https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users- towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has limited- time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people
just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to
me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people
just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to
me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:18:25 PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people
just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to
me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today. That's no longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosing of your once-dominant position.
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:18:25 PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people
just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to
me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today. That's no longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosing of your once-dominant position.
On 2025-10-31 5:46 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:18:25 PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> >> wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people >>> just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to
me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today. That's no
longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosion of your once-dominant position.
How shocking that Windows users would grow tired of being used as lab
rats for untested updates, be forced into storing their private
information online and get annoyed at having spam delivered to their
Start menu as a result of Microsoft spying on their activities and
learning what their interests are!
On 2025-10-31 5:46 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:18:25 PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people >>> just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to
me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today.
That's no
longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosing of your once-dominant
position.
How shocking that Windows users would grow tired of being used as lab
rats for untested updates, be forced into storing their private
information online and get annoyed at having spam delivered to their
Start menu as a result of Microsoft spying on their activities and
learning what their interests are!
On 2025-10-31 12:18, Joel W. Crump wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-
towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some
people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering
an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited- time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question
to me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Every company has "limited-time support", dimwit.
Apple users are shit upon too. Maybe more so.
Come all ye unto Linux. Ye shall be saved!
Thy Sudo and thy man pages; they comfort me.
On Oct 31, 2025 at 6:57:39 PM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-10-31 5:46 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:18:25 PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10 >>>> if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people >>>> just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to >>>> me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today. That's no
longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosion of your once-dominant position.
How shocking that Windows users would grow tired of being used as lab
rats for untested updates, be forced into storing their private
information online and get annoyed at having spam delivered to their
Start menu as a result of Microsoft spying on their activities and
learning what their interests are!
Indeed. The ungrateful bastards!
But seriously. Speaking of "untested updates", I remember a quote in one of the old, business-related computer magazines, many years ago. ComputerWorld or
Datamation or something like that. The quote was from a Microsoft exec, saying
that businesses would no longer have to worry so much about Windows updates crashing business PCs because "Updates will be tested by consumers" before they get sent to businesses.
I was stunned when I read that. But it DOES explain many things.
CrudeSausage wrote on 10/31/2025 5:57 PM:
On 2025-10-31 5:46 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:18:25 PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10 >>>> if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people >>>> just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to >>>> me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today.
That's no
longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosing of your once-dominant
position.
How shocking that Windows users would grow tired of being used as lab
rats for untested updates, be forced into storing their private
information online and get annoyed at having spam delivered to their
Start menu as a result of Microsoft spying on their activities and
learning what their interests are!
Apple users are shit upon too. Maybe more so.
Come all ye unto Linux. Ye shall be saved!
Thy Sudo and thy man pages; they comfort me.
On 2025-10-31 7:30 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 6:57:39 PM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>
On 2025-10-31 5:46 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:18:25 PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10 >>>>> if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people >>>>> just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to >>>>> me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today. That's no
longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosion of your once-dominant position.
How shocking that Windows users would grow tired of being used as lab
rats for untested updates, be forced into storing their private
information online and get annoyed at having spam delivered to their
Start menu as a result of Microsoft spying on their activities and
learning what their interests are!
Indeed. The ungrateful bastards!
But seriously. Speaking of "untested updates", I remember a quote in one of >> the old, business-related computer magazines, many years ago. ComputerWorld or
Datamation or something like that. The quote was from a Microsoft exec, saying
that businesses would no longer have to worry so much about Windows updates >> crashing business PCs because "Updates will be tested by consumers" before >> they get sent to businesses.
I was stunned when I read that. But it DOES explain many things.
I can't imagine a company saying that with a straight face. They're
basically admitting that we are of no importance to them.
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-
towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some
people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering
an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited- time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question
to me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Every company has "limited-time support", dimwit.
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people
just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to
me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today. That's no longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosing of your once-dominant position.
On 2025-10-31 5:46 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:18:25 PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com> >> wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people >>> just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to
me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today. That's no
longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosing of your once-dominant position.
How shocking that Windows users would grow tired of being used as lab
rats for untested updates, be forced into storing their private
information online and get annoyed at having spam delivered to their
Start menu as a result of Microsoft spying on their activities and
learning what their interests are!
On 2025-10-31 5:46 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:18:25 PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump""
<joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-
users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10
if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people >>> just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to
me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today.
That's no
longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosing of your once-dominant
position.
How shocking that Windows users would grow tired of being used as lab
rats for untested updates, be forced into storing their private
information online and get annoyed at having spam delivered to their
Start menu as a result of Microsoft spying on their activities and
learning what their interests are!
Apple users are already running Unix. No need for Linux.
Global desktop OS share (2025 approx.):
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:57:39 PM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote <D9bNQ.1455698$ctz9.1304737@fx16.iad>:
On 2025-10-31 5:46 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:18:25 PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10 >>>> if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people >>>> just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to >>>> me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today. That's no
longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosing of your once-dominant position.
How shocking that Windows users would grow tired of being used as lab
rats for untested updates, be forced into storing their private
information online and get annoyed at having spam delivered to their
Start menu as a result of Microsoft spying on their activities and
learning what their interests are!
Global desktop OS share (2025 approx.):
* Windows ~71%
* macOS ~10–15%
* Linux ~4%
* Chrome OS & others ~1–2%
* Remainder (~8–15%) = older OSes, niche systems, measurement gaps
Of the ones KNOWN, Windows still has about 81% share. Hardly suffering.
On Oct 31, 2025 at 11:20:25 PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:57:39 PM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote
<D9bNQ.1455698$ctz9.1304737@fx16.iad>:
On 2025-10-31 5:46 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 3:18:25 PM EDT, ""Joel W. Crump"" <joelcrump@gmail.com>
wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users-towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to Win10 >>>>> if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some people >>>>> just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering an
alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited-time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question to >>>>> me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Windows "dominance" is down from 95% twenty years ago to 64% today. That's no
longer dominance. That's 20 years of erosing of your once-dominant position.
How shocking that Windows users would grow tired of being used as lab
rats for untested updates, be forced into storing their private
information online and get annoyed at having spam delivered to their
Start menu as a result of Microsoft spying on their activities and
learning what their interests are!
Global desktop OS share (2025 approx.):
* Windows ~71%
* macOS ~10–15%
* Linux ~4%
* Chrome OS & others ~1–2%
* Remainder (~8–15%) = older OSes, niche systems, measurement gaps
Of the ones KNOWN, Windows still has about 81% share. Hardly suffering.
Source?
On 01 Nov 2025 03:20:25 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
Global desktop OS share (2025 approx.):
Doesn’t include workstations, though, does it.
On Oct 31, 2025 at 9:24:51 PM MST, "Tyrone" wrote
Source?
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
On 10/31/2025 3:32 PM, Alan wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-
users- towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump >>>
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to
Win10 if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some
people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for considering
an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple which has
limited- time support and high prices. Ultimately, the big question
to me is whether this will further erode Windows' dominance.
Every company has "limited-time support", dimwit.
Linux still supports ancient hardware.
On 10/31/25 4:56 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
Apple users are shit upon too. Maybe more so.
Oh no fooling! Try to run old software or
update Mac OS on an older, perfectly functional
machine.
On 01/11/2025 00:37, T wrote:
On 10/31/25 4:56 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
Apple users are shit upon too. Maybe more so.
Oh no fooling! Try to run old software or
update Mac OS on an older, perfectly functional
machine.
Notwithstanding, I'm currently running Linux Mint 22.2 on a 24 inch iMac built in 2008.
I also have Windows XP on an old Dell tower and that still functions!
(Well, it did, the last time I tried it!)
On 01/11/2025 00:37, T wrote:
On 10/31/25 4:56 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
Apple users are shit upon too. Maybe more so.
Oh no fooling! Try to run old software or
update Mac OS on an older, perfectly functional
machine.
Notwithstanding, I'm currently running Linux Mint 22.2 on a 24 inch iMac built in 2008.
I also have Windows XP on an old Dell tower and that still functions!
(Well, it did, the last time I tried it!)
On 01/11/2025 08:29, David B. wrote:
On 01/11/2025 00:37, T wrote:
On 10/31/25 4:56 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
Apple users are shit upon too. Maybe more so.
Oh no fooling! Try to run old software or
update Mac OS on an older, perfectly functional
machine.
Notwithstanding, I'm currently running Linux Mint 22.2 on a 24 inch iMac built in 2008.
I also have Windows XP on an old Dell tower and that still functions!
(Well, it did, the last time I tried it!)
I thought I'd better try it and see!
