• Re: No human has been able to understand this simple C in three years

    From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory on Thu Oct 30 12:24:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly
    determine what other people understand and what they
    don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what
    others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he
    thinks others understand what actually is nonsense without any
    meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse-
    engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to
    faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this
    proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me
    for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine
    whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely
    a matter of skill as the information necessary for the
    determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often
    called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It
    is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or
    both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of
    honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks
    summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment.
    --
    Mikko

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory on Thu Oct 30 12:29:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-10-29 16:29:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:55:21 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 4:09 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)();
    int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD()
    {
       int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    int main()
    {
       HHH(DD);
    }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly determine what >>>>>> other people understand and what they don't. Sometimes he assumes
    nobody understands what others see sas obvious and well known, ar
    other times he thinks others understand what actually is nonsense
    without any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able
    reverse-engineer the non-halting result by merely
    being told to faithfully simulate DD with HHH and
    see what happens this proves that all of my reviewers
    have been dishonest with me for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine whether someone >>>> is honest. To determine honesty is not solely a matter of skill as the >>>> information necessary for the determination is not always avoalable.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    Anyone that knows C and denies this is dishonest.

    Thank you for the example.

    That is the clearest that I could make it
    after nearly 21 years.

    Maybe, but for a long time it has been sufficiently clear that you
    lack the skills to determine whether someone is honest and what
    someone understands.
    --
    Mikko

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Thu Oct 30 08:15:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) HERE: >>>>>>>>> goto HERE; return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly
    determine what other people understand and what they
    don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what
    others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he
    thinks others understand what actually is nonsense without any >>>>>>>> meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse-
    engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to
    faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this
    proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me
    for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine
    whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely
    a matter of skill as the information necessary for the
    determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often
    called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It
    is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or
    both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of
    honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment.


    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Thu Oct 30 08:17:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 10/30/2025 5:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:55:21 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 4:09 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)();
    int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD()
    {
       int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    int main()
    {
       HHH(DD);
    }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly determine what >>>>>>> other people understand and what they don't. Sometimes he assumes >>>>>>> nobody understands what others see sas obvious and well known, ar >>>>>>> other times he thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able
    reverse-engineer the non-halting result by merely
    being told to faithfully simulate DD with HHH and
    see what happens this proves that all of my reviewers
    have been dishonest with me for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine whether someone >>>>> is honest. To determine honesty is not solely a matter of skill as the >>>>> information necessary for the determination is not always avoalable.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    Anyone that knows C and denies this is dishonest.

    Thank you for the example.

    That is the clearest that I could make it
    after nearly 21 years.

    Maybe, but for a long time it has been sufficiently clear that you
    lack the skills to determine whether someone is honest and what
    someone understands.


    (a) Do you know C?
    (b) Do you deny that D simulated by H cannot reach
    its own simulated "return" statement?
    If (a) and (b) then you are a liar.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory on Fri Oct 31 13:53:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly
    determine what other people understand and what they
    don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what
    others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he
    thinks others understand what actually is nonsense without any >>>>>>>>> meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse-
    engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to
    faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this
    proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me
    for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine
    whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely
    a matter of skill as the information necessary for the
    determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often
    called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It
    is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or
    both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of
    honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks
    summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment.


    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if the input describes a halting computation but rejects if the input describes a non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and deny
    this are liars.
    --
    Mikko

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory on Fri Oct 31 14:02:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-10-30 13:17:26 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:55:21 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 4:09 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)();
    int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD()
    {
       int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    int main()
    {
       HHH(DD);
    }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly determine what >>>>>>>> other people understand and what they don't. Sometimes he assumes >>>>>>>> nobody understands what others see sas obvious and well known, ar >>>>>>>> other times he thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able
    reverse-engineer the non-halting result by merely
    being told to faithfully simulate DD with HHH and
    see what happens this proves that all of my reviewers
    have been dishonest with me for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine whether someone >>>>>> is honest. To determine honesty is not solely a matter of skill as the >>>>>> information necessary for the determination is not always avoalable. >>>>>
    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    Anyone that knows C and denies this is dishonest.

    Thank you for the example.

    That is the clearest that I could make it
    after nearly 21 years.

    Maybe, but for a long time it has been sufficiently clear that you
    lack the skills to determine whether someone is honest and what
    someone understands.

