Not at all. Apple's system is not a walled garden. More like an
exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off
of the club you want.
The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users
have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of
which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Not at all. Apple's system is not a walled garden. More like an
exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off
of the club you want.
The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users
have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of
which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on Android, and most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Not at all. Apple's system is not a walled garden. More like an
exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off >>>> of the club you want.
The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users
have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of
which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
Android, and
most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
That is not so.
Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party
tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on Android, and >> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
That is not so.
Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party
tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
That is not so.
Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party
tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols
like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is
expensive, or is being phased out.
MMS has no additional cost here but may contribute to the user's monthly bandwidth plan limit.
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on Android, and most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Not at all. Apple's system is not a walled garden. More like an
exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off >>>> of the club you want.
The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users
have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of
which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on Android, and >> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
That is not so.
Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party
tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
On 2023-12-09 16:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Not at all. Apple's system is not a walled garden. More like an
exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off >>>>> of the club you want.
The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users >>>> have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of >>>> which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
Android, and
most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server). >>>
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
That is not so.
Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party
tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols
like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is
expensive, or is being phased out.
MMS has no additional cost here but may contribute to the user's monthly bandwidth plan limit.
Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote
What's the problem on Android that needs to be solved in messaging?
There are two ways to look at that question, which are fundamental:
A. What's the problem when Android users interact with Android users?
B. What's the problem when Android users interact with iOS users?
If there's a problem, why don't I experience it interacting with both?
On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Not at all. Apple's system is not a walled garden. More like an
exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off >>>>> of the club you want.
The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users >>>> have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of >>>> which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on Android, and >>> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server). >>>
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
That is not so.
Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party
tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols
like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is
expensive, or is being phased out.
So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
On 09.12.23 21:05, Wally J wrote:
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on Android, and >> most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage
anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server).
Bullshit. In the US more than 50% of the installed base are iPhones.
Hence the discussion here which in most other regions of the world are absolutely irrelevant.
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
Even more bullshit. Apple devices have their own software and systems. Android not. That is the reason why Google tries to spread such an
inferior chat tool like RCS. The American market is the driving force
idiot. And stop try to spread FUD and lies.
On 09.12.23 23:04, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-12-09 16:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wroteThat is not so.
Not at all. Apple's system is not a walled garden. More like an >>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go anywhere off >>>>>> of the club you want.
The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those users >>>>> have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the people, 80% of >>>>> which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
Android, and
most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the same as iMessage >>>> anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a middleman mothership server). >>>>
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with >>>> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it. >>>
Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third party
tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient protocols >>> like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many countries it is >>> expensive, or is being phased out.
MMS has no additional cost here but may contribute to the user's monthly
bandwidth plan limit.
In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to WhatsApp.
On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Not at all. Apple's system is not a walled garden. More like an >>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go
anywhere off of the club you want.
The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those
users have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the
people, 80% of which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
Android, and most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the
same as iMessage anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a
middleman mothership server).
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating
with iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain
about it.
That is not so.
Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient
protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
not send photos or multimedia
What's the problem on Android that needs to be solved in messaging?
There are two ways to look at that question, which are fundamental:
A. What's the problem when Android users interact with Android users?
B. What's the problem when Android users interact with iOS users?
For me, no photos or any multimedia content, just plain text, unless
they use WhatsApp.
If there's a problem, why don't I experience it interacting with both?
You have free MMS. I don't.
Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient
protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
not send photos or multimedia
No, they can send photos and multimedia.
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
WhatsApp.
Eh? I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android phones
all the time - using basic message service (cell phone). Of course such
is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so there are no ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.
Bullshit. In the US more than 50% of the installed base are iPhones.
Hence the discussion here which in most other regions of the world are
absolutely irrelevant.
It is relevant for me, who don't live in the USA.
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
Even more bullshit. Apple devices have their own software and systems.