*SHOCK*
THIS is what I saw:- https://i.ibb.co/whqjGj0y/IMG-4228.jpg
=
Follow-up set to 'alt.computer.workshop'
For further news, please visit ACW. Thank you. 🙂
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
On 2025-10-31 10:46 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
Anyone who knows the history of the Apple Lisa will remember that Apple
was quick to abandon the computer. However, hobbyists bought them at a fraction of the price and turned them into capable Macs that continued
to be sold into 1989 or so.
On 01 Nov 2025 04:40:22 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 9:24:51 PM MST, "Tyrone" wrote
Source?
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
I’m afraid you lose points for that.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-usage-is-surging-not-so-fast-heres-the-real-story/>
On 2025-10-31 10:46 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
Anyone who knows the history of the Apple Lisa will remember that Apple
was quick to abandon the computer. However, hobbyists bought them at a fraction of the price and turned them into capable Macs that continued
to be sold into 1989 or so.
On Oct 31, 2025 at 10:50:10 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote <10e472i$122qj$2@dont-email.me>:
On 01 Nov 2025 04:40:22 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 9:24:51 PM MST, "Tyrone" wrote
Source?
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
I’m afraid you lose points for that.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-usage-is-surging-not-so-fast-heres-the-real-story/>
Fair enough. Thanks.
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is still VERY popular.
On Sat, 11/1/2025 11:25 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 10:50:10 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<10e472i$122qj$2@dont-email.me>:
On 01 Nov 2025 04:40:22 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 9:24:51 PM MST, "Tyrone" wrote
Source?
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
I’m afraid you lose points for that.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-usage-is-surging-not-so-fast-heres-the-real-story/>
Fair enough. Thanks.
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is still
VERY popular.
One thing that has always impressed me, is how cost-sensitive
computer buyers are.
Say for example, you could save a penny, by accepting the 128GB hard
drive, when for that extra penny you could have 256GB.
The buyers will save the penny and accept the inferior 128GB article.
So when I see a MiniPC for $250 that runs Windows 11, and
an $800 Apple product that runs the Apple OS of the day,
what does the "one rule" predict for a result ?
If a large percentage of people are buying Apple,
then we need to actually hear from them, and discover
if they are Bill Gates in disguise, or they are loons
who have lost their mind in a poker game.
I look sometimes at items that might be $20 more and
represent an advantage to someone, and I'll hear "No, No,
I couldn't do that, that's $20 more than I have to spend".
If a person will cut their own throat for $20, imagine how
adverse they would be to spending $550 too much.
There are bodies who have the knowledge we need, like
Jon Peddle Research, who report on industry trends.
Perhaps they have acquired signal, on where this blip
is coming from. Maybe the Apple machines are being
used by AI Tech Bro ? Perhaps all the interest is in
the Studio with the 512GB max RAM config ?
On Nov 1, 2025 at 10:53:26 AM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-10-31 10:46 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
Anyone who knows the history of the Apple Lisa will remember that Apple
was quick to abandon the computer. However, hobbyists bought them at a
fraction of the price and turned them into capable Macs that continued
to be sold into 1989 or so.
Not to mention the Apple ///. Another disaster. The later units were nice. But the early models had a 100% failure rate.
At that point, Apple had 4 computers that were incompatible with each other.
Mac, Lisa, Apple 2 and Apple 3. They soon realized that was not a good strategy.
On Nov 1, 2025 at 11:50:12?AM EDT, "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:[...]
One thing that has always impressed me, is how cost-sensitive
computer buyers are.
You can say that about most consumers in general. Not just computers. But keep in mind that not everyone is poor.
So when I see a MiniPC for $250 that runs Windows 11, and
an $800 Apple product that runs the Apple OS of the day,
what does the "one rule" predict for a result ?
Apple OS of the day? It has been the same OS for 25 years. It is Unix.
If a large percentage of people are buying Apple,
then we need to actually hear from them, and discover
if they are Bill Gates in disguise, or they are loons
who have lost their mind in a poker game.
Keep in mind that not everyone is poor. Many people can actually afford something better than a $250 Windows POS box. Just like many people can afford
to spend $50,000 on a car.
I look sometimes at items that might be $20 more and
represent an advantage to someone, and I'll hear "No, No,
I couldn't do that, that's $20 more than I have to spend".
If a person will cut their own throat for $20, imagine how
adverse they would be to spending $550 too much.
It is only "$550 too much" for people who can't afford it. Keep in mind that not everyone is poor. There is no way in hell I would ever buy a $250 Windows PC. Nor would I recommend it to anyone.
There are bodies who have the knowledge we need, like
Jon Peddle Research, who report on industry trends.
Perhaps they have acquired signal, on where this blip
is coming from. Maybe the Apple machines are being
used by AI Tech Bro ? Perhaps all the interest is in
the Studio with the 512GB max RAM config ?
Or maybe it is just that many people have had enough of Windows PCs. There is also the fact that people with iPhones/iPads will be MUCH better served by a Mac than a Windows PC. I belong to both of those groups.
Plus, for $15 (the price of a Windows license) I can run Windows in a VM on my
Macs. Which I do, for the rare times I need to run Windows. Generally just to
keep up wth Windows. So the Mac is 2 computers in one.
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-
users- towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-
jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to
Win10 if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some
people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for
considering an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple
which has limited- time support and high prices. Ultimately, the
big question to me is whether this will further erode Windows'
dominance.
Every company has "limited-time support", dimwit.
Linux still supports ancient hardware.
Linux isn't a COMPANY, dimwit.
On 11/1/2025 2:14 AM, Alan wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-
users- towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-
big- jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to
Win10 if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM >>>>> requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some
people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for
considering an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend
Apple which has limited- time support and high prices. Ultimately, >>>>> the big question to me is whether this will further erode Windows'
dominance.
Every company has "limited-time support", dimwit.
Linux still supports ancient hardware.
Linux isn't a COMPANY, dimwit.
It's more than one company.And that refutes my completely accurate statement that all companies
On Sat, 11/1/2025 11:25 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 10:50:10 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<10e472i$122qj$2@dont-email.me>:
On 01 Nov 2025 04:40:22 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 9:24:51 PM MST, "Tyrone" wrote
Source?
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
I’m afraid you lose points for that.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-usage-is-surging-not-so-fast-heres-the-real-story/>
Fair enough. Thanks.
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is still
VERY popular.
One thing that has always impressed me, is how cost-sensitive
computer buyers are.
Say for example, you could save a penny, by accepting the 128GB hard
drive, when for that extra penny you could have 256GB.
The buyers will save the penny and accept the inferior 128GB article.
At one time, this was such a thing, that retail motherboard
prices were sorted in monotonic order, and adjusted so that
each motherboard was different from the other by... one dollar.
You would look on Newegg, down the page, and see this.
$127 MSI JoyRider12
$128 Asus SmelloRama
$129 Asrock Cucumber4
$130 DFI LuxPlus17
and so it would go, up to $250 or so.
Now, they don't do that any more, but in the days of excessive
supply, that's the ladder they managed to achieve. The idea
was, that buyers knew they wanted to "spend $129 and not a dollar more",
and they would end up with a Cucumber for their effort.
So when I see a MiniPC for $250 that runs Windows 11, and
an $800 Apple product that runs the Apple OS of the day,
what does the "one rule" predict for a result ?
If a large percentage of people are buying Apple,
then we need to actually hear from them, and discover
if they are Bill Gates in disguise, or they are loons
who have lost their mind in a poker game.
I look sometimes at items that might be $20 more and
represent an advantage to someone, and I'll hear "No, No,
I couldn't do that, that's $20 more than I have to spend".
If a person will cut their own throat for $20, imagine how
adverse they would be to spending $550 too much.
There are bodies who have the knowledge we need, like
Jon Peddle Research, who report on industry trends.
Perhaps they have acquired signal, on where this blip
is coming from. Maybe the Apple machines are being
used by AI Tech Bro ? Perhaps all the interest is in
the Studio with the 512GB max RAM config ?
Paul
Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 11:50:12?AM EDT, "Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:[...]
One thing that has always impressed me, is how cost-sensitive
computer buyers are.
You can say that about most consumers in general. Not just computers. But >> keep in mind that not everyone is poor.
[...]
So when I see a MiniPC for $250 that runs Windows 11, and
an $800 Apple product that runs the Apple OS of the day,
what does the "one rule" predict for a result ?
Apple OS of the day? It has been the same OS for 25 years. It is Unix.
If a large percentage of people are buying Apple,
then we need to actually hear from them, and discover
if they are Bill Gates in disguise, or they are loons
who have lost their mind in a poker game.