    (a) Do you know C?

    Yes, but not the latest revision.

    (b) Do you deny that D simulated by H cannot reach
    its own simulated "return" statement?

    The question is ambiguous. The usual meaning of "D simulated by H"
    is the particular D that H simulates or tries to simulate. But there
    is only one D in the context of the question so it seems a little
    odd to be so verbose oabout its identity. However, some poeple may
    interprete it to mean something that only has the behavour H has
    simulated and not the behavour specified by the input to H.
    Therefore it is better note that the question is ill-posed and to
    answer only when the question is corrected.

    If (a) and (b) then you are a liar.

    Because (b) is not yet answered or even properly asked this must
    wait, too.
    --
    Mikko

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Fri Oct 31 08:42:38 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) HERE: >>>>>>>>>>> goto HERE; return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly
    determine what other people understand and what they
    don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what
    others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he
    thinks others understand what actually is nonsense without any >>>>>>>>>> meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse-
    engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to
    faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this
    proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me
    for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine
    whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely
    a matter of skill as the information necessary for the
    determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often
    called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It
    is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or
    both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of
    honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks
    summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment.


    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if the input describes a halting computation but rejects if the input describes a non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and deny
    this are liars.


    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    *This is the first step of my proof*

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern
    Then H returns 0 to reject its input as non-halting.

    When the halting problem requires a halt decider
    to report on something that its input does not say
    then the halting problem itself is a category error.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Fri Oct 31 08:50:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 10/31/2025 7:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:17:26 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:55:21 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 4:09 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)();
    int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD()
    {
       int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    int main()
    {
       HHH(DD);
    }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly determine >>>>>>>>> what
    other people understand and what they don't. Sometimes he assumes >>>>>>>>> nobody understands what others see sas obvious and well known, ar >>>>>>>>> other times he thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able
    reverse-engineer the non-halting result by merely
    being told to faithfully simulate DD with HHH and
    see what happens this proves that all of my reviewers
    have been dishonest with me for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine whether
    someone
    is honest. To determine honesty is not solely a matter of skill >>>>>>> as the
    information necessary for the determination is not always avoalable. >>>>>>
    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    Anyone that knows C and denies this is dishonest.

    Thank you for the example.

    That is the clearest that I could make it
    after nearly 21 years.

    Maybe, but for a long time it has been sufficiently clear that you
    lack the skills to determine whether someone is honest and what
    someone understands.

    (a) Do you know C?

    Yes, but not the latest revision.


    I started with K & R back when it was brand new.

    (b) Do you deny that D simulated by H cannot reach
         its own simulated "return" statement?

    The question is ambiguous. The usual meaning of "D simulated by H"
    is the particular D that H simulates or tries to simulate. But there
    is only one D in the context of the question so it seems a little
    odd to be so verbose oabout its identity.

    Lets back up a step. Do you know what ordinary recursion is:

    int factorial(int n)
    {
    if (n >= 1)
    return n*factorial(n-1);
    else
    return 1;
    }
    However, some poeple may
    interprete it to mean something that only has the behavour H has
    simulated and not the behavour specified by the input to H.

    Some people think that cats are dogs, they are simply wrong.

    Therefore it is better note that the question is ill-posed and to
    answer only when the question is corrected.

    If (a) and (b) then you are a liar.

    Because (b) is not yet answered or even properly asked this must
    wait, too.


    When D is simulated by H according to the semantics of C
    until H detects a repeating pattern that proves that D
    cannot possibly reach its own "return" statement the
    execution trace goes like this:

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern
    Then H returns 0 to reject its input as non-halting.

    Any other understanding is a lack of understanding.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@dbush.mobile@gmail.com to comp.theory on Fri Oct 31 10:13:38 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 10/31/2025 9:42 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) HERE: >>>>>>>>>>>> goto HERE; return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly
    determine what other people understand and what they
    don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what
    others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he >>>>>>>>>>> thinks others understand what actually is nonsense without >>>>>>>>>>> any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse- >>>>>>>>>> engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to
    faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this
    proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me >>>>>>>>>> for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine
    whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely >>>>>>>>> a matter of skill as the information necessary for the
    determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often
    called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It >>>>>>>>> is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or >>>>>>>>> both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of
    honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks
    summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment.


    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if the input
    describes a halting computation but rejects if the input describes a
    non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and deny
    this are liars.


