• ARRL Requests Expanded HF

    From Daryl Stout@1:19/33 to ED VANCE on Sat Mar 3 02:11:00 2018
    Ed,

    I'm thinking the proposal was to help Amateur Radio Manufacturers.
    But I may be wrong.

    Speculation was that may be part of it...or to try to get ARRL new
    members.

    I was a A.R.R.L. Member for about 10 Years.

    I'm an ARRL Life Member...but except for being one of the VE's with
    their VEC, I do very little with them.

    I am going to go back to the other Echo and read all of what that ARLB007 EV>says.

    The FCC hasn't issued a call for comments, and I'd be very surprised
    if this got anywhere. To me, let them upgrade to General Class
    license...they'd get far more privileges, and when I took the exam back
    in 2007 (just after the pool had changed), I thought it was "a piece of
    cake".

    Daryl, WX1DER

    ===
    OLX 1.53 113 grams, 10 milliliters -- He's lead, Jim.
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Win32
    * Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)
  • From Ed Vance@1:2320/105 to Daryl Stout on Sun Mar 4 17:07:00 2018
    03-03-18 02:11 Daryl Stout wrote to ED VANCE about ARRL Requests Expanded HF Howdy! Daryl,

    @MSGID: <5A9BD1D6.1774.amtradio@capitolcityonline.net>
    Ed,

    I'm thinking the proposal was to help Amateur Radio Manufacturers.
    But I may be wrong.

    Speculation was that may be part of it...or to try to get ARRL new members.

    I was a A.R.R.L. Member for about 10 Years.

    I'm an ARRL Life Member...but except for being one of the VE's with their VEC, I do very little with them.

    I am going to go back to the other Echo and read all of what that ARLB007
    says.

    The FCC hasn't issued a call for comments, and I'd be very surprised
    if this got anywhere. To me, let them upgrade to General Class license...they'd get far more privileges, and when I took the exam back
    in 2007 (just after the pool had changed), I thought it was "a piece of cake".

    Why should Technicians try to upgrade to the General Class?

    Since the CW Element for the Amateur Radio Exam has been discontinued
    isn't the Written Test Element the SAME for the Technician and General
    Class Licenses as it was in 1959 when I took the the Tech and General
    written exams?

    If so.

    Shouldn't Technicians automatically become owners of a General License
    since the 13 WPM CW Element isn't a requirement anymore.

    Now that the Novice Class License is no longer the entry level why doesn't
    the F.C.C. drop the Technician Class License and just offer Operating Privileges for only the General and Amateur Extra Class Licenses?

    What say ..--..

    73 de Ed W9ODR ..



    ... Johnson & Johnson Tagline: ###############
    --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
    * Origin: CCO BBS - capitolcityonline.net:26 (1:2320/105)
  • From Ed Vance@1:2320/105 to Daryl Stout on Sun Mar 4 17:27:00 2018
    03-03-18 02:11 Daryl Stout wrote to ED VANCE about ARRL Requests Expanded HF Howdy! Daryl, (again)
    @MSGID: <5A9BD1D6.1774.amtradio@capitolcityonline.net>
    Ed,
    -snip-
    I'm an ARRL Life Member...but except for being one of the VE's with their VEC, I do very little with them.

    You would know for sure.
    Is the General and Technician Written Test the same?

    Thanks, es 73 de Ed W9ODR K


    ... Multitasking allows messing up several things at once.
    --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
    * Origin: CCO BBS - capitolcityonline.net:26 (1:2320/105)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:19/33 to ED VANCE on Tue Mar 6 11:26:00 2018
    Howdy! Daryl,

    Hi, Ed...

    Shouldn't Technicians automatically become owners of a General License EV>since the 13 WPM CW Element isn't a requirement anymore.

    They can be, if they prove they held an amateur radio license prior to
    March 21, 1987. If they have that, and the license was Technician, they
    just go to a VE Test Session, fill out the paperwork, pay the fee, and
    they get a CSCE for a General Class license WITHOUT having to take an
    exam. That's the ONLY license class with that.

    Now that the Novice Class License is no longer the entry level why doesn't EV>the F.C.C. drop the Technician Class License and just offer Operating EV>Privileges for only the General and Amateur Extra Class Licenses?

    A large chunk of hams...Novice, Techician, and Advanced Class
    licensees, would then be left out in the cold. The Technician Class
    license is all that one needs to get into the hobby, and many are
    content with that...plus, over half of the licensed hams are
    Technicians. The FCC quit issuing Novice and Advanced Licenses back in
    2000, but holders of them can still renew them at the appopriate time.

    Never mind the fact that the gear manufacturers would have far fewer customers, and organizations (ARRL and otherwise) would have far fewer
    members. The hobby is dying, as so many are...because we can't seem to
    "stop the bleeding" of those who are letting their licenses lapse, or
    who are becoming Silent Keys.

    While I have an Amateur Extra Class license, that was ONLY because I
    wanted to become a Volunteer Examiner, and eventually a VE Team Liaison.
    When I'm on the air, I'm EXCLUSIVELY in the Technician Class bands, as I
    ENJOY them. Besides, HF propagation for the last several years, has been absolutely pitiful. The last time I worked HF was with a Special Event
    Station with the Arkansas And Missouri Railroad Troop Train, back in
    May, 2011, on 20 meter Railroad Mobile HF.

    Then, you have all those traffic and specialty nets (including the
    Trains Net that I do on D-Star, and it's growing every week...plus
    Skywarn Severe Weather Nets), that are the only time some folks get on
    the air.

    There's something in the hobby for every license class. While I tried
    CW, the nervous system damage from 2 lightning strikes over the years
    makes it impossible to transcribe what I'm hearing to letters. I never
    cared for contesting...and do all my QSLing now via eQSL. For their 20th anniversary, I purchased a Platinum Lifetime Membership.

    ... Johnson & Johnson Tagline: ###############

    That's just a Band-Aid for a tagline that was cut and pasted into the
    QWK reader. <G>

    Daryl

    ===
    OLX 1.53 A new cemetery opened in town: folks are dying to enter.
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Win32
    * Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:19/33 to ED VANCE on Tue Mar 6 11:04:00 2018
    Ed,

    Is the General and Technician Written Test the same?