Keep in mind that not everyone is poor. Many people can actually afford
something better than a $250 Windows POS box. Just like many people can afford
to spend $50,000 on a car.
Note that these days, Paul's example Mini-PC of $250 is by no means a
POS.
For example, I bought my wife a Beelink EQR5 Mini-PC. AMD Ryzen 5,
16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, 5 USB ports, 2 HDMI ports, 2 GigaBit ports, Wi-Fi
6, Windows Pro, space for an extra SSD, RAM can be expanded. List price
$279 [1].
<https://www.bee-link.com/products/beelink-eqr5?variant=46822258213106>
Yes, that's more than $250, but only slightly and Beelink has other
lower (and higher) products. For $120 more (than the EQR5), you get the
EQR6 with Ryzen 7, 32GB and 1TB. (I haven't looked at the GPU
differences, not interested.) And yes, they have boxes upto $2099! :-)
I look sometimes at items that might be $20 more and
represent an advantage to someone, and I'll hear "No, No,
I couldn't do that, that's $20 more than I have to spend".
If a person will cut their own throat for $20, imagine how
adverse they would be to spending $550 too much.
It is only "$550 too much" for people who can't afford it. Keep in mind that
not everyone is poor. There is no way in hell I would ever buy a $250 Windows
PC. Nor would I recommend it to anyone.
It's not always - and probably even not most of the time - a question
of 'poor' or 'can't afford it', but about don't want to spend more than needed. I'm in the latter category. I.e. to each his own, different
strokes for different folks and all that jazz.
There are bodies who have the knowledge we need, like
Jon Peddle Research, who report on industry trends.
Perhaps they have acquired signal, on where this blip
is coming from. Maybe the Apple machines are being
used by AI Tech Bro ? Perhaps all the interest is in
the Studio with the 512GB max RAM config ?
Or maybe it is just that many people have had enough of Windows PCs. There is
also the fact that people with iPhones/iPads will be MUCH better served by a >> Mac than a Windows PC. I belong to both of those groups.
Yes, the Apple eco system has the obvious advantage of tight
integration, so if you have an Apple product, need a computer and can
and want to afford it, a Mac is the logical solution.
FWIW, I have several loved ones who are very happy with their Apple
devices (iPhones, iPads, Macs, Apple TV). I would not recommend a
Windows PC to them, not at any price.
Plus, for $15 (the price of a Windows license) I can run Windows in a VM on my
Macs. Which I do, for the rare times I need to run Windows. Generally just to
keep up wth Windows. So the Mac is 2 computers in one.
I don't do VMs. Maybe one day I will.
Take care.--
[1] I bought it locally (in The Netherlands) at a higher price (340
Euro).
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is
still VERY popular.
On 2025-11-01 11:30 a.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 10:53:26 AM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>
On 2025-10-31 10:46 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
Anyone who knows the history of the Apple Lisa will remember that Apple
was quick to abandon the computer. However, hobbyists bought them at a
fraction of the price and turned them into capable Macs that continued
to be sold into 1989 or so.
Not to mention the Apple ///. Another disaster. The later units were nice. >> But the early models had a 100% failure rate.
Apparently, it had everything to do with Steve Jobs's obsession with
devices not having fans. You would expect that they would have at least tested these units beforehand, especially since they went against the
norm of actually cooling chips.
At that point, Apple had 4 computers that were incompatible with each other. >> Mac, Lisa, Apple 2 and Apple 3. They soon realized that was not a good
strategy.
I'm just surprised that they didn't go a little further with the Apple
][ line. The gs, from what I could tell, was a rather neat device.
On 01 Nov 2025 15:25:16 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is
still VERY popular.
Given that Android alone ships as many units per year as the entire
Windows installed base ... perhaps not.
On 2025-11-01 12:01, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 11/1/2025 2:14 AM, Alan wrote:And that refutes my completely accurate statement that all companies
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-
users- towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-
big- jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit >>>>>> questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to
Win10 if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's
CPU/TPM requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to
mention some people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame
them for considering an alternative, though I find it hard to
recommend Apple which has limited- time support and high prices. >>>>>> Ultimately, the big question to me is whether this will further
erode Windows' dominance.
Every company has "limited-time support", dimwit.
Linux still supports ancient hardware.
Linux isn't a COMPANY, dimwit.
It's more than one company.
only support their products for a limited time...
...how?
On 01 Nov 2025 15:25:16 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is
still VERY popular.
Given that Android alone ships as many units per year as the entire
Windows installed base ... perhaps not.
On 2025-11-01 11:30 a.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 10:53:26 AM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>
On 2025-10-31 10:46 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
Anyone who knows the history of the Apple Lisa will remember that Apple
was quick to abandon the computer. However, hobbyists bought them at a
fraction of the price and turned them into capable Macs that continued
to be sold into 1989 or so.
Not to mention the Apple ///. Another disaster. The later units were nice. >> But the early models had a 100% failure rate.
Apparently, it had everything to do with Steve Jobs's obsession with
devices not having fans. You would expect that they would have at least tested these units beforehand, especially since they went against the
norm of actually cooling chips.
At that point, Apple had 4 computers that were incompatible with each other. >> Mac, Lisa, Apple 2 and Apple 3. They soon realized that was not a good
strategy.
I'm just surprised that they didn't go a little further with the Apple
][ line. The gs, from what I could tell, was a rather neat device.
On Nov 1, 2025 at 1:47:04 PM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-11-01 11:30 a.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 10:53:26 AM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>
On 2025-10-31 10:46 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
Anyone who knows the history of the Apple Lisa will remember that Apple >>>> was quick to abandon the computer. However, hobbyists bought them at a >>>> fraction of the price and turned them into capable Macs that continued >>>> to be sold into 1989 or so.
Not to mention the Apple ///. Another disaster. The later units were nice. >>> But the early models had a 100% failure rate.
Apparently, it had everything to do with Steve Jobs's obsession with
devices not having fans. You would expect that they would have at least
tested these units beforehand, especially since they went against the
norm of actually cooling chips.
Exactly. Not only was there no fan, but they were using the bottom of the case
(heavy cast aluminum) as the heat sink. The problem with that is obvious. With no fan, heat rises. The hot bottom (from the large power supply with no fan) was just throwing more heat on the motherboard. Hilarity ensued.
--At that point, Apple had 4 computers that were incompatible with each other.
Mac, Lisa, Apple 2 and Apple 3. They soon realized that was not a good >>> strategy.
I'm just surprised that they didn't go a little further with the Apple
][ line. The gs, from what I could tell, was a rather neat device.
I had one of those. It was fun, and the OS was certainly interesting. Sort of a combo of Apple 3 SOS and MacOS.
Alan wrote on 11/1/2025 2:19 PM:
On 2025-11-01 12:01, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 11/1/2025 2:14 AM, Alan wrote:And that refutes my completely accurate statement that all companies
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing- >>>>>>> users- towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the- >>>>>>> big- jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit >>>>>>> questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to >>>>>>> Win10 if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's
CPU/TPM requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to
mention some people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame
them for considering an alternative, though I find it hard to
recommend Apple which has limited- time support and high prices. >>>>>>> Ultimately, the big question to me is whether this will further
erode Windows' dominance.
Every company has "limited-time support", dimwit.
Linux still supports ancient hardware.
Linux isn't a COMPANY, dimwit.
It's more than one company.
only support their products for a limited time...
...how?
By now, everyone is aware that there is ONLY one company in the entire universe ... APPLE
On Nov 1, 2025 at 1:47:04 PM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-11-01 11:30 a.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 10:53:26 AM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>
On 2025-10-31 10:46 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
Anyone who knows the history of the Apple Lisa will remember that Apple >>>> was quick to abandon the computer. However, hobbyists bought them at a >>>> fraction of the price and turned them into capable Macs that continued >>>> to be sold into 1989 or so.
Not to mention the Apple ///. Another disaster. The later units were nice. >>> But the early models had a 100% failure rate.
Apparently, it had everything to do with Steve Jobs's obsession with
devices not having fans. You would expect that they would have at least
tested these units beforehand, especially since they went against the
norm of actually cooling chips.
Exactly. Not only was there no fan, but they were using the bottom of the case
(heavy cast aluminum) as the heat sink. The problem with that is obvious. With no fan, heat rises. The hot bottom (from the large power supply with no fan) was just throwing more heat on the motherboard. Hilarity ensued.
At that point, Apple had 4 computers that were incompatible with each other.
Mac, Lisa, Apple 2 and Apple 3. They soon realized that was not a good >>> strategy.
I'm just surprised that they didn't go a little further with the Apple
][ line. The gs, from what I could tell, was a rather neat device.