    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    *This is the first step of my proof*

    int D()
    {
      int Halt_Status = H(D);
      if (Halt_Status)
        HERE: goto HERE;
      return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern
    Then H returns 0 to reject its input as non-halting.

    i.e. it reports on this non-input, which you admitted is a different
    machine:

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = UTM(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }


    When the halting problem requires a halt decider
    to report on something that its input does not say

    False.

    then the halting problem itself is a category error.


    So your criteria is a category error because it requires H to report on
    a non-input.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris M. Thomasson@chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com to comp.theory on Fri Oct 31 12:58:56 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 10/31/2025 6:50 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 10/31/2025 7:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:17:26 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:55:21 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 4:09 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)();
    int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD()
    {
       int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    int main()
    {
       HHH(DD);
    }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly determine >>>>>>>>>> what
    other people understand and what they don't. Sometimes he assumes >>>>>>>>>> nobody understands what others see sas obvious and well known, ar >>>>>>>>>> other times he thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able
    reverse-engineer the non-halting result by merely
    being told to faithfully simulate DD with HHH and
    see what happens this proves that all of my reviewers
    have been dishonest with me for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine whether >>>>>>>> someone
    is honest. To determine honesty is not solely a matter of skill >>>>>>>> as the
    information necessary for the determination is not always
    avoalable.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    Anyone that knows C and denies this is dishonest.

    Thank you for the example.

    That is the clearest that I could make it
    after nearly 21 years.

    Maybe, but for a long time it has been sufficiently clear that you
    lack the skills to determine whether someone is honest and what
    someone understands.

    (a) Do you know C?

    Yes, but not the latest revision.


    I started with K & R back when it was brand new.

    (b) Do you deny that D simulated by H cannot reach
         its own simulated "return" statement?

    The question is ambiguous. The usual meaning of "D simulated by H"
    is the particular D that H simulates or tries to simulate. But there
    is only one D in the context of the question so it seems a little
    odd to be so verbose oabout its identity.

    Lets back up a step. Do you know what ordinary recursion is:

    int factorial(int n)
    {
      if (n >= 1)
        return n*factorial(n-1);
      else
        return 1;
    }
     However, some poeple may
    interprete it to mean something that only has the behavour H has
    simulated and not the behavour specified by the input to H.

    Some people think that cats are dogs, they are simply wrong.

    Therefore it is better note that the question is ill-posed and to
    answer only when the question is corrected.

    If (a) and (b) then you are a liar.

    Because (b) is not yet answered or even properly asked this must
    wait, too.


    When D is simulated by H according to the semantics of C
    until H detects a repeating pattern that proves that D
    cannot possibly reach its own "return" statement the
    execution trace goes like this:

    int D()
    {
      int Halt_Status = H(D);
      if (Halt_Status)
        HERE: goto HERE;
      return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern
    Then H returns 0 to reject its input as non-halting.

    Any other understanding is a lack of understanding.


    LOL! You tried to tell me that BASIC cannot handle recursion. Ring your
    bell?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 11:22:56 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly
    determine what other people understand and what they
    don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what
    others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he >>>>>>>>>>> thinks others understand what actually is nonsense without any >>>>>>>>>>> meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse- >>>>>>>>>> engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to
    faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this
    proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me >>>>>>>>>> for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine
    whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely >>>>>>>>> a matter of skill as the information necessary for the
    determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often
    called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It >>>>>>>>> is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or >>>>>>>>> both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of
    honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks
    summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment.

    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if the input
    describes a halting computation but rejects if the input describes a
    non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and deny
    this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a proof.
    When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an
    error to accept it.
    --
    Mikko

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 11:32:57 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-10-31 13:50:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 7:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:17:26 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:55:21 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 4:09 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)();
    int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD()
    {
       int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    int main()
    {
       HHH(DD);
    }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly determine what >>>>>>>>>> other people understand and what they don't. Sometimes he assumes >>>>>>>>>> nobody understands what others see sas obvious and well known, ar >>>>>>>>>> other times he thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able
    reverse-engineer the non-halting result by merely
    being told to faithfully simulate DD with HHH and
    see what happens this proves that all of my reviewers
    have been dishonest with me for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine whether someone >>>>>>>> is honest. To determine honesty is not solely a matter of skill as the >>>>>>>> information necessary for the determination is not always avoalable. >>>>>>>
    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    Anyone that knows C and denies this is dishonest.

