• Plonkers

    From Mr Flibble@flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 01:46:04 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble
    --
    meet ever shorter deadlines, known as "beat the clock"
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mike Terry@news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 02:12:02 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to "evolve" his duffer-speak
    in response to objections. In turn I'd expect that to drastically cut down PO's need to start new
    threads - most of those are just evolutions of his duffer-speak, but in fact not saying anything
    new. He will post a couple of posts explaining why he is a genius, and the latest theorem he has
    refuted, but in the absence of feedback that will be the end of it!


    Mike.

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  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 21:41:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink
    to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?
    In turn I'd expect
    that to drastically cut down PO's need to start new threads - most of
    those are just evolutions of his duffer-speak, but in fact not saying anything new.  He will post a couple of posts explaining why he is a genius, and the latest theorem he has refuted, but in the absence of feedback that will be the end of it!


    Mike.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
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  • From Mike Terry@news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 04:08:06 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to "evolve" his duffer-speak
    in response to objections.

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
      int Halt_Status = H(D);
      if (Halt_Status)
        HERE: goto HERE;
      return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write. Practically every sentence you write contains ambiguous
    or incoherent terminology. I do not suggest that you do that deliberately, or that you can see it
    when it is pointed out to you. It is a natural effect of not being able to understand the basic
    terminology and concepts of the field.

    Mike.

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  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 23:14:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will finally >>>> stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will
    shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him
    to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.  Practically every sentence
    you write contains ambiguous or incoherent terminology.  I do not
    suggest that you do that deliberately, or that you can see it when it is pointed out to you.  It is a natural effect of not being able to
    understand the basic terminology and concepts of the field.

    Mike.


    So you cannot begin to understand that
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement ???
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
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  • From dbush@dbush.mobile@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 00:32:18 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 12:14 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will
    finally
    stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will
    shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for
    him to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest
    so what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.  Practically every sentence
    you write contains ambiguous or incoherent terminology.  I do not
    suggest that you do that deliberately, or that you can see it when it
    is pointed out to you.  It is a natural effect of not being able to
    understand the basic terminology and concepts of the field.

    Mike.


    So you cannot begin to understand that
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement ???


    This statement is unclear. "D" and "H" could refer to:
    * an algorithm: i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions such
    that where these instructions physically reside is irrelevant
    * a C function: has a specific name that can contain any arbitrary set
    of instructions
    * a finite string: some sequence of bytes that is stipulated to be a
    complete description of an algorithm and can therefore be used to
    exactly replicate the given algorithm and therefore contains all
    semantic properties of the described machine.

    Therefore, outside of actual source code, all references to D, DD, DDD,
    H, HHH, etc. must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

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  • From Mr Flibble@flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 04:39:02 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Sat, 01 Nov 2025 23:14:40 -0500, olcott wrote:

    On 11/1/2025 11:08 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:12 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 01:46, Mr Flibble wrote:
    Once Olcott has plonked everyone I guess the shitshow here will
    finally stop?

    /Flibble


    PO will still post new threads, but the average thread size will
    shrink to about 6 posts.

    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him
    to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    There is no duffer speak to this.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its own simulated "return"
    statement.

    I don't think that you have become dishonest so what is up with the
    "duffer speak" reference to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    It is my honest opinion of what you write.  Practically every sentence
    you write contains ambiguous or incoherent terminology.  I do not
    suggest that you do that deliberately, or that you can see it when it
    is pointed out to you.  It is a natural effect of not being able to
    understand the basic terminology and concepts of the field.

    Mike.


    So you cannot begin to understand that D simulated by H cannot possibly
    reach its own simulated "return" statement ???

    If H reports non-halting then D halts ergo H is wrong.

    /Flibble
    --
    meet ever shorter deadlines, known as "beat the clock"
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tristan Wibberley@tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 07:10:53 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 02/11/2025 02:12, Mike Terry wrote:
    PO will only see his own posts, so there will be no incentive for him to "evolve" his duffer-speak in response to objections.

    I dunno, someone recently said that D is a machine. That's true in
    neither the SWE world, DEV world, IT world, CS world, nor computation
    theory world.

    To rid the so-called duffer-speak, the responders will need to be much
    more careful of the assertions they're making.

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

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  • From Tristan Wibberley@tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 07:15:38 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... what is
    up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.

    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and reference in
    your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the group
    can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which of the
    many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do /not/
    refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tristan Wibberley@tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 07:34:27 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 02/11/2025 04:32, dbush wrote:
    ...outside of actual source code, all references to D, DD, DDD,
    H, HHH, etc. must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    That's a good idea in approximate principle! I think Olcott has used
    those names for each of the distinct concepts and it might have been
    difficult.