Android not. That is the reason why Google tries to spread such an
inferior chat tool like RCS. The American market is the driving force
idiot. And stop try to spread FUD and lies.
Bullshit. :-P
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to WhatsApp.
On 2023-12-10 07:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch
to WhatsApp.
Eh? I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android phones all the time - using basic message service (cell phone). Of course such
is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so there are no ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.
On 2023-12-10, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Not at all. Apple's system is not a walled garden. More like an >>>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go
anywhere off of the club you want.
The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those
users have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the
people, 80% of which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
Android, and most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the
same as iMessage anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a
middleman mothership server).
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating
with iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain
about it.
That is not so.
Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient
protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
not send photos or multimedia
No, they can send photos and multimedia.
On 10. Dec 2023 at 13:22:31 CET, ""Carlos E. R."" <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
WhatsApp.
Sorry, you are missing something:
Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.
No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging pictures) with lots of Androids :-)--
On 2023-12-10 14:29, Alan Browne wrote:[AAA]____________
On 2023-12-10 07:22, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and
can not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and
switch to WhatsApp.
Eh? I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android
phones all the time - using basic message service (cell phone). Of
course such is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so
there are no ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.
In Europe, and probably the entire world excep NA, iphone users can not
send photos to android users using imessage.
Two reasons: if MMS is available, it is expensive. And in several
countries or providers, MMS has been removed.
Eh? I send/receive photos and videos to/from people with Android phones
all the time - using basic message service (cell phone). Of course such
is covered in data plans here as part of overall "data" so there are no
ridiculous charges as one may see in Europe and elsewhere.
In Europe, and probably the entire world excep NA, iphone users can not
send photos to android users using imessage.
Two reasons: if MMS is available, it is expensive. And in several
countries or providers, MMS has been removed.
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
WhatsApp.
Sorry, you are missing something:
Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.
No WhatsApp over here and still happily communicating (and exchanging pictures) with lots of Androids :-)
I'm trying to understand the problem (as I don't have it in the states).
*The main problem appears to be a carrier-imposed fee on 'sending MMS'*
*The other problem appears to be iOS uses a primitive messaging system.* (Substituted "closed" if you have a visceral dislike to "primitive".)
One part of the problem appears to be...
1. Android users who are charged those fees can send MMS via RCS for free.
2. But iOS users can't receive them (it appears).
3. So in that respect, the problem is on the iOS recipient's side.
Another part of the problem appears to be...
A. Android users who are charged those fees can send MMS via RCS for free.
B. But Android users can't receive them unless they use an RCS messenger.
C. So in that respect, the problem is on the Android recipient's side.
Meanwhile... the third part of the problem appears to be...
a. iOS users can send "things" (e.g., pictures) via their Internet app
b. Which is no different than Telegram, Signal, Threema or WhatsApp
c. The only difference being all iPhones have that proprietary messaging
Is this an accurate summary of the problem set yet?
On 2023-12-10 18:14, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2023-12-10, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is onNot at all. Apple's system is not a walled garden. More like an >>>>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go
anywhere off of the club you want.
The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those >>>>>>> users have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the
people, 80% of which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages. >>>>>>
Android, and most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the >>>>>> same as iMessage anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a
middleman mothership server).
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating
with iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain >>>>>> about it.
That is not so.
Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient >>>>> protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
not send photos or multimedia
No, they can send photos and multimedia.
Not in Europe, not probably in most of the world. Not using imessages.
On 2023-12-11 09:19, Bernd Froehlich wrote:
On 10. Dec 2023 at 13:22:31 CET, ""Carlos E. R."" <robin_listas@es.invalid> >> wrote:
Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to >>> WhatsApp.
Sorry, you are missing something:
Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.
Certainly, but we are talking of their native messaging tool that they
are so happy about, imessages.
As I said, two reasons: in Europe, and probably most of the world except
NA, MMS which is used to send photos to non Apple users is expensive or
has been removed, it is not even available.