I had one of those. It was fun, and the OS was certainly interesting. Sort of a combo of Apple 3 SOS and MacOS.
On 2025-11-01 6:26 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 1:47:04 PM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>
On 2025-11-01 11:30 a.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 10:53:26 AM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-10-31 10:46 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
Anyone who knows the history of the Apple Lisa will remember that Apple >>>>> was quick to abandon the computer. However, hobbyists bought them at a >>>>> fraction of the price and turned them into capable Macs that continued >>>>> to be sold into 1989 or so.
Not to mention the Apple ///. Another disaster. The later units were nice.
But the early models had a 100% failure rate.
Apparently, it had everything to do with Steve Jobs's obsession with
devices not having fans. You would expect that they would have at least
tested these units beforehand, especially since they went against the
norm of actually cooling chips.
Exactly. Not only was there no fan, but they were using the bottom of the case
(heavy cast aluminum) as the heat sink. The problem with that is obvious.
With no fan, heat rises. The hot bottom (from the large power supply with no >> fan) was just throwing more heat on the motherboard. Hilarity ensued.
At that point, Apple had 4 computers that were incompatible with each other.
Mac, Lisa, Apple 2 and Apple 3. They soon realized that was not a good >>>> strategy.
I'm just surprised that they didn't go a little further with the Apple
][ line. The gs, from what I could tell, was a rather neat device.
I had one of those. It was fun, and the OS was certainly interesting. Sort >> of a combo of Apple 3 SOS and MacOS.
I imagine that anyone buying a computer in 1987 had a lot of exciting choices. If you didn't want to spend a fortune, knowing that you could
afford an Atari ST, an Amiga or an Apple IIgs must have made it a
pretty difficult choice.
I mean on the desktop / laptop.
On Nov 1, 2025 at 7:53:26AM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote <G9pNQ.94674$fBxc.71164@fx08.iad>:
On 2025-10-31 10:46 p.m., Lawrence D?Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
Anyone who knows the history of the Apple Lisa will remember that Apple
was quick to abandon the computer. However, hobbyists bought them at a fraction of the price and turned them into capable Macs that continued
to be sold into 1989 or so.
I used to own one for a while. Was given to me and then later I gave it away.
On 01 Nov 2025 20:38:41 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
I mean on the desktop / laptop.
So Windows only dominates in the market where it is dominant.
On Nov 1, 2025 at 6:19:54 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote <10e6bjp$1nkim$3@dont-email.me>:
On 01 Nov 2025 20:38:41 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
I mean on the desktop / laptop.
So Windows only dominates in the market where it is dominant.
Sure. It "dominates", in terms of market share, on the desktop.
On Nov 1, 2025 at 3:26:02 PM MST, "Tyrone" wrote <8uadnWqX9bhnFZv0nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@supernews.com>:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 1:47:04 PM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>
On 2025-11-01 11:30 a.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 10:53:26 AM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-10-31 10:46 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
Anyone who knows the history of the Apple Lisa will remember that Apple >>>>> was quick to abandon the computer. However, hobbyists bought them at a >>>>> fraction of the price and turned them into capable Macs that continued >>>>> to be sold into 1989 or so.
Not to mention the Apple ///. Another disaster. The later units were nice.
But the early models had a 100% failure rate.
Apparently, it had everything to do with Steve Jobs's obsession with
devices not having fans. You would expect that they would have at least
tested these units beforehand, especially since they went against the
norm of actually cooling chips.
Exactly. Not only was there no fan, but they were using the bottom of the case
(heavy cast aluminum) as the heat sink. The problem with that is obvious.
With no fan, heat rises. The hot bottom (from the large power supply with no >> fan) was just throwing more heat on the motherboard. Hilarity ensued.
All you had to do was drop the computer from a few inches high. Perfect design! :)
On Nov 1, 2025 at 8:50:12 AM MST, "Paul" wrote <10e5a7l$1ce4c$1@dont-email.me>:
On Sat, 11/1/2025 11:25 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 10:50:10 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<10e472i$122qj$2@dont-email.me>:
On 01 Nov 2025 04:40:22 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 9:24:51 PM MST, "Tyrone" wrote
Source?
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
I’m afraid you lose points for that.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-usage-is-surging-not-so-fast-heres-the-real-story/>
Fair enough. Thanks.
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is still >>> VERY popular.
One thing that has always impressed me, is how cost-sensitive
computer buyers are.
Say for example, you could save a penny, by accepting the 128GB hard
drive, when for that extra penny you could have 256GB.
The buyers will save the penny and accept the inferior 128GB article.
At one time, this was such a thing, that retail motherboard
prices were sorted in monotonic order, and adjusted so that
each motherboard was different from the other by... one dollar.
You would look on Newegg, down the page, and see this.
$127 MSI JoyRider12
$128 Asus SmelloRama
$129 Asrock Cucumber4
$130 DFI LuxPlus17
and so it would go, up to $250 or so.
Now, they don't do that any more, but in the days of excessive
supply, that's the ladder they managed to achieve. The idea
was, that buyers knew they wanted to "spend $129 and not a dollar more",
and they would end up with a Cucumber for their effort.
So when I see a MiniPC for $250 that runs Windows 11, and
an $800 Apple product that runs the Apple OS of the day,
what does the "one rule" predict for a result ?
If a large percentage of people are buying Apple,
then we need to actually hear from them, and discover
if they are Bill Gates in disguise, or they are loons
who have lost their mind in a poker game.
I look sometimes at items that might be $20 more and
represent an advantage to someone, and I'll hear "No, No,
I couldn't do that, that's $20 more than I have to spend".
If a person will cut their own throat for $20, imagine how
adverse they would be to spending $550 too much.
There are bodies who have the knowledge we need, like
Jon Peddle Research, who report on industry trends.
Perhaps they have acquired signal, on where this blip
is coming from. Maybe the Apple machines are being
used by AI Tech Bro ? Perhaps all the interest is in
the Studio with the 512GB max RAM config ?
Paul
It's not that Mac users can't do math or have lost their minds -- it's that they're doing different math. A $250 Windows mini might look like a bargain, but it's often a short-term fling. A Mac, even at triple the price, is built to last, stays fast for years, keeps getting updates, and actually holds value
when you're done with it.
The folks chasing those one-dollar motherboard jumps were building Franken-PCs
for fun. Mac buyers are just buying something that works and keeps working. So
sure, someone might "save" $550 on a mini-PC -- right up until they spend that
and more in time, frustration, and replacements.
On Nov 1, 2025 at 3:39:03 PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 8:50:12 AM MST, "Paul" wrote
<10e5a7l$1ce4c$1@dont-email.me>:
On Sat, 11/1/2025 11:25 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 10:50:10 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<10e472i$122qj$2@dont-email.me>:
On 01 Nov 2025 04:40:22 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 9:24:51 PM MST, "Tyrone" wrote
Source?
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
I’m afraid you lose points for that.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-usage-is-surging-not-so-fast-heres-the-real-story/>
Fair enough. Thanks.
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is still >>>> VERY popular.
One thing that has always impressed me, is how cost-sensitive
computer buyers are.
Say for example, you could save a penny, by accepting the 128GB hard
drive, when for that extra penny you could have 256GB.
The buyers will save the penny and accept the inferior 128GB article.
At one time, this was such a thing, that retail motherboard
prices were sorted in monotonic order, and adjusted so that
each motherboard was different from the other by... one dollar.
You would look on Newegg, down the page, and see this.
$127 MSI JoyRider12
$128 Asus SmelloRama
$129 Asrock Cucumber4
$130 DFI LuxPlus17
and so it would go, up to $250 or so.
Now, they don't do that any more, but in the days of excessive
supply, that's the ladder they managed to achieve. The idea
was, that buyers knew they wanted to "spend $129 and not a dollar more", >>> and they would end up with a Cucumber for their effort.
So when I see a MiniPC for $250 that runs Windows 11, and
an $800 Apple product that runs the Apple OS of the day,
what does the "one rule" predict for a result ?
If a large percentage of people are buying Apple,
then we need to actually hear from them, and discover
if they are Bill Gates in disguise, or they are loons
who have lost their mind in a poker game.
I look sometimes at items that might be $20 more and
represent an advantage to someone, and I'll hear "No, No,
I couldn't do that, that's $20 more than I have to spend".
If a person will cut their own throat for $20, imagine how
adverse they would be to spending $550 too much.
There are bodies who have the knowledge we need, like
Jon Peddle Research, who report on industry trends.
Perhaps they have acquired signal, on where this blip
is coming from. Maybe the Apple machines are being
used by AI Tech Bro ? Perhaps all the interest is in
the Studio with the 512GB max RAM config ?
