On 26/10/2025 23:36, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 26, 2025 at 3:38:50 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician!
Did he ever thank you?
I think not!
He'd never before met someone who had undertaken a FIVE YEAR Artificer Apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.
The training was designed to provide personnel on sea-going vessels who
could repair just about any mechanical or electrical equipment which
failed. There was a time when spare parts and/or 'Black Boxes' could NOT
be flown on board by helicopters!
Sadly, such training was scrapped quite some time ago.
https://claude.ai/share/b8b2f39c-9a71-4f8b-b0bd-073c26177229
On 27/10/2025 04:42, Gremlin wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, 23 Oct 2025 >> 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question!Ā If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to take a
photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott Arizona is even >> worse. Just a heads up.
You really ARE a bad loser, Dustin J. Cook. :-(
On Oct 27, 2025 at 3:01:49 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote <mm8u8dF4v31U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 23:36, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 26, 2025 at 3:38:50 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:Did he ever thank you?
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician! >>>
I think not!
I would be shocked if he did.
He'd never before met someone who had undertaken a FIVE YEAR Artificer
Apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.
I am not convinced he has ever had face to face interaction with anyone with any good skills. Or if he did where he would recognize and appreciate it. His ego is his biggest enemy.
The training was designed to provide personnel on sea-going vessels who
could repair just about any mechanical or electrical equipment which
failed. There was a time when spare parts and/or 'Black Boxes' could NOT
be flown on board by helicopters!
It is an amazing skill to have. Something he can only imagine. Something I could only imagine, too... so not an insult to him.
Sadly, such training was scrapped quite some time ago.
https://claude.ai/share/b8b2f39c-9a71-4f8b-b0bd-073c26177229
Your skills were very much needed and earned and impressive... but less needed
in the current time.
On 20/10/2025 11:39 pm, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/20/2025 8:08 AM, David B. wrote:Sorry. Edge on Linux?? Really??
On 20/10/2025 12:18, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 20, 2025 at 1:03:49 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mlm8n6FakjbU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 20/10/2025 06:34, Brock McNuggets wrote:
I used (and still use) Chrome as needed.
Please will you explain what you are talking about?
(I've not had my first coffee of the day yet!!!)
Thanks.
There are times Safari is not well supported by sites -- so it is
good to have a secondary browser on macOS. This has become more
rare, but it still does happen.
Oh! I see. I've always had a number of different browsers available
on all my of my computers and operating systems over the years.
Thanks.
Exactly, whether Windows or Linux, I have Firefox, Chrome and Edge.
Makes no difference.
2. How is the "Finder a joke"? Be specific... ...for once.
I couldn't believe how devoid of features it was.
What feature does it lack.
Name just one.
Windows and Linux are objectively better systems,
In what "objective" sense?
They put more thought into developing them.
That doesn't answer my question.
Apple doesn't even produce its kernel in-house, among countless
examples.
Even if that were true (it's not), how does that mean they don't put
as much thought into software development?
It might mean they put thought into something else, but you're not
even correct about it anyway.
'XNU ("X is Not Unix") is the computer operating system (OS) kernel
developed at Apple Inc. since December 1996 for use in the Mac OS X
(now macOS) operating system and released as free and open-source
software as part of the Darwin OS, which, in addition to being the
basis for macOS, is also the basis for iOS, iPadOS, watchOS,
visionOS, and tvOS.[2]'
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU>
'The XNU kernel
Developer Apple Inc.
Written in C, C++, assembly language
OS family Unix-like, Unix[1]
Working state Current
Source model Open-source
Initial release December 1996; 28 years ago'
You lose.
Read your own link. It says very clearly they imported the code from
the Mach kernel, and they had to buy out another company to get the
rights to it.
And that was more than 30 years ago.
You imagine that the kernel they're running now is the same?
Bully for you!What specs are they "behind on"?You've yet to show any "schemes".and easier to afford to boot. I sympathize with people like >>>>>>>> that, because Apple just exploits them, it's crass capitalist >>>>>>>> predatory behavior. I think it warrants a class-action lawsuit, >>>>>>>> even.You're an idiot.
And that's as "objective" a statement as any you've made.
I'm not the one falling for Apple's schemes.
They're always behind on specs while charging more for them. It's
unbelievable that people can't see that, it's right there in the
listings of choices compared to PCs.
Fewer choices doesn't mean being "behind".
As usual, you want to compare Apple's products against products made
by EVERY PC maker.
It has nothing to do with how few or many choices there are, it's the
fact that you go from 256 GB storage to 512 GB for an extra $200 or
something, it's laughable. I have 512 GB in my China-produced mini PC
that cost under $200 with Win11 Pro included!
A computer is the sum of its hardware and its software.
Some people prefer the combination that is a Mac running macOS and
they're willing to pay more to get it.
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/25/2025 9:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-23 16:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-23 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
I gave Macs a fair chance, I bought one to see it firsthand.
I almost even liked it, when it was still a novelty, I was open-
minded, but that novelty wore off fast. It's junk, crapware.
I wouldn't say that it is junk, but a PC at the same price will
allow you to do way more. The mere fact that you can play games on a
PC is a benefit regardless of whether you even use it. The Mac
technically has the power necessary to play games, but it manages to
support a much smaller library than even Linux does.
An ability that a particular consumer doesn't not use isn't really a
benefit to them.
And I would challenge you about "smaller library than [] Linux"
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust system
than macOS.
Robust in what way?
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while beingYou're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being...
community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
On 10/26/2025 1:57 PM, Alan wrote:
2. How is the "Finder a joke"? Be specific... ...for once.
I couldn't believe how devoid of features it was.
What feature does it lack.
Name just one.
I honestly don't remember, it's been since 2010 that I had an OS X/macOS computer.
On 2025-10-27 11:12, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 1:57 PM, Alan wrote:
2. How is the "Finder a joke"? Be specific... ...for once.
I couldn't believe how devoid of features it was.
What feature does it lack.
Name just one.
I honestly don't remember, it's been since 2010 that I had an OS X/macOS
computer.
Things have changed significantly since 2010 but your concerns remain. I
have to admit that I was using CTRL-Q a lot to close while I had a Mac
and I found it needlessly annoying since clicking the red button should
have accomplished the same thing.
However, I will be the first to admit--
that it didn't stop me from enjoying the platform.
<snip >
That said, I forgot to plonk you on my work computer. I shall remedy
that now.
On 2025-10-27 11:12, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 1:57 PM, Alan wrote:
2. How is the "Finder a joke"? Be specific... ...for once.
I couldn't believe how devoid of features it was.
What feature does it lack.
Name just one.
I honestly don't remember, it's been since 2010 that I had an OS X/
macOS computer.
Things have changed significantly since 2010 but your concerns remain. I have to admit that I was using CTRL-Q a lot to close while I had a Mac
and I found it needlessly annoying since clicking the red button should
have accomplished the same thing. However, I will be the first to admit
that it didn't stop me from enjoying the platform.
< snip >
That said, I forgot to plonk you on my work computer. I shall remedy
that now.
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/25/2025 9:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-23 16:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-23 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
I gave Macs a fair chance, I bought one to see it firsthand.
I almost even liked it, when it was still a novelty, I was open-
minded, but that novelty wore off fast. It's junk, crapware.
I wouldn't say that it is junk, but a PC at the same price will
allow you to do way more. The mere fact that you can play games on a >>>>> PC is a benefit regardless of whether you even use it. The Mac
technically has the power necessary to play games, but it manages to >>>>> support a much smaller library than even Linux does.
An ability that a particular consumer doesn't not use isn't really a
benefit to them.
And I would challenge you about "smaller library than [] Linux"
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust system
than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of
software available.
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while beingYou're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being...
community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.In your opinion it's better.
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/25/2025 9:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-23 16:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-23 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
I gave Macs a fair chance, I bought one to see it firsthand.
I almost even liked it, when it was still a novelty, I was open- >>>>>>> minded, but that novelty wore off fast. It's junk, crapware.
I wouldn't say that it is junk, but a PC at the same price will
allow you to do way more. The mere fact that you can play games on a >>>>>> PC is a benefit regardless of whether you even use it. The Mac
technically has the power necessary to play games, but it manages to >>>>>> support a much smaller library than even Linux does.
An ability that a particular consumer doesn't not use isn't really
a benefit to them.
And I would challenge you about "smaller library than [] Linux"
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust system
than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of
software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
In your opinion it's better.
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while beingYou're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being...
community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/25/2025 9:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-23 16:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-23 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
I gave Macs a fair chance, I bought one to see it firsthand.
I almost even liked it, when it was still a novelty, I was open- >>>>>>> minded, but that novelty wore off fast. It's junk, crapware.
I wouldn't say that it is junk, but a PC at the same price will
allow you to do way more. The mere fact that you can play games on a >>>>>> PC is a benefit regardless of whether you even use it. The Mac
technically has the power necessary to play games, but it manages to >>>>>> support a much smaller library than even Linux does.
An ability that a particular consumer doesn't not use isn't really
a benefit to them.
And I would challenge you about "smaller library than [] Linux"
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust system
than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of
software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
In your opinion it's better.Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while beingYou're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being...
community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:In your opinion it's better.
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being...
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being
community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no reason
to trust Apple considering how they censored people of different
viewpoints in the past and how they continue to gouge users who would
want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I can't help but
notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than components with the
same performance would in a store, and there is no reason for the
company to charge as much as it does.
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/25/2025 9:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-23 16:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-23 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
I gave Macs a fair chance, I bought one to see it firsthand.
