• non-CM nodes

    From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to All on Tue Aug 30 08:14:20 2022
    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a non-CM node at its open hours?

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail, renames the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    Any other way?

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Carlos Navarro on Tue Aug 30 09:12:59 2022
    Hi Carlos,

    On 2022-08-30 08:14:20, you wrote to All:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a non-CM
    node at its open hours?

    Do you have a non-CM link? Or is this a theoretical problem? ;)

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail, renames the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    That would be difficult to sync with binkd, that probably starts handling the files immediately when it's created by the tosser, and the .?SY files are deleted.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/360 to Carlos Navarro on Tue Aug 30 17:17:27 2022
    On 30.8.2022 9.14, Carlos Navarro wrote:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a non-CM
    node at its open hours?

    I don't see a problem to have my binkd to try n times and if failed, then hold for n minutes, and do that around the clock. It doesn't cost much. ;)

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail, renames
    the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    Sure, why not.

    I ran a non-CM IP-node once, it was because my internet over ISDN was "free" from 17:00 to 07:00 and 24h weekends. But why such a node nowadays?

    'Tommi

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.2.0
    * Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Wilfred van Velzen on Sun Sep 11 10:05:35 2022
    30 Aug 2022 09:12, you wrote to me:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a
    non-CM node at its open hours?

    Do you have a non-CM link? Or is this a theoretical problem? ;)

    Theoretical. :-)

    Besides non-CM nodes, it could be useful for points...

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail,
    renames the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    That would be difficult to sync with binkd, that probably starts
    handling the files immediately when it's created by the tosser, and
    the .?SY files are deleted.

    I'm testing this with a CM link (renaming to .HLO just after tossing, and after packing netmail) and works fine.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Tommi Koivula on Sun Sep 11 10:06:47 2022
    30 Aug 2022 17:17, you wrote to me:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a non-CM
    node at its open hours?

    I don't see a problem to have my binkd to try n times and if failed,
    then hold for n minutes, and do that around the clock. It doesn't cost much. ;)

    If you don't mind filling your logs with retries...

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail, renames
    the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    Sure, why not.

    Seems to work fine.

    I ran a non-CM IP-node once, it was because my internet over ISDN was "free" from 17:00 to 07:00 and 24h weekends.

    Ah yes, for some time I also had an internet access like that, but with POTS.

    But why such a node nowadays?

    Reducing energy consumption (or the electricity bill), who knows...

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Carlos Navarro on Mon Sep 12 10:23:35 2022
    Hi Carlos,

    On 2022-09-11 10:05:35, you wrote to me:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a
    non-CM node at its open hours?

    Do you have a non-CM link? Or is this a theoretical problem? ;)

    Theoretical. :-)

    I think non-CM in combination with IBN, most of the time is an error in the nodelist. I never found a non-CM + IBN node that was actually just connectable at ZMH. And it doesn't make sense either. Non-CM used to exist for nodes with 1 phone line, that wanted to reserve the 1 line for BBS users. That doesn't make sense for IBN nodes. Where you can have as many concurrent TCP connections as you like on the "one" IP link.

    Besides non-CM nodes, it could be useful for points...

    Points that are not CM, should just poll their boss. ;-)

    I can think of a batch/script that, after processing mail,
    renames the node's .?LO file to .HLO at the offline hours.

    That would be difficult to sync with binkd, that probably starts
    handling the files immediately when it's created by the tosser, and
    the .?SY files are deleted.

    I'm testing this with a CM link (renaming to .HLO just after tossing, and after packing netmail) and works fine.

    Then you are just lucky, because no .?SY files are used, binkd could just grab the .?LO file, and do it's thing before your scripts rename them to .HLO...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Wilfred van Velzen on Mon Sep 12 17:19:40 2022
    Non-CM used to exist for nodes with 1 phone line, that wanted to reserve the 1 line for BBS users. That doesn't make sense for IBN nodes.

