• The Development Disaster behind macOS

    From ANTant@ANTant@zimage.com (Ant) to comp.sys.mac.software,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.system.osx86,comp.sys.mac.systems,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Fri Oct 19 20:23:13 2018
  • From Supermarine Spitfire@spitfire@spitfireflyinghigh.com to comp.sys.mac.software,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.system.osx86,comp.sys.mac.systems,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Sat Oct 20 13:58:22 2018
  • From Krzysztof Mitko@invalid@kmitko.at.list.dot.pl to comp.sys.mac.system, comp.sys.mac.vintage on Sat Oct 20 18:48:11 2018
  • From John Varela@newlamps@verizon.net to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Mon Oct 22 22:05:00 2018
  • From Your Name@YourName@YourISP.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Tue Oct 23 13:28:30 2018
  • From Eli the Bearded@*@eli.users.panix.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Tue Oct 23 03:18:39 2018
  • From Your Name@YourName@YourISP.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Tue Oct 23 18:18:42 2018
  • From Krzysztof Mitko@invalid@kmitko.at.list.dot.pl to comp.sys.mac.vintage, comp.sys.mac.system on Tue Oct 23 10:55:39 2018
  • From Siri Cruise@chine.bleu@yahoo.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Tue Oct 23 03:55:22 2018
  • From I.Mackie@iMac@nomail.afraid.org to comp.sys.mac.software,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.system.osx86,comp.sys.mac.systems,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Wed Nov 21 22:57:03 2018
  • From Mantas@mantas@universe-trinti.lt to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Fri Dec 14 15:23:57 2018
  • From Mantas@mantas@universe-trinti.lt to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Fri Dec 14 15:30:04 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    I mean I don't remember Apple ones.


    After the soviet collapse, the PC ruled for decades, I don't even remember ads with them, but later found out they were used in publishing, some schools (or at least one school, Wozniak visited and donated them).


    "Siri Cruise" <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:chine.bleu-03ADA3.03552023102018@reader.eternal-september.org...
    In article <0001HW.217F198B01A987DC7000091CD2EF@news.idecnet.com>,
    Krzysztof Mitko <invalid@kmitko.at.list.dot.pl> wrote:

    in Poland, in the 1980s it was actually illegal for US company to >>> > > > export
    computers here under some sort of US embargo.

    Because you were members of the Warsaw Pact.

    It may have been illegal, but that didn't stop thousands of American
    and UK computers being owned by people "behind the iron curtain", any
    more than it stopped them owning jeans and Beatles records. Many
    different computers were smuggled in: Commodore 64, Sinclair Spectrum, >>> > Atari 600, etc.

    I think MSX were legally exported to Soviet Bloc - I know at least one
    guy
    who bought MSX SpectraVideo in �k,adnica Harcerska? (shop run by
    state-controlled scouting organization) in late 80s. I know also a lot
    of
    people who bought ZX Spectrums in mid 80s, but I?Tm not sure how legal >>> it
    was.

    See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z1_(computer)

    --
    :-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
    'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
    An almond doesn't lactate. This post / \
    Yet another supercilious snowflake for justice. insults Islam.
    Mohammed


    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Your Name@YourName@YourISP.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Sat Dec 15 08:07:12 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 2018-12-14 13:23:57 +0000, Mantas said:

    As far as I know, most soviet computers were clones, IBM or ZX Spectrum
    were the most popular to copy.
    People were making ZX Spectrum clones at home, even improving and
    upgrading them and there was a lot of factory made clones.

    Not difficult to improve Sinclair's crappy toy "computers". Just adding
    a proper keyboard would be a major improvement by itself, rather than
    the disgustingly awful membrane and later rubberised keyboards those
    useless things came with. Next up would be a proper operating system
    and programming system, rather than the hopeless "press five keys to
    get the keyword 'If'" that Sinclairt stupidly forced users to program
    with.

    But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly useless and nothing more than toys.

    If you wanted a *real* home computer back then, you bought a Commodore system.

    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Lloyd@elfinarc6@gmail.com to comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Fri Dec 14 13:48:22 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    On 2018-12-14 13:23:57 +0000, Mantas said:

    As far as I know, most soviet computers were clones, IBM or ZX Spectrum
    were the most popular to copy.
    People were making ZX Spectrum clones at home, even improving and
    upgrading them and there was a lot of factory made clones.