I almost even liked it, when it was still a novelty, I was open- >>>>>>>> minded, but that novelty wore off fast. It's junk, crapware.
I wouldn't say that it is junk, but a PC at the same price will
allow you to do way more. The mere fact that you can play games on a >>>>>>> PC is a benefit regardless of whether you even use it. The Mac
technically has the power necessary to play games, but it manages to >>>>>>> support a much smaller library than even Linux does.
An ability that a particular consumer doesn't not use isn't really >>>>>> a benefit to them.
And I would challenge you about "smaller library than [] Linux"
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust system
than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of
software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
In your opinion it's better.
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while beingYou're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being...
community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience of
Apple make it superior for most users.
Nevertheless, there is no reason
to trust Apple considering how they censored people of different
viewpoints
in the past and how they continue to gouge users who would
want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I can't help but
notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than components with the
same performance would in a store, and there is no reason for the
company to charge as much as it does.
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/25/2025 9:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-23 16:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-23 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
I gave Macs a fair chance, I bought one to see it firsthand.
I almost even liked it, when it was still a novelty, I was open- >>>>>>>> minded, but that novelty wore off fast. It's junk, crapware.
I wouldn't say that it is junk, but a PC at the same price will
allow you to do way more. The mere fact that you can play games on a >>>>>>> PC is a benefit regardless of whether you even use it. The Mac
technically has the power necessary to play games, but it manages to >>>>>>> support a much smaller library than even Linux does.
An ability that a particular consumer doesn't not use isn't really a benefit to them.
And I would challenge you about "smaller library than [] Linux"
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust system than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
In your opinion it's better.
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being community produced.You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being...
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no reason to trust Apple considering how they censored people of different viewpoints in the past and how they continue to gouge users who would want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I can't help but notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than components with the same performance would in a store, and there is no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
On 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:In your opinion it's better.
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being... >>>>>
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no reason to trust Apple considering how they censored people of different viewpoints in the past and how they continue to gouge users who would want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I can't help but notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than components with the same performance would in a store, and there is no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
They overcharge because people will pay it, I think. I wouldn't. They have no interest in trying to compete head-to-head with MS, because they can't win that way, but they can win dollars with the people preoccupied with having their crapware.
On Mon, 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/25/2025 9:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-23 16:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-23 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
I wouldn't say that it is junk, but a PC at the same price will >>>>>>>> allow you to do way more. The mere fact that you can play games on a >>>>>>>> PC is a benefit regardless of whether you even use it. The Mac >>>>>>>> technically has the power necessary to play games, but it manages to >>>>>>>> support a much smaller library than even Linux does.
I gave Macs a fair chance, I bought one to see it firsthand. >>>>>>>>> I almost even liked it, when it was still a novelty, I was open- >>>>>>>>> minded, but that novelty wore off fast. It's junk, crapware. >>>>>>>>
An ability that a particular consumer doesn't not use isn't really a benefit to them.
And I would challenge you about "smaller library than [] Linux"
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust system than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
In your opinion it's better.
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being community produced.You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being... >>>>>
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no reason to trust Apple considering how they censored people of different viewpoints in the past and how they continue to gouge users who would want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I can't help but notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than components with the same performance would in a store, and there is no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
There was a time when you could upgrade Macs.
I changed out the disk, added more RAM (Samsung sticks)As much as I like the machine Apple sells and the convenience the
to my purchase. And that was part of the deal. I knew
in advance what I would be doing when opening the box.
That is why I bought the SKU with the single stick of RAM
in it.
I tried to upgrade the video card, but a lack of
drivers from ATI at the time, doomed the project and
after only a few weeks the card came back out of the
machine and the 9000 went back in. The new card was not
wasted though. Using soldering iron and Xacto knife,
and using a PC VBIOS image, I flashed up the card
and got five years usage of it gaming on the PC. It
was not money wasted, like the $1000 Nubus card I bought
with the DMA issue on Mac. A SuperMac card, where the
DMA circuit block needed an extra address bit to work
with my Mac at the time -- adverts don't have that
level of detail in them, you would not even think of
asking such a question. For that particular card, we
used to spend money like that, just so we could have
24-bit color on our computers :-/ And I wanted
24-bit color.
On Mon, 10/27/2025 1:03 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:In your opinion it's better.
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being... >>>>>>
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no reason to trust Apple considering how they censored people of different viewpoints in the past and how they continue to gouge users who would want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I can't help but notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than components with the same performance would in a store, and there is no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
They overcharge because people will pay it, I think. I wouldn't. They have no interest in trying to compete head-to-head with MS, because they can't win that way, but they can win dollars with the people preoccupied with having their crapware.
It's the same as the Microsoft Surface computers.
That is Microsoft attempting to duplicate the Apple ecosystem.
The Surface experience is surprisingly "un-smooth". Drivers mainly.
On 10/27/2025 12:32 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/25/2025 9:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-23 16:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-23 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
I gave Macs a fair chance, I bought one to see it firsthand.
I almost even liked it, when it was still a novelty, I was open- >>>>>>>> minded, but that novelty wore off fast. It's junk, crapware.
I wouldn't say that it is junk, but a PC at the same price will
allow you to do way more. The mere fact that you can play games on a >>>>>>> PC is a benefit regardless of whether you even use it. The Mac
technically has the power necessary to play games, but it manages to >>>>>>> support a much smaller library than even Linux does.
An ability that a particular consumer doesn't not use isn't really a benefit to them.
And I would challenge you about "smaller library than [] Linux"
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust system than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
You defend Macs like you're married to them.
In your opinion it's better.Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being community produced.You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being...
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
A lot of people don't know about Linux. And a lot of people actually like Macs, it's hard to understand, but they do.
It's an arcane preference, like maintaining a pet rock :-)
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net Sun, 26 >Oct 2025 22:38:50 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician!
You remember things incorrectly then, David. I was *already in the trade* >long before I ever met you.
On 26/10/2025 23:36, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 26, 2025 at 3:38:50?PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician!
Did he ever thank you?
I think not!
He'd never before met someone who had undertaken a FIVE YEAR Artificer >Apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 04:42:26 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin <nobody@haph.org>
wrote:
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net Sun, 26 >>Oct 2025 22:38:50 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician!
You remember things incorrectly then, David. I was *already in the trade* >>long before I ever met you.
David remembers things that didn't happen but he can't remember things
that did happen. That's a symptom of someone who isn't in a good place.
On 2025-10-27, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 04:42:26 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin <nobody@haph.org>
wrote:
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net Sun, 26 >>> Oct 2025 22:38:50 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:You remember things incorrectly then, David. I was *already in the trade* >>> long before I ever met you.
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician! >>>
David remembers things that didn't happen but he can't remember things
that did happen. That's a symptom of someone who isn't in a good place.
ROTFLMAO!!
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:01:49 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
On 26/10/2025 23:36, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 26, 2025 at 3:38:50?PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:Did he ever thank you?
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician! >>>
I think not!
He'd never before met someone who had undertaken a FIVE YEAR Artificer
Apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.
Wasn't that training program intended to be a FOUR YEAR deal? Why did it
take you FIVE YEARS?
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:01:49 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
On 26/10/2025 23:36, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 26, 2025 at 3:38:50?PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:Did he ever thank you?
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician! >>>
I think not!
He'd never before met someone who had undertaken a FIVE YEAR Artificer
Apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.
Wasn't that training program intended to be a FOUR YEAR deal?
On 2025-10-27 13:42, Paul wrote:
On Mon, 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:There was a time when you could upgrade Macs.
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/25/2025 9:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-23 16:56, CrudeSausage wrote:I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust system than macOS.
On 2025-10-23 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
I wouldn't say that it is junk, but a PC at the same price will >>>>>>>>> allow you to do way more. The mere fact that you can play games on a >>>>>>>>> PC is a benefit regardless of whether you even use it. The Mac >>>>>>>>> technically has the power necessary to play games, but it manages to >>>>>>>>> support a much smaller library than even Linux does.
I gave Macs a fair chance, I bought one to see it firsthand. >>>>>>>>>> I almost even liked it, when it was still a novelty, I was open- >>>>>>>>>> minded, but that novelty wore off fast. It's junk, crapware. >>>>>>>>>
An ability that a particular consumer doesn't not use isn't really a >>>>>>>> benefit to them.
And I would challenge you about "smaller library than [] Linux" >>>>>>>
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of software >>>>> available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
In your opinion it's better.
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being communityYou're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being... >>>>>>
produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience of
Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no reason to >>> trust Apple considering how they censored people of different viewpoints in >>> the past and how they continue to gouge users who would want more than a >>> default amount of storage or RAM. I can't help but notice that storage and >>> RAM upgrades cost most than components with the same performance would in a >>> store, and there is no reason for the company to charge as much as it does. >>
Yep, the 2017 MacBook Air I spilled coffee on allowed me to change the
SSD, as long as I bought a converter. Apple needlessly changed the
interfare to prevent people from upgrading whatever came with the machine.
I changed out the disk, added more RAM (Samsung sticks)As much as I like the machine Apple sells and the convenience the
to my purchase. And that was part of the deal. I knew
in advance what I would be doing when opening the box.
That is why I bought the SKU with the single stick of RAM
in it.