    Have you already forgotten about dial-up internet? :)


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Bjrn Felten on Mon Sep 12 17:30:35 2022
    Hi Bjrn,

    On 2022-09-12 17:19:40, you wrote to me:

    Non-CM used to exist for nodes with 1 phone line, that wanted to
    reserve the 1 line for BBS users. That doesn't make sense for IBN
    nodes.

    Have you already forgotten about dial-up internet? :)

    Does it still exist?

    I don't think those internet connections were used much for binkp connections. Was there even an overlapping time period, when dial-up internet was still a thing, and binkd was develloped already?

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Mon Sep 12 17:38:53 2022
    Hello Bjrn,

    On Monday September 12 2022 17:19, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    Non-CM used to exist for nodes with 1 phone line, that wanted to
    reserve the 1 line for BBS users. That doesn't make sense for
    IBN nodes.

    Have you already forgotten about dial-up internet? :)

    Yes, I forgot about it because it no longer exists here. Dial up internet only exists in combination with good old POTS and that is history in most parts of the world. I would not know of any provider here that still offers dial up internet. It makes no sense. Voice telephony is VOIP. Without a digital internet connection, you have no telephone. And that internet connection is a 24/7 connection. Here analog telephony only exist as the last decameter from the ATA next to the cable modem to the telephone on my desk. And that last analog decameter will be history in the near future too.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Wilfred van Velzen on Mon Sep 12 20:03:45 2022
    Have you already forgotten about dial-up internet? :)

    Does it still exist?

    I don't know. But since single phase 110V electrical installations still is the only available option (except for 2x110V from a mid tapped transformer) even for single home owners in some parts of the world, I would not rule it out. 8-)


    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Sep 12 20:16:06 2022
    MvdV> Yes, I forgot about it because it no longer exists here. Dial up
    MvdV> internet only exists in combination with good old POTS and that is
    MvdV> history in most parts of the world. I would not know of any provider
    MvdV> here that still offers dial up internet. It makes no sense. Voice
    MvdV> telephony is VOIP. Without a digital internet connection, you have no
    MvdV> telephone. And that internet connection is a 24/7 connection. Here
    MvdV> analog telephony only exist as the last decameter from the ATA next to
    MvdV> the cable modem to the telephone on my desk. And that last analog
    MvdV> decameter will be history in the near future too.

    I usually don't quote this much, but since I totally agree with everything you say, I couldn't trim the above.

    But I only want to add how easy it is for us Euro Trash Pacifist Shit Pig Pussies to forget how fortunate we are. I've lost count of the fibre adoption in Sweden, but last time I checked it was something like 90% of all households. I guess you in the Netherlands are not far behind?

    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Sep 13 13:21:06 2022
    Wilfred wrote (2022-09-12):

    Was there even an overlapping time period, when dial-up
    internet was still a thing, and binkd was develloped already?

    Yes, in 1996 internet over dial-up and ISDN was the only option for most users at home.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binkp

    ---
    * Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (2:280/464.47)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Oli on Tue Sep 13 14:29:24 2022
    Hi Oli,

    On 2022-09-13 13:21:06, you wrote to me:

    Was there even an overlapping time period, when dial-up
    internet was still a thing, and binkd was develloped already?

    Yes, in 1996 internet over dial-up and ISDN was the only option for most users at home.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binkp

    At that time most bbs's were still dial-up, so users/sysops didn't need the internet to connect to other nodes.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Björn Felten on Tue Sep 13 13:50:11 2022
    Hello Bjrn,

    On Monday September 12 2022 20:16, you wrote to me:

    I usually don't quote this much, but since I totally agree with everything you say, I couldn't trim the above.

    ;-)

    But I only want to add how easy it is for us Euro Trash Pacifist Shit
    Pig Pussies

    ;-)

    to forget how fortunate we are. I've lost count of the fibre adoption
    in Sweden, but last time I checked it was something like 90% of all households. I guess you in the Netherlands are not far behind?