On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:
The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is ...
"A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging facility."
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
"A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging facility."
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
At the moment only SMS messages can be confidently sent and reliably received.
MMS has been discontinued in many territories: <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service#Decline_and_discontinuation
It is rumoured that Apple will enable RCS in their default message app in
2024 (not replacing iMessage) which is to be welcomed IMO. No doubt people will continue to use proprietary apps and protocols when they want extra features - eg e2ee.
On 2023-12-11 17:08, Dave Royal wrote:
On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:
...
The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is >> ...
"A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
facility."
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
It does if you use the Google Messages App.
"A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
facility."
Which is a sad argument. There are other means to move large files if
one avenue doesn't work. E-mail, text a link to a repository (Dropbox), e-mail a link to ... etc.
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
At the moment only SMS messages can be confidently sent and reliably
received.
MMS has been discontinued in many territories:
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service#Decline_and_discontinuation
6 countries. Oooooooohhhh the horror.
It is rumoured that Apple will enable RCS in their default message app in
No rumour. Apple have said they will.
2024 (not replacing iMessage) which is to be welcomed IMO. No doubt people >> will continue to use proprietary apps and protocols when they want extra
features - eg e2ee.
It does E2E already in some instances. But Apple is seeking a
non-3rd-party solution to E2E in RCS. https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/breaking-apple-will-support-rcs-in-2024
Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.
Countries that have discontinued MMS include:
India (BSNL; from 1 November 2015),
Philippines (SunCel, SmartCommunications, TNT; from 28 September 2018), Singapore (Singtel, M1, Starhub; from 16 November 2021),
Kazakhstan (Kcell; from 6 May 2022),
Switzerland (Swisscom, Salt Mobile; from 10 January 2023),
Germany (Vodafone; from 17 January 2023).
On 11 Dec 2023 19:25:56 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-12-11 17:08, Dave Royal wrote:
On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:
...
The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is >>> ...
"A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of >>> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
facility."
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
It does if you use the Google Messages App.
GSMA's RCS Universal Profile does not.
On 12/11/2023 2:17 PM, Larry Wolff wrote:
Countries that have discontinued MMS include: India (BSNL; from 1
November 2015), Philippines (SunCel, SmartCommunications, TNT; from 28
September 2018), Singapore (Singtel, M1, Starhub; from 16 November 2021),
Kazakhstan (Kcell; from 6 May 2022),
Switzerland (Swisscom, Salt Mobile; from 10 January 2023), Germany
(Vodafone; from 17 January 2023).
The only country that might matter in that short list is Germany.
Anyone know if Germany supports RCS now that it's the world standard?
On 2023-12-11 11:08, Dave Royal wrote:
"A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
facility."
Which is a sad argument. There are other means to move large files if
one avenue doesn't work. E-mail, text a link to a repository (Dropbox), e-mail a link to ... etc.
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
At the moment only SMS messages can be confidently sent and reliably
received.
MMS has been discontinued in many territories:
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service#Decline_and_discontinuation
6 countries.  Oooooooohhhh the horror.
It is rumoured that Apple will enable RCS in their default message app in
No rumour. Apple have said they will.
2024 (not replacing iMessage) which is to be welcomed IMO. No doubt
people
will continue to use proprietary apps and protocols when they want extra
features - eg e2ee.
It does E2E already in some instances. But Apple is seeking a non-3rd-party solution to E2E in RCS.
https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/breaking-apple-will-support-rcs-in-2024
On 2023-12-11 20:09, Dave Royal wrote:
On 11 Dec 2023 19:25:56 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2023-12-11 17:08, Dave Royal wrote:
On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:
The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is >>>> ...
"A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of >>>> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging >>>> facility."
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
It does if you use the Google Messages App.
GSMA's RCS Universal Profile does not.
Is anybody providing that in the real world?
Samsung switched to the Google version.