I tried to upgrade the video card, but a lack of
drivers from ATI at the time, doomed the project and
after only a few weeks the card came back out of the
machine and the 9000 went back in. The new card was not
wasted though. Using soldering iron and Xacto knife,
and using a PC VBIOS image, I flashed up the card
and got five years usage of it gaming on the PC. It
was not money wasted, like the $1000 Nubus card I bought
with the DMA issue on Mac. A SuperMac card, where the
DMA circuit block needed an extra address bit to work
with my Mac at the time -- adverts don't have that
level of detail in them, you would not even think of
asking such a question. For that particular card, we
used to spend money like that, just so we could have
24-bit color on our computers :-/ And I wanted
24-bit color.
company offers as a whole, I can't see myself spending a small fortune
to buy a machine capable of as much as I am able to do now. Even if I
spent more than I paid for this machine, I still wouldn't be able to
play a fraction of the games I have.
David remembers things that didn't happen but he can't remember things
that did happen. That's a symptom of someone who isn't in a good place.
On Mon, 10/27/2025 1:03 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:In your opinion it's better.
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being... >>>>>>
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no reason to trust Apple considering how they censored people of different viewpoints in the past and how they continue to gouge users who would want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I can't help but notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than components with the same performance would in a store, and there is no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
They overcharge because people will pay it, I think. I wouldn't. They have no interest in trying to compete head-to-head with MS, because they can't win that way, but they can win dollars with the people preoccupied with having their crapware.
It's the same as the Microsoft Surface computers.
That is Microsoft attempting to duplicate the Apple ecosystem.
The Surface experience is surprisingly "un-smooth". Drivers mainly.
On 27/10/2025 20:36, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 04:42:26 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin <nobody@haph.org>
wrote:
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net Sun, 26
Oct 2025 22:38:50 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:You remember things incorrectly then, David. I was *already in the trade* >>>> long before I ever met you.
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician! >>>>
David remembers things that didn't happen but he can't remember things
that did happen. That's a symptom of someone who isn't in a good place.
ROTFLMAO!!
Laughing at lies is what fools do, pothead.
Sad. :-(
On 27/10/2025 20:08, Kelly Phillips *LIED*
[....]
David remembers things that didn't happen but he can't remember things
that did happen. That's a symptom of someone who isn't in a good place.
I am in a magical place, thanks! ✅
On Oct 27, 2025 at 10:48:58 AM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote <egOLQ.852556$7Ika.519476@fx17.iad>:
On 2025-10-27 13:42, Paul wrote:
On Mon, 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience of >>>> Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no reason to >>>> trust Apple considering how they censored people of different viewpoints in
the past and how they continue to gouge users who would want more than a >>>> default amount of storage or RAM. I can't help but notice that storage and >>>> RAM upgrades cost most than components with the same performance would in a
store, and there is no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
There was a time when you could upgrade Macs.
Yep, the 2017 MacBook Air I spilled coffee on allowed me to change the
SSD, as long as I bought a converter. Apple needlessly changed the
interfare to prevent people from upgrading whatever came with the machine. >>
I changed out the disk, added more RAM (Samsung sticks)As much as I like the machine Apple sells and the convenience the
to my purchase. And that was part of the deal. I knew
in advance what I would be doing when opening the box.
That is why I bought the SKU with the single stick of RAM
in it.
I tried to upgrade the video card, but a lack of
drivers from ATI at the time, doomed the project and
after only a few weeks the card came back out of the
machine and the 9000 went back in. The new card was not
wasted though. Using soldering iron and Xacto knife,
and using a PC VBIOS image, I flashed up the card
and got five years usage of it gaming on the PC. It
was not money wasted, like the $1000 Nubus card I bought
with the DMA issue on Mac. A SuperMac card, where the
DMA circuit block needed an extra address bit to work
with my Mac at the time -- adverts don't have that
level of detail in them, you would not even think of
asking such a question. For that particular card, we
used to spend money like that, just so we could have
24-bit color on our computers :-/ And I wanted
24-bit color.
company offers as a whole, I can't see myself spending a small fortune
to buy a machine capable of as much as I am able to do now. Even if I
spent more than I paid for this machine, I still wouldn't be able to
play a fraction of the games I have.
Macs serve me better than the competition, but you are absolutely right it depends on your focus. I am not a gamer. No interest (or skills when I do try). Macs are NOT good gaming systems (at least from all I read).
On 27/10/2025 20:36, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 04:42:26 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin <nobody@haph.org>
wrote:
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net Sun, 26
Oct 2025 22:38:50 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:You remember things incorrectly then, David. I was *already in the trade* >>>> long before I ever met you.
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician! >>>>
David remembers things that didn't happen but he can't remember things
that did happen. That's a symptom of someone who isn't in a good place.
ROTFLMAO!!
Laughing at lies is what fools do, pothead.
Sad. :-(
On 27/10/2025 20:12, Kelly Phillips wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:01:49 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
On 26/10/2025 23:36, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 26, 2025 at 3:38:50?PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:Did he ever thank you?
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician! >>>>
I think not!
He'd never before met someone who had undertaken a FIVE YEAR Artificer
Apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.
Wasn't that training program intended to be a FOUR YEAR deal?
No. Five years, as stated.
https://thefisgardassociation.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3&Itemid=186
On 10/27/2025 4:59 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 10:48:58 AM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote
<egOLQ.852556$7Ika.519476@fx17.iad>:
On 2025-10-27 13:42, Paul wrote:
On Mon, 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience of >>>>> Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no reason to
trust Apple considering how they censored people of different viewpoints in
the past and how they continue to gouge users who would want more than a >>>>> default amount of storage or RAM. I can't help but notice that storage and
RAM upgrades cost most than components with the same performance would in a
store, and there is no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
There was a time when you could upgrade Macs.
Yep, the 2017 MacBook Air I spilled coffee on allowed me to change the
SSD, as long as I bought a converter. Apple needlessly changed the
interfare to prevent people from upgrading whatever came with the machine. >>>
I changed out the disk, added more RAM (Samsung sticks)As much as I like the machine Apple sells and the convenience the
to my purchase. And that was part of the deal. I knew
in advance what I would be doing when opening the box.
That is why I bought the SKU with the single stick of RAM
in it.
I tried to upgrade the video card, but a lack of
drivers from ATI at the time, doomed the project and
after only a few weeks the card came back out of the
machine and the 9000 went back in. The new card was not
wasted though. Using soldering iron and Xacto knife,
and using a PC VBIOS image, I flashed up the card
and got five years usage of it gaming on the PC. It
was not money wasted, like the $1000 Nubus card I bought
with the DMA issue on Mac. A SuperMac card, where the
DMA circuit block needed an extra address bit to work
with my Mac at the time -- adverts don't have that
level of detail in them, you would not even think of
asking such a question. For that particular card, we
used to spend money like that, just so we could have
24-bit color on our computers :-/ And I wanted
24-bit color.
company offers as a whole, I can't see myself spending a small fortune
to buy a machine capable of as much as I am able to do now. Even if I
spent more than I paid for this machine, I still wouldn't be able to
play a fraction of the games I have.
Macs serve me better than the competition, but you are absolutely right it >> depends on your focus. I am not a gamer. No interest (or skills when I do
try). Macs are NOT good gaming systems (at least from all I read).
As a non-gamer myself, I could choose what I really want, and a Mac just wouldn't be it, both for its software and expense.
I chose this
China-produced mini PC because of cost and available financing from
Amazon's partner, and it has really turned out well. When I destroyed
the self-assembled desktop I was really in a pinch, I had no money to
invest in something like that, and when I did a first search on Amazon
to get a feel for what was available, it had this one as a sponsored
result, and it looked pretty good, I thought I would need to replace
Win11 with Linux, but even that turned out to be only true if I were
really obsessed with performance, mostly it's just fine with Win11
(sometimes the music will pause momentarily when the CPU is tied up, but
it's minor). I would probably buy another similar model when this one's
run its course, by then the specs should be truly on par with a modest conventional machine.
On 10/27/2025 12:32 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/25/2025 9:30 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-23 16:56, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-23 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
I gave Macs a fair chance, I bought one to see it firsthand.
I almost even liked it, when it was still a novelty, I was open- >>>>>>>> minded, but that novelty wore off fast. It's junk, crapware.
I wouldn't say that it is junk, but a PC at the same price will
allow you to do way more. The mere fact that you can play games on a >>>>>>> PC is a benefit regardless of whether you even use it. The Mac
technically has the power necessary to play games, but it manages to >>>>>>> support a much smaller library than even Linux does.
An ability that a particular consumer doesn't not use isn't really >>>>>> a benefit to them.
And I would challenge you about "smaller library than [] Linux"
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust system >>>>> than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of
software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
You defend Macs like you're married to them.
In your opinion it's better.Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while beingYou're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being...
community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
A lot of people don't know about Linux. And a lot of people actuallyAnd in your narrow little mind, you think it can only be because they
like Macs, it's hard to understand, but they do.
On 2025-10-27, David B. <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:[....]
Laughing at lies is what fools do, pothead.
Sad. :-(
What's sad is the fact that I, or anyone else for that matter, can see your repetitive, childish, non technical posts ad nauseam.
Kelly is spot on.
On Oct 27, 2025 at 1:58:51 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote <mma4obFb9hkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 20:12, Kelly Phillips wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:01:49 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>
On 26/10/2025 23:36, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 26, 2025 at 3:38:50?PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:Did he ever thank you?
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician! >>>>>
I think not!
He'd never before met someone who had undertaken a FIVE YEAR Artificer >>>> Apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.
Wasn't that training program intended to be a FOUR YEAR deal?