    Not difficult to improve Sinclair's crappy toy "computers". Just adding
    a proper keyboard would be a major improvement by itself, rather than
    the disgustingly awful membrane and later rubberised keyboards those
    useless things came with. Next up would be a proper operating system
    and programming system, rather than the hopeless "press five keys to
    get the keyword 'If'" that Sinclairt stupidly forced users to program
    with.

    But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly useless and nothing more than toys.

    If you wanted a *real* home computer back then, you bought a Commodore system.



    .or an Atari

    --
    Lloyd
    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Your Name@YourName@YourISP.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Sat Dec 15 13:11:48 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 2018-12-14 19:48:22 +0000, Lloyd said:
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    On 2018-12-14 13:23:57 +0000, Mantas said:

    As far as I know, most soviet computers were clones, IBM or ZX Spectrum
    were the most popular to copy.
    People were making ZX Spectrum clones at home, even improving and
    upgrading them and there was a lot of factory made clones.

    Not difficult to improve Sinclair's crappy toy "computers". Just adding
    a proper keyboard would be a major improvement by itself, rather than
    the disgustingly awful membrane and later rubberised keyboards those
    useless things came with. Next up would be a proper operating system
    and programming system, rather than the hopeless "press five keys to
    get the keyword 'If'" that Sinclair stupidly forced users to program
    with.

    But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly
    useless and nothing more than toys.

    If you wanted a *real* home computer back then, you bought a Commodore system.

    .or an Atari

    True, although they tended to be more popular in America (Britain had
    the BBC computers) and the Atari 400 did have the same ridiculous
    membrane keyboard as Sinclair's pre-Spectrum garbage.

    There were also a ton of other lesser brands which came and went very
    quickly as many companies tried to jump on the new bandwagon.


    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Bob Campbell@none@none.none to comp.sys.mac.software,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.system.osx86,comp.sys.mac.systems,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Sat Dec 15 14:53:11 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 11/21/18 5:57 PM, I.Mackie wrote:

    I've used it ..... and it worked! :-)

    I'm now using this https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/mojave/

    Have you tried it yet?

    --
    David B.

    Oh look. The resident moron tries to nymshift to "I.Mackie", but he is
    so GD stupid that his signature is still there.


    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From David B.@"David B"@nomail.afraid.org to comp.sys.mac.software,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.system.osx86,comp.sys.mac.systems,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Sat Dec 15 21:41:08 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 15/12/2018 19:53, Bob Campbell wrote:
    On 11/21/18 5:57 PM, I.Mackie wrote:

    I've used it ..... and it worked! :-)

    I'm now using this https://www.apple.com/uk/macos/mojave/

    Have you tried it yet?

    --
    David B.

    Oh look.  The resident moron tries to nymshift to "I.Mackie", but he is
    so GD stupid that his signature is still there.

    Wow! You, dear Bob, are the ONLY guy who noticed! Score 10/10

    In reality, though, I suspect you're just like the customer depicted in
    this cartoon!

    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/laptop_issues.png?

    --
    Regards,
    David B.

    https://vxer.home.blog/2018/12/08/vxer-a-profile/
    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Bob Campbell@none@none.none to comp.sys.mac.software,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.system.osx86,comp.sys.mac.systems,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Sun Dec 16 00:16:02 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 12/15/18 4:41 PM, David B. wrote:

    Wow! You, dear Bob, are the ONLY guy who noticed! Score 10/10

    No, everyone notices how fucking stupid you are. Every day. Its just impossible to reply to all of your moronic, absurdly stupid posts.

    Please go back to jail, or wherever the hell you were for the last 6
    months. The collective IQ of the planet goes down 10% when you post
    your drivel.
    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From David B.@"David B"@nomail.afraid.org to comp.sys.mac.software,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.system.osx86,comp.sys.mac.systems,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Sun Dec 16 09:55:46 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 16/12/2018 05:16, Bob Campbell wrote:
    On 12/15/18 4:41 PM, David B. wrote:

    Wow! You, dear Bob, are the ONLY guy who noticed! Score 10/10

    No, everyone notices how fucking stupid you are.  Every day.  Its just impossible to reply to all of your moronic, absurdly stupid posts.

    Please go back to jail, or wherever the hell you were for the last 6 months.  The collective IQ of the planet goes down 10% when you post
    your drivel.