    We are behind but not all that far. 90% fibre adoption is estimated to be reached in 2025. A fibre company is presently digging in my village and they are expected to reach my street in October. With a bit of luck the connection will be operational before Alla helgons dag.

    Until then I have a robust internet connection via cable. Had it for 15 years or so. Before that: ADSL over twisted pair.

    The good old twisted pair originally designed for POTS is being fased out. In new building areas twisted pair is no longer offered, the choice is between cable and fibre. In other places where fibre is installed the twisted pair is decommissioned and the copper is salvaged for reuse wherever practical.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Björn Felten@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Sep 13 17:54:45 2022
    MvdV> before Alla helgons dag.

    LOL! Thanks, I love it. <3

    --
    United we are strong, we win. Divided we are weak, we lose.

    ..

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
    * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wed Sep 14 20:19:00 2022
    On 09-12-22 17:38, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-

    analog telephony only exist as the last decameter from the ATA next to the cable modem to the telephone on my desk. And that last analog decameter will be history in the near future too.

    Not even that here, the landline is a DECT handset. While I have a couple of analogue phone ports, they are currently unused.


    ... Operating system overwritten. Terribly sorry.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tony Langdon on Wed Sep 14 16:51:02 2022
    Hello Tony,

    On Wednesday September 14 2022 20:19, you wrote to me:

    analog telephony only exist as the last decameter from the ATA
    next to the cable modem to the telephone on my desk. And that
    last analog decameter will be history in the near future too.

    Not even that here, the landline is a DECT handset.

    That too is a transition step. The next logical step is cordless VOIP telephones that directly connect via the WiFi mesh network in the house.

    While I have a couple of analogue phone ports, they are currently
    unused.

    I still have an analog PABX is use, but it is nearing end of life...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Wilfred van Velzen on Mon Sep 19 21:28:28 2022
    12 Sep 2022 10:23, you wrote to me:

    How would you do (or are you doing) to make binkd only poll a
    non-CM node at its open hours?

    Do you have a non-CM link? Or is this a theoretical problem? ;)

    Theoretical. :-)

    I think non-CM in combination with IBN, most of the time is an error
    in the nodelist. I never found a non-CM + IBN node that was actually
    just connectable at ZMH. And it doesn't make sense either.

    A non-CM node doesn't have to be a ZMH-only node. As you know, it can carry the ,Tyz flag.
    A sysop may not want or need to have her system running 24 hours a day, for whatever reason.

    Besides non-CM nodes, it could be useful for points...

    Points that are not CM, should just poll their boss. ;-)

    IMO a boss and a point can make their connections in any way they agree... (Also, the point can be the sysop.)

    I'm testing this with a CM link (renaming to .HLO just after
    tossing, and after packing netmail) and works fine.

    Then you are just lucky, because no .?SY files are used, binkd could
    just grab the .?LO file, and do it's thing before your scripts rename
    them to .HLO...

    I may do some more tests, to see if can be less lucky... :-)

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Carlos Navarro on Tue Sep 20 08:40:59 2022
    Hi Carlos,

    On 2022-09-19 21:28:28, you wrote to me:

    I think non-CM in combination with IBN, most of the time is an error
    in the nodelist. I never found a non-CM + IBN node that was actually
    just connectable at ZMH. And it doesn't make sense either.

    A non-CM node doesn't have to be a ZMH-only node. As you know, it can carry
    the ,Tyz flag. A sysop may not want or need to have her system running 24 hours a day, for whatever reason.

    Either way, I have never seen this working correctly.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Carlos Navarro on Tue Sep 20 21:49:13 2022
    Hello Carlos,

    On Monday September 19 2022 21:28, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    I think non-CM in combination with IBN, most of the time is an
    error in the nodelist. I never found a non-CM + IBN node that was
    actually just connectable at ZMH. And it doesn't make sense
    either.