    Thank you for the example.

    That is the clearest that I could make it
    after nearly 21 years.

    Maybe, but for a long time it has been sufficiently clear that you
    lack the skills to determine whether someone is honest and what
    someone understands.

    (a) Do you know C?

    Yes, but not the latest revision.

    I started with K & R back when it was brand new.

    I started with the complier my professor gave me and told to use.
    I quickly found out that there was a serious bug in the compiler.
    Fortunately I found a work-around so that I could proceed while
    waiting for a corrected compiler.

    (b) Do you deny that D simulated by H cannot reach
         its own simulated "return" statement?

    The question is ambiguous. The usual meaning of "D simulated by H"
    is the particular D that H simulates or tries to simulate. But there
    is only one D in the context of the question so it seems a little
    odd to be so verbose oabout its identity.

    Lets back up a step. Do you know what ordinary recursion is:

    int factorial(int n)
    {
    if (n >= 1)
    return n*factorial(n-1);
    else
    return 1;
    }

    Yes, that is an important idea both in mathematics and in programming.
    For programming one must also know what to do when recurion is not
    supperted by the language or is prohibited for some reason.

    However, some poeple may
    interprete it to mean something that only has the behavour H has
    simulated and not the behavour specified by the input to H.

    Some people think that cats are dogs, they are simply wrong.

    Not very many people. Likewise, I don't think many people misinterprete
    "D simulated by H" to mean the simulation of D by H. But I have seen at
    least one who does.
    --
    Mikko

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 08:27:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) >>>>>>>>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly
    determine what other people understand and what they
    don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what
    others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he >>>>>>>>>>>> thinks others understand what actually is nonsense without >>>>>>>>>>>> any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse- >>>>>>>>>>> engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to
    faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this >>>>>>>>>>> proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me >>>>>>>>>>> for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine
    whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely >>>>>>>>>> a matter of skill as the information necessary for the
    determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often >>>>>>>>>> called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It >>>>>>>>>> is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or >>>>>>>>>> both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of
    honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. EREBoSR >>>>>
    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks
    summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment.

    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if the input
    describes a halting computation but rejects if the input describes a
    non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and deny
    this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a proof.
    When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an
    error to accept it.


    The actual sequence of steps that the input to H(D)
    specifies are the steps shown above. Anyone that disagrees
    is not facing actual reality.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 08:32:37 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 4:32 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:50:12 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 7:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:17:26 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:29 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:55:21 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 4:09 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)();
    int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD()
    {
       int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    int main()
    {
       HHH(DD);
    }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly
    determine what
    other people understand and what they don't. Sometimes he >>>>>>>>>>> assumes
    nobody understands what others see sas obvious and well >>>>>>>>>>> known, ar
    other times he thinks others understand what actually is >>>>>>>>>>> nonsense
    without any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able
    reverse-engineer the non-halting result by merely
    being told to faithfully simulate DD with HHH and
    see what happens this proves that all of my reviewers
    have been dishonest with me for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine whether >>>>>>>>> someone
    is honest. To determine honesty is not solely a matter of skill >>>>>>>>> as the
    information necessary for the determination is not always
    avoalable.

    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    Anyone that knows C and denies this is dishonest.

    Thank you for the example.

    That is the clearest that I could make it
    after nearly 21 years.

    Maybe, but for a long time it has been sufficiently clear that you
    lack the skills to determine whether someone is honest and what
    someone understands.

    (a) Do you know C?

    Yes, but not the latest revision.

    I started with K & R back when it was brand new.

    I started with the complier my professor gave me and told to use.
    I quickly found out that there was a serious bug in the compiler.
    Fortunately I found a work-around so that I could proceed while
    waiting for a corrected compiler.


    I got the Vax 11-780 compiler stuck in an infinite
    loop trying to compile my code that implemented
    cons and cdr of Lisp with lots of recursion.

    (b) Do you deny that D simulated by H cannot reach
         its own simulated "return" statement?

    The question is ambiguous. The usual meaning of "D simulated by H"
    is the particular D that H simulates or tries to simulate. But there
    is only one D in the context of the question so it seems a little
    odd to be so verbose oabout its identity.