    Unlike you, I don't use out-of-date software. You should update:-

    From Thunderbird/52.9.1 to Thunderbird/60.3.3

    --
    Regards,
    David B.

    https://vxer.home.blog/2018/12/08/vxer-a-profile/
    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Andrew Smallshaw@andrews@sdf.org to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Sun Dec 16 19:56:16 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 2018-12-14, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    Not difficult to improve Sinclair's crappy toy "computers". Just adding
    a proper keyboard would be a major improvement by itself, rather than
    the disgustingly awful membrane and later rubberised keyboards those
    useless things came with. Next up would be a proper operating system
    and programming system, rather than the hopeless "press five keys to
    get the keyword 'If'" that Sinclairt stupidly forced users to program
    with.

    As anything else, they were designed according to the brief they
    were given. The keyboards on the earlier models were cost saving
    measures to hit a desired price point. Yes, you can argue about
    the soundness of that decision but it didn't come from nowhere.
    The BBC had a nice keyboard but was also three times the price.

    By the time the QL/Spectrum+ were out the moulded keyboards were
    actually quite usable as well as being almost completely impervious
    to staples, breadcrumbs etc simply because the keys were so close
    fitting. This is something Apple still can't get right almost 40
    years later with their current Macbooks.

    For for the extended keyboard symbols, again that was a design
    choice and in my view an elegant one - the BASIC interpreter
    essentially compiled down to byte code as you entered the program.
    That provided a few tangible benefits: execution speed was greatly
    enhanced, syntax checking was as you typed, and it saved a lot of
    memory, e.g. an entire keyword used only a single byte. With 48K
    memory available to BASIC (ISTR the C64 was limited to 32K if you
    coded in BASIC) that allowed for more sophisticated programs.

    But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly useless and nothing more than toys.

    Oddly enough it's probably less than ten years since I last saw a
    Spectrum used for a real task: they got used for all sorts of
    specilised applications, in part because of that edge connector on
    the back and how easy it was to interface to for even non-trivial
    jobs. That last one I recal seeing was controlling a model railway
    layout at an exhibition, like so many others with a selfbuilt
    wirewrapped contraption hanging off the back actually interfacing
    to the layout. It looked quite nice actually as far as I remember,
    you had a kid of virtual signal box on screen with indication of
    signal settings and where the trains were. It's be difficult to
    do soemthing of that complexity with the kind of parallel port
    abuse that was common on the PC even 15 years later.

    OTOH I don't think I've seen a C64 outside of a retro context this
    millenium.

    --
    Andrew Smallshaw
    andrews@sdf.org
    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Your Name@YourName@YourISP.com to comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Mon Dec 17 11:19:27 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 2018-12-16 19:56:16 +0000, Andrew Smallshaw said:
    On 2018-12-14, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    Not difficult to improve Sinclair's crappy toy "computers". Just adding
    a proper keyboard would be a major improvement by itself, rather than
    the disgustingly awful membrane and later rubberised keyboards those
    useless things came with. Next up would be a proper operating system
    and programming system, rather than the hopeless "press five keys to
    get the keyword 'If'" that Sinclairt stupidly forced users to program
    with.

    As anything else, they were designed according to the brief they
    were given. The keyboards on the earlier models were cost saving
    measures to hit a desired price point. Yes, you can argue about
    the soundness of that decision but it didn't come from nowhere.

    Yes, Sinclair's useless toys were designed to be cheap, and it showed
    in every possible way. They simply weren't worth watsing money on and
    buyers should have saved a little more to get a real computer.



    The BBC had a nice keyboard but was also three times the price.

    By the time the QL/Spectrum+ were out the moulded keyboards were
    actually quite usable as well as being almost completely impervious
    to staples, breadcrumbs etc simply because the keys were so close
    fitting. This is something Apple still can't get right almost 40
    years later with their current Macbooks.

    *All* of Sinclair's keyboards were complete garbage - the ridiculous
    membrane keyboards, the spongey rubberised keyboards, and the awful
    'chicklet' keyboards.




    But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly
    useless and nothing more than toys.

    Oddly enough it's probably less than ten years since I last saw a
    Spectrum used for a real task: they got used for all sorts of
    specilised applications, in part because of that edge connector on
    the back and how easy it was to interface to for even non-trivial
    jobs. That last one I recal seeing was controlling a model railway
    layout at an exhibition, like so many others with a selfbuilt
    wirewrapped contraption hanging off the back actually interfacing
    to the layout. It looked quite nice actually as far as I remember,
    you had a kid of virtual signal box on screen with indication of
    signal settings and where the trains were. It's be difficult to
    do soemthing of that complexity with the kind of parallel port
    abuse that was common on the PC even 15 years later.

    That's what the Raspberry Pi is for, but that is really just a toy for tinkerers, not a real, usable computer.