No. Five years, as stated.
https://thefisgardassociation.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3&Itemid=186
That is what I was thinking. Maybe you shared that before? Looks familiar.
On Oct 27, 2025 at 1:55:43 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote <mma4ifFb82lU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 20:36, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 04:42:26 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin <nobody@haph.org>
wrote:
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk>
news:mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net Sun, 26 Oct 2025 22:38:50
GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an
electrician!
You remember things incorrectly then, David. I was *already in the
trade* long before I ever met you.
David remembers things that didn't happen but he can't remember
things that did happen. That's a symptom of someone who isn't in a
good place.
ROTFLMAO!!
Laughing at lies is what fools do, pothead.
Sad. :-(
Not just lies -- efforts to cause harm. You and I disagree on things,
but what we NEVER do is actively seek to cause harm for the sake of
harming. They get off on it. The harm is not a bug but a feature. The
fact you and I laugh it off and keep our spirits up is key to why they
target us so strongly.
On Oct 27, 2025 at 2:29:44 PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote <cvRLQ.608736$Tux4.103235@fx11.iad>:
On 10/27/2025 4:59 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 10:48:58 AM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote
<egOLQ.852556$7Ika.519476@fx17.iad>:
As much as I like the machine Apple sells and the convenience the
company offers as a whole, I can't see myself spending a small fortune >>>> to buy a machine capable of as much as I am able to do now. Even if I
spent more than I paid for this machine, I still wouldn't be able to
play a fraction of the games I have.
Macs serve me better than the competition, but you are absolutely right it >>> depends on your focus. I am not a gamer. No interest (or skills when I do >>> try). Macs are NOT good gaming systems (at least from all I read).
As a non-gamer myself, I could choose what I really want, and a Mac just
wouldn't be it, both for its software and expense.
That is a different view than mine ... and completely fine and valid. To each their own.
I really do not get the "religious wars" over OSs and the like.
I chose this
China-produced mini PC because of cost and available financing from
Amazon's partner, and it has really turned out well. When I destroyed
the self-assembled desktop I was really in a pinch, I had no money to
invest in something like that, and when I did a first search on Amazon
to get a feel for what was available, it had this one as a sponsored
result, and it looked pretty good, I thought I would need to replace
Win11 with Linux, but even that turned out to be only true if I were
really obsessed with performance, mostly it's just fine with Win11
(sometimes the music will pause momentarily when the CPU is tied up, but
it's minor). I would probably buy another similar model when this one's
run its course, by then the specs should be truly on par with a modest
conventional machine.
Awesome.
On Oct 27, 2025 at 1:12:29 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote <ffkvfk5mij9jd1stm5b98bqhq86h8u7t7t@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:01:49 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
On 26/10/2025 23:36, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 26, 2025 at 3:38:50?PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an
electrician!
Did he ever thank you?
I think not!
He'd never before met someone who had undertaken a FIVE YEAR
Artificer Apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.
Wasn't that training program intended to be a FOUR YEAR deal? Why did
it take you FIVE YEARS?
What makes you think it was only four years? My understanding was four
years of classroom / workshop training and then one year at sea with practical experience. I could be wrong... but you seem confident.
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust
system than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of
software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
You defend Macs like you're married to them.
What defence was offered here?
You made a claim about "robustness" and failed to back it up.
And in your narrow little mind, you think it can only be because theyIn your opinion it's better.Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while beingYou're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being... >>>>>
community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
A lot of people don't know about Linux. And a lot of people actually
like Macs, it's hard to understand, but they do.
are "brain damaged"...
On 2025-10-27, David B. <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
On 27/10/2025 20:36, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 04:42:26 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin <nobody@haph.org>
wrote:
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net Sun, 26
Oct 2025 22:38:50 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:You remember things incorrectly then, David. I was *already in the trade* >>>>> long before I ever met you.
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician! >>>>>
David remembers things that didn't happen but he can't remember things >>>> that did happen. That's a symptom of someone who isn't in a good place. >>>>
ROTFLMAO!!
Laughing at lies is what fools do, pothead.
Sad. :-(
What's sad is the fact that I, or anyone else for that matter, can see your repetitive, childish, non technical posts ad nauseam.
Kelly is spot on.
On 27/10/2025 22:10, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 1:58:51 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mma4obFb9hkU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 20:12, Kelly Phillips wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:01:49 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>>
On 26/10/2025 23:36, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 26, 2025 at 3:38:50?PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician!
Did he ever thank you?
I think not!
He'd never before met someone who had undertaken a FIVE YEAR Artificer >>>>> Apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.
Wasn't that training program intended to be a FOUR YEAR deal?
No. Five years, as stated.
https://thefisgardassociation.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3&Itemid=186
That is what I was thinking. Maybe you shared that before? Looks familiar.
It was a 'random' quick find, but tells the truth of the matter!
FYI, I was the second-ever group of apprentices to spend a year
of my training at sea.
On 10/27/2025 6:11 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 2:29:44 PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<cvRLQ.608736$Tux4.103235@fx11.iad>:
On 10/27/2025 4:59 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 10:48:58 AM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote
<egOLQ.852556$7Ika.519476@fx17.iad>:
As much as I like the machine Apple sells and the convenience the
company offers as a whole, I can't see myself spending a small fortune >>>>> to buy a machine capable of as much as I am able to do now. Even if I >>>>> spent more than I paid for this machine, I still wouldn't be able to >>>>> play a fraction of the games I have.
Macs serve me better than the competition, but you are absolutely right it >>>> depends on your focus. I am not a gamer. No interest (or skills when I do >>>> try). Macs are NOT good gaming systems (at least from all I read).
As a non-gamer myself, I could choose what I really want, and a Mac just >>> wouldn't be it, both for its software and expense.
That is a different view than mine ... and completely fine and valid. To each
their own.
I really do not get the "religious wars" over OSs and the like.
I don't have a problem with someone making a rational choice of a Mac -
it's more that you have people who are zealously pro-Apple who will
justify the expense of a higher-end machine from them. You seem to get
one with better value and use it a really long time, getting your
money's worth. Nothing bad about that.
I chose this
China-produced mini PC because of cost and available financing from
Amazon's partner, and it has really turned out well. When I destroyed
the self-assembled desktop I was really in a pinch, I had no money to
invest in something like that, and when I did a first search on Amazon
to get a feel for what was available, it had this one as a sponsored
result, and it looked pretty good, I thought I would need to replace
Win11 with Linux, but even that turned out to be only true if I were
really obsessed with performance, mostly it's just fine with Win11
(sometimes the music will pause momentarily when the CPU is tied up, but >>> it's minor). I would probably buy another similar model when this one's >>> run its course, by then the specs should be truly on par with a modest
conventional machine.
Awesome.
Yeah, I realized that I worked too hard assembling the previous one, and trying to modify it from time to time, the mini PC just has everything
plug in and you're good to go.
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, 23 Oct 2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to take a
photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott Arizona is even worse. Just a heads up.
On Oct 27, 2025 at 3:47:10 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote <mmab3eFc9v5U1@mid.individual.net>:[....]
FYI, I was the second-ever group of apprentices to spend a year
of my training at sea.
What was that like?
On Oct 27, 2025 at 3:50:37PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote <1HSLQ.1392870$ctz9.627150@fx16.iad>:
On 10/27/2025 6:11 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 2:29:44PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<cvRLQ.608736$Tux4.103235@fx11.iad>:
On 10/27/2025 4:59 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 10:48:58AM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote
<egOLQ.852556$7Ika.519476@fx17.iad>:
As much as I like the machine Apple sells and the convenience the
company offers as a whole, I can't see myself spending a small fortune >>>>> to buy a machine capable of as much as I am able to do now. Even if I >>>>> spent more than I paid for this machine, I still wouldn't be able to >>>>> play a fraction of the games I have.
Macs serve me better than the competition, but you are absolutely right it
depends on your focus. I am not a gamer. No interest (or skills when I do
try). Macs are NOT good gaming systems (at least from all I read).
As a non-gamer myself, I could choose what I really want, and a Mac just >>> wouldn't be it, both for its software and expense.
That is a different view than mine ... and completely fine and valid. To each
their own.
I really do not get the "religious wars" over OSs and the like.
I don't have a problem with someone making a rational choice of a Mac - it's more that you have people who are zealously pro-Apple who will
justify the expense of a higher-end machine from them. You seem to get
one with better value and use it a really long time, getting your
money's worth. Nothing bad about that.
I have an iPhone 16... first time I have ever gotten the newest model... and I
might be handing it down to someone in my family. If so I will get a new one two years in a row... but then likely not again for 5 years or so.
With my Macs, I have an M2 and it will likely last 7-10 years. My last one was
a 2010 (that Marek very, very kindly sent me for free).
I chose this
China-produced mini PC because of cost and available financing from
Amazon's partner, and it has really turned out well. When I destroyed >>> the self-assembled desktop I was really in a pinch, I had no money to
invest in something like that, and when I did a first search on Amazon >>> to get a feel for what was available, it had this one as a sponsored
result, and it looked pretty good, I thought I would need to replace
Win11 with Linux, but even that turned out to be only true if I were
really obsessed with performance, mostly it's just fine with Win11
(sometimes the music will pause momentarily when the CPU is tied up, but >>> it's minor). I would probably buy another similar model when this one's >>> run its course, by then the specs should be truly on par with a modest >>> conventional machine.
Awesome.
Yeah, I realized that I worked too hard assembling the previous one, and trying to modify it from time to time, the mini PC just has everything
plug in and you're good to go.