Paul
It's not that Mac users can't do math or have lost their minds -- it's that >> they're doing different math. A $250 Windows mini might look like a bargain, >> but it's often a short-term fling. A Mac, even at triple the price, is built >> to last, stays fast for years, keeps getting updates, and actually holds value
when you're done with it.
The folks chasing those one-dollar motherboard jumps were building Franken-PCs
for fun. Mac buyers are just buying something that works and keeps working. So
sure, someone might "save" $550 on a mini-PC -- right up until they spend that
and more in time, frustration, and replacements.
Well stated. As always, you get what you pay for. TANSTAAFL.
Personally, I am WAY done with buying motherboards/drives/CPUs/video cards/cases/RAM/cables/fans/power supplies and then assembling it all and hope
it works. Been there done that many times.
AGAIN, not everyone is poor. Once you start making some real money, all of that shit loses the appeal it had when you were 25 and broke.
On Nov 1, 2025 at 6:51:27 PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 3:26:02 PM MST, "Tyrone" wrote
<8uadnWqX9bhnFZv0nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@supernews.com>:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 1:47:04 PM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote: >>>
On 2025-11-01 11:30 a.m., Tyrone wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 10:53:26 AM EDT, "CrudeSausage" <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2025-10-31 10:46 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:31:48 -0500, Hank Rogers wrote:
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever.
Not those Apple Lisas that ended up in that landfill ...
Anyone who knows the history of the Apple Lisa will remember that Apple >>>>>> was quick to abandon the computer. However, hobbyists bought them at a >>>>>> fraction of the price and turned them into capable Macs that continued >>>>>> to be sold into 1989 or so.
Not to mention the Apple ///. Another disaster. The later units were nice.
But the early models had a 100% failure rate.
Apparently, it had everything to do with Steve Jobs's obsession with
devices not having fans. You would expect that they would have at least >>>> tested these units beforehand, especially since they went against the
norm of actually cooling chips.
Exactly. Not only was there no fan, but they were using the bottom of the case
(heavy cast aluminum) as the heat sink. The problem with that is obvious. >>> With no fan, heat rises. The hot bottom (from the large power supply with no
fan) was just throwing more heat on the motherboard. Hilarity ensued.
All you had to do was drop the computer from a few inches high. Perfect
design! :)
YES! Apple actually recommended that to "re-seat the chips". If the chips were
so loose in the sockets that dropping it would re-seat them...
Just unbelievably poor design. Hey Steve. Sometimes you need a fan.
We had a couple Apple ///s where I worked at the time. We rigged 3" fans on the back of the cases with plastic wire ties, where there were open slots in the cases for add-in cards. They ran cool after that and we had no more problems.
Eventually we (and everyone else) moved to IBM PCs. I was lucky enough to take
home one of the Apple ///s. Mainly because no one else wanted them :-). It was
256K with 2 floppy drives and a green monitor. I later added a color monitor to it and the Titan /// + //e cards (yes it was 2 cards!), which turned it into a 128K //e with 2 floppy drives. So I had a //e and a /// in one box.
I thought I was in heaven. I had a free $5,000 computer. This was 1986 or so.
On 02 Nov 2025 01:50:53 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 6:19:54 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<10e6bjp$1nkim$3@dont-email.me>:
On 01 Nov 2025 20:38:41 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
I mean on the desktop / laptop.
So Windows only dominates in the market where it is dominant.
Sure. It "dominates", in terms of market share, on the desktop.
Yeah, but the “desktop” has to exclude mobile devices, and workstations, and AI work, and VFX work, and ...
On Nov 1, 2025 at 8:15:53 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote <10e6id9$1pi2t$1@dont-email.me>:
On 02 Nov 2025 01:50:53 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 6:19:54 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<10e6bjp$1nkim$3@dont-email.me>:
On 01 Nov 2025 20:38:41 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
I mean on the desktop / laptop.
So Windows only dominates in the market where it is dominant.
Sure. It "dominates", in terms of market share, on the desktop.
Yeah, but the “desktop” has to exclude mobile devices, and workstations, >> and AI work, and VFX work, and ...
It does well in the consumer marke[t].
On 02 Nov 2025 04:36:45 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 8:15:53 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<10e6id9$1pi2t$1@dont-email.me>:
On 02 Nov 2025 01:50:53 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 6:19:54 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<10e6bjp$1nkim$3@dont-email.me>:
On 01 Nov 2025 20:38:41 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
I mean on the desktop / laptop.
So Windows only dominates in the market where it is dominant.
Sure. It "dominates", in terms of market share, on the desktop.
Yeah, but the “desktop” has to exclude mobile devices, and workstations,
and AI work, and VFX work, and ...
It does well in the consumer marke[t].
Most of those are mobile devices, as previously mentioned.
On 01/11/2025 00:37, T wrote:
On 10/31/25 4:56 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
Apple users are shit upon too. Maybe more so.
Oh no fooling! Try to run old software or
update Mac OS on an older, perfectly functional
machine.
Notwithstanding, I'm currently running Linux Mint 22.2 on a 24 inch iMac built in 2008.
I also have Windows XP on an old Dell tower and that still functions!
(Well, it did, the last time I tried it!)
On Nov 1, 2025 at 10:20:25 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote <10e6pmo$1ree5$1@dont-email.me>:
On 02 Nov 2025 04:36:45 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
It does well in the consumer marke[t].
Most of those are mobile devices, as previously mentioned.
Consumer desktop... but, yeah, I am sure MS is *NOT* happy about the mobile market these days, but they have grown in the cloud market and others.
On 02 Nov 2025 05:38:12 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 10:20:25 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<10e6pmo$1ree5$1@dont-email.me>:
On 02 Nov 2025 04:36:45 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
It does well in the consumer marke[t].
Most of those are mobile devices, as previously mentioned.
Consumer desktop... but, yeah, I am sure MS is *NOT* happy about the mobile >> market these days, but they have grown in the cloud market and others.
Which is also Linux-dominated.
On Nov 1, 2025 at 3:39:03 PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 8:50:12 AM MST, "Paul" wrote
<10e5a7l$1ce4c$1@dont-email.me>:
On Sat, 11/1/2025 11:25 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
And then, for some reason, lots here say "only on ...". The fact remainsBut then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is still >>>> VERY popular.
One thing that has always impressed me, is how cost-sensitive
computer buyers are.
So when I see a MiniPC for $250 that runs Windows 11, and
an $800 Apple product that runs the Apple OS of the day,
what does the "one rule" predict for a result ?
If a large percentage of people are buying Apple,
then we need to actually hear from them, and discover
if they are Bill Gates in disguise, or they are loons
who have lost their mind in a poker game.
I look sometimes at items that might be $20 more and
represent an advantage to someone, and I'll hear "No, No,
I couldn't do that, that's $20 more than I have to spend".
If a person will cut their own throat for $20, imagine how
adverse they would be to spending $550 too much.
There are bodies who have the knowledge we need, like
Jon Peddle Research, who report on industry trends.
Perhaps they have acquired signal, on where this blip
is coming from. Maybe the Apple machines are being
used by AI Tech Bro ? Perhaps all the interest is in
the Studio with the 512GB max RAM config ?
Paul
It's not that Mac users can't do math or have lost their minds -- it's that >> they're doing different math. A $250 Windows mini might look like a bargain, >> but it's often a short-term fling. A Mac, even at triple the price, is built >> to last, stays fast for years, keeps getting updates, and actually holds value
when you're done with it.
Personally, I am WAY done with buying motherboards/drives/CPUs/video cards/cases/RAM/cables/fans/power supplies and then assembling it all and hopeThere also came a change - I think I'd say around the late 1980s; before
it works. Been there done that many times.
AGAIN, not everyone is poor. Once you start making some real money, all of that shit loses the appeal it had when you were 25 and broke.
I'm not saying this to _defend_ Windows: I personally find I don't like
the _current_ Windows, and haven't for some decades. I'm just saying
Windows is _better_ - just agreeing with Brock that it's popular - or,
at least, dominant. (And I suspect most actual _users_ are as happy with
it as users of alternatives.)
On 2025/11/2 4:14:38, Tyrone wrote:Obviously never heard of Currys, Argos, John Lewis, etc advertising a
On Nov 1, 2025 at 3:39:03 PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets"
<brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 8:50:12 AM MST, "Paul" wrote
<10e5a7l$1ce4c$1@dont-email.me>:
On Sat, 11/1/2025 11:25 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
[]
And then, for some reason, lots here say "only on ...". The fact remains that, here in the UK, the average person, wanting to buy a new desktopBut then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is still >>>>> VERY popular.
or laptop, will _only_ be offered Windows from most sources - or Apple
(and that possibly only from Apple stores, I'm not sure).