On 11 Dec 2023 23:51:39 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
Samsung switched to the Google version.
The GSMA RCS UP* is a set of standards for a set of features. Google's RCS implementation is not an /alternative/ to the UP, it is (IIUC) in
compliance with the UP and provides features on top, such as e2ee.
*I keep giving it that long name because 'RCS' could refer to that set of standards, Google's implementation based on those, or somebody else's service called RCS.
It is relevant for me, who don't live in the USA.
But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
Even more bullshit. Apple devices have their own software and systems.
Android not. That is the reason why Google tries to spread such an
inferior chat tool like RCS. The American market is the driving force
idiot. And stop try to spread FUD and lies.
Bullshit. :-P
but the fact
is many people use Apple devices without the *completely* *optional*
iCloud service for years without issue.
I have an iPhone SE (1st gen)
semi-permanently mounted to the windshield of my car that hasn't been
logged into iCloud for years, and it functions as a dedicated dash cam without issue.
He's a pathetic loser.
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
but the fact
is many people use Apple devices without the *completely* *optional*
iCloud service for years without issue.
Hi Jolly Roger,
While Snit & Alan Baker & Joerg are plonked, I read everything you write.
And it's clear you have absolutely no idea of how Apple does things, JR.
What you do not understand, Jolly Roger, is there are _multiple_ times you must log into an Apple device, as witnessed by the very images I provided.
For example, there's an iCloud login and there's an iMessage login, JR.
<https://i.postimg.cc/rpmJKw7p/locked-04.jpg> iCloud login
<https://i.postimg.cc/rwyGPpV9/locked-05.jpg> iMessage login
And there's plenty more, Jolly Roger, none of which are you aware of.
<https://i.postimg.cc/3NVqB4dC/nag03.jpg> Plenty of other Apple logins
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
but the fact is many people use Apple devices without the
*completely* *optional* iCloud service for years without issue.
And it's clear you have absolutely no idea of how Apple does things,
JR.
What you do not understand, Jolly Roger, is there are _multiple_ times
you must log into an Apple device, as witnessed by the very images I provided.
For example, there's an iCloud login and there's an iMessage login,
JR.
And there's plenty more, Jolly Roger, none of which are you aware of.
I have an iPhone SE (1st gen) semi-permanently mounted to the
windshield of my car that hasn't been logged into iCloud for years,
and it functions as a dedicated dash cam without issue.
uneducated
ignorant
iKooks
And it's clear you have absolutely no idea of how Apple does things,
JR.
Projection. It is *you* who has absolutely no idea how Apple devices
work.
What you do not understand, Jolly Roger, is there are _multiple_ times
you must log into an Apple device, as witnessed by the very images I
provided.
Nope. My iPhone SE hasn't asked or required a login for *years* and
continues to work just fine. You don't know what you are talking about.
You think iCloud is mandatory when it's not. You think Apple requires
you to log in, when they do not. You are a useless, know-nothing troll.
For example, there's an iCloud login and there's an iMessage login,
JR.
You caused that by logging into iCloud and iMessage, Arlen. And the fact
that you think the rest of us don't know that is pathetic. Your trolls
are as weak as your interpersonal skills.
And there's plenty more, Jolly Roger, none of which are you aware of.
More projection from the Apple-hating loser troll. You logged into that account and now like a complete moron you are complaining that your
logged-in account is asking for your credentials. How fucking dumb are
you? Pretty fucking dumb it appears.
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
And it's clear you have absolutely no idea of how Apple does things,
JR.
Projection. It is *you* who has absolutely no idea how Apple devices
work.
Hi Jolly Roger,
The unsurprising thing is you iKooks have no clue whatsoever that there's a login into the iMessage server and _another_ login into the iCloud server.
<https://i.postimg.cc/rpmJKw7p/locked-04.jpg> iCloud login
<https://i.postimg.cc/rwyGPpV9/locked-05.jpg> iMessage login
And plenty more.