    Regarding "the C function" (we should be careful here, there is a
    concept called "C-obs" in combinatory logic in which "C" does not refer
    to "The C programming language") I understand there is a convention in
    logic philosophy already, which is to use double-quotes around the name
    of a thing when discussing the name itself to avoid ambiguities in

    all references to D, DD, DDD,
    H, HHH, etc.

    itself, in which each of "D", "DD", "DDD" may refer to several things
    which I can see from the context. "references to D" for example should
    be, and I use braces instead of double-quotes to avoid ambiguity, {uses
    of the name "D"}. I am careful here not to say {uses of "D"} even though
    in the technical language of logic philosophy it's clear because among
    humans it might be read as "uses of D" which has a different meaning.


    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 07:16:27 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... what is
    up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.


    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and reference in
    your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the group
    can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which of the
    many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do /not/
    refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@wyniijj5@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 21:46:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Sun, 2025-11-02 at 07:16 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... what is
    up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.
    Yes, this is the proof that olcott contradicted POO H.
    On the other hand, this is an evidence that olcott deliberately lies:
    he knows exactly what undecidable is and hide it in 'proof'.
    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and reference in your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the group
    can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which of the
    many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do /not/
    refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@dbush.mobile@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 08:48:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 8:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... what is
    up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
      int Halt_Status = H(D);
      if (Halt_Status)
        HERE: goto HERE;
      return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*

    False. The below statement is unclear. "D" and "H" could refer to:
    * an algorithm: i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions such
    that where these instructions physically reside is irrelevant
    * a C function: has a specific name that can contain any arbitrary set
    of instructions
    * a finite string: some sequence of bytes that is stipulated to be a
    complete description of an algorithm and can therefore be used to
    exactly replicate the given algorithm and therefore contains all
    semantic properties of the described machine.

    Therefore, outside of actual source code, all references to D, DD, DDD,
    H, HHH, etc. must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.


    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and reference in
    your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the group
    can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which of the
    many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do /not/
    refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.




    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 07:54:59 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 7:46 AM, wij wrote:
    On Sun, 2025-11-02 at 07:16 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... what is
    up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Yes, this is the proof that olcott contradicted POO H.


    You can even get the insult correctly.

    On the other hand, this is an evidence that olcott deliberately lies:
    he knows exactly what undecidable is and hide it in 'proof'.


    H does report on the semantic property that its
    finite input string specifies.
    (a) "finite input string" term of the art from computer science
    (b) "semantic property" term of the art from Rice's Theorem.

    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and reference in
    your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the group
    can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which of the
    many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do /not/
    refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may, >>> of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.



    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 07:57:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 7:48 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... what is
    up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    H does report on the semantic property that its
    finite input string specifies.
    (a) "finite input string" term of the art from computer science
    (b) "semantic property" term of the art from Rice's Theorem.


    False.  The below statement is unclear.  "D"

    D is provided and H is sufficiently defined.
    H simulates D is the entire definition of H at this point.

    and "H" could refer to:
    * an algorithm: i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions such
    that where these instructions physically reside is irrelevant
    * a C function: has a specific name that can contain any arbitrary set
    of instructions
    * a finite string: some sequence of bytes that is stipulated to be a complete description of an algorithm and can therefore be used to
    exactly replicate the given algorithm and therefore contains all
    semantic properties of the described machine.

    Therefore, outside of actual source code, all references to D, DD, DDD,
    H, HHH, etc. must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.


    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and reference in
    your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the group
    can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which of the
    many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do /not/
    refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may, >>> of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.




    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@dbush.mobile@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 09:00:52 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 8:57 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:48 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... what is >>>> up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    H does report on the semantic property that its
    finite input string specifies.
    (a) "finite input string" term of the art from computer science
    (b) "semantic property" term of the art from Rice's Theorem.


    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear. All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    False.  The below statement is unclear.  "D"

    D is provided and H is sufficiently defined.
    H simulates D is the entire definition of H at this point.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear. All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    and "H" could refer to:
    * an algorithm: i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions such
    that where these instructions physically reside is irrelevant
    * a C function: has a specific name that can contain any arbitrary set
    of instructions
    * a finite string: some sequence of bytes that is stipulated to be a
    complete description of an algorithm and can therefore be used to
    exactly replicate the given algorithm and therefore contains all
    semantic properties of the described machine.

