4public@vfemail.net@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:23 2019
    Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!n ews.albasani.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
    From: JJ <jj4public@vfemail.net>
    Newsgroups: alt.msdos.batch.nt,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsx p.help_and_support
    Subject: Re: [OT] Yet another Microsoft documentation inconsistency
    Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 18:27:46 +0700
    Organization: ?
    Lines: 23
    Message-ID: <2mbl0mksq4id$.17gsy0z9rcgth$.dlg@40tude.net>
    References: <1wfvvff87ktcc$.21sn6pqzqw5$.dlg@40tude.net> <575d0ce3$0$5866$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
    Mime-Version: 1.0
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    X-Trace: news.albasani.net wnr4m9on/uMIhAZdXql54qXeJaxNtmsROSTKtVX1FEGMW396U99TRioi1d+ZMw3ydUqTWemTJt0MmT8 s7ZxYL+TeudiF9USPRsXKCuUTstMnhVZkErXSuzk6cDdQm1bU
    NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 11:27:48 +0000 (UTC)
    Injection-Info: news.albasani.net; logging-data="wIPZPtwN7FU0/snpuX1e+JKEm6evPMyIH4We3a3gNNw0dYxiJIzZw8UHac+s6Ix/u x+0sXwXyhT0mG1UpXkbx2LjujDXhVeINdanPsjRe0KHZq1oVvl6MP2AmWHV8Lhw"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@albasani.net"
    User-Agent: 40tude_Dialog/2.0.15.1
    X-Face: \*\`0(1j~VfYC>ebz[&O.]=,Nm\oRM{of,liRO#7Eqi4|!]!(Gs=Akgh{J)605>C9Air?pa d{sSZ09u+A7f<^paR"/NH_#<mE1S"hde\c6PZLUB[t/s5-+Iu5DSc?P0+4%,Hl
    Cancel-Lock: sha1:mK9ETPSK9e//I2+YBtNmUfRso/g=
    Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org alt.msdos.batch.nt:15347 microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:128369 microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support:31855

    On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:20:49 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

    Both can be considered to be true: The one one tells you the command exists and what the setting it gouverns its *ment* for, the other one tells you the setting is ignored. :-)

    But the conflict remains. One states that it's ignored in Windows XP, while
    the other one doesn't. The one that states it's ignored... makes it look
    that the command may actually exist on Windows 2000/NT4, kaput on Windows
    XP, then magically pop ups back in Vista and later.

    There remains a question though: does the OS now never, or always check if a write-action has succeeded (rather important when writing to a medium like a floppy).

    On WinNT, written data aren't verified. All disk write failures are hardware failures. I've checked all disk related device drivers and there's no
    reference to string "verify" except 3 kernel I/O functions which aren't
    related to disk-write verify. The File API doesn't seem to provide any
    support for it too - *including* transaction-enabled file operations
    (ouch!).

    Hopefully, nowadays storage ECCs are reliable enough.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From address@not.available@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:23 2019
    Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!b order1.nntp.ams1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.ne ws.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail
    From: "R.Wieser" <address@not.available>
    Newsgroups: alt.msdos.batch.nt,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsx p.help_and_support
    References: <1wfvvff87ktcc$.21sn6pqzqw5$.dlg@40tude.net> <575d0ce3$0$5866$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <2mbl0mksq4id$.17gsy0z9rcgth$.dlg@40tude.net>
    Subject: Re: [OT] Yet another Microsoft documentation inconsistency
    Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 14:02:36 +0200
    X-Priority: 3
    X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
    X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200
    X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200
    Lines: 69
    Message-ID: <575d4ef8$0$5955$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.163.119.5
    X-Trace: 1465732856 news.xs4all.nl 5955 83.163.119.5:1228
    X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
    Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org alt.msdos.batch.nt:15348 microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:128371 microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support:31856

    JJ,

    One states that it's ignored in Windows XP, while the other
    one doesn't.