    Not any more. However, before March 21, 1987, the Technician and
    General written exam WERE IDENTICAL -- the only difference was a 5 wpm
    CW exam for the Technician (which you already had, if you had a Novice
    License beforehand), and a 13 wpm CW exam for the General.

    I've had these experiences at exam sessions (I've been a VE going on
    11 years now):

    1) If an examinee walks in to the session with a Technician ham radio
    license that was issued on March 20, 1987 or before, all they have to do
    is show ID, pay the fee, fill out the paperwork, and they get a CSCE for
    a General Class license WITHOUT having to take an exam first; basically,
    it's "grandfathered". This is the ONLY exam that you can get an upgrade
    for, without testing.

    The caveat is that the license has to be CURRENT -- if it has lapsed
    (it's expired more than 2 years (item 2 below), they go to category 2B
    below.

    2) If an examinee walks in to the session with a lapsed (expired more
    than 2 years) license, the term of the license class determines what
    "prior credit" they have.

    A) If it was a Novice or Technician Class license, they have NOTHING --
    as if they had never taken an exam (no license or callsign -- which is
    the case for anyone whose license has lapsed). They show their ID, pay
    the fee, fill out the paperwork, and have to take and pass the
    Technician Exam to be back into the hobby. They are issued a CSCE for a Technician Class license.

    B) If it was a General Class license, or a lapsed Technician Class
    license that was issued on March 20, 1987 or before...they have credit
    for Element 3, the General Exam (proof of such is required). However,
    without the lower level (Element 2 Technician), they have NOTHING. So,
    they have to show their ID, pay the fee, fill out the paperwork, then
    take and pass the Technician exam. They are then issued a CSCE for a
    General Class license.

    C) If it was an Advanced Class license, the credit is the same as item
    2B above (proof of such is required). However, since the Advanced Class
    license was discontinued in April, 2000 (as was the Novice Class
    license), they are DOWNGRADED to General, and are basically the same as
    item 2B above.

    D) If it was an Amateur Extra Class license, they have credit for
    Element 3, the General exam...and Element 4, the Amateur Extra exam
    (proof of such is required). However, without Element 2, the Technician
    exam, they have NOTHING. So, they have to show their ID, pay the fee,
    fill out the paperwork, then take and pass the Techician exam. They
    are then issued a CSCE for an Amateur Extra Class license.

    With items 2A through 2D above, they will get a new license and
    callsign about 2 weeks after the exam. If they don't see their license
    in the FCC ULS after 2 weeks, then they need to call the VEC, or the VE
    Team Leader, and find out what the delay is.

    If their former callsign is still available under the vanity callsign
    system, they can apply for it, but they have to wait at least 21 days
    before it's granted.

    Daryl, WX1DER, ARRL/VEC Amateur Extra Class VE

    ===
    OLX 1.53 A nudist wedding makes it easy to identify the best man.
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Win32
    * Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)
  • From Jeff Smith@1:282/1031 to Ed Vance on Tue Mar 6 20:19:12 2018
    Hello Ed,

    You would know for sure.
    Is the General and Technician Written Test the same?

    I didn't think the General test was that much harder at all. The only part that
    was a tad harder was memorizing the band plans and knowing what frequencies went where, but that clicked eventually. Everything else is basic electronic theory. The Technician license seemed to focus on rules and regulations, while the General is more technology-based.

    Jeff

    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: The Ouija Board (1:282/1031)
  • From Ed Vance@1:2320/105 to Daryl Stout on Tue Mar 6 22:56:00 2018
    03-06-18 11:26 Daryl Stout wrote to ED VANCE about ARRL Requests Expanded HF Howdy! Daryl,

    @MSGID: <5A9F0BFC.1778.amtradio@capitolcityonline.net>
    Howdy! Daryl,

    Hi, Ed...

    Shouldn't Technicians automatically become owners of a General License
    since the 13 WPM CW Element isn't a requirement anymore.

    They can be, if they prove they held an amateur radio license prior
    to March 21, 1987. If they have that, and the license was Technician,
    they just go to a VE Test Session, fill out the paperwork, pay the fee, and they get a CSCE for a General Class license WITHOUT having to take
    an exam. That's the ONLY license class with that.

    Now that the Novice Class License is no longer the entry level why doesn't
    the F.C.C. drop the Technician Class License and just offer Operating
    Privileges for only the General and Amateur Extra Class Licenses?

    A large chunk of hams...Novice, Techician, and Advanced Class
    licensees, would then be left out in the cold. The Technician Class

    Licensed Hams in those three Classes can still Renew their License when the time comes.
    I just did that in August 2017 for my Advanced Ticket.
    -snip-

    Never mind the fact that the gear manufacturers would have far fewer customers, and organizations (ARRL and otherwise) would have far fewer members. The hobby is dying, as so many are...because we can't seem to "stop the bleeding" of those who are letting their licenses lapse, or
    who are becoming Silent Keys.

    Those who fit in that last catagory can't prevent the reason that keeps
    them from Renewing their License.
    -snip-

    There's something in the hobby for every license class. While I tried CW, the nervous system damage from 2 lightning strikes over the years makes it impossible to transcribe what I'm hearing to letters. I never cared for contesting...and do all my QSLing now via eQSL. For their
    20th anniversary, I purchased a Platinum Lifetime Membership.

    You don't have to listen to CW anymore, use the computer on the CW Bands.
    Make QSOs with a perfect fist.

    I own a Bug but a J-38 Key fits my hand too, never tried computer CW myself
    but seen other Hams use their PC for more than keeping the Log.

    ... Johnson & Johnson Tagline: ###############

    That's just a Band-Aid for a tagline that was cut and pasted into the QWK reader. <G>

    It appears that OLX couldn't show that ASCII Graphic Characters my First Aid Tagline used.

    The BandAid graphic is 5 $DB's (219), 5 $B0's (176) and 5 $DB's (219).

    ###############

    I just used Alt Key 219 five times, Alt Key 176 five times and Alt Key 219
    five times to make the image of a BandAid.