You play with multiple systems and find one that works best for you. That is how it should happen.
On 27/10/2025 23:03, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 3:47:10 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote[....]
<mmab3eFc9v5U1@mid.individual.net>:
FYI, I was the second-ever group of apprentices to spend a year
of my training at sea.
What was that like?
Dare I say *fantastic*? :-D
Interesting too. I was drafted to HMS Diamond in Chatham dockyard and
joined the ship there. On the other side of the jetty was another Daring Class destroyer, HMS Defender.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daring-class_destroyer_(1949)
I familiarised myself with my ship which was AC throughout. Within days, however, I was transferred to HMS Defender which, I was soon to
discover, was a DC ship! (That is mentioned in the Wiki!) Quite
confusing for an eager young lad!
After completing refit, we sailed for the Mediterranean, first stop Gibraltar! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar
The next five months was spent cruising the Med. and visiting just about
all the ruined cities left by the Romans. I even climbed up the Leaning
Tower of Pizza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa
and climbed on the Parthenon too!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenon . I believe both are forbidden activities nowadays.
On 27/10/2025 21:24, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, David B. <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:[....]
Laughing at lies is what fools do, pothead.
Sad. :-(
What's sad is the fact that I, or anyone else for that matter, can see your >> repetitive, childish, non technical posts ad nauseam.
Kelly is spot on.
*KELLY IS A LIAR*
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 22:38:56 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
On 27/10/2025 21:24, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, David B. <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:[....]
Laughing at lies is what fools do, pothead.
Sad. :-(
What's sad is the fact that I, or anyone else for that matter, can see your >>> repetitive, childish, non technical posts ad nauseam.
Kelly is spot on.
*KELLY IS A LIAR*
Why do you say that?
Did I catch you late in your day, after you've been drinking?
On 10/27/2025 6:18 PM, Alan wrote:
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust
system than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of
software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
You defend Macs like you're married to them.
What defence was offered here?
I suppose you were asking a reasonable question, previously, although it should be obvious what I meant about robustness, Apple takes their
followers for granted, they offer less for more.
You made a claim about "robustness" and failed to back it up.
I don't see why mentioning its UI deficiencies isn't answering the
question, although I admit if I tried a more recent Mac I might have
more detail to give you.
I was at the Apple Store today, in fact, my
mom was there to deal with a couple things with her devices, I noticed
their mouse on display appeared to only have one button, contrary to
your claim earlier.
And in your narrow little mind, you think it can only be because theyIn your opinion it's better.Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while beingYou're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being... >>>>>>
community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
A lot of people don't know about Linux. And a lot of people actually
like Macs, it's hard to understand, but they do.
are "brain damaged"...
I know that Bill Cosby is a sick piece of shit, but his old bit from the '80s named "Brain Damage" implicitly talks about this, in those days<yawn>
parents were dosing their kids with LSD (without their knowledge or
consent, of course, thanks a lot Mom and Dad), and it does fry the neurons. As an adult, I discovered MDMA, and began to heal that.
On Oct 27, 2025 at 1:12:29 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote <ffkvfk5mij9jd1stm5b98bqhq86h8u7t7t@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:01:49 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
On 26/10/2025 23:36, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 26, 2025 at 3:38:50?PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:Did he ever thank you?
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician! >>>>
I think not!
He'd never before met someone who had undertaken a FIVE YEAR Artificer
Apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.
Wasn't that training program intended to be a FOUR YEAR deal? Why did it
take you FIVE YEARS?
What makes you think it was only four years? My understanding was four years of classroom / workshop training and then one year at sea with practical experience. I could be wrong... but you seem confident.
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor Mechanic/
Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training (Trade/ Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years (Trade/ Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we
did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black
Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to
do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
On 28/10/2025 10:22, Daniel70 wrote:
[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor Mechanic/
Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training (Trade/
Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the Job
Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years (Trade/
Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the Job
Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975),
we did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled
Black Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to
do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
No doubt you, too, have always valued that start in life, Daniel!
I loved Australia. I spent two years on loan service to the RAN and was based at NAS Nowra, NSW. I also spent two months aboard HMAS Melbourne during a RIMPAC exercise which culminated with two weeks alongside in Hawaii!
Do you still live there?
On 28/10/2025 9:48 pm, David B. wrote:
On 28/10/2025 10:22, Daniel70 wrote:
[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/ Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training
(Trade/ Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On
the Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years
(Trade/ Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On
the Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975),
we did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled
Black Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had
to do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
No doubt you, too, have always valued that start in life, Daniel!
I loved Australia. I spent two years on loan service to the RAN and
was based at NAS Nowra, NSW. I also spent two months aboard HMAS
Melbourne during a RIMPAC exercise which culminated with two weeks
alongside in Hawaii!
HMAS Melbourne!! You lucky bastard!! In my time, in the Navy, people
would just about KILL to have that experience!!
Do you still live there?
Born'n'Bred in Australia. I've been round about on Holidays (UK/Europe,
SE Asia, China) but still live in Australia.
*Kelly Phillips is a disgrace to the uniform he claimed he ONCE wore*.
On 28/10/2025 7:56 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 1:12:29 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wroteWhen I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
<ffkvfk5mij9jd1stm5b98bqhq86h8u7t7t@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:01:49 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>
On 26/10/2025 23:36, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 26, 2025 at 3:38:50?PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:Did he ever thank you?
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an electrician! >>>>>
I think not!
He'd never before met someone who had undertaken a FIVE YEAR Artificer >>>> Apprenticeship in the Royal Navy.
Wasn't that training program intended to be a FOUR YEAR deal? Why did it >>> take you FIVE YEARS?
What makes you think it was only four years? My understanding was four years >> of classroom / workshop training and then one year at sea with practical
experience. I could be wrong... but you seem confident.
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the
Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the
Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we
did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black
Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to
do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the
Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the
Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we
did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black
Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to
do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
On Oct 27, 2025 at 4:26:00 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote <mmadc8FcmedU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:03, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 3:47:10 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote[....]
<mmab3eFc9v5U1@mid.individual.net>:
FYI, I was the second-ever group of apprentices to spend a year
of my training at sea.
What was that like?
Dare I say *fantastic*? :-D
Good to hear.
Interesting too. I was drafted to HMS Diamond in Chatham dockyard and
joined the ship there. On the other side of the jetty was another Daring
Class destroyer, HMS Defender.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daring-class_destroyer_(1949)
I familiarised myself with my ship which was AC throughout. Within days,
however, I was transferred to HMS Defender which, I was soon to
discover, was a DC ship! (That is mentioned in the Wiki!) Quite
confusing for an eager young lad!
Why would they have an AC one? Just the tech at the time?
After completing refit, we sailed for the Mediterranean, first stop
Gibraltar! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar
The next five months was spent cruising the Med. and visiting just about
all the ruined cities left by the Romans. I even climbed up the Leaning
Tower of Pizza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa
and climbed on the Parthenon too!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenon . I believe both are forbidden
activities nowadays.
I think so. I imagine quite the experience.
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, 23 Oct 2025 >> 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:Both are confirmed psychopaths.
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to take a
photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott Arizona is even >> worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
On 27/10/2025 23:34, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 4:26:00 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmadc8FcmedU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:03, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 3:47:10 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote[....]
<mmab3eFc9v5U1@mid.individual.net>:
FYI, I was the second-ever group of apprentices to spend a year
of my training at sea.
What was that like?
Dare I say *fantastic*? :-D
Good to hear.
🙂
Interesting too. I was drafted to HMS Diamond in Chatham dockyard and
joined the ship there. On the other side of the jetty was another Daring >>> Class destroyer, HMS Defender.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daring-class_destroyer_(1949)
I familiarised myself with my ship which was AC throughout. Within days, >>> however, I was transferred to HMS Defender which, I was soon to
discover, was a DC ship! (That is mentioned in the Wiki!) Quite
confusing for an eager young lad!
Why would they have an AC one? Just the tech at the time?
The Wiki doesn't explain?
--After completing refit, we sailed for the Mediterranean, first stop
Gibraltar! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar
The next five months was spent cruising the Med. and visiting just about >>> all the ruined cities left by the Romans. I even climbed up the Leaning
Tower of Pizza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaning_Tower_of_Pisa
and climbed on the Parthenon too!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenon . I believe both are forbidden
activities nowadays.
I think so. I imagine quite the experience.
Something NEVER forgotten!
On 28/10/2025 13:57, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the
Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the
Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we
did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black
Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to
do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
Daniel sounds like a good new recruit for ACW! ;-)
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust
system than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of
software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
You defend Macs like you're married to them.
What defence was offered here?
I suppose you were asking a reasonable question, previously, although
it should be obvious what I meant about robustness, Apple takes their
followers for granted, they offer less for more.
It's absolutely NOT obvious.
I use a Mac and it runs for months at a time.
So how is it not as "robust"?
You made a claim about "robustness" and failed to back it up.
I don't see why mentioning its UI deficiencies isn't answering the
question, although I admit if I tried a more recent Mac I might have
more detail to give you.
Because even if there were UI deficiencies, that would have nothing to
do with "robustness".
Do I have to provide you a definition/
I was at the Apple Store today, in fact, my mom was there to deal
with a couple things with her devices, I noticed their mouse on
display appeared to only have one button, contrary to your claim earlier.
You imagine that one surface can't have two areas that you can click?
How unimaginative you are.
<yawn>And in your narrow little mind, you think it can only be because theyIn your opinion it's better.Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being >>>>>>>> community produced.You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into
being...