    The latter one is what I ment by my "lying by ommision" remark: It makes you *assume* that the setting it gouverns has an(y) effect, while it actually doesn't.

    makes it look that the command may actually exist on Windows
    2000/NT4, kaput on Windows XP, then magically pop ups back
    in Vista and later.

    Pretty much, yes.

    ... though more "is ignored on OS ***" webpages might be floating around
    there ...

    (personally I get the feeling the setting is ignored on all of them)

    On WinNT, written data aren't verified. All disk write failures are
    hardware failures.
    ....
    Hopefully, nowadays storage ECCs are reliable enough.

    I can imagine that for the harddrives (which nowerdays are rather smart and have error checking, repairing and bad-sector management build in), but for (something like) a floppy ? Not so much ... And those floppies where, when
    XP was young, still in use.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    -- Origional message:
    JJ <jj4public@vfemail.net> schreef in berichtnieuws 2mbl0mksq4id$.17gsy0z9rcgth$.dlg@40tude.net...
    On Sun, 12 Jun 2016 09:20:49 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

    Both can be considered to be true: The one one tells you the command
    exists
    and what the setting it gouverns its *ment* for, the other one tells you
    the
    setting is ignored. :-)

    But the conflict remains. One states that it's ignored in Windows XP,
    while
    the other one doesn't. The one that states it's ignored... makes it look
    that the command may actually exist on Windows 2000/NT4, kaput on Windows
    XP, then magically pop ups back in Vista and later.

    There remains a question though: does the OS now never, or always check
    if a
    write-action has succeeded (rather important when writing to a medium
    like a
    floppy).

    On WinNT, written data aren't verified. All disk write failures are
    hardware
    failures. I've checked all disk related device drivers and there's no reference to string "verify" except 3 kernel I/O functions which aren't related to disk-write verify. The File API doesn't seem to provide any support for it too - *including* transaction-enabled file operations
    (ouch!).

    Hopefully, nowadays storage ECCs are reliable enough.


    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From foxidrive@server.invalid@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:23 2019
    Path: eternal-september.org!mx02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!a u2pb.net!feeder.erje.net!2.us.feeder.erje.net!newspeer1.nac.net!news.astraweb.c om!border6.newsrouter.astraweb.com!not-for-mail
    Subject: Re: [OT] Yet another Microsoft documentation inconsistency
    Newsgroups: alt.msdos.batch.nt,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general,microsoft.public.windowsx p.help_and_support
    References: <1wfvvff87ktcc$.21sn6pqzqw5$.dlg@40tude.net>
    From: foxidrive <foxidrive@server.invalid>
    Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 00:00:25 +1000
    User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101
    Thunderbird/45.1.1
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    In-Reply-To: <1wfvvff87ktcc$.21sn6pqzqw5$.dlg@40tude.net>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
    Lines: 21
    Message-ID: <575d6afb$0$27579$c3e8da3$fdf4f6af@news.astraweb.com>
    Organization: Unlimited download news at news.astraweb.com
    NNTP-Posting-Host: ae41f01f.news.astraweb.com
    X-Trace: DXC=AX@]39B=5CbJRZZkg^aP1jL?0kYOcDh@jZD3?OaX:SkmNUD]k];EK]nl9B_G1R=S=gTe7ZV7ei[ nh^3bOi5<YS8mfQiG4e_e@8bVb6REoJfX\j
    Xref: mx02.eternal-september.org alt.msdos.batch.nt:15349 microsoft.public.windowsxp.general:128373 microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support:31857

    On 12/06/2016 05:22, JJ wrote:
    These two TechNet pages describes the VERIFY command of CMD.EXE, but one of them lies.

    <https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb491029.aspx>

    This one is right. Back in MSDOS days we knew that verify didn't actually test that the data was written correctly either. In Batpower forum on
    Fidonet there was discussion of batch files and command.com galore.

    A MUF V1.7 file exists from Mr Bat Lang in that forum and explaining the Microsoft Undocumented Features.

    It was great fun then too.


    <https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc754978.aspx>



    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)