    Therefore, outside of actual source code, all references to D, DD,
    DDD, H, HHH, etc. must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.


    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and reference in >>>> your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the group >>>> can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which of the
    many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do /not/
    refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you
    may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation >>>> of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train >>>> any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that >>>> will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.







    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 08:09:27 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 8:00 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:57 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:48 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... what is >>>>> up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    H does report on the semantic property that its
    finite input string specifies.
    (a) "finite input string" term of the art from computer science
    (b) "semantic property" term of the art from Rice's Theorem.


    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    I provided this C function

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    and I specified that at this point the entire
    definition of H is that H simulates D.

    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?


    False.  The below statement is unclear.  "D"

    D is provided and H is sufficiently defined.
    H simulates D is the entire definition of H at this point.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    and "H" could refer to:
    * an algorithm: i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions such
    that where these instructions physically reside is irrelevant
    * a C function: has a specific name that can contain any arbitrary
    set of instructions
    * a finite string: some sequence of bytes that is stipulated to be a
    complete description of an algorithm and can therefore be used to
    exactly replicate the given algorithm and therefore contains all
    semantic properties of the described machine.

    Therefore, outside of actual source code, all references to D, DD,
    DDD, H, HHH, etc. must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.


    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and
    reference in
    your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the group >>>>> can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which of the >>>>> many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do /not/ >>>>> refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you >>>>> may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation >>>>> of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train >>>>> any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI
    that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.







    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From wij@wyniijj5@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 22:12:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On Sun, 2025-11-02 at 07:54 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:46 AM, wij wrote:
    On Sun, 2025-11-02 at 07:16 -0600, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ... what is up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
        int Halt_Status = H(D);
        if (Halt_Status)
          HERE: goto HERE;
        return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*
    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    Yes, this is the proof that olcott contradicted POO H.


    You can even get the insult correctly.
    What? It is smear.
    I said you posted an evidence that contradicts what POOH claims.
    I already know you are very shameless to be impenetrable by any insult,
    why would I do that?
    On the other hand, this is an evidence that olcott deliberately lies:
    he knows exactly what undecidable is and hide it in 'proof'.


    H does report on the semantic property that its
    finite input string specifies.
    (a) "finite input string" term of the art from computer science
    (b) "semantic property" term of the art from Rice's Theorem.

    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and reference in your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the group can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which of the many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do /not/ refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.




    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@dbush.mobile@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 09:13:51 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 9:09 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:00 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:57 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:48 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ...
    what is
    up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    H does report on the semantic property that its
    finite input string specifies.
    (a) "finite input string" term of the art from computer science
    (b) "semantic property" term of the art from Rice's Theorem.


    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must
    be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    I provided this C function

    int D()
    {
      int Halt_Status = H(D);
      if (Halt_Status)
        HERE: goto HERE;
      return Halt_Status;
    }

    and I specified that at this point the entire
    definition of H is that H simulates D.

    And the meaning of this sentence differs depending on whether each
    instance of "D" and "H" refer to:
    * an algorithm
    * a C function
    * a finite string


    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?

    You didn't specify whether "D" referred to
    * an algorithm
    * a C function
    * a finite string

    Failure to prefix all instances of "H" and "D" outside of source code
    with exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    Will result in the given statement being rejected as unclear.



    False.  The below statement is unclear.  "D"

    D is provided and H is sufficiently defined.
    H simulates D is the entire definition of H at this point.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must
    be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    and "H" could refer to:
    * an algorithm: i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions such
    that where these instructions physically reside is irrelevant
    * a C function: has a specific name that can contain any arbitrary
    set of instructions
    * a finite string: some sequence of bytes that is stipulated to be a
    complete description of an algorithm and can therefore be used to
    exactly replicate the given algorithm and therefore contains all
    semantic properties of the described machine.

    Therefore, outside of actual source code, all references to D, DD,
    DDD, H, HHH, etc. must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.


    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and
    reference in
    your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the
    group
    can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which of the >>>>>> many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do /not/ >>>>>> refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that
    you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it >>>>>> verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to >>>>>> promote my greatness and general superiority without
    misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT
    train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI >>>>>> that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.










    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tristan Wibberley@tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 14:19:48 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 02/11/2025 13:57, olcott wrote:

    H simulates D is the entire definition of H at this point.

    I think it can be called "the entire constraint on H at this point",
    rather than "the entire definition of H at this point". To be a
    definition of H it would have to be the mathematicians "the existing
    unique solution to the constraint that H simulates D" (or conventional
    shorter forms) which it is not.