    OTOH I don't think I've seen a C64 outside of a retro context this
    millenium.

    There's the Mini 64, although it's simply a retro games console.

    There's been various attempts to bring back the C64, some as a
    'modernised' version, but I don't think any have really happened and/or
    were just a bog-standard Windows PC running an emulator.

    There are a few places still using them. For example this story from 2016 ...

    This Old Arse Commodore 64 Is Still Being Used
    To Run An Auto Shop In Poland

    <https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/09/this-old-arse-commodore-64-is-still-being-used-to-run-an-auto-shop-in-poland/>





    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Mantas@mantas@universe-trinti.lt to comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Mon Dec 17 14:59:50 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    I guess the ZX Spectrum was the easieast or the cheapest to clone, as I
    don't know any Commodore or Atari clones.
    Talking about C64 revivals, I remembered I got this ~15 years ago: http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/c64web.html
    It had some shell and Windows 3.1 under it, with C64 emulator.

    "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote in message news:pv6j1d$1ejk$1@gioia.aioe.org...
    On 2018-12-16 19:56:16 +0000, Andrew Smallshaw said:
    On 2018-12-14, Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    Not difficult to improve Sinclair's crappy toy "computers". Just adding
    a proper keyboard would be a major improvement by itself, rather than
    the disgustingly awful membrane and later rubberised keyboards those
    useless things came with. Next up would be a proper operating system
    and programming system, rather than the hopeless "press five keys to
    get the keyword 'If'" that Sinclairt stupidly forced users to program
    with.

    As anything else, they were designed according to the brief they
    were given. The keyboards on the earlier models were cost saving
    measures to hit a desired price point. Yes, you can argue about
    the soundness of that decision but it didn't come from nowhere.

    Yes, Sinclair's useless toys were designed to be cheap, and it showed in every possible way. They simply weren't worth watsing money on and buyers should have saved a little more to get a real computer.



    The BBC had a nice keyboard but was also three times the price.

    By the time the QL/Spectrum+ were out the moulded keyboards were
    actually quite usable as well as being almost completely impervious
    to staples, breadcrumbs etc simply because the keys were so close
    fitting. This is something Apple still can't get right almost 40
    years later with their current Macbooks.

    *All* of Sinclair's keyboards were complete garbage - the ridiculous membrane keyboards, the spongey rubberised keyboards, and the awful 'chicklet' keyboards.




    But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly
    useless and nothing more than toys.

    Oddly enough it's probably less than ten years since I last saw a
    Spectrum used for a real task: they got used for all sorts of
    specilised applications, in part because of that edge connector on
    the back and how easy it was to interface to for even non-trivial
    jobs. That last one I recal seeing was controlling a model railway
    layout at an exhibition, like so many others with a selfbuilt
    wirewrapped contraption hanging off the back actually interfacing
    to the layout. It looked quite nice actually as far as I remember,
    you had a kid of virtual signal box on screen with indication of
    signal settings and where the trains were. It's be difficult to
    do soemthing of that complexity with the kind of parallel port
    abuse that was common on the PC even 15 years later.

    That's what the Raspberry Pi is for, but that is really just a toy for tinkerers, not a real, usable computer.



    OTOH I don't think I've seen a C64 outside of a retro context this
    millenium.

    There's the Mini 64, although it's simply a retro games console.

    There's been various attempts to bring back the C64, some as a
    'modernised' version, but I don't think any have really happened and/or
    were just a bog-standard Windows PC running an emulator.

    There are a few places still using them. For example this story from 2016 ...

    This Old Arse Commodore 64 Is Still Being Used
    To Run An Auto Shop In Poland

    <https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/09/this-old-arse-commodore-64-is-still-being-used-to-run-an-auto-shop-in-poland/>





    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From scott@scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Mon Dec 17 16:00:23 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    In article <pv0v0u$uqv$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly >useless and nothing more than toys.

    If you wanted a *real* home computer back then, you bought a Commodore system.

    ...or an Apple II. Nearly all 68K Macs and some of the earlier
    PowerPC Macs would read 3.5" floppies written by an Apple II without issue,
    and a few models (the various Mac LC models, or the Color Classic I have in storage) could also be equipped to read 5.25" floppies from an Apple II and
    run Apple II software. Was there a comparable migration path from
    Commodore's 8-bit line to the Amiga?