    Could You see the ASCII Graphic in OLX, but was not able to get it into
    Your Reply to Me?
    Or is 15 Pound Signs all that You saw in my Tagline and see in this message?

    73 de Ed W9ODR . .

    ... Circular Definition: see Definition, Circular
    --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
    * Origin: CCO BBS - capitolcityonline.net:26 (1:2320/105)
  • From Ed Vance@1:2320/105 to Daryl Stout on Tue Mar 6 23:33:00 2018
    03-06-18 11:04 Daryl Stout wrote to ED VANCE about ARRL Requests Expanded HF Howdy! Daryl,

    @MSGID: <5A9F0BFC.1779.amtradio@capitolcityonline.net>
    Ed,

    Is the General and Technician Written Test the same?

    Not any more. However, before March 21, 1987, the Technician and
    General written exam WERE IDENTICAL -- the only difference was a 5 wpm
    CW exam for the Technician (which you already had, if you had a Novice License beforehand), and a 13 wpm CW exam for the General.

    That is strange.
    I can't remember but back in 1959 when I took and passed the Technician
    Exam to keep my Call Sign active, I'm thinking I took a Morse Code Test
    before I took the written portion of the Exam.
    I can't remember ever taking a test for a Amateur Radio Operators License without writing some code down first.
    But I may be wrong, I have - many many many times B4 been wrong.
    And 60+/- years is a long period so I could be mistaken about the CW test.

    I've had these experiences at exam sessions (I've been a VE going on
    11 years now):

    1) If an examinee walks in to the session with a Technician ham radio license that was issued on March 20, 1987 or before, all they have to
    do is show ID, pay the fee, fill out the paperwork, and they get a CSCE for a General Class license WITHOUT having to take an exam first; basically, it's "grandfathered". This is the ONLY exam that you can get
    an upgrade for, without testing.

    The caveat is that the license has to be CURRENT -- if it has lapsed (it's expired more than 2 years (item 2 below), they go to category 2B below.

    2) If an examinee walks in to the session with a lapsed (expired more
    than 2 years) license, the term of the license class determines what "prior credit" they have.

    A) If it was a Novice or Technician Class license, they have NOTHING --
    as if they had never taken an exam (no license or callsign -- which is
    the case for anyone whose license has lapsed). They show their ID, pay
    the fee, fill out the paperwork, and have to take and pass the
    Technician Exam to be back into the hobby. They are issued a CSCE for a Technician Class license.

    B) If it was a General Class license, or a lapsed Technician Class
    license that was issued on March 20, 1987 or before...they have credit
    for Element 3, the General Exam (proof of such is required). However, without the lower level (Element 2 Technician), they have NOTHING. So, they have to show their ID, pay the fee, fill out the paperwork, then
    take and pass the Technician exam. They are then issued a CSCE for a General Class license.

    C) If it was an Advanced Class license, the credit is the same as item
    2B above (proof of such is required). However, since the Advanced Class license was discontinued in April, 2000 (as was the Novice Class
    license), they are DOWNGRADED to General, and are basically the same as item 2B above.

    D) If it was an Amateur Extra Class license, they have credit for
    Element 3, the General exam...and Element 4, the Amateur Extra exam
    (proof of such is required). However, without Element 2, the Technician exam, they have NOTHING. So, they have to show their ID, pay the fee,
    fill out the paperwork, then take and pass the Techician exam. They
    are then issued a CSCE for an Amateur Extra Class license.

    With items 2A through 2D above, they will get a new license and
    callsign about 2 weeks after the exam. If they don't see their license
    in the FCC ULS after 2 weeks, then they need to call the VEC, or the VE Team Leader, and find out what the delay is.

    If their former callsign is still available under the vanity callsign system, they can apply for it, but they have to wait at least 21 days before it's granted.

    For someone with a Expired Amateur Extra ticket that Element 2 sounds
    STUPID (to Me).

    I've taken the Amateur Extra Exam once.
    It was supervised by an F.C.C. Employee.

    I Passed the CW portion, Flunked the Written portion, walked out with a Temporary Advance Class License until the F.C.C. sent the License to me
    in the Mail.

    There were lots of things in the Amateur Extra exam I took that I had
    no idea about.
    One I remember was something about (iirc) Grid Modulation of a UHF Power Amplifier.
    And I believe another was about some kind of operating through a satellite.

    I never took another Ham Exam.
    When I left the Room I almost had the same license priviledges I had in
    1959 when I got the General Class License in the Mail.

    One of the reasons I can't consider reJoining the League.
    To Me That Organization is NOT of, for, by the amateurs like I think
    their motto used to say a long long long time ago.

    73 de Ed W9ODR
    And YES I believe I can still pass the CW and Written Test for MY License
    if needed to.
    . .


    ... God a blur? Focus on Jesus.
    --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
    * Origin: CCO BBS - capitolcityonline.net:26 (1:2320/105)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:19/33 to ED VANCE on Wed Mar 7 12:49:00 2018
    Howdy! Daryl,

    Hi, Ed...

    Licensed Hams in those three Classes can still Renew their License when the EV>time comes.
    I just did that in August 2017 for my Advanced Ticket.

    If they did that though, it might discourage folks from putting forth
    the effort to upgrading. Admittedly, I had planned to be a Technician
    Class ham originally. But, when there was a shortage of Volunteer
    Examiners at a local hamfest several years ago, I decided to go ahead
    and upgrade, to become a Volunteer Examiner.

    As I noted in an earlier message, I am exercising the Extra Class
    privileges ONLY when I conduct, or help with, a license exam session. Otherwise, I'm EXCLUSIVELY in the Technician Class bands, as I enjoy
    them. I know one local ham, who is a General Class licensee...but he has absolutely no interest in HF. He works with emergency communications and
    runs local nets...where most of the checkins are Technician Class hams.

    Those who fit in that last catagory can't prevent the reason that keeps EV>them from Renewing their License.