    A non-CM node doesn't have to be a ZMH-only node. As you know, it can carry the ,Tyz flag. A sysop may not want or need to have her system running 24 hours a day, for whatever reason.

    Theoretically that is possible and a non CM binkp node is not against the rules. But it is against common sense. Binkp connectibility requires an internet connection and these days internet connetions are up 24/7. It takes EFFORT to configure a binkp system for non CM operation, it strongy reduces connectivity and there are no benefits that I can see.

    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Oli@2:280/464.47 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Sep 20 21:47:09 2022
    Michiel wrote (2022-09-20):

    A non-CM node doesn't have to be a ZMH-only node. As you know, it
    can carry the ,Tyz flag. A sysop may not want or need to have her
    system running 24 hours a day, for whatever reason.

    MvdV> Theoretically that is possible and a non CM binkp node is not against the
    MvdV> rules. But it is against common sense. Binkp connectibility requires an
    MvdV> internet connection and these days internet connetions are up 24/7. It
    MvdV> takes EFFORT to configure a binkp system for non CM operation, it strongy
    MvdV> reduces connectivity and there are no benefits that I can see.

    We have to save energy. I'm not reading my mails after midnight, why not put the computer to sleep as well.

    ---
    * Origin: War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. (2:280/464.47)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wed Sep 21 19:21:00 2022
    On 09-14-22 16:51, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    analog telephony only exist as the last decameter from the ATA
    next to the cable modem to the telephone on my desk. And that
    last analog decameter will be history in the near future too.

    Not even that here, the landline is a DECT handset.

    That too is a transition step. The next logical step is cordless VOIP telephones that directly connect via the WiFi mesh network in the
    house.

    I have softphones on devices as well that act as cordless wifi handsets.

    While I have a couple of analogue phone ports, they are currently
    unused.

    I still have an analog PABX is use, but it is nearing end of life...

    I've never had one of those. Any PBXs I've played with have been digital (software or embedded).


    ... The truth is the safest lie.
    === MultiMail/Win v0.52
    --- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
    * Origin: Freeway BBS Bendigo,Australia freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Oli on Wed Sep 21 16:59:10 2022
    Hello Oli,

    On Tuesday September 20 2022 21:47, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> Theoretically that is possible and a non CM binkp node is not
    MvdV>> against the rules. But it is against common sense. Binkp
    MvdV>> connectibility requires an internet connection and these days
    MvdV>> internet connetions are up 24/7. It takes EFFORT to configure a
    MvdV>> binkp system for non CM operation, it strongy reduces
    MvdV>> connectivity and there are no benefits that I can see.

    We have to save energy. I'm not reading my mails after midnight, why
    not put the computer to sleep as well.

    Because it would seriously degrade my connectivity. The switch from dial up connection via analog POTS to a "wideband" internet connection brought greater speed, but for Fidonet the main improvement was going to 24/7 connectivity without additional cost. That was a major change for the better and the Fidoweb as we have it now would be impossible without it. Going back to non 24/7 connectivity is not an option for me. I may consider moving from a full desktop to a Raspbery Pi for the node. It only takes 5 Watt.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Angel Ripoll@2:341/66 to Michiel Van Der Vlist on Wed Sep 21 18:09:48 2022
    Hola Michiel!

    21 Sep 22 16:59, Michiel van der Vlist dijo a Oli:

    MvdV> brought greater speed, but for Fidonet the main improvement was going to
    MvdV> 24/7 connectivity without additional cost. That was a major change for

    The cost of electricity. A computer to host the system can consume more than 100 KWh per month.

    MvdV> consider moving from a full desktop to a Raspbery Pi for the node. It
    MvdV> only takes 5 Watt.

    Less than that. My node is in a raspi 4 and is consuming an average power of 3.3W, which gives an average consumption of less than 2.5 KWh per month. Much difference. I've been measuring it for over two months.