    That's without even getting into which company is still a going concern
    today and which isn't. :)

    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From scott@scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Mon Dec 17 16:11:38 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    In article <slrn3jcsq1dbet.hrt.andrews@sdf.lonestar.org>,
    Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.org> wrote:
    For for the extended keyboard symbols, again that was a design
    choice and in my view an elegant one - the BASIC interpreter
    essentially compiled down to byte code as you entered the program.
    That provided a few tangible benefits: execution speed was greatly
    enhanced, syntax checking was as you typed, and it saved a lot of
    memory, e.g. an entire keyword used only a single byte. With 48K
    memory available to BASIC (ISTR the C64 was limited to 32K if you
    coded in BASIC) that allowed for more sophisticated programs.

    Most BASICs converted keywords to tokens on entry. The various Microsoft BASICs did, at least, and they accounted for most of the market. As long as your typing speed is halfway decent, I suspect it's faster to type "GOSUB"
    than to have to squint at the fine print on the keyboard and press some
    weird shift combination.

    Sinclair's way of doing things, OTOH, eliminated the need for a tokenizer or scanner, which might free up a few dozen bytes in ROM. It wouldn't have
    saved any RAM.

    _/_
    / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
    (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
    \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Your Name@YourName@YourISP.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Tue Dec 18 08:23:11 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 2018-12-17 16:00:23 +0000, Scott Alfter said:

    In article <pv0v0u$uqv$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly
    useless and nothing more than toys.

    If you wanted a *real* home computer back then, you bought a Commodore system.

    ...or an Apple II.

    The problem with the Apple II as a *home* computer is that is was
    realtively expensive. That's why I used Apple II at school, but had a
    VIC20 and then C64 at home.



    Nearly all 68K Macs and some of the earlier PowerPC Macs would read
    3.5" floppies written by an Apple II without issue, and a few models
    (the various Mac LC models, or the Color Classic I have in storage)
    could also be equipped to read 5.25" floppies from an Apple II and run
    Apple II software. Was there a comparable migration path from
    Commodore's 8-bit line to the Amiga?

    There are ways to read C64 floppy disks with an Amiga, but it's not an official Commodore feature of the Amiga OS. There are also C64
    emulators that will run under AmigaOS.



    That's without even getting into which company is still a going concern
    today and which isn't. :)

    Unfortunately, Commodore was run into the ground by incompetent
    management and had nothing to do with their technology (in some ways
    the Amiga was ahead of it's time), which in some ways was ahead of it's
    time. Apple very nearly went down the same route due to the same issue.


    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Your Name@YourName@YourISP.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Tue Dec 18 08:28:16 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 2018-12-17 16:11:38 +0000, Scott Alfter said:

    In article <slrn3jcsq1dbet.hrt.andrews@sdf.lonestar.org>,
    Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.org> wrote:
    For for the extended keyboard symbols, again that was a design
    choice and in my view an elegant one - the BASIC interpreter
    essentially compiled down to byte code as you entered the program.
    That provided a few tangible benefits: execution speed was greatly
    enhanced, syntax checking was as you typed, and it saved a lot of
    memory, e.g. an entire keyword used only a single byte. With 48K
    memory available to BASIC (ISTR the C64 was limited to 32K if you
    coded in BASIC) that allowed for more sophisticated programs.

    Most BASICs converted keywords to tokens on entry. The various Microsoft BASICs did, at least, and they accounted for most of the market. As long as your typing speed is halfway decent, I suspect it's faster to type "GOSUB" than to have to squint at the fine print on the keyboard and press some
    weird shift combination.

    Sinclair's way of doing things, OTOH, eliminated the need for a tokenizer or scanner, which might free up a few dozen bytes in ROM. It wouldn't have saved any RAM.

    And it certainly did not save finger-power nor time.

    I can't recall exactly, but I think it was the 'If' statement on the
    Spectrum that required pressing *three* keys, instead of just typing
    two letter keys. Programming (in BASIC anyway) on Sinclair's garbage
    was simply tiresome, irritating, and a ridiculously stupid way of doing anything.



    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Alan Browne@bitbucket@blackhole.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Mon Dec 17 16:04:58 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 2018-12-17 14:23, Your Name wrote:
    On 2018-12-17 16:00:23 +0000, Scott Alfter said:

    In article <pv0v0u$uqv$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Your Name  <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    But even with massive improvements, those things would still be utterly
    useless and nothing more than toys.

    If you wanted a *real* home computer back then, you bought a
    Commodore system.

    ...or an Apple II.

    The problem with the Apple II as a *home* computer is that is was
    realtively expensive. That's why I used Apple II at school, but had a
    VIC20 and then C64 at home.