    I am amazed at the number of hams who have no clue as to when their
    license expires. Years ago, when there was still 3 CW exams, and 5
    classes of licenses...one ham realized 2 days after his license had
    lapsed (over 2 years since expiration). He called the VEC, trying to get
    it reinstated, but was told..."Sorry...you have to take all the exams
    again". From what I understand, passing the 20 wpm CW exam was good
    enough to prove you could copy 5 and 13 wpm CW.

    You don't have to listen to CW anymore, use the computer on the CW Bands. EV>Make QSOs with a perfect fist.

    My hands shake too much with the nervous system damage to use a keyer.
    I would do better typing on the keyboard (like with CQ100), and let the
    program take care of converting it, both ways.

    I own a Bug but a J-38 Key fits my hand too, never tried computer CW myself EV>but seen other Hams use their PC for more than keeping the Log.

    I usually have the log until the new is done, except for QCWA D-Star
    Net. That one is kept for only the current month...then once the net
    manager has it, I zap it.

    ... Johnson & Johnson Tagline: ###############

    That's just a Band-Aid for a tagline that was cut and pasted into the QWK reader. <G>

    It appears that OLX couldn't show that ASCII Graphic Characters my First Aid EV>Tagline used.

    It's doing it for me. You hold the ALT-key while entering the number.

    The BandAid graphic is 5 $DB's (219), 5 $B0's (176) and 5 $DB's (219).

    Is this what you're looking for??

    ۰

    Could You see the ASCII Graphic in OLX, but was not able to get it into EV>Your Reply to Me?
    Or is 15 Pound Signs all that You saw in my Tagline and see in this message?

    All I saw was 15 pound signs (that was rather heavy (hi hi)).

    Daryl

    ===
    OLX 1.53 Access denied---nah nah nah nah naaah nah!
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Win32
    * Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:19/33 to ED VANCE on Wed Mar 7 13:02:00 2018
    Howdy! Daryl,

    Hi, Ed...

    I can't remember but back in 1959 when I took and passed the Technician EV>Exam to keep my Call Sign active, I'm thinking I took a Morse Code Test EV>before I took the written portion of the Exam.

    Correct. When the FCC was administering the exams, you HAD to PASS the
    CW test FIRST -- or you were dismissed from the session, WITHOUT being
    allowed to do the written exam.

    I can't remember ever taking a test for a Amateur Radio Operators License EV>without writing some code down first.

    In the U.S. and its territories, the 13 and 20 wpm CW exams...plus the issuing of new Novice and Advanced Class licenses, were STOPPED on April
    15, 2000. Holders of the Novice and Advanced Class licenses could renew
    them at the appropriate time. The 5 wpm CW exam (the last one), was
    eliminated on Feb. 23, 2007. Now, people are learning CW because they
    *WANT* to...and NOT because they *HAVE* to.

    But I may be wrong, I have - many many many times B4 been wrong.
    And 60+/- years is a long period so I could be mistaken about the CW test.

    Or like a T-shirt I saw once..."I may not always be right...but, I'm
    never wrong" (hi hi).

    For someone with a Expired Amateur Extra ticket that Element 2 sounds EV>STUPID (to Me).

    Well, there was concern that with a lapsed license, having to get back
    on without taking a test, was "stupid". The FCC determined that passing
    the Technician exam was sufficient enough that they had the basic
    knowledge of items needed. They now require answering "the basic
    character qualification question" on the NCVEC Form 605...answering Yes
    or No, on whether they have been convicted of a felony, in state or
    federal court. A YES answer is NOT an automatic disqualification...it
    depends on the circumstances. Yet, the examinee has to send to the FCC,
    all required documentation, etc. to the FCC within 14 days of the exam
    session, or the license grant is dismissed...as if they had never taken
    an exam.

    I Passed the CW portion, Flunked the Written portion, walked out with a EV>Temporary Advance Class License until the F.C.C. sent the License to me EV>in the Mail.

    When I first got my license in 1991, there was no FCC ULS. I took the
    test on Field Day Weekend, and it was the second week of August before
    my ticket and callsign arrived in the mail. Now, with the FCC ULS, you
    can get it in as little as 1 to 2 weeks...although I saw one fast turnaround...the ham passed Elements 2, 3, and 4 (Technician, General,
    and Amateur Extra) in one session. The exam session was on a
    Saturday...his callsign was in the database the following Wednesday!!

    There were lots of things in the Amateur Extra exam I took that I had
    no idea about.

    I learned how to tell where the voltage was leading or lagging the
    current, and that's all I remember.

    I never took another Ham Exam.

    Every year when I do my rent recertification, they ask me if I'm a
    student. I reply "the only exams I do now are giving ham radio license exams...and undergoing medical exams and procedures". Along that line,
    I'm getting a "two-fer"...an EGD (upper GI) and a colonoscopy (lower GI)
    on Friday the 13th of April. It'll be "lucky" for me, in that:

    1) I'm long overdue for both -- it has been over 3 years.

    2) Since it's part of the "wellness check", Medicare is picking up 100%
    of the colonoscopy cost.

    3) Since I'm having the EGD done at the same time, I'm getting it for
    50% off...and Medicate will pay 80% of that. Plus, I only have to pay
    one anesthesia fee.

    I'll miss the nets on April 12 for the bowel prep, and April 13 (I
    likely will be asleep, spending that night at my Mom's place). Then,
    I'll take the weekend off to recover. If "everything comes out all
    right" (pardon the pun), I won't have to do them again for 3 to 5 years.

    To Me That Organization is NOT of, for, by the amateurs like I think EV>their motto used to say a long long long time ago.

    As noted, I suspect that their new proposal is twofold -- to get new
    members, and for gear manufacturers to get more customers. So much for pecuniary interest. :P

    And YES I believe I can still pass the CW and Written Test for MY License EV>if needed to.

    There's no way I could now...too many medical issues have developed
    since I took the exams.

    Daryl, WX1DER

    ===
    OLX 1.53 According to the Weather Channel, Hell just froze over.
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Win32
    * Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:19/33 to JEFF SMITH on Wed Mar 7 13:15:00 2018
    Jeff,

    I didn't think the General test was that much harder at all. The only part t JS>was a tad harder was memorizing the band plans and knowing what frequencies JS>went where, but that clicked eventually. Everything else is basic electronic JS>theory. The Technician license seemed to focus on rules and regulations, whi JS>the General is more technology-based.