    Lets back up a step. Do you know what ordinary recursion is:

    int factorial(int n)
    {
       if (n >= 1)
         return n*factorial(n-1);
       else
         return 1;
    }

    Yes, that is an important idea both in mathematics and in programming.
    For programming one must also know what to do when recurion is not
    supperted by the language or is prohibited for some reason.


    Don't tolerate such languages.

    However, some poeple may
    interprete it to mean something that only has the behavour H has
    simulated and not the behavour specified by the input to H.

    Some people think that cats are dogs, they are simply wrong.

    Not very many people. Likewise, I don't think many people misinterprete
    "D simulated by H" to mean the simulation of D by H. But I have seen at
    least one who does.


    They are mostly all simply damned liars.
    Kaz is trying to get away with the idea
    that D simulated by H reaches its own
    simulated "return" statement.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@dbush.mobile@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 09:53:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>> determine what other people understand and what they >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what
    others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he >>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks others understand what actually is nonsense without >>>>>>>>>>>>> any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse- >>>>>>>>>>>> engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to >>>>>>>>>>>> faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this >>>>>>>>>>>> proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me >>>>>>>>>>>> for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine
    whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely >>>>>>>>>>> a matter of skill as the information necessary for the
    determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often >>>>>>>>>>> called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It >>>>>>>>>>> is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or >>>>>>>>>>> both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of
    honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. EREBoSR >>>>>>
    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks >>>>>> summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment.

    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing machine >>>> that can be given as an input a description of any Turing machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if the input >>>> describes a halting computation but rejects if the input describes a
    non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and deny
    this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a proof.
    When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an
    error to accept it.


    The actual sequence of steps that the input to H(D)

    i.e. finite string D, which is the description of machine D and
    therefore is stipulated to specify all semantic properties of machine D, including the fact that machine D halts when executed directly.

    specifies are the steps shown above.

    False, as shown above.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 09:22:21 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 8:53 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine what other people understand and what they >>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what >>>>>>>>>>>>>> others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks others understand what actually is nonsense without >>>>>>>>>>>>>> any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse- >>>>>>>>>>>>> engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to >>>>>>>>>>>>> faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this >>>>>>>>>>>>> proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me >>>>>>>>>>>>> for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine >>>>>>>>>>>> whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely >>>>>>>>>>>> a matter of skill as the information necessary for the >>>>>>>>>>>> determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often >>>>>>>>>>>> called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It >>>>>>>>>>>> is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or >>>>>>>>>>>> both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of >>>>>>>>>>>> honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning.
    EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks >>>>>>> summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you >>>>>>> knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment. >>>>>>
    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing
    machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing machine and >>>>> of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if the
    input
    describes a halting computation but rejects if the input describes a >>>>> non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and deny >>>>> this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a proof.
    When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an
    error to accept it.


    The actual sequence of steps that the input to H(D)

    i.e. finite string D, which is the description of machine D and
    therefore is stipulated to specify all semantic properties of machine D, including the fact that machine D halts when executed directly.


    Simply a counter-factual assumption.
    We can stipulate that the living animal
    of cows are a type of 15 story office
    building and we are simply wrong.

    Cows and 15 story office building already
    have a set of stipulated properties that
    are mutually exclusive.

    specifies are the steps shown above.

    False, as shown above.

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@dbush.mobile@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 10:37:41 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 10:22 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 8:53 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine what other people understand and what they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine >>>>>>>>>>>>> whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely >>>>>>>>>>>>> a matter of skill as the information necessary for the >>>>>>>>>>>>> determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often >>>>>>>>>>>>> called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It >>>>>>>>>>>>> is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or >>>>>>>>>>>>> both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of >>>>>>>>>>>>> honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. >>>>>>>>> EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks >>>>>>>> summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you >>>>>>>> knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment. >>>>>>>
    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing
    machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing machine and >>>>>> of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if the >>>>>> input
    describes a halting computation but rejects if the input describes a >>>>>> non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and deny >>>>>> this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a proof.
    When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an
    error to accept it.


    The actual sequence of steps that the input to H(D)

    i.e. finite string D, which is the description of machine D and
    therefore is stipulated to specify all semantic properties of machine
    D, including the fact that machine D halts when executed directly.


    Simply a counter-factual assumption.