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
A lot of people don't know about Linux. And a lot of people
actually like Macs, it's hard to understand, but they do.
are "brain damaged"...
I know that Bill Cosby is a sick piece of shit, but his old bit from
the '80s named "Brain Damage" implicitly talks about this, in those
days parents were dosing their kids with LSD (without their knowledge
or consent, of course, thanks a lot Mom and Dad), and it does fry the
neurons. As an adult, I discovered MDMA, and began to heal that.
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, 23 Oct 2025 >>> 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:Both are confirmed psychopaths.
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to take a
photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott Arizona is even
worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
On 10/28/2025 4:46 AM, Alan wrote:
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust >>>>>>>>> system than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of >>>>>>> software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
You defend Macs like you're married to them.
What defence was offered here?
I suppose you were asking a reasonable question, previously, although
it should be obvious what I meant about robustness, Apple takes their
followers for granted, they offer less for more.
It's absolutely NOT obvious.
I use a Mac and it runs for months at a time.
So how is it not as "robust"?
It has a robust internal OS, I was focusing on actually using it.
You made a claim about "robustness" and failed to back it up.
I don't see why mentioning its UI deficiencies isn't answering the
question, although I admit if I tried a more recent Mac I might have
more detail to give you.
Because even if there were UI deficiencies, that would have nothing to
do with "robustness".
Do I have to provide you a definition/
You can try, but I won't buy it.
I was at the Apple Store today, in fact, my mom was there to deal
with a couple things with her devices, I noticed their mouse on
display appeared to only have one button, contrary to your claim
earlier.
You imagine that one surface can't have two areas that you can click?
How unimaginative you are.
I imagine that's true, actually, but it looks funky if so.
<yawn>And in your narrow little mind, you think it can only be becauseIn your opinion it's better.Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being >>>>>>>>> community produced.You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into
being...
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
A lot of people don't know about Linux. And a lot of people
actually like Macs, it's hard to understand, but they do.
they are "brain damaged"...
I know that Bill Cosby is a sick piece of shit, but his old bit from
the '80s named "Brain Damage" implicitly talks about this, in those
days parents were dosing their kids with LSD (without their knowledge
or consent, of course, thanks a lot Mom and Dad), and it does fry the
neurons. As an adult, I discovered MDMA, and began to heal that.
I know you like your brain that way, it helps sell Macs after all.
On 10/25/2025 9:33 PM, Alan wrote:
this ability to scan documents with an iPhone only impresses me soSo you have a single-use piece of equipment that takes up space all
much because I have a flatbed scanner. It's kind of like how there's
an NNTP reader that's actually good for iOS, sounds great but I'd
have to buy an iPhone to use it. Deal-breaker, there. Samsung's
Galaxy S devices are unmatched in usability on the go, which is the
purpose of a smartphone to me, when I'm at home I prefer to use a PC.
the time.
Got it.
It's stored out of the way unless I'm actively using it, it's USB-
connected so I can plug it in only when it's needed.
On Sat, 10/25/2025 10:33 PM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/25/2025 9:33 PM, Alan wrote:
this ability to scan documents with an iPhone only impresses me so much because I have a flatbed scanner. It's kind of like how there's an NNTP reader that's actually good for iOS, sounds great but I'd have to buy an iPhone to use it. Deal-breaker, there. Samsung's Galaxy S devices are unmatched in usability on the go, which is the purpose of a smartphone to me, when I'm at home I prefer to use a PC.So you have a single-use piece of equipment that takes up space all the time.
Got it.
It's stored out of the way unless I'm actively using it, it's USB-connected so I can plug it in only when it's needed.
I scan my taxes once a year, and the scanner stays in the
box most of the time, out of the way. The scanner isn't even
in this room right now.
My printer is in the basement, on a table, ready to
trot upstairs when needed.
Frequency of use, determines staging.
When I need a smartphone... oh yeah, I don't have a smartphone.
I guess that means the smartphone is stored at the Phone Store at the mall :-)
Paul
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust >>>>>>>>>> system than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library of >>>>>>>> software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
You defend Macs like you're married to them.
What defence was offered here?
I suppose you were asking a reasonable question, previously,
although it should be obvious what I meant about robustness, Apple
takes their followers for granted, they offer less for more.
It's absolutely NOT obvious.
I use a Mac and it runs for months at a time.
So how is it not as "robust"?
It has a robust internal OS, I was focusing on actually using it.
You've still yet to mention any way this supposed difference in
"robustness" manifests itsefl.
You made a claim about "robustness" and failed to back it up.
I don't see why mentioning its UI deficiencies isn't answering the
question, although I admit if I tried a more recent Mac I might have
more detail to give you.
Because even if there were UI deficiencies, that would have nothing
to do with "robustness".
Do I have to provide you a definition/
You can try, but I won't buy it.
Of course you won't. Actual definitions of words are not your friends.
'robust | rōˈbəst, ˈrōˌbəst |
adjective (robuster, robustest)
1 strong and healthy; vigorous: the Caplans are a robust, healthy lot.
• (of an object) sturdy in construction: a robust metal cabinet.
• (of a process, system, organization, etc.) able to withstand or
overcome adverse conditions: California's robust property market.
I was at the Apple Store today, in fact, my mom was there to deal
with a couple things with her devices, I noticed their mouse on
display appeared to only have one button, contrary to your claim
earlier.
You imagine that one surface can't have two areas that you can click?
How unimaginative you are.
I imagine that's true, actually, but it looks funky if so.
Actually, it looks clean.
<yawn>And in your narrow little mind, you think it can only be becauseIn your opinion it's better.Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being >>>>>>>>>> community produced.You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into >>>>>>>>> being...
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
A lot of people don't know about Linux. And a lot of people
actually like Macs, it's hard to understand, but they do.
they are "brain damaged"...
I know that Bill Cosby is a sick piece of shit, but his old bit from
the '80s named "Brain Damage" implicitly talks about this, in those
days parents were dosing their kids with LSD (without their
knowledge or consent, of course, thanks a lot Mom and Dad), and it
does fry the neurons. As an adult, I discovered MDMA, and began to
heal that.
I know you like your brain that way, it helps sell Macs after all.
Sorry, sunshine. I've never used either.
this ability to scan documents with an iPhone only impresses me soSo you have a single-use piece of equipment that takes up space all
much because I have a flatbed scanner. It's kind of like how
there's an NNTP reader that's actually good for iOS, sounds great
but I'd have to buy an iPhone to use it. Deal-breaker, there.
Samsung's Galaxy S devices are unmatched in usability on the go,
which is the purpose of a smartphone to me, when I'm at home I
prefer to use a PC.
the time.
Got it.
It's stored out of the way unless I'm actively using it, it's USB-
connected so I can plug it in only when it's needed.
You have to store it somewhere.
It doesn't magically take up no space when you're not using it: it only takes up less important space.
On 28/10/2025 06:11, Kelly Phillips wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 22:38:56 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
On 27/10/2025 21:24, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, David B. <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:[....]
Laughing at lies is what fools do, pothead.
Sad. :-(
What's sad is the fact that I, or anyone else for that matter, can see your
repetitive, childish, non technical posts ad nauseam.
Kelly is spot on.
*KELLY IS A LIAR*
Why do you say that?
It is the truth.
Did I catch you late in your day, after you've been drinking?
No.
You are a disgrace to the uniform you claim you one wore.
Shame on you.
*Kelly Phillips is a disgrace to the uniform he claimed he ONCE wore*.
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 09:30:26 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
*Kelly Phillips is a disgrace to the uniform he claimed he ONCE wore*.
Did I get kicked out 5 years early, like you did? Nope.
Did I become a raging alcoholic, like you did? Nope.
Did I pick up allegations of sexual misconduct, like you did? Nope.
You're a POS, David. Stand down.
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 08:16:28 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
On 28/10/2025 06:11, Kelly Phillips wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 22:38:56 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>
On 27/10/2025 21:24, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, David B. <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:[....]
Laughing at lies is what fools do, pothead.
Sad. :-(
What's sad is the fact that I, or anyone else for that matter, can see your
repetitive, childish, non technical posts ad nauseam.
Kelly is spot on.
*KELLY IS A LIAR*
Why do you say that?
It is the truth.
What I said was 100% accurate.
Did I catch you late in your day, after you've been drinking?
No.
A rare day off?
You are a disgrace to the uniform you claim you one wore.
Shame on you.
Oh, you want to compare service records? Let's do that.
1. My military service didn't turn me into an alcoholic mess.
2. My military service didn't include allegations of sexual misconduct.
3. My military service didn't end abruptly, several years before full retirement.
You are a disgrace to the uniform you claim you on[c]e wore.
Shame on you.
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:08:35 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote <5r42gkh6c66qc9pc8121mfai5matf4okga@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 08:16:28 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
On 28/10/2025 06:11, Kelly Phillips wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 22:38:56 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>>
*KELLY IS A LIAR*
Why do you say that?
It is the truth.
What I said was 100% accurate.
Did I catch you late in your day, after you've been drinking?
No.
A rare day off?
You are a disgrace to the uniform you claim you one wore.
Shame on you.
Oh, you want to compare service records? Let's do that.
1. My military service didn't turn me into an alcoholic mess.
2. My military service didn't include allegations of sexual misconduct.
3. My military service didn't end abruptly, several years before full
retirement.
You are a disgrace to the uniform you claim you on[c]e wore.
Shame on you.
Support your claims or admit you can't.