    When I took the General exam in 2007, it was right after the Question
    Pool had changed. I thought it was a piece of cake, myself.

    Now, the Amateur Extra was a whole different story. :P

    Daryl, WX1DER
    ===
    OLX 1.53 All marriage is same sex: the same sex over & over again.
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Win32
    * Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)
  • From Ed Vance@1:2320/105 to Jeff Smith on Wed Mar 7 11:01:00 2018
    03-06-18 20:19 Jeff Smith wrote to Ed Vance about ARRL Requests Expanded HF Howdy! Jeff,

    @MSGID: <5A9F63DA.1780.amtradio@capitolcityonline.net>
    Hello Ed,

    You would know for sure.
    Is the General and Technician Written Test the same?

    I didn't think the General test was that much harder at all. The only
    part that was a tad harder was memorizing the band plans and knowing
    what frequencies went where, but that clicked eventually. Everything
    else is basic electronic theory. The Technician license seemed to focus
    on rules and regulations, while the General is more technology-based.

    The General writen test back in 1959 had R&R, Electronics and Technology
    in the 50 Multiple Choice Questions.

    I'm thinking back then it took 74 per cent correct answers to pass the
    written test.

    I used the scratch paper provided with the test to mark the Question Number
    on if I wasn't really sure of the answer I marked.

    Or, if the question was a really hard one I would mark its number down so
    I could go back to it after I had marked my answer for all of the other
    test questions.

    I sure didn't want the F.C.C. Examiner to see an unmarked question, which
    He would put a Red Pencil Mark on.

    Before going to the Exam I had figured out that I could miss 13 of the 50 Questions and still get my License upgraded to General.
    So if I saw less than 13 numbers on my scratch paper I was sure that
    I had passed the written portion.

    But I would look again at the questions that I marked on my scratch paper
    to see if maybe I needed to make a different choice than the one I had
    marked on the test paper.

    In 1959 the only Frequency Restrictions was for the Novice and Technician.

    A General, Conditional, Advanced and Amateur Extra could operate A1 CW on
    all of the Band(s) and A3 or A3a Voice on the upper portions of the Band(s). Somewhere in the 10 Meter Band and above F3 Voice could be used (iirc).

    I'll have to go look at my old A.R.R.L. License Manual to see how close I
    was to what I wrote in my last paragraph. Duh!

    73 de Ed W9ODR . .


    ... I can't remember how long I've had amnesia.
    --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
    * Origin: CCO BBS - capitolcityonline.net:26 (1:2320/105)
  • From Jeff Smith@1:282/1031 to Daryl Stout on Wed Mar 7 20:00:30 2018
    Hello Daryl,

    I The Technician license seemed to focus on rules and regulations, whi
    the General is more technology-based.

    When I took the General exam in 2007, it was right after the Question
    Pool had changed. I thought it was a piece of cake, myself.
    Now, the Amateur Extra was a whole different story. :P

    When I took my General test I also took the Extra test during the same test session. I passed the General and ALMOST passed the Extra. I should retake the Extra test again one of these days.

    As I recall in addition to some of the more obscure regulations, the Extra test
    covers some rather specialized operating practices, more advanced electronics theory and radio equipment design.


    Jeff


    --- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-3
    * Origin: The Ouija Board (1:282/1031)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:19/33 to JEFF SMITH on Thu Mar 8 09:43:00 2018
    Hello Daryl,

    Hi, Jeff...

    When I took my General test I also took the Extra test during the same test JS>session. I passed the General and ALMOST passed the Extra. I should retake t JS>Extra test again one of these days.

    In the U.S. and its territories, there's only 500 kilohertz of
    spectrum that the General class licensees can't get...and 250 kilohertz
    of spectrum that the Advanced Class licensees can't get (the FCC stopped issuing Novice and Advanced Class Licenses on April 15, 2000 -- but
    holders of these can renew their licenses at the appropriate time).

    There are only 4 reasons to upgrade to Amateur Extra:

    1) Full amateur radio privileges...although you still have to stay 3
    kilohertz from the band edge, to keep from going "out of band".

    2) Access to the shorter 2x1 or 1x2 callsigns -- IF you're LUCKY enough
    to get one.

    3) As a Volunteer Examiner (VE), you can give and grade ALL the tests (Technician, General, and Amateur Extra). A General Class VE can only
    give and grade the Technician...the Advanced Class VE can give the
    Technician and General, but NOT the Amateur Extra.

    4) Snob appeal (hi hi).

    Daryl, WX1DER

    ===
    OLX 1.53 An Electrician gets into people's shorts!
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Win32
    * Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)
  • From Ed Vance@1:2320/105 to Daryl Stout on Sat Mar 10 01:09:00 2018
    03-07-18 12:49 Daryl Stout wrote to ED VANCE about ARRL Requests Expanded HF Howdy! Daryl,

    @MSGID: <5AA05D7C.1784.amtradio@capitolcityonline.net>
    Howdy! Daryl,

    Hi, Ed...

    Licensed Hams in those three Classes can still Renew their License when the
    time comes.
    I just did that in August 2017 for my Advanced Ticket.

    If they did that though, it might discourage folks from putting forth the effort to upgrading. Admittedly, I had planned to be a Technician Class ham originally. But, when there was a shortage of Volunteer Examiners at a local hamfest several years ago, I decided to go ahead
    and upgrade, to become a Volunteer Examiner.

    I haven't had the desire try for the Amateur Extra ticket.

    I've not operated my station for some time but I wanted to renew the
    license so I could get on the air if I wanted to.

    As I noted in an earlier message, I am exercising the Extra Class privileges ONLY when I conduct, or help with, a license exam session. Otherwise, I'm EXCLUSIVELY in the Technician Class bands, as I enjoy
    them. I know one local ham, who is a General Class licensee...but he
    has absolutely no interest in HF. He works with emergency
    communications and runs local nets...where most of the checkins are Technician Class hams.