You seem to live in a different UK from me.
On 2025/11/2 4:14:38, Tyrone wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 3:39:03 PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets"
<brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 8:50:12 AM MST, "Paul" wrote
<10e5a7l$1ce4c$1@dont-email.me>:
On Sat, 11/1/2025 11:25 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
[]
And then, for some reason, lots here say "only on ...". The fact remains that, here in the UK, the average person, wanting to buy a new desktopBut then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is still >>>>> VERY popular.
or laptop, will _only_ be offered Windows from most sources - or Apple
(and that possibly only from Apple stores, I'm not sure).
I'm not saying this to _defend_ Windows: I personally find I don't like
the _current_ Windows, and haven't for some decades. I'm just saying
Windows is _better_ - just agreeing with Brock that it's popular - or,
at least, dominant. (And I suspect most actual _users_ are as happy with
it as users of alternatives.)
One thing that has always impressed me, is how cost-sensitive
computer buyers are.
[]
So when I see a MiniPC for $250 that runs Windows 11, and
an $800 Apple product that runs the Apple OS of the day,
what does the "one rule" predict for a result ?
If a large percentage of people are buying Apple,
then we need to actually hear from them, and discover
if they are Bill Gates in disguise, or they are loons
who have lost their mind in a poker game.
I look sometimes at items that might be $20 more and
represent an advantage to someone, and I'll hear "No, No,
I couldn't do that, that's $20 more than I have to spend".
If a person will cut their own throat for $20, imagine how
adverse they would be to spending $550 too much.
Conversely, there is always the seller mindset, which, when confronted
by a person with a budget of X, determines that they are going to try
their damnedest that the person will leave the store having spent X plus
5% or 10%, regardless of whether the extra buys them something that will actually benefit _that person_. It may well be that the salesperson
_thinks_ "if I was them, I'd ...", rather than just raw selling, but the effect is the same. (Of course, this applies in anything, not just
computers - cars, home appliances ...)
There are bodies who have the knowledge we need, like
Jon Peddle Research, who report on industry trends.
Perhaps they have acquired signal, on where this blip
is coming from. Maybe the Apple machines are being
used by AI Tech Bro ? Perhaps all the interest is in
the Studio with the 512GB max RAM config ?
Paul
It's not that Mac users can't do math or have lost their minds -- it's that >>> they're doing different math. A $250 Windows mini might look like a bargain,
but it's often a short-term fling. A Mac, even at triple the price, is built
to last, stays fast for years, keeps getting updates, and actually holds value
when you're done with it.
As another has said, will last until it is frustrating that Apple no
longer support it.
Though having said that, the _general_ reliability of computing
_hardware_ has improved considerably over the last few decades - to the extent that the _majority_ of cases where I've known people change
computer are now because their existing one is in some way not
supported, won't run new software, or has become _silted up_ in the
software sense, rather than actual hardware problems. With the possible exception of hard drive problems.
[]
Personally, I am WAY done with buying motherboards/drives/CPUs/videoThere also came a change - I think I'd say around the late 1980s; before
cards/cases/RAM/cables/fans/power supplies and then assembling it all and hope
it works. Been there done that many times.
AGAIN, not everyone is poor. Once you start making some real money, all of >> that shit loses the appeal it had when you were 25 and broke.
that point, you could really save money by putting together a computer yourself, by buying the above lot (including the Windows CD [this was
before alternatives really got going]). There came a point, however,
when a pre-built PC - with Windows pre-installed - actually cost less
than the cost of the parts _excluding_ the Windows licence; beyond that point, obviously, the only people left doing self-build were those who
wanted a _specific_ configuration that wasn't available from the
pre-built ranges, and enthusiasts who _liked_ doing it (an even they
would buy pre-built if their budgets were restrained, satisfying the
build urge to some extent by maybe adding some add-on card, or maybe
more RAM/HD).
I observed much the same process in home audio - in the UK, I'd say in
the mid-1970s; at the start of that period, someone wanting, say, an amplifier, or maybe a tuner, and who could use a soldering iron, could
obtain it significantly more cheaply by building it themself. There was
a brief transitional stage where you could still save by putting
together pre-built _modules_ (pre-amplifier, power stage, power supply,
the various parts of a tuner), but by the mid to late '70s, not only was
the supply of parts getting harder, it was getting cheaper to buy a
pre-built component - amplifier, tuner, etc. - or eventually a combined
box (a "hi-fi", or for those who wanted it to sound posher a "system"),
and the only ones still self-building were those who wanted the ultimate
in hi-fi (silly low distortion figures, or the "valve" [US: "toob"]
sound enthusiasts).
On 01 Nov 2025 20:38:41 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
I mean on the desktop / laptop.
So Windows only dominates in the market where it is dominant.
On Nov 1, 2025 at 3:39:03 PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 8:50:12 AM MST, "Paul" wrote
<10e5a7l$1ce4c$1@dont-email.me>:
On Sat, 11/1/2025 11:25 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 10:50:10 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<10e472i$122qj$2@dont-email.me>:
On 01 Nov 2025 04:40:22 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 31, 2025 at 9:24:51 PM MST, "Tyrone" wrote
Source?
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide
I’m afraid you lose points for that.
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-usage-is-surging-not-so-fast-heres-the-real-story/>
Fair enough. Thanks.
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is still >>>> VERY popular.
One thing that has always impressed me, is how cost-sensitive
computer buyers are.
Say for example, you could save a penny, by accepting the 128GB hard
drive, when for that extra penny you could have 256GB.
The buyers will save the penny and accept the inferior 128GB article.
At one time, this was such a thing, that retail motherboard
prices were sorted in monotonic order, and adjusted so that
each motherboard was different from the other by... one dollar.
You would look on Newegg, down the page, and see this.
$127 MSI JoyRider12
$128 Asus SmelloRama
$129 Asrock Cucumber4
$130 DFI LuxPlus17
and so it would go, up to $250 or so.
Now, they don't do that any more, but in the days of excessive
supply, that's the ladder they managed to achieve. The idea
was, that buyers knew they wanted to "spend $129 and not a dollar more", >>> and they would end up with a Cucumber for their effort.
So when I see a MiniPC for $250 that runs Windows 11, and
an $800 Apple product that runs the Apple OS of the day,
what does the "one rule" predict for a result ?
If a large percentage of people are buying Apple,
then we need to actually hear from them, and discover
if they are Bill Gates in disguise, or they are loons
who have lost their mind in a poker game.
I look sometimes at items that might be $20 more and
represent an advantage to someone, and I'll hear "No, No,
I couldn't do that, that's $20 more than I have to spend".
If a person will cut their own throat for $20, imagine how
adverse they would be to spending $550 too much.
There are bodies who have the knowledge we need, like
Jon Peddle Research, who report on industry trends.
Perhaps they have acquired signal, on where this blip
is coming from. Maybe the Apple machines are being
used by AI Tech Bro ? Perhaps all the interest is in
the Studio with the 512GB max RAM config ?
Paul
It's not that Mac users can't do math or have lost their minds -- it's that >> they're doing different math. A $250 Windows mini might look like a bargain, >> but it's often a short-term fling. A Mac, even at triple the price, is built >> to last, stays fast for years, keeps getting updates, and actually holds value
when you're done with it.
The folks chasing those one-dollar motherboard jumps were building Franken-PCs
for fun. Mac buyers are just buying something that works and keeps working. So
sure, someone might "save" $550 on a mini-PC -- right up until they spend that
and more in time, frustration, and replacements.
Well stated. As always, you get what you pay for. TANSTAAFL.
Personally, I am WAY done with buying motherboards/drives/CPUs/video cards/cases/RAM/cables/fans/power supplies and then assembling it all and hope
it works. Been there done that many times.
AGAIN, not everyone is poor. Once you start making some real money, all of that shit loses the appeal it had when you were 25 and broke.
On 11/1/25 1:29 AM, David B. wrote:
On 01/11/2025 00:37, T wrote:
On 10/31/25 4:56 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
Apple users are shit upon too. Maybe more so.
Oh no fooling! Try to run old software or
update Mac OS on an older, perfectly functional
machine.
Notwithstanding, I'm currently running Linux Mint 22.2 on a 24 inch
iMac built in 2008.
I also have Windows XP on an old Dell tower and that still functions!
(Well, it did, the last time I tried it!)
In 31 years of doing this, I have only seen one Apple go
defective. Their hardware quality is superb.
This does piss Apple user off as their perfectly
functions Mac is no longer supported and even
are blocked from updating their browsers, etc..
where I got
introduced to Lemmings though.