    False. The above is proven true by the meaning of the words.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 09:41:37 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 9:37 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:22 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 8:53 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine what other people understand and what they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a matter of skill as the information necessary for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often >>>>>>>>>>>>>> called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. >>>>>>>>>> EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks >>>>>>>>> summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you >>>>>>>>> knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment. >>>>>>>>
    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing >>>>>>> machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing machine >>>>>>> and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if the >>>>>>> input
    describes a halting computation but rejects if the input describes a >>>>>>> non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and deny >>>>>>> this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a proof. >>>>> When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an
    error to accept it.


    The actual sequence of steps that the input to H(D)

    i.e. finite string D, which is the description of machine D and
    therefore is stipulated to specify all semantic properties of machine
    D, including the fact that machine D halts when executed directly.


    Simply a counter-factual assumption.

    False.  The above is proven true by the meaning of the words.

    Then go through the steps detail by detail.
    You cannot and will not do this only because
    you know that you are full of shit.
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@dbush.mobile@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 11:24:43 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 10:41 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:37 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:22 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 8:53 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine what other people understand and what they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solely
    a matter of skill as the information necessary for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called other people dishonest without sufficient >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence. It
    is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stupid or
    both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. >>>>>>>>>>> EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed >>>>>>>>>> lacks
    summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you >>>>>>>>>> knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier >>>>>>>>>> comment.

    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing >>>>>>>> machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing
    machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if >>>>>>>> the input
    describes a halting computation but rejects if the input
    describes a
    non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and >>>>>>>> deny
    this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a proof. >>>>>> When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an
    error to accept it.


    The actual sequence of steps that the input to H(D)

    i.e. finite string D, which is the description of machine D and
    therefore is stipulated to specify all semantic properties of
    machine D, including the fact that machine D halts when executed
    directly.


    Simply a counter-factual assumption.

    False.  The above is proven true by the meaning of the words.

    Then go through the steps detail by detail.

    The above is a semantic tautology. Disagreeing with a semantic
    tautology is always incorrect.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 10:32:27 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 10:24 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:41 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:37 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:22 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 8:53 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Halt_Status) HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine what other people understand and what they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Now that four different LLM systems have been able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reverse-
    engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with me
    for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solely
    a matter of skill as the information necessary for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called other people dishonest without sufficient >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence. It
    is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stupid or
    both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. >>>>>>>>>>>> EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed >>>>>>>>>>> lacks
    summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if >>>>>>>>>>> you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier >>>>>>>>>>> comment.

    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing >>>>>>>>> machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing
    machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if >>>>>>>>> the input
    describes a halting computation but rejects if the input
    describes a
    non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and >>>>>>>>> deny
    this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a proof. >>>>>>> When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an >>>>>>> error to accept it.


    The actual sequence of steps that the input to H(D)

    i.e. finite string D, which is the description of machine D and
    therefore is stipulated to specify all semantic properties of
    machine D, including the fact that machine D halts when executed
    directly.


    Simply a counter-factual assumption.

    False.  The above is proven true by the meaning of the words.

    Then go through the steps detail by detail.

    The above is a semantic tautology.  Disagreeing with a semantic
    tautology is always incorrect.


    This is the actual semantic tautology and all
    you have as rebuttal is mindless dogmatism.

    The rebuttal must be at the C level no
    Obfuscation allowed.

    int D()
    {
    int Halt_Status = H(D);
    if (Halt_Status)
    HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status;
    }

    D simulated by H according to the semantics of C
    programming language (until H sees the repeating
    pattern) does enable H to report that its simulated
    input cannot possibly reach its own simulated
    "return" statement final halt state.
    *H is a correct termination analyzer for D*
    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dbush@dbush.mobile@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 11:44:06 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:24 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:41 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:37 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:22 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 8:53 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Halt_Status) HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine what other people understand and what they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Now that four different LLM systems have been able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reverse-
    engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with me
    for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solely
    a matter of skill as the information necessary for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often
    called other people dishonest without sufficient >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence. It
    is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stupid or
    both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting
    reasoning. EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed >>>>>>>>>>>> lacks
    summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as >>>>>>>>>>>> if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier >>>>>>>>>>>> comment.

    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no
    Truing machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing >>>>>>>>>> machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if >>>>>>>>>> the input
    describes a halting computation but rejects if the input
    describes a
    non-halting computation. People who know computation theory >>>>>>>>>> and deny
    this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a >>>>>>>> proof.
    When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an >>>>>>>> error to accept it.