    I like HF and VHF.
    I never operated on 20M until another Ham, going to Navy Radioman School,
    told me that I could work stations a great distance away even at Noon
    time (we were standing in the Chow Line when he told me this).
    So the next day I didn't go to the Chow Hall for lunch, I checked out
    the key for the Ham Shack and tuned the rig to 20M CW, sent a CQ and was answered by someone in Greenland.

    Those who fit in that last catagory can't prevent the reason that keeps
    them from Renewing their License.

    I am amazed at the number of hams who have no clue as to when their license expires. Years ago, when there was still 3 CW exams, and 5
    classes of licenses...one ham realized 2 days after his license had
    lapsed (over 2 years since expiration). He called the VEC, trying to
    get it reinstated, but was told..."Sorry...you have to take all the
    exams again". From what I understand, passing the 20 wpm CW exam was
    good enough to prove you could copy 5 and 13 wpm CW.

    You don't have to listen to CW anymore, use the computer on the CW Bands.
    Make QSOs with a perfect fist.

    My hands shake too much with the nervous system damage to use a
    keyer. I would do better typing on the keyboard (like with CQ100), and
    let the program take care of converting it, both ways.

    What I meant was to use a Program that lets You type on the computer and
    your rig sends CW for You.
    And connect the Rcvr Audio to the computer and let it read the CW for You.

    Since You have the Amateur Extra License You could have CW QSO's on any
    part of any CW Band, and chat with Operators holding any Class of Ham
    Radio Operator License anywhere in the World.

    I own a Bug but a J-38 Key fits my hand too, never tried computer CW myself
    but seen other Hams use their PC for more than keeping the Log.

    I usually have the log until the new is done, except for QCWA D-Star Net. That one is kept for only the current month...then once the net manager has it, I zap it.

    I've always kept a written Log of my air time.
    I could take a notebook pc to the shack for Logging but thinking about that
    it makes me think that it would be harder to update the Log when I used CW because one of my hands would already be busy sending so it would be hard
    (for me) to type into the Log if I had it on the computer.

    I could Log on the computer easier if I was on Voice, but CW would be a challenge.

    I just remembered about my using a typewriter to copy CW since I learned
    how to do that when I was in Navy Radioman School, so I maybe could enter
    Log data during the QSO, while typing out what I hear on the speaker.

    ... Johnson & Johnson Tagline: ###############

    That's just a Band-Aid for a tagline that was cut and pasted into
    he
    QWK reader. <G>

    It appears that OLX couldn't show that ASCII Graphic Characters my First
    id
    Tagline used.

    It's doing it for me. You hold the ALT-key while entering the number.

    The BandAid graphic is 5 $DB's (219), 5 $B0's (176) and 5 $DB's (219).

    Is this what you're looking for??

    ...............

    It came through as 15 Period Characters while reading it using MultiMail.
    I will Log On to the BBS's Web Portal and see what Your message looks like after writing this line, before uploading the QWK packet to the BBS.

    .-... <----- Wait (in CW)

    When I looked at Your message on the Web Portal I saw the ASCII image of
    the Band-Aid under where You wrote: "Is this what you're looking for??"

    I thought to look to see what Your message looked like in MultiMail v.50
    for Windows.
    It didn't look any different using MMWIN50 that it does in MMDOS49,
    but at least I tried to see if it looked any better in Multimail WIN.

    Hey!, I will take a look at the message using SLMR .-...

    SLMR didn't change the looks of Your message either, at least I tried.
    I AM VERY TRYING, aren't I? ? ??? ??? ? ?

    Could You see the ASCII Graphic in OLX, but was not able to get it into
    Your Reply to Me?
    Or is 15 Pound Signs all that You saw in my Tagline and see in this
    essage?

    All I saw was 15 pound signs (that was rather heavy (hi hi)).
    Would it help You if I grunted for You while You lifted the 15 Pound Signs
    ? ? ??? ??? ? ?

    73 de Ed W9ODR . .

    ... It is easier to do a job right than to explain why you didn't.
    --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
    * Origin: CCO BBS - capitolcityonline.net:26 (1:2320/105)
  • From Ed Vance@1:2320/105 to Daryl Stout on Sat Mar 10 11:34:00 2018
    03-07-18 13:02 Daryl Stout wrote to ED VANCE about ARRL Requests Expanded HF Howdy! Daryl,

    @MSGID: <5AA05D7C.1785.amtradio@capitolcityonline.net>
    Howdy! Daryl,

    Hi, Ed...

    I can't remember but back in 1959 when I took and passed the Technician
    Exam to keep my Call Sign active, I'm thinking I took a Morse Code Test
    before I took the written portion of the Exam.

    Correct. When the FCC was administering the exams, you HAD to PASS
    the CW test FIRST -- or you were dismissed from the session, WITHOUT
    being allowed to do the written exam.

    Hey!, Thanks!!!!, I like being correct once in a while, instead of being corrected all the time.

    Sorry about the Typo on Your Name in another Reply.
    At least now You know I don't use a Script that makes the second line in
    a Reply, only the first line is made by settings I have in MultiMail.

    I can't remember ever taking a test for a Amateur Radio Operators License
    without writing some code down first.

    In the U.S. and its territories, the 13 and 20 wpm CW exams...plus
    the issuing of new Novice and Advanced Class licenses, were STOPPED on April 15, 2000. Holders of the Novice and Advanced Class licenses could renew them at the appropriate time. The 5 wpm CW exam (the last one),
    was eliminated on Feb. 23, 2007. Now, people are learning CW because
    they *WANT* to...and NOT because they *HAVE* to.

    Last year I tried a Search on DuckDuckGo.com to learn about what You said
    about Vibroplex getting lots of orders for Bugs, but couldn't find a link
    to anything like that.

    Would You have a URL about people recently learning CW because they *WANT*
    to? ? ??? ??? ? ?
    ^
    |
    --- in case You were wondering, I'm using Question Marks instead of Periods and Dashes for the Morse Code symbol for a Question Mark.

    But I may be wrong, I have - many many many times B4 been wrong.
    And 60+/- years is a long period so I could be mistaken about the CW test.