On 10/28/2025 3:28 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:08:35 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
<5r42gkh6c66qc9pc8121mfai5matf4okga@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 08:16:28 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>> On 28/10/2025 06:11, Kelly Phillips wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 22:38:56 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>>>
*KELLY IS A LIAR*
Why do you say that?
It is the truth.
What I said was 100% accurate.
Did I catch you late in your day, after you've been drinking?
No.
A rare day off?
You are a disgrace to the uniform you claim you one wore.
Shame on you.
Oh, you want to compare service records? Let's do that.
1. My military service didn't turn me into an alcoholic mess.
2. My military service didn't include allegations of sexual misconduct.
3. My military service didn't end abruptly, several years before full
retirement.
You are a disgrace to the uniform you claim you on[c]e wore.
Shame on you.
Support your claims or admit you can't.
Kelly's whole purpose in your group is to troll, this is just more of
the same, all I've ever seen him/her do. To "disgrace their uniform" if
they ever wore one is on them.
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:59:48 PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote <Ug9MQ.611348$Tux4.113079@fx11.iad>:
On 10/28/2025 3:28 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:08:35 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
[who could care less]>>>Support your claims or admit you can't.
Kelly's whole purpose in your group is to troll, this is just more of
the same, all I've ever seen him/her do. To "disgrace their uniform" if
they ever wore one is on them.
Sadly there are a lot like that. My stalker (if I mention his name he will use
that as an excuse to follow me here), Pothead, Gremlin, etc. They WANT to cause harm. They have no desire to be civil or have a conversation in good faith. You, me, David, Apd, Mike Easter, and many others might disagree -- sometimes strongly -- but our goal is not to harm the other.
Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in news:68ffedaf$1$21$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
On Oct 27, 2025 at 1:55:43⤯PM MST, ""David B."" wrote <mma4ifFb82lU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 20:36, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org> wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 04:42:26 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin <nobody@haph.org>
wrote:
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk>
news:mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net Sun, 26 Oct 2025 22:38:50
GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an
electrician!
You remember things incorrectly then, David. I was *already in the >>>>> trade* long before I ever met you.
David remembers things that didn't happen but he can't remember
things that did happen. That's a symptom of someone who isn't in a
good place.
ROTFLMAO!!
Laughing at lies is what fools do, pothead.
Sad. :-(
Not just lies -- efforts to cause harm. You and I disagree on things,
but what we NEVER do is actively seek to cause harm for the sake of harming. They get off on it. The harm is not a bug but a feature. The
fact you and I laugh it off and keep our spirits up is key to why they target us so strongly.
Cause harm?
You mean like your bot that attacked good people like Steve Carroll and others?
You mean like how you and David have been doxxing people for years?
How about the websites that both you and David are written up on as being nasty trolls?
Pull the other testicle snit.
And stop the syrup patronizing act of "you and I disagree etc" because it
is so transparent.
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:08:35PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote <5r42gkh6c66qc9pc8121mfai5matf4okga@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 08:16:28 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
On 28/10/2025 06:11, Kelly Phillips wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 22:38:56 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>
On 27/10/2025 21:24, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, David B. <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:[....]
Laughing at lies is what fools do, pothead.
Sad. :-(
What's sad is the fact that I, or anyone else for that matter, can see your
repetitive, childish, non technical posts ad nauseam.
Kelly is spot on.
*KELLY IS A LIAR*
Why do you say that?
It is the truth.
What I said was 100% accurate.
Did I catch you late in your day, after you've been drinking?
No.
A rare day off?
You are a disgrace to the uniform you claim you one wore.
Shame on you.
Oh, you want to compare service records? Let's do that.
1. My military service didn't turn me into an alcoholic mess.
2. My military service didn't include allegations of sexual misconduct.
3. My military service didn't end abruptly, several years before full retirement.
You are a disgrace to the uniform you claim you on[c]e wore.
Shame on you.
Support your claims or admit you can't.
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06AM MST, ""David B."" wrote <mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, 23 Oct 2025Both are confirmed psychopaths.
21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to take a
photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott Arizona is even
worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
On 18/10/2025 2:48 pm, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 17, 2025 at 7:05:02 PM MST, "vallor" wrote
<10cuske$1gtba$2@dont-email.me>:
At Sat, 18 Oct 2025 00:23:03 -0000 (UTC), pothead
<pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-18, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
<Snip>
Why would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your systems rescources so that some other program can't use them??I know what articulate means. I don't remember a specific example, >>>>> though. It's fairly common to macOS software, though.
So you dislike Apple / MacOS yet you are unable to give specific
examples why? Sounds kind of lame to me.
How about: you close all of an app's windows, but the
app is still running -- and its menu bar is all the way
at the top?
They should at least have a per-user setting to make it
normal, instead of quirky like that.
Then why not ask Windows and Linux to have a setting to allow an app
to stay
open even when you close the last window?
On 26/10/2025 2:40 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 25, 2025 at 5:13:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote
<10dieu5$39soi$1@dont-email.me>:
On 18/10/2025 2:48 pm, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 17, 2025 at 7:05:02 PM MST, "vallor" wrote
<10cuske$1gtba$2@dont-email.me>:
At Sat, 18 Oct 2025 00:23:03 -0000 (UTC), pothead
<pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-18, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
<Snip>
Why would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your systemsI know what articulate means. I don't remember a specific example, >>>>>>> though. It's fairly common to macOS software, though.
So you dislike Apple / MacOS yet you are unable to give specific
examples why? Sounds kind of lame to me.
How about: you close all of an app's windows, but the
app is still running -- and its menu bar is all the way
at the top?
They should at least have a per-user setting to make it
normal, instead of quirky like that.
Then why not ask Windows and Linux to have a setting to allow an app
to stay
open even when you close the last window?
rescources so that some other program can't use them??
To have access to the app's features even when no windows are open.
Maybe you
want to create a new file from the clipboard, make a new folder or
empty the
trash in your file browser (though of course there are other ways to
do that),
or open the settings for a music app that's still playing. You might
want to
quickly start a new note, open a recent file, or just find it easier -—
especially for accessibility reasons —- to jump straight to the app
and create
something new without hunting around. And if an app normally throws up a
splash screen, you can skip that entirely since the menu is already there
waiting for you.
Sorry, it now just seems that you want to have the program minimised to
the Task Bar .... which, to me, is totally different to having the
program running in memory with no way to actually access it.
On 10/26/2025 1:57 PM, Alan wrote:
2. How is the "Finder a joke"? Be specific... ...for once.
I couldn't believe how devoid of features it was.
What feature does it lack.
Name just one.
I honestly don't remember, it's been since 2010 that I had an OS X/macOS computer.
Windows and Linux are objectively better systems,
In what "objective" sense?
They put more thought into developing them.
That doesn't answer my question.
Apple doesn't even produce its kernel in-house, among countless
examples.
Even if that were true (it's not), how does that mean they don't put
as much thought into software development?
It might mean they put thought into something else, but you're not
even correct about it anyway.
'XNU ("X is Not Unix") is the computer operating system (OS) kernel
developed at Apple Inc. since December 1996 for use in the Mac OS X
(now macOS) operating system and released as free and open-source
software as part of the Darwin OS, which, in addition to being the
basis for macOS, is also the basis for iOS, iPadOS, watchOS,
visionOS, and tvOS.[2]'
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU>
'The XNU kernel
Developer Apple Inc.
Written in C, C++, assembly language
OS family Unix-like, Unix[1]
Working state Current
Source model Open-source
Initial release December 1996; 28 years ago'
You lose.
Read your own link. It says very clearly they imported the code from
the Mach kernel, and they had to buy out another company to get the
rights to it.
And that was more than 30 years ago.
You imagine that the kernel they're running now is the same?
Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch, as MS
and GNU/Torvalds did.
Bully for you!What specs are they "behind on"?You've yet to show any "schemes".and easier to afford to boot. I sympathize with people like >>>>>>>>> that, because Apple just exploits them, it's crass capitalist >>>>>>>>> predatory behavior. I think it warrants a class-actionYou're an idiot.
lawsuit, even.
And that's as "objective" a statement as any you've made.
I'm not the one falling for Apple's schemes.
They're always behind on specs while charging more for them. It's >>>>> unbelievable that people can't see that, it's right there in the
listings of choices compared to PCs.
Fewer choices doesn't mean being "behind".
As usual, you want to compare Apple's products against products made
by EVERY PC maker.
It has nothing to do with how few or many choices there are, it's the
fact that you go from 256 GB storage to 512 GB for an extra $200 or
something, it's laughable. I have 512 GB in my China-produced mini
PC that cost under $200 with Win11 Pro included!
A computer is the sum of its hardware and its software.
Some people prefer the combination that is a Mac running macOS and
they're willing to pay more to get it.
Apparently so! 'Cause it's *a lot* more.Maybe it should make you think about why lots of people would do that...
On 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:In your opinion it's better.
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being... >>>>>
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being
community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience
of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no
reason to trust Apple considering how they censored people of
different viewpoints in the past and how they continue to gouge users
who would want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I can't
help but notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than
components with the same performance would in a store, and there is no
reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
They overcharge because people will pay it, I think. I wouldn't. They have no interest in trying to compete head-to-head with MS, because they can't win that way, but they can win dollars with the people preoccupied with having their crapware.
On 10/28/2025 12:39 PM, Alan wrote:
I don't game but I still find Windows 11 to be a more robust >>>>>>>>>>> system than macOS.
Robust in what way?
More-thorough innovation in its UI, primarily, better library >>>>>>>>> of software available.