    Un saludo,
    Angel Ripoll
    aripoll @ zruspas.org

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20220504 + HPT 1.9 + Binkd 1.1 en Debian
    * Origin: Synchronet - bbs.zruspas.org - Zruspa's BBS - (2:341/66)
  • From Stas Mishchenkov@2:460/5858 to Angel Ripoll on Fri Sep 23 22:54:12 2022
    Hi, Angel!

    21 ᥭ 22 18:09, Angel Ripoll -> Michiel Van Der Vlist:

    MvdV>> brought greater speed, but for Fidonet the main improvement was
    MvdV>> going to 24/7 connectivity without additional cost. That was a
    MvdV>> major change for

    The cost of electricity. A computer to host the system can consume more than 100 KWh per month.

    I have HP Proliant server fore Fido. It takes about 57.6 kWh per month (with router and switch). It costs for me about 1.6 euro.

    Have nice nights.
    Stas Mishchenkov.

    --- 㯮 砩, ⮬ ⠭ 訬 ⠬ .
    * Origin: Lame Users Breeding. Simferopol, Crimea. (2:460/5858)
  • From Angel Ripoll@2:341/66 to Stas Mishchenkov on Sat Sep 24 01:57:50 2022
    Hola Stas!

    23 Sep 22 22:54, Stas Mishchenkov dijo a Angel Ripoll:

    The cost of electricity. A computer to host the system can consume
    more than 100 KWh per month.

    I have HP Proliant server fore Fido. It takes about 57.6 kWh per month (with router and switch). It costs for me about 1.6 euro.

    Perhaps I have overestimated it, but even though it is 50 KWh, the price of electricity in Spain is ¤0.20/KWh. Much more than those ¤1.6 that you pay

    Un saludo,
    Angel Ripoll
    aripoll @ zruspas.org

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20220504 + HPT 1.9 + Binkd 1.1 en Debian
    * Origin: Synchronet - bbs.zruspas.org - Zruspa's BBS - (2:341/66)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Sep 25 21:41:26 2022
    20 Sep 2022 21:49, you wrote to me:

    It takes EFFORT to configure a binkp system for non CM operation,

    I don't think it would take much effort.

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada (2:341/234)
  • From Fred Riccio@1:132/174 to Michiel and Carlos on Sun Sep 25 17:02:28 2022
    Hello Michiel!

    20 Sep 22 21:49, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Carlos Navarro:

    MvdV> It takes EFFORT to configure a binkp system for non CM operation

    If your tosser is Squish, read up on the SCHED, LEAVE, UNLEAVE, and CHANGE routing commands. RTFM doesn't take much effort <shrug>.

    --- Msged/NT 6.0.1
    * Origin: Somewhere in New Hampshire's White Mountains (1:132/174)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Fred Riccio on Sun Sep 25 23:16:25 2022
    Hello Fred,

    On Sunday September 25 2022 17:02, you wrote to Michiel and Carlos:

    MvdV>> It takes EFFORT to configure a binkp system for non CM
    MvdV>> operation

    If your tosser is Squish, read up on the SCHED, LEAVE, UNLEAVE, and
    CHANGE routing commands. RTFM doesn't take much effort <shrug>.

    My tosser is not Squish.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.eu (2:280/5555)
  • From Carlos Navarro@2:341/234.1 to Fred Riccio on Tue Oct 4 18:29:04 2022
    25 Sep 2022 17:02, you wrote to Michiel and Carlos:

    MvdV>> It takes EFFORT to configure a binkp system for non CM
    MvdV>> operation

    If your tosser is Squish,

    Mine isn't either :-)

    read up on the SCHED, LEAVE, UNLEAVE, and CHANGE routing commands.

    Very interesting. I didn't know about that (never used Squish). Thanks for the info!

    Carlos

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20180707
    * Origin: cyberiada point (2:341/234.1)