    Or like a T-shirt I saw once..."I may not always be right...but, I'm never wrong" (hi hi).

    That saying doesn't apply to me.

    For someone with a Expired Amateur Extra ticket that Element 2 sounds
    STUPID (to Me).

    Well, there was concern that with a lapsed license, having to get
    back on without taking a test, was "stupid". The FCC determined that passing the Technician exam was sufficient enough that they had the
    basic knowledge of items needed. They now require answering "the basic

    My reason for thinking it was stupid is that the VEC Organization is asking
    a Ham who's License expired to complete a exam for a Class of License LOWER than the one the Ham had taken for the HIGHER Class License.

    character qualification question" on the NCVEC Form 605...answering Yes
    or No, on whether they have been convicted of a felony, in state or federal court. A YES answer is NOT an automatic disqualification...it depends on the circumstances. Yet, the examinee has to send to the FCC, all required documentation, etc. to the FCC within 14 days of the exam session, or the license grant is dismissed...as if they had never taken
    an exam.

    I'm thinking on the FCC Form 610 I sent to them asking for the Novice Exam papers back in the Summer of 1958 asked that question about being convicted
    of a felony.

    I went to the QTH of a General Class Ham I met in High School to take the
    CW Test and passed it.
    He wasn't old enough to witness my as I took the Written part so I asked
    the Mother of another friend if She would sign on the 610 that She witnessed
    me taking the Written Test.
    She said O.K. and watched as I took the Novice Written Test.

    Some weeks later I got a letter from the F.C.C. with the KN4ZIQ License in
    it.

    I Passed the CW portion, Flunked the Written portion, walked out with a
    Temporary Advance Class License until the F.C.C. sent the License to me
    in the Mail.

    When I first got my license in 1991, there was no FCC ULS. I took the test on Field Day Weekend, and it was the second week of August before
    my ticket and callsign arrived in the mail. Now, with the FCC ULS, you
    can get it in as little as 1 to 2 weeks...although I saw one fast turnaround...the ham passed Elements 2, 3, and 4 (Technician, General,
    and Amateur Extra) in one session. The exam session was on a Saturday...his callsign was in the database the following Wednesday!!

    Computers do Paper Shuffeling faster that a Clerk can do it at the F.C.C. Office, don't they? ? ??? ??? ? ?

    There were lots of things in the Amateur Extra exam I took that I had
    no idea about.

    I learned how to tell where the voltage was leading or lagging the current, and that's all I remember.

    That is one I didn't know, I would guess the Voltage Leads the Current, otherwise the Current wouldn't have anything to cause it to flow. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!

    I never took another Ham Exam.

    Every year when I do my rent recertification, they ask me if I'm a student. I reply "the only exams I do now are giving ham radio license exams...and undergoing medical exams and procedures". Along that line,
    I'm getting a "two-fer"...an EGD (upper GI) and a colonoscopy (lower
    GI) on Friday the 13th of April. It'll be "lucky" for me, in that:

    1) I'm long overdue for both -- it has been over 3 years.
    -snip-
    3 years is about the same time span as the Doctor that does mine has Me
    come to see Him.


    73 de Ed W9ODR . .

    ... "No word was ever as effective as a rightly timed pause." -- Mark Twain
    --- MultiMail/MS-DOS v0.49
    * Origin: CCO BBS - capitolcityonline.net:26 (1:2320/105)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:19/33 to ED VANCE on Sun Mar 11 13:03:00 2018
    Howdy! Daryl,

    Hi, Ed...

    I haven't had the desire try for the Amateur Extra ticket.

    That's your choice...there's only 250 kHz of spectrum you can't use.

    I've not operated my station for some time but I wanted to renew the EV>license so I could get on the air if I wanted to.

    I'm on the air nearly every night of the week...unless thunderstorms
    are in the area...as was the case last night. Intense lighting here, and several reports of very large hail across the region.

    What I meant was to use a Program that lets You type on the computer and EV>your rig sends CW for You.
    And connect the Rcvr Audio to the computer and let it read the CW for You.

    Well, with antenna prohibitions and quarterly apartment inspections
    (if not more often), having RF gear is out of the question.

    Since You have the Amateur Extra License You could have CW QSO's on any EV>part of any CW Band, and chat with Operators holding any Class of Ham EV>Radio Operator License anywhere in the World.

    I'd have to use software though...I don't have the ear to decode it.
    I'm usually a fairly good touch typist...becoming that way from running
    a BBS for nearly 30 years now.

    I thought to look to see what Your message looked like in MultiMail v.50 EV>for Windows.
    It didn't look any different using MMWIN50 that it does in MMDOS49,
    but at least I tried to see if it looked any better in Multimail WIN.

    It showed up in the message base directly. I was able to enter it in
    OLX, as I use the internal message editor. Notepad (used with MultiMail)
    won't let you enter those characters.

    Would it help You if I grunted for You while You lifted the 15 Pound Signs EV>? ? ??? ??? ? ?

    Don't worry about it...there are more important things in life. In
    fact, I feel a nap coming on after I do the QWK Mail, before I do my 2
    Sunday D-Star Nets.

    Daryl

    ===
    OLX 1.53 Too old to cut the mustard; but can still stir the mayo.
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Win32
    * Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:19/33 to ED VANCE on Sun Mar 11 13:09:00 2018
    Howdy! Daryl,

    Hi, Ed...

    Hey!, Thanks!!!!, I like being correct once in a while, instead of being EV>corrected all the time.

    I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong (hi hi).

    Sorry about the Typo on Your Name in another Reply.
    At least now You know I don't use a Script that makes the second line in EV>a Reply, only the first line is made by settings I have in MultiMail.

    You have fat finger syndrome, as I do. But, without fat fingers, how
    do you pick up the food and the silverware?? (hi hi).

    Last year I tried a Search on DuckDuckGo.com to learn about what You said EV>about Vibroplex getting lots of orders for Bugs, but couldn't find a link EV>to anything like that.

    Would You have a URL about people recently learning CW because they *WANT* EV>to? ? ??? ??? ? ?

    That's what I understood. Bear in mind that the CW requirement ended
    over 11 years ago now.