    The actual sequence of steps that the input to H(D)

    i.e. finite string D, which is the description of machine D and
    therefore is stipulated to specify all semantic properties of
    machine D, including the fact that machine D halts when executed
    directly.


    Simply a counter-factual assumption.

    False.  The above is proven true by the meaning of the words.

    Then go through the steps detail by detail.

    The above is a semantic tautology.  Disagreeing with a semantic
    tautology is always incorrect.


    This is the actual semantic tautology and all
    you have as rebuttal is mindless dogmatism.

    In other words you're claiming that finite string D does not have all
    semantic properties of machine D, and are therefore claiming finite
    string D is not the description of machine D.

    If that's the case, what finite string is the description of machine D?
    One *must* exist, as you've admitted:

    On 9/12/2025 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    every TM has a machine description

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  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 12:04:34 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 10:44 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:24 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:41 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:37 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:22 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 8:53 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Halt_Status) HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine what other people understand and what they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others see sas obvious and well known, ar other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> times he
    thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Now that four different LLM systems have been able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reverse-
    engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
    proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with me
    for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solely
    a matter of skill as the information necessary for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often
    called other people dishonest without sufficient >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence. It
    is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stupid or
    both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasoning. EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" >>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed lacks
    summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as >>>>>>>>>>>>> if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier >>>>>>>>>>>>> comment.

    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no >>>>>>>>>>> Truing machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing >>>>>>>>>>> machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if >>>>>>>>>>> the input
    describes a halting computation but rejects if the input >>>>>>>>>>> describes a
    non-halting computation. People who know computation theory >>>>>>>>>>> and deny
    this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a >>>>>>>>> proof.
    When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an >>>>>>>>> error to accept it.


    The actual sequence of steps that the input to H(D)

    i.e. finite string D, which is the description of machine D and >>>>>>> therefore is stipulated to specify all semantic properties of
    machine D, including the fact that machine D halts when executed >>>>>>> directly.


    Simply a counter-factual assumption.

    False.  The above is proven true by the meaning of the words.

    Then go through the steps detail by detail.

    The above is a semantic tautology.  Disagreeing with a semantic
    tautology is always incorrect.


    This is the actual semantic tautology and all
    you have as rebuttal is mindless dogmatism.

    In other words you're claiming that finite string D does not have all semantic properties of machine D,

    I am claiming the verified fact that D simulated
    by H specifies a different sequence of steps than
    D simulated by H1. Simply lying about this doesn't
    actually change the verified facts of it.

    D does as a matter of fact call H(D) in recursive
    simulation and D does not call H1 at all.

    and are therefore claiming finite
    string D is not the description of machine D.

    If that's the case, what finite string is the description of machine D?
    One *must* exist, as you've admitted:

    On 9/12/2025 9:30 AM, olcott wrote:
    every TM has a machine description

    --
    Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
    hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
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  • From dbush@dbush.mobile@gmail.com to comp.theory on Sat Nov 1 14:14:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 11/1/2025 1:04 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:44 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:24 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:41 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:37 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 10:22 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 8:53 AM, dbush wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 9:27 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 11/1/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Halt_Status) HERE: goto HERE; return Halt_Status; } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine what other people understand and what they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others see sas obvious and well known, ar other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> times he
    thinks others understand what actually is nonsense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without any meaningful content to be understood. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Now that four different LLM systems have been able >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reverse-
    engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
    proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with me
    for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not solely
    a matter of skill as the information necessary for the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often
    called other people dishonest without sufficient >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence. It
    is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stupid or
    both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasoning. EREBoSR

    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> indeed lacks
    summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier >>>>>>>>>>>>>> comment.

    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no >>>>>>>>>>>> Truing machine
    that can be given as an input a description of any Turing >>>>>>>>>>>> machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts >>>>>>>>>>>> if the input
    describes a halting computation but rejects if the input >>>>>>>>>>>> describes a
    non-halting computation. People who know computation theory >>>>>>>>>>>> and deny
    this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars >>>>>>>>>>> on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof >>>>>>>>>>> because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a >>>>>>>>>> proof.
    When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an >>>>>>>>>> error to accept it.