    I suspect among practitioners there is some ambiguity whether
    "definition" refers to "a statement of definitional equivalence" or to
    "the set of statements of definitional equivalence iff there's an
    ultimate definiens".

    Given the conventions of mathematics and of formal systems there is some thought needed (at least by me) to understand the ambiguities among the
    fields that use the word "definition" or even "the unique solution". A
    solution could be an equivalence class of objects, or it could be a
    statement of definitional equivalence, or it could be an statement of an equality relation - I've seen all sorts relying on context both explicit
    and presumed.

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 08:42:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 8:19 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 13:57, olcott wrote:

    H simulates D is the entire definition of H at this point.

    I think it can be called "the entire constraint on H at this point",
    rather than "the entire definition of H at this point". To be a
    definition of H it would have to be the mathematicians "the existing
    unique solution to the constraint that H simulates D" (or conventional shorter forms) which it is not.


    The letter "H" specifies another C function that
    simulates its input C function as it it was a
    C interpreter.

    I suspect among practitioners there is some ambiguity whether
    "definition" refers to "a statement of definitional equivalence" or to
    "the set of statements of definitional equivalence iff there's an
    ultimate definiens".

    By definition I mean the meaning of a word.


    Given the conventions of mathematics and of formal systems there is some thought needed (at least by me) to understand the ambiguities among the fields that use the word "definition" or even "the unique solution". A

    I always use he common meaning of a term.
    A decider is anyone or anything that decides
    it need not be all knowing.

    solution could be an equivalence class of objects, or it could be a
    statement of definitional equivalence, or it could be an statement of an equality relation - I've seen all sorts relying on context both explicit
    and presumed.

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
    verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
    promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
    superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 09:12:25 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/2/2025 8:13 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 9:09 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:00 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:57 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 7:48 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 8:16 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 1:15 AM, Tristan Wibberley wrote:
    On 02/11/2025 02:41, olcott wrote in reply to Mike Terry:> ...
    what is
    up with the "duffer speak" reference
    to my perfectly unambiguous statements?

    I think he might have a problem with your ambiguous ones.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    *THIS IS THE KEY MOST IMPORTANT UNAMBIGUOUS STATEMENT*


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.

    H does report on the semantic property that its
    finite input string specifies.
    (a) "finite input string" term of the art from computer science
    (b) "semantic property" term of the art from Rice's Theorem.


    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must
    be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    I provided this C function

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    and I specified that at this point the entire
    definition of H is that H simulates D.

    And the meaning of this sentence differs depending on whether each
    instance of "D" and "H" refer to:
    * an algorithm
    * a C function
    * a finite string


    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?
    Why the Hell did you say that D was not defined when D was provided?

    You didn't specify whether "D" referred to

    I provided the D in the body of the message you
    are just being dishonest.

    * an algorithm
    * a C function
    * a finite string

    Failure to prefix all instances of "H" and "D" outside of source code
    with exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string

    Will result in the given statement being rejected as unclear.



    False.  The below statement is unclear.  "D"

    D is provided and H is sufficiently defined.
    H simulates D is the entire definition of H at this point.

    Rejected out-of-hand as unclear.  All references to "D" and "H" must
    be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    and "H" could refer to:
    * an algorithm: i.e. a fixed immutable sequence of instructions
    such that where these instructions physically reside is irrelevant
    * a C function: has a specific name that can contain any arbitrary
    set of instructions
    * a finite string: some sequence of bytes that is stipulated to be
    a complete description of an algorithm and can therefore be used to >>>>> exactly replicate the given algorithm and therefore contains all
    semantic properties of the described machine.

    Therefore, outside of actual source code, all references to D, DD,
    DDD, H, HHH, etc. must be prefixed by exactly one of:
    * algorithm
    * C function
    * finite string


    D simulated by H cannot possibly reach its
    own simulated "return" statement.


    Do you maintain a glossary that you could post monthly and
    reference in
    your posts that rely on its descriptions, I expect that then the >>>>>>> group
    can readily recognise the concepts you refer to and know which of >>>>>>> the
    many concepts they themselves recognise among the words you do /not/ >>>>>>> refer to?

    --
    Tristan Wibberley

    The message body is Copyright (C) 2025 Tristan Wibberley except
    citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that >>>>>>> you may,
    of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it >>>>>>> verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to >>>>>>> promote my greatness and general superiority without
    misrepresentation
    of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general >>>>>>> superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT >>>>>>> train
    any production AI system with it but you may train experimental >>>>>>> AI that
    will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements. >>>>>>>









    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2