<https://i.postimg.cc/3NVqB4dC/nag03.jpg> Plenty of other Apple logins
It's no longer shocking you iKooka have no idea how Apple products work.
What you do not understand, Jolly Roger, is there are _multiple_ times
you must log into an Apple device, as witnessed by the very images I
provided.
Nope. My iPhone SE hasn't asked or required a login for *years* and
continues to work just fine. You don't know what you are talking about.
Ah, but I do. I know full well what happens if you don't log into Apple servers when they ask you to "Update Apple ID settings" as shown here.
<https://i.postimg.cc/3NVqB4dC/nag03.jpg> 1 Update Apple ID settings
You think iCloud is mandatory when it's not. You think Apple requires
you to log in, when they do not. You are a useless, know-nothing troll.
I understand you better than you know yourself, Jolly Roger, so I forgive
you for lashing out at me simply for telling you the truth about Apple.
For example, there's an iCloud login and there's an iMessage login,
JR.
You caused that by logging into iCloud and iMessage, Arlen. And the fact
that you think the rest of us don't know that is pathetic. Your trolls
are as weak as your interpersonal skills.
No. You're wrong Jolly Roger. That was caused by Apple who forces you to identify yourself with a government ID if you ever stop logging into it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/7P7NCctS/locked-01.jpg> AppleID is locked by Apple
And there's plenty more, Jolly Roger, none of which are you aware of.
More projection from the Apple-hating loser troll. You logged into that
account and now like a complete moron you are complaining that your
logged-in account is asking for your credentials. How fucking dumb are
you? Pretty fucking dumb it appears.
Again, I forgive you for hating all facts about Apple products, Jolly
Roger. But you hating what Apple does doesn't change what Apple does.
It's clear you have absolutely no idea that you're continually logging into Apple servers - because if you didn't - Apple will brick your device.
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg> Apple _disables_ the device!
What you hate is that almost nothing works on Apple products if you simply choose to NOT log into Apple's mothership tracking servers every single moment of the rest of your life, Jolly Roger.
Which is why I feel sorry for you iKooks after all.
You're so _happy_ being oblivious to everything about Apple products
that you hate me (and Apple) when I prove to you what Apple does.
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
And it's clear you have absolutely no idea of how Apple does things,
JR.
Projection. It is *you* who has absolutely no idea how Apple devices
work.
you iKooks have no clue whatsoever
there's a login into the iMessage server and _another_ login into the
iCloud server.
It's no longer shocking you iKooka have no idea how Apple products
work.
Nope. My iPhone SE hasn't asked or required a login for *years* and
continues to work just fine. You don't know what you are talking
about.
Ah, but I do. I know full well what happens if you don't log into
Apple servers when they ask you to "Update Apple ID settings" as shown
here.
You think iCloud is mandatory when it's not. You think Apple requires
you to log in, when they do not. You are a useless, know-nothing
troll.
I understand you better than you know yourself
I forgive you for lashing out at me
You caused that by logging into iCloud and iMessage, Arlen. And the
fact that you think the rest of us don't know that is pathetic. Your
trolls are as weak as your interpersonal skills.
No. You're wrong Jolly Roger.
Apple who forces you to identify yourself with a government ID if you
ever stop logging into it.
It's clear you have absolutely no idea that you're continually logging
into Apple servers
almost nothing works on Apple products if you simply choose to NOT log
into Apple's mothership tracking servers every single moment of the
rest of your life
you iKooks have no clue whatsoever
More projection. BTW, repeating yourself isn't winning you any points,
dumb ass.
there's a login into the iMessage server and _another_ login into the
iCloud server.
Yes, bozo. That's what happens when you log into a server - it asks for
your credentials. You really are *this* fucking stupid, huh?
It's no longer shocking you iKooka have no idea how Apple products
work.
More projection. You exude weak-mindedness.