    The actual sequence of steps that the input to H(D)

    i.e. finite string D, which is the description of machine D and >>>>>>>> therefore is stipulated to specify all semantic properties of >>>>>>>> machine D, including the fact that machine D halts when executed >>>>>>>> directly.


    Simply a counter-factual assumption.

    False.  The above is proven true by the meaning of the words.

    Then go through the steps detail by detail.

    The above is a semantic tautology.  Disagreeing with a semantic
    tautology is always incorrect.


    This is the actual semantic tautology and all
    you have as rebuttal is mindless dogmatism.

    In other words you're claiming that finite string D does not have all
    semantic properties of machine D,

    I am claiming the verified fact that D

    i.e. the finite string description of machine D which is stipulated to
    specify all semantics properties of machine D including the fact that it
    halts when executed directly.

    simulated
    by H specifies a different sequence of steps

    False, see above.

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  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to comp.theory on Sun Nov 2 14:35:56 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.theory

    On 2025-11-01 13:27:50 +0000, olcott said:

    On 11/1/2025 4:22 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-31 13:42:38 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/31/2025 6:53 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-30 13:15:03 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/30/2025 5:24 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-29 16:29:04 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/29/2025 6:02 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-28 14:52:54 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/28/2025 5:06 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
    On 28/10/2025 09:09, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-27 13:45:13 +0000, olcott said:

    On 10/27/2025 5:10 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 2025-10-25 17:53:27 +0000, olcott said:

    typedef int (*ptr)(); int HHH(ptr P);

    int DD() { int Halt_Status = HHH(DD); if (Halt_Status) HERE: goto HERE;
    return Halt_Status; }

    int main() { HHH(DD); }

    Olcott has showm many times that he cannot correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>> determine what other people understand and what they >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't. Sometimes he assumes nobody understands what
    others see sas obvious and well known, ar other times he >>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks others understand what actually is nonsense without any >>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningful content to be understood.

    Now that four different LLM systems have been able reverse- >>>>>>>>>>>> engineer the non-halting result by merely being told to >>>>>>>>>>>> faithfully simulate DD with HHH and see what happens this >>>>>>>>>>>> proves that all of my reviewers have been dishonest with me >>>>>>>>>>>> for three years.

    Another skill Olcott has shown to lack is to determine
    whether someone is honest. To determine honesty is not solely >>>>>>>>>>> a matter of skill as the information necessary for the
    determination is not always avoalable. But Olcott has often >>>>>>>>>>> called other people dishonest without sufficient evidence. It >>>>>>>>>>> is hard to tell whether he is actually dishonest or stupid or >>>>>>>>>>> both, but the result is the same anyway: in matters of
    honesty Olcott can be trusted.

    ITYM 'can't'.


    int D()
    {
       int Halt_Status = H(D);
       if (Halt_Status)
         HERE: goto HERE;
       return Halt_Status;
    }

    H simulates D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    that calls H(D) to simulate D
    until H sees this repeating pattern.

    People that know C and deny this are dishonest.

    You say more than you know.

    Mere empty rhetoric entirely bereft of supporting reasoning. EREBoSR >>>>>>
    Your "People that know C and deny this are dishonest" indeed lacks >>>>>> summporting reasoning but it shows that you try to look as if you
    knew what you actually don't know.

    Anyway, thank you for an example that supports my earlier comment.

    2 + 3 = 5
    People that know arithmetic and deny this are liars

    When any unequivocal fact is stated within any
    knowledge domain and people knowing this domain
    deny it then they are always liars.

    Another example: it is rigrously proven that there is no Truing machine >>>> that can be given as an input a description of any Turing machine and
    of any valid input to that Truing machine and that accepts if the input >>>> describes a halting computation but rejects if the input describes a
    non-halting computation. People who know computation theory and deny
    this are liars.

    I have proven that this is incorrect yet the damned liars
    on this forum refuse to accept the first step of my proof
    because they are damned liars.

    It is not useful to say "I have proven" wthout a pointer to a proof.
    When the exact identity of "the" proof is not specified it is an
    error to accept it.

    The actual sequence of steps that the input to H(D)
    specifies are the steps shown above. Anyone that disagrees
    is not facing actual reality.

    An example of a possible sequence is shown. There is no proof that this
    is the actual sequence. In particulat, the actual number of simulation
    levels before H sees the repeating pattern is not shown. The part of
    the trace of D from the return from H to the termination of D is not
    shown but it is provably a parto of the behaviour of D.
    --
    Mikko

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