    That saying doesn't apply to me.

    I will admit when I'm wrong...I like to be sarcastic every now and
    then, when I'm in one of my nether moods.

    My reason for thinking it was stupid is that the VEC Organization is asking EV>a Ham who's License expired to complete a exam for a Class of License LOWER EV>than the one the Ham had taken for the HIGHER Class License.

    Well, the FCC made the decision of revising the rules for the lapsed licenses...and I think there was a period of comments and reply comments
    (I think that's an NPRM)...then they issued the decision July 21, 2014.

    I'm thinking on the FCC Form 610 I sent to them asking for the Novice Exam EV>papers back in the Summer of 1958 asked that question about being convicted EV>of a felony.

    I wasn't even born yet. :P

    Computers do Paper Shuffeling faster that a Clerk can do it at the F.C.C. EV>Office, don't they? ? ??? ??? ? ?

    From what I understand, at ARRL/VEC, it takes less than a minute to
    key in data from each NCVEC Form 605 and the paperwork. They're faster
    typists than I am.

    3 years is about the same time span as the Doctor that does mine has Me EV>come to see Him.

    I'll miss a couple of nets before and during the procedure, but I
    shouldn't be QRT for too long.

    Daryl

    ===
    OLX 1.53 Tried keeping a stiff upper lip, but my face muscles hurt
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Win32
    * Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)
  • From Orbitman@1:123/400 to Daryl Stout on Mon Mar 12 16:32:22 2018
    Hello Daryl!

    Do you ever check into the Alabama Traffic Net Mike (ATNM) on 3.965?

    I try to get in when I can, normally two to three times a week.

    Your callsign looks really familiar to me. I'm going to go thru my log to see if I've talked with you.

    de KG4CNA

    Thanks!
    Orbitman (Allen)
    telnet://orbitbbs.ddns.net:7210
    Opp, Alabama, USA

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A38 2018/01/01 (Linux/32)
    * Origin: Orbit BBS--telnet:orbitbbs.ddns.net:7210 (AL) (1:123/400)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:19/33 to ORBITMAN on Tue Mar 13 23:02:00 2018
    Hello Daryl!

    Hi, Allen...

    Do you ever check into the Alabama Traffic Net Mike (ATNM) on 3.965?

    I try to get in when I can, normally two to three times a week.

    Your callsign looks really familiar to me. I'm going to go thru my log to see O>if I've talked with you.

    You might have heard me on either a D-Star, D-Rats, or Echolink Net. I
    don't have RF gear (HF or otherwise) due to antenna prohibitions, and
    apartment inspections. They won't allow coaxial cable across the floor (tripping hazard), and the RFI could adversely affect medical devices
    that some of the residents have (pacemakers, defibrillators, power
    wheelchairs, oxygen tanks, etc.).

    Daryl, WX1DER

    ===
    OLX 1.53 Bad Sign: Fortune Cookie warns of salmonella poisoning.
    --- SBBSecho 3.03-Win32
    * Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)
  • From Rob Swindell@1:103/705 to Ed Vance on Tue Jun 5 11:45:32 2018
    Re: ARRL Requests Expanded HF
    By: Ed Vance to Daryl Stout on Sun Mar 04 2018 05:07 pm

    Why should Technicians try to upgrade to the General Class?

    If you want to communicate voice (phone/SSB) over HF, a General Class license is (almost) a necessity. Technicians can only transmit SSB/phone on a little slice of the 10M (28MHz) band, that's it. See http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Band%20Chart%208_5%20X%2 011%20Color.pdf for details.

    If you're only using UHF/VHF (or CW over HF), a technician's license may be all you want/need.

    Since the CW Element for the Amateur Radio Exam has been discontinued
    isn't the Written Test Element the SAME for the Technician and General
    Class Licenses as it was in 1959 when I took the the Tech and General written exams?

    No, the General Class test has more difficult questions when compared with the Technician's test. Here's a comparison: https://www.hamradiolicenseexam.com/which-exam.htm


    digital man

    This Is Spinal Tap quote #4:
    David St. Hubbins: He died in a bizarre gardening accident...
    Norco, CA WX: 71.2F, 68.0% humidity, 8 mph E wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Linux
    * Origin: Vertrauen - [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net (1:103/705)
  • From Daryl Stout@1:19/33 to ROB SWINDELL on Wed Jun 6 18:55:00 2018
    Rob,

    No, the General Class test has more difficult questions when compared with t RS>Technician's test. Here's a comparison: RS>https://www.hamradiolicenseexam.com/which-exam.htm

    Two comments on that.

    First, when I took the General Class written exam, 5 months after the
    FCC dropped the Morse Code requirement, I thought it was a piece of
    cake...but I had been studying 2 hours a day for 2 weeks...and with HamTestOnline (the URL you noted).

    Second, after going from Technician to General in 14 days, it only
    took 13 days (studying 2 hours a day) to go from General to Amateur
    Extra. I barely passed the Extra at the license exam session...but "a
    win by 1 is as good as a win by 10".

    Doing both courses with HamTestOnline was the best money I ever spent
    in amateur radio. Both John Cunningham, W1AI...and his wife, Christina,
    KT1NA (who went from zero to Extra in one sitting), "know me" -- I guess
    I have a reputation. <G>

    Plus, they offer the Amateur Extra course, a $35 value, FREE...if
    you're a currently accredited Volunteer Examiner (with ARRL/VEC, W5YI
    VEC, Laurel VEC, etc.), and have served at least 3 times in the last 12
    months.

    Had it not been for deciding to becomine a Volunteer Examiner in
    central Arkansas (several years ago, they were literally begging and
    pleading for VE's at a local hamfest), I likely would've still been a Technician Class licensee. In short, I upgraded not so much to operate
    on HF...but to be a VE to help people get licensed, and upgraded. In
    nearly 11 years of being a VE, I've done nearly 200 license exam
    sessions.

    Daryl, WX1DER
    ===
    OLX 1.53 When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.
    --- SBBSecho 3.04-Win32
    * Origin: FIDONet: The Thunderbolt BBS - wx1der.dyndns.org (1:19/33)