On Sat, 11/1/2025 5:22 AM, David B. wrote:
On 01/11/2025 08:29, David B. wrote:
On 01/11/2025 00:37, T wrote:
On 10/31/25 4:56 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
Apple users are shit upon too. Maybe more so.
Oh no fooling! Try to run old software or
update Mac OS on an older, perfectly functional
machine.
Notwithstanding, I'm currently running Linux Mint 22.2 on a 24 inch iMac built in 2008.
I also have Windows XP on an old Dell tower and that still functions!
(Well, it did, the last time I tried it!)
I thought I'd better try it and see!
*SHOCK*
THIS is what I saw:- https://i.ibb.co/whqjGj0y/IMG-4228.jpg
=
Follow-up set to 'alt.computer.workshop'
For further news, please visit ACW. Thank you. 🙂
"There is no dark side of the moon, really. Matter of fact, it’s all dark."
This is easy. It's all easy really, once you had one of these.
I had this just two days ago! The presentation is very misleading,
implying "OMG my kernellie she broke", which is not the case.
Your kernel is just fine thanks.
It's possible this is related to doing a kernel update (new kernel comes in) on
a legacy boot MSDOS partitioned disk. I did this specifically and on purpose for my test installs the other day, as a means of modeling what would happen if Mom&Pop tried to install LM222 (and others) on legacy equipment. I used
my Dell Optiplex 780 with E8400 Core2Duo for the experiment. This is an OCR of your picture, for the audience.
2.940622] Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(0,0)
2.940681] CPU: 0 PID: 1 Comm: swapper/0 Not tainted 4.19.0-22-686-pae #1 Debian 4.19.260-1
2.940726] Hardware name: Dell Computer Corporation Dimension 2400/0G1548, BIOS A02 07/31/2003
2.940773] Call Trace:
2.940825] dump_stack+0x60/0x7a
2.940869] panic+0x94/0x1e0
2.940914] mount_block_root+0x22c/0x245
2.940956] mount_root+0x76/0x7b
2.940996] prepare_namespace+0x116/0x146
2.941037] kernel_init_freeable+0x1d5/0x1e7
2.941079] ? rest_init+0x8a/0x8a
2.941118] kernel_init+0xd/0xe6
2.941158] ret_from_fork+0x2e/0x38
2.941211] Kernel Offset: 0x1d000000 from 0xc1000000 (relocation range: 0xc0000000-0xf77fdfff)
2.941263] --- [ end Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fson unknown-block(0,0) ] ---
This is what you Google on.
VFS: Unable to mount root fs <==== initramfs is missing, wants to start with initramfs filesystem
It means the initramfs is missing (it is a file with early boot environment inside it).
Consider two commands you will find bandied about in Google.
sudo update-initramfs ... # This can only work IF YOU HAVE AN initramfs FILE ...
# In this case, probabilities are high, yours is entirely missing
sudo mkinitramfs ... # This makes a file from scratch, repairing the situation
My notes file always has cryptic hints, never a full recipe.
# if using mkinitramfs, remove the -c compression option and see if that works.
I was hammering that thing, it came back "instantly" meaning it was
bailing before creating an archive with all of the materials needed with initramfs in it.
Removing the -c made the command to work and the command produced output.
*******
OK, I was chrooted in. I was hoping I would be able to easily find
a record of what I did, but while a search is running on the other
machine, I'll give you my best guess.
1) Boot a LM Live DVD or LM Live USB stick.
2) You're going to chroot in and repair the thing,
using mkinitramfs and update-grub
+-------+--------------------------------+
| MBR | /dev/sda1 Slash partition "/" | You could have a swap partition or a swap file on yours
+-------+--------------------------------+ Use "gnome-disks" after step (1) to display the disk drive
The larger partition is likely your slash. Don't mount this yet.
The procedure will use mint:mint user, up until the
chroot step, and after chroot, you are "root" and don't
need sudo. Don't panic if this procedure doesn't look
normal to you.
sudo mount /dev/sda1 /mnt # Unlike a lot of annoying tutorials, we'll just mount on top of /mnt
sudo mount --bind /dev /mnt/dev # Some web pages do these in a different order, which is broken.
sudo mount --bind /dev/pts /mnt/dev/pts # The AI told me to do this, but I "verify with results".
sudo mount --bind /proc /mnt/proc # This set of commands was sufficient
sudo mount --bind /sys /mnt/sys
# Mount EFI (if applicable)
sudo mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/boot/efi # This would be UEFI/GPT, and you're a legacy install person
# (gnome-disks picture, verify no EFI partition)
# The reason you're broken, is the legacy bit. That's why I *know* this is legacy.
# Don't need this.
sudo mount --bind /run /mnt/run # Optional like the previous run, not interested in research right now...
sudo chroot /mnt /bin/bash # Now you are changing to "root", and it is as if the OS is booted off the dead "/"
# on /dev/sda1 . Like Dorothy, you are no longer in Kansas.
cd /boot # Which amounts to /mnt/boot, the thing we're chrooted to.
ls -al # Get the kernel release number.
# I have included the following real output, as an example.
# Use your own version numbers. Notice how "initrd.img" already points to
# the *missing* initrd.img-5.15.0-91-generic . In my example, I made that
# file on Oct 30 18:06 via my repair. This is similar to what the repaired
# directory would look like.
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 261963 Nov 14 2023 config-5.15.0-91-generic drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Oct 28 04:55 grub
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 28 Oct 28 04:54 initrd.img -> initrd.img-5.15.0-91-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 299065264 Oct 30 18:06 initrd.img-5.15.0-91-generic <=== you will make one of these
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 28 Oct 28 04:43 initrd.img.old -> initrd.img-5.15.0-91-generic
-rw------- 1 root root 6273869 Nov 14 2023 System.map-5.15.0-91-generic lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 Oct 28 04:54 vmlinuz -> vmlinuz-5.15.0-91-generic
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 11615272 Nov 14 2023 vmlinuz-5.15.0-91-generic
# This is the command for the money, why we did all the work to get in here! We are root.
mkinitramfs -o /boot/initrd.img-5.15.0-91-generic 5.15.0-91-generic
# Should be a bit slow, then use this to verify it was created.
ls -al
# Now, update-grub to rebuild the boot menu and make sure the menu will work.
update-grub
# Exit chroot and then afterwards, umount the chroot set
exit
# You are no longer root. Dorothy is back in Kansas now, with her dog Toto.
sudo umount /mnt/sys /mnt/proc /mnt/dev/pts /mnt/dev /mnt # Unmounted in reverse order
df # Verify everything that should be dismounted, is dismounted (no /mnt remaining)
Shutdown or reboot, as you feel is appropriate.
We dismount things, to avoid "dirty" partitions on next boot cycle.
The above is just from memory, as I'm searching for the log (if there is one).
Paul
On 11/1/25 1:29 AM, David B. wrote:
On 01/11/2025 00:37, T wrote:
On 10/31/25 4:56 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
Apple users are shit upon too. Maybe more so.
Oh no fooling! Try to run old software or
update Mac OS on an older, perfectly functional
machine.
Notwithstanding, I'm currently running Linux Mint 22.2 on a 24 inch
iMac built in 2008.
I also have Windows XP on an old Dell tower and that still functions!
(Well, it did, the last time I tried it!)
In 31 years of doing this, I have only seen one Apple go
defective. Their hardware quality is superb.
This does piss Apple user off as their perfectly
functions Mac is no longer supported and even
are blocked from updating their browsers, etc..
Alan wrote on 10/31/2025 2:32 PM:
On 2025-10-31 12:18, Joel W. Crump wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users- towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to
Win10 if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM
requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some
people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for
considering an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple
which has limited- time support and high prices. Ultimately, the
big question to me is whether this will further erode Windows'
dominance.
Every company has "limited-time support", dimwit.
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever. And it
is the finest of all support programs. Some people say "It just works".
They aren't greedy like microsoft and linux. Apple products are
reasonably priced, often much cheaper than linux or microsoft stuff.
The best thing is they don't lock you into their software like linux and microsoft. You're free to download and install anything, not just the
shit in some goddamn "store" like microsoft does.
And there is no need for an "account" like microsoft. Apple doesn't
even have an "account", nor do they push you to get one, nor require one
to access any service or use of their product which you bought and paid
for.
It is the most wonderful computer company in the modern world.