    Been there. The VIC20, then a TI-99, then the C64. The later proved
    quite productive, actually, for both me and my father. We had two
    floppy drives and a printer as well (daisy chain serial link).


    --
    "2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
    need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
    - unknown protester
    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Calum@com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat to comp.sys.mac.vintage,comp.sys.mac.system on Fri Dec 21 20:20:25 2018
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 17/12/2018 19:28, Your Name wrote:

    And it certainly did not save finger-power nor time.

    It did for me, I had it learned off by heart in a month or so and it was
    way quicker than typing every letter.

    I can't recall exactly, but I think it was the 'If' statement on the Spectrum that required pressing *three* keys, instead of just typing two letter keys.

    It wasn't "IF", you just had to press the "U" key for that. Yes, a
    couple of rarely-used commands required you to press more keys than they
    had letters ("LN" and "PI" are the only two I can think of), but nothing
    you'd use often.
    --- Synchronet 3.17a-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From David B.@"David B"@nomail.afraid.org to comp.sys.mac.software,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.system.osx86,comp.sys.mac.systems,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Fri Jan 11 11:19:50 2019
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage


    Can anyone here answer this malware question?

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8357144?answerId=33292686022#33292686022

    If an Apple computer has been infected with malware, when the machine is updated through Apple 'Updates', will such malware be automatically
    removed in the process, thus leaving the computer in a 'clean' condition
    once again?

    --
    David B.
    --- Synchronet 3.17c-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Tim Streater@timstreater@greenbee.net to comp.sys.mac.software,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.system.osx86,comp.sys.mac.systems,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Fri Jan 11 11:47:00 2019
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    In article <rZ_ZD.622$iO6.69@fx01.fr7>, David B. <
    B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

    Can anyone here answer this malware question?

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8357144?answerId=33292686022#33292686022

    If an Apple computer has been infected with malware, when the machine is >updated through Apple 'Updates', will such malware be automatically
    removed in the process, thus leaving the computer in a 'clean' condition >once again?

    Why are you reading that thread when it's obvious bollocks from top to
    bottom.

    --
    "I am enclosing two tickets to the first night of my new play; bring a friend.... if you have one." - GB Shaw to Churchill "Cannot possibly
    attend first night, will attend second... if there is one." - Winston Churchill, in response.
    --- Synchronet 3.17c-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From David B.@"David B"@nomail.afraid.org to comp.sys.mac.software,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.system.osx86,comp.sys.mac.systems,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Fri Jan 11 12:04:18 2019
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 11/01/2019 11:47, Tim Streater wrote:
    In article <rZ_ZD.622$iO6.69@fx01.fr7>, David B. <
    B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

    Can anyone here answer this malware question?

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8357144?answerId=33292686022#33292686022


    If an Apple computer has been infected with malware, when the machine
    is updated through Apple 'Updates', will such malware be automatically
    removed in the process, thus leaving the computer in a 'clean'
    condition once again?

    Why are you reading that thread when it's obvious bollocks from top to bottom.

    Huh? What on earth makes you suggest THAT, Tim? <frown>

    Is there something in particular with which you take issue

    --
    David B.
    --- Synchronet 3.17c-Linux NewsLink 1.110
  • From Bob Campbell@none@none.none to comp.sys.mac.software,comp.sys.mac.system,comp.sys.mac.system.osx86,comp.sys.mac.systems,comp.sys.mac.vintage on Sat Jan 12 11:15:55 2019
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 1/11/19 6:47 AM, Tim Streater wrote:
    In article <rZ_ZD.622$iO6.69@fx01.fr7>, David B. <
    B"@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

    Can anyone here answer this malware question?

    https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8357144?answerId=33292686022#33292686022


    If an Apple computer has been infected with malware, when the machine
    is updated through Apple 'Updates', will such malware be automatically
    removed in the process, thus leaving the computer in a 'clean'
    condition once again?

    Why are you reading that thread when it's obvious bollocks from top to bottom.

    The Village Idiot is "reading" that thread because HE started the thread.

    This is how The Village Idiot operates. He starts a topic on the Apple forums, then posts a link here of the type "Gee look at this really interesting thread I stumbled across. You should check it out!"

    The funny part is, The Village Idiot has done this before, with this
    same GD Apple thread, many months ago. But he is so fucking stupid he
    does not remember it.

    The Village Idiot is best ignored.

    --- Synchronet 3.17c-Linux NewsLink 1.110