Nope. My iPhone SE hasn't asked or required a login for *years* and
continues to work just fine. You don't know what you are talking
about.
Ah, but I do. I know full well what happens if you don't log into
Apple servers when they ask you to "Update Apple ID settings" as shown
here.
No, you clearly don't know that if you hadn't logged into it in the
first place, it would never ask for your credentials.
You are truly an
idiot. You log into servers and then complain when they ask for your credentials, like a complete moron. Are you a boomer? Because you sire
think like one.
You think iCloud is mandatory when it's not. You think Apple requires
you to log in, when they do not. You are a useless, know-nothing
troll.
I understand you better than you know yourself
In your fevered dreams.
I forgive you for lashing out at me
And I hope you die soon. On that day, we'll
celebrate with a drink here, because the world will instantly become a
bit brighter due to your absence. Count on that.
You caused that by logging into iCloud and iMessage. And the
fact that you think the rest of us don't know that is pathetic. Your
trolls are as weak as your interpersonal skills.
No. You're wrong Jolly Roger.
Nope, I'm right. And I have a years-old 1st generation iPhone SE right
here that is living proof. I haven't been asked to log into *any* Apple servers for literal *years*. You *desperately* want to pretend this
isn't the case, but it is. And nothing you can ever say will change this reality.
Apple who forces you to identify yourself with a government ID if you
ever stop logging into it.
Nope. You already admitted you never logged out and then forgot your credentials, like the complete idiot you are.
It's clear you have absolutely no idea that you're continually logging
into Apple servers
It's clear you *desperately* want to pretend my iPhone SE hasn't been
logged into an Apple server in many years and works just fine.
You also
comically don't remember you already admitted staying logged into Apple servers then forgetting your own username and password, before turning
around and claiming Apple fucked you like the complete jackass you are.
And you apparently think the rest of us don't remember that too.
Dementia is setting in, eh?
almost nothing works on Apple products if you simply choose to NOT log
into Apple's mothership tracking servers every single moment of the
rest of your life
Objectively and laughably false.
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
you iKooks have no clue whatsoever
More projection. BTW, repeating yourself isn't winning you any points,
dumb ass.
You call me a "dumb ass" merely because I showed you were ignorant that
Apple requires _multiple_ logins into multiple servers, and if you do not frequently log into those mothership servers, Apple will brick the device.
On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
*ROTFLSTC*
The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
what they are in Europe or Asia.
The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
what they are in Europe or Asia.
Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
the cheap plans?
On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with >>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
*ROTFLSTC*
The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
what they are in Europe or Asia.
Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
the cheap plans?
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
you iKooks have no clue whatsoever
More projection. BTW, repeating yourself isn't winning you any
points, dumb ass.
You call me a "dumb ass" merely because I showed you were ignorant
that Apple requires _multiple_ logins into multiple servers
You call me a "dumb ass" merely because I showed you were ignorant
that Apple requires _multiple_ logins into multiple servers
No, you're a dumb ass for signing into servers and then complaining when
the servers ask you to verify your credentials.
If you don't sign in,
you don't get asked for your credentials, idiot.
You have to be a boomer.
There's no other explanation. Also, stop bitching and moaning about
insults when every single post you make here for the past decade calls
Apple users "iKooks" and worse, you fucking crybaby.
On 13 Dec 2023 08:58:11 -0500 Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very >>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with >>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
*ROTFLSTC*
The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
what they are in Europe or Asia.
Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
the cheap plans?
Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data: typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of
data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
£0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
You call me a "dumb ass" merely because I showed you were ignorant
that Apple requires _multiple_ logins into multiple servers
No, you're a dumb ass for signing into servers and then complaining
when the servers ask you to verify your credentials.
Hi Jolly Roger,
I've tested it. You haven't.
In fact, I've tested it, on purpose, for years.
You haven't tested it for one second.
So I respectfully say you don't know what you're talking about, JR.