On 02/11/2025 07:47, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/11/2 4:14:38, Tyrone wrote:Obviously never heard of Currys, Argos, John Lewis, etc advertising a
On Nov 1, 2025 at 3:39:03 PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets"
<brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 8:50:12 AM MST, "Paul" wrote
<10e5a7l$1ce4c$1@dont-email.me>:
On Sat, 11/1/2025 11:25 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
[]
And then, for some reason, lots here say "only on ...". The fact remainsBut then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows
is still
VERY popular.
that, here in the UK, the average person, wanting to buy a new desktop
or laptop, will _only_ be offered Windows from most sources - or Apple
(and that possibly only from Apple stores, I'm not sure).
You seem to live in a different UK from me.
wide selection of Apple laptops and desktops.
And that refutes my completely accurate statement that all companieshttps://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-
users- towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-
big- jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit >>>>>> questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to
Win10 if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/ >>>>>> TPM requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention
some people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for
considering an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend
Apple which has limited- time support and high prices.
Ultimately, the big question to me is whether this will further
erode Windows' dominance.
Every company has "limited-time support", dimwit.
Linux still supports ancient hardware.
Linux isn't a COMPANY, dimwit.
It's more than one company.
only support their products for a limited time...
...how?
On 1/11/2025 11:31 am, Hank Rogers wrote:Mot to exclude 3rd party software that can be manually downloaded and installed.
Alan wrote on 10/31/2025 2:32 PM:Sorry!! How does Linux "lock you into their software"??
On 2025-10-31 12:18, Joel W. Crump wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users- towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to
Win10 if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM >>>> requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some
people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for
considering an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple
which has limited- time support and high prices. Ultimately, the
big question to me is whether this will further erode Windows'
dominance.
Every company has "limited-time support", dimwit.
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever. And it >> is the finest of all support programs. Some people say "It just works".
They aren't greedy like microsoft and linux. Apple products are
reasonably priced, often much cheaper than linux or microsoft stuff.
The best thing is they don't lock you into their software like linux and
microsoft. You're free to download and install anything, not just the
shit in some goddamn "store" like microsoft does.
And there is no need for an "account" like microsoft. Apple doesn't
even have an "account", nor do they push you to get one, nor require one
to access any service or use of their product which you bought and paid
for.
It is the most wonderful computer company in the modern world.
I mean there are various breeds of Linux that I can choose to install
.... all Free, except for the Download Bytes I might use to get the system.
On those various OSs, there are various versions of Internet Suites I
can choose to install if I want. There are various Office type Suites I
can choose to install if I want. There are various Utilities I can
choose to install if I want. There are various Games I can choose to
install if I want.
How is that locking you into their software??
On 01 Nov 2025 15:25:16 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is
still VERY popular.
Given that Android alone ships as many units per year as the entire
Windows installed base ... perhaps not.
On 11/2/25 7:44 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/11/2025 11:31 am, Hank Rogers wrote:Mot to exclude 3rd party software that can be manually downloaded and installed.
Alan wrote on 10/31/2025 2:32 PM:Sorry!! How does Linux "lock you into their software"??
On 2025-10-31 12:18, Joel W. Crump wrote:
https://www.techradar.com/pro/windows-10-end-of-life-is-pushing-users- >>>>> towards-apple-mac-devices-is-it-time-for-you-to-make-the-big-jump
Not taking sides, here, just found this interesting. It's a bit
questionable given Microsoft's offer of free extended updates to
Win10 if one links their MS account. Nevertheless, Win11's CPU/TPM >>>>> requirements are a bit on the stringent side, not to mention some
people just don't like upgrading. Hard to blame them for
considering an alternative, though I find it hard to recommend Apple >>>>> which has limited- time support and high prices. Ultimately, the >>>>> big question to me is whether this will further erode Windows'
dominance.
Every company has "limited-time support", dimwit.
Not apple. They support everything they ever sold. Forever. And it >>> is the finest of all support programs. Some people say "It just works".
They aren't greedy like microsoft and linux. Apple products are
reasonably priced, often much cheaper than linux or microsoft stuff.
The best thing is they don't lock you into their software like linux and >>> microsoft. You're free to download and install anything, not just the
shit in some goddamn "store" like microsoft does.
And there is no need for an "account" like microsoft. Apple doesn't
even have an "account", nor do they push you to get one, nor require one >>> to access any service or use of their product which you bought and paid
for.
It is the most wonderful computer company in the modern world.
I mean there are various breeds of Linux that I can choose to install
.... all Free, except for the Download Bytes I might use to get the
system.
On those various OSs, there are various versions of Internet Suites I
can choose to install if I want. There are various Office type Suites I
can choose to install if I want. There are various Utilities I can
choose to install if I want. There are various Games I can choose to
install if I want.
How is that locking you into their software??
A lot of windows software can be used.
Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On 01 Nov 2025 15:25:16 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is
still VERY popular.
Given that Android alone ships as many units per year as the entire
Windows installed base ... perhaps not.
Silly comparison. Android isn't in the desktop/laptop market.
Yes, there's some overlap between laptops and tablets, but if you go there, you also go into Apple territory and I'm sure *you* don't want to
do that.
Face it, the Linux desktop/laptop market is marginal, has been for a
long time and will stay that way for a long time, for the reasons stated
over and over.
That makes you special, so don't fret and, as I've said many times,
enjoy what you have, instead of constantly bashing what you don't even
use.
On 02/11/2025 13:22, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Lawrence D?Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On 01 Nov 2025 15:25:16 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
But then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is
still VERY popular.
Given that Android alone ships as many units per year as the entire
Windows installed base ... perhaps not.
Silly comparison. Android isn't in the desktop/laptop market.
Yes, there's some overlap between laptops and tablets, but if you go there, you also go into Apple territory and I'm sure *you* don't want to
do that.
Face it, the Linux desktop/laptop market is marginal, has been for a long time and will stay that way for a long time, for the reasons stated over and over.
That makes you special, so don't fret and, as I've said many times, enjoy what you have, instead of constantly bashing what you don't even
use.
How do you categorise a Google Chromebook?
On 2025/11/2 4:14:38, Tyrone wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 3:39:03 PM EDT, "Brock McNuggets"
<brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 1, 2025 at 8:50:12 AM MST, "Paul" wrote
<10e5a7l$1ce4c$1@dont-email.me>:
On Sat, 11/1/2025 11:25 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
[]
And then, for some reason, lots here say "only on ...". The fact remains that, here in the UK, the average person, wanting to buy a new desktopBut then we do not know the real stats. Clearly, though, Windows is still >>>>> VERY popular.
or laptop, will _only_ be offered Windows from most sources - or Apple
(and that possibly only from Apple stores, I'm not sure).
I'm not saying this to _defend_ Windows: I personally find I don't like
the _current_ Windows, and haven't for some decades. I'm just saying
Windows is _better_ - just agreeing with Brock that it's popular - or,
at least, dominant. (And I suspect most actual _users_ are as happy with
it as users of alternatives.)
There are bodies who have the knowledge we need, like
Jon Peddle Research, who report on industry trends.
Perhaps they have acquired signal, on where this blip
is coming from. Maybe the Apple machines are being
used by AI Tech Bro ? Perhaps all the interest is in
the Studio with the 512GB max RAM config ?
Paul
It's not that Mac users can't do math or have lost their minds -- it's that >>> they're doing different math. A $250 Windows mini might look like a bargain,
but it's often a short-term fling. A Mac, even at triple the price, is built
to last, stays fast for years, keeps getting updates, and actually holds value
when you're done with it.
As another has said, will last until it is frustrating that Apple no
longer support it.
Though having said that, the _general_ reliability of computing
_hardware_ has improved considerably over the last few decades - to the extent that the _majority_ of cases where I've known people change
computer are now because their existing one is in some way not
supported, won't run new software, or has become _silted up_ in the
software sense, rather than actual hardware problems. With the possible exception of hard drive problems.
On 02/11/2025 00:49, Brock McNuggets wrote:
where I got
introduced to Lemmings though.
Please advise exactly what you mean by that, Brock!
On 2025-11-01 9:19 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On 01 Nov 2025 20:38:41 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
I mean on the desktop / laptop.
So Windows only dominates in the market where it is dominant.
I don't even see why people are talking about this anymore. Microsoft is currently dominating the desktop market, but it is changing rapidly.
People who work for a living and don't want to be bothered figuring out
how things work are moving to Apple, while those who care about their
privacy and understand how computers work are moving to Linux. Those who remain in Windows are those who want to game and/or don't worry about
their privacy. Yes, the numbers going to either Apple or Linux are
smaller than those who don't care, but that doesn't matter in the
slightest. The way I see it, lots of people are going to Hell and refuse
to do the minimum amount of things they need to do to avoid it. If
they're not willing to do small things to avoid an eternity of torment,
what chance is there that they would be willing to move away from Windows?
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