While Apple brags (rightly so) about how "great" their "integration"
is, what Apple doesn't brag about is that nothing works unless you're constantly logging into Apple's many mothership tracking servers.
If you don't sign in, you don't get asked for your credentials,
idiot.
Jolly Roger, Stop trying to insult my intelligence because it's you
who couldn't pass your GED exam (you said you tried three times and
failed); so just stop it.
I know your IQ better than you do, Jolly Roger.
I know you're _desperate_ for me to just go away.
These morons have no idea that the very fact that all they have are kindergarten insults - says so much about them instead of about me.
Because I study you rather strange iKooks.
You don't even know the difference between a megabit and a decibel,
JR. You proved that many times - and if you deny it - I'll provide
cites.
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
You call me a "dumb ass" merely because I showed you were ignorant
that Apple requires _multiple_ logins into multiple servers
No, you're a dumb ass for signing into servers and then complaining when
the servers ask you to verify your credentials.
Hi Jolly Roger,
I've tested it. You haven't.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg> Apple _locks_ you out!
In fact, I've tested it, on purpose, for years.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg> Apple tracks your activity
You haven't tested it for one second.
<https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg> Apps become non functional
So I respectfully say you don't know what you're talking about, JR.
I do.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg> Apple _forces_ extra logins!
Meanwhile, I tested it also on Android, and guess what! No ID needed.
<https://i.postimg.cc/NG5pHyBx/aurora10.jpg> No need for a Google Account
On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with >>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
*ROTFLSTC*
The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
what they are in Europe or Asia.
Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
the cheap plans?
Amazing. Here (Canada) an unlimited contract with a paltry 3 - 5 GB of
data is on the order of $40+tax/month. This would be a bring-your-own
phone annual deal.
Am 13.12.23 um 14:58 schrieb Alan Browne:
On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very >>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat
with
images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
*ROTFLSTC*
The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
what they are in Europe or Asia.
Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
the cheap plans?
There are no MMS anymore in Europe. At least in the majority of the
markets. The quality and reliability of MMS is so inferior, that nobody
used them anymore for years. Hence most providers stopped the serivce.
I've tested it. You haven't.
My iPhone SE that has been functioning perfectly without being signed
into Apple's servers is living proof I *have* tested it.
Your crippled device is proof that you:
1. signed into Apple servers
2. forgot your credentials
3. got locked out of Apple services as a result of your stupidity
4. turned around and blamed Apple like the dip shit boomer you are
5. lied about it in order to troll the Apple newsgroups
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote
I've tested it. You haven't.
My iPhone SE that has been functioning perfectly without being signed
into Apple's servers is living proof I *have* tested it.
Hi Jolly Roger,
Unless you're jailbroken
If you actually _believe_ you've never "signed into Apple's servers"
it's going to be difficult to carry on any *adult conversation* with you.
Your crippled device is proof that you:
1. signed into Apple servers
2. forgot your credentials
3. got locked out of Apple services as a result of your stupidity
4. turned around and blamed Apple like the dip shit boomer you are
5. lied about it in order to troll the Apple newsgroups
First off, I know the credentials, so that strawman is remiss.
Second, it's not crippled so much as unilaterally bricked by Apple
simply for not constantly and repeatedly signing into Apple servers
Which I did on purpose.
On three iPads.
Just to test what Apple would do.
I just tested, and MMS is available in Movistar (Spain).
To test, I disabled RCS in phone #2. Then in phone #1 I tried to send a message. It changed the display note to "SMS". I typed "Aa" then a big smiley. Instantly, it said MMS. I did not hit send, it costs money.
| Sysop: | DaiTengu |
|---|---|
| Location: | Appleton, WI |
| Users: | 919 |
| Nodes: | 10 (1 / 9) |
| Uptime: | 52:54:43 |
| Calls: | 12,183 |
| Calls today: | 3 |
| Files: | 186,524 |
| Messages: | 2,236,267 |