Neither comment addresses robustness.
You defend Macs like you're married to them.
What defence was offered here?
I suppose you were asking a reasonable question, previously,
although it should be obvious what I meant about robustness, Apple
takes their followers for granted, they offer less for more.
It's absolutely NOT obvious.
I use a Mac and it runs for months at a time.
So how is it not as "robust"?
It has a robust internal OS, I was focusing on actually using it.
You've still yet to mention any way this supposed difference in
"robustness" manifests itsefl.
Not one you addressed, that's for sure.
You made a claim about "robustness" and failed to back it up.
I don't see why mentioning its UI deficiencies isn't answering the
question, although I admit if I tried a more recent Mac I might
have more detail to give you.
Because even if there were UI deficiencies, that would have nothing
to do with "robustness".
Do I have to provide you a definition/
You can try, but I won't buy it.
Of course you won't. Actual definitions of words are not your friends.
'robust | rōˈbəst, ˈrōˌbəst |
adjective (robuster, robustest)
1 strong and healthy; vigorous: the Caplans are a robust, healthy lot.
• (of an object) sturdy in construction: a robust metal cabinet.
• (of a process, system, organization, etc.) able to withstand or
overcome adverse conditions: California's robust property market.
So that can't apply to the UI?
I was at the Apple Store today, in fact, my mom was there to deal >>>>> with a couple things with her devices, I noticed their mouse on
display appeared to only have one button, contrary to your claim
earlier.
You imagine that one surface can't have two areas that you can click?
How unimaginative you are.
I imagine that's true, actually, but it looks funky if so.
Actually, it looks clean.
"Clean" maybe, but functional less so.
<yawn>And in your narrow little mind, you think it can only be becauseIn your opinion it's better.Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while >>>>>>>>>>> being community produced.You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into >>>>>>>>>> being...
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
A lot of people don't know about Linux. And a lot of people
actually like Macs, it's hard to understand, but they do.
they are "brain damaged"...
I know that Bill Cosby is a sick piece of shit, but his old bit
from the '80s named "Brain Damage" implicitly talks about this, in
those days parents were dosing their kids with LSD (without their
knowledge or consent, of course, thanks a lot Mom and Dad), and it
does fry the neurons. As an adult, I discovered MDMA, and began to >>>>> heal that.
I know you like your brain that way, it helps sell Macs after all.
Sorry, sunshine. I've never used either.
That you're aware of, sure. LSD is in Sprite, MDMA is in Pepsi. And I bet your parents gave you LSD without your knowledge nor consent.
On 10/28/2025 12:40 PM, Alan wrote:
this ability to scan documents with an iPhone only impresses me soSo you have a single-use piece of equipment that takes up space all
much because I have a flatbed scanner. It's kind of like how
there's an NNTP reader that's actually good for iOS, sounds great
but I'd have to buy an iPhone to use it. Deal-breaker, there.
Samsung's Galaxy S devices are unmatched in usability on the go,
which is the purpose of a smartphone to me, when I'm at home I
prefer to use a PC.
the time.
Got it.
It's stored out of the way unless I'm actively using it, it's USB-
connected so I can plug it in only when it's needed.
You have to store it somewhere.
It doesn't magically take up no space when you're not using it: it
only takes up less important space.
It's on top of a storage box behind my desk, I never use that space at all.Now you're making shit up.
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:15:05 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote <fe52gk1unrfj24agvt8ge1mk16v2k04im4@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 09:30:26 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
*Kelly Phillips is a disgrace to the uniform he claimed he ONCE wore*.
Did I get kicked out 5 years early, like you did? Nope.
Did I become a raging alcoholic, like you did? Nope.
Did I pick up allegations of sexual misconduct, like you did? Nope.
You're a POS, David. Stand down.
Your behavior here is a disgrace... and you make up stories with no evidence, above.
On 10/28/2025 4:49 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:59:48 PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<Ug9MQ.611348$Tux4.113079@fx11.iad>:
On 10/28/2025 3:28 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:08:35 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
[who could care less]>>>Support your claims or admit you can't.
Kelly's whole purpose in your group is to troll, this is just more of
the same, all I've ever seen him/her do. To "disgrace their uniform" if >>> they ever wore one is on them.
Sadly there are a lot like that. My stalker (if I mention his name he will use
that as an excuse to follow me here), Pothead, Gremlin, etc. They WANT to
cause harm. They have no desire to be civil or have a conversation in good >> faith. You, me, David, Apd, Mike Easter, and many others might disagree -- >> sometimes strongly -- but our goal is not to harm the other.
You and I are friends even though I talk smack about your gear, but I
don't get loud with you because you debate in a very respectful and even humble manner. Alan is the one acting like he works for Apple secretly
and shit.
On 2025-10-26 03:29, Daniel70 wrote:
On 26/10/2025 2:40 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 25, 2025 at 5:13:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote
<10dieu5$39soi$1@dont-email.me>:
On 18/10/2025 2:48 pm, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 17, 2025 at 7:05:02 PM MST, "vallor" wrote
<10cuske$1gtba$2@dont-email.me>:
At Sat, 18 Oct 2025 00:23:03 -0000 (UTC), pothead
<pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-18, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
<Snip>
Why would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your systems >>>> rescources so that some other program can't use them??I know what articulate means. I don't remember a specific example, >>>>>>>> though. It's fairly common to macOS software, though.
So you dislike Apple / MacOS yet you are unable to give specific >>>>>>> examples why? Sounds kind of lame to me.
How about: you close all of an app's windows, but the
app is still running -- and its menu bar is all the way
at the top?
They should at least have a per-user setting to make it
normal, instead of quirky like that.
Then why not ask Windows and Linux to have a setting to allow an app >>>>> to stay
open even when you close the last window?
To have access to the app's features even when no windows are open.
Maybe you
want to create a new file from the clipboard, make a new folder or
empty the
trash in your file browser (though of course there are other ways to
do that),
or open the settings for a music app that's still playing. You might
want to
quickly start a new note, open a recent file, or just find it easier -— >>> especially for accessibility reasons —- to jump straight to the app
and create
something new without hunting around. And if an app normally throws up a >>> splash screen, you can skip that entirely since the menu is already there >>> waiting for you.
Sorry, it now just seems that you want to have the program minimised to
the Task Bar .... which, to me, is totally different to having the
program running in memory with no way to actually access it.
You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
On 2025-10-25 05:13, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/10/2025 2:48 pm, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 17, 2025 at 7:05:02 PM MST, "vallor" wrote
<10cuske$1gtba$2@dont-email.me>:
At Sat, 18 Oct 2025 00:23:03 -0000 (UTC), pothead
<pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-18, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
<Snip>
Why would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your systemsI know what articulate means. I don't remember a specific example, >>>>>> though. It's fairly common to macOS software, though.
So you dislike Apple / MacOS yet you are unable to give specific
examples why? Sounds kind of lame to me.
How about: you close all of an app's windows, but the
app is still running -- and its menu bar is all the way
at the top?
They should at least have a per-user setting to make it
normal, instead of quirky like that.
Then why not ask Windows and Linux to have a setting to allow an app
to stay
open even when you close the last window?
rescources so that some other program can't use them??
Because you know that you're going to use the app again in just a few moments? How about that?
Why should I have to completely relaunch Word when I'm editing document
after document?
You realize it takes longer to launch it from unloaded than it does to
open a document with it already running...
...right?
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>, brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, 23 Oct 2025Both are confirmed psychopaths.
21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to take a >>>>>>> photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott Arizona is even
worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech... did your question get answered (well, did you see the
answer?). In case you did not, here is the general process:
* Open (or long press) on Preview and select Scan Documents.
* Point it at the document. Try to "square it up". It will handle full
squaring and scan it automatically.
If you are not yet on iOS 26, you can long press on the Files app and get much
the same. That does also still work in iOS 26. If Files is already open, you >> can get to the same option under the "three dots" menu.
Snit speaks of tech?
On 2025-10-27 10:03, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:In your opinion it's better.
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into being... >>>>>>
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being
community produced.
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience
of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no
reason to trust Apple considering how they censored people of
different viewpoints in the past and how they continue to gouge users
who would want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I can't
help but notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than
components with the same performance would in a store, and there is
no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
They overcharge because people will pay it, I think. I wouldn't.
They have no interest in trying to compete head-to-head with MS,
because they can't win that way, but they can win dollars with the
people preoccupied with having their crapware.
They are competing head-to-head with MS...
...and Apple's customer satisfaction KILLS Microsoft's.
On 10/28/2025 4:49 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:59:48 PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<Ug9MQ.611348$Tux4.113079@fx11.iad>:
On 10/28/2025 3:28 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:08:35 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
[who could care less]>>>Support your claims or admit you can't.
Kelly's whole purpose in your group is to troll, this is just more of
the same, all I've ever seen him/her do. To "disgrace their uniform" if >>> they ever wore one is on them.
Sadly there are a lot like that. My stalker (if I mention his name he will use
that as an excuse to follow me here), Pothead, Gremlin, etc. They WANT to
cause harm. They have no desire to be civil or have a conversation in good >> faith. You, me, David, Apd, Mike Easter, and many others might disagree -- >> sometimes strongly -- but our goal is not to harm the other.
You and I are friends even though I talk smack about your gear,
but I
don't get loud with you because you debate in a very respectful and even humble manner. Alan is the one acting like he works for Apple secretly
and shit.
On 28/10/2025 19:28, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:15:05 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
<fe52gk1unrfj24agvt8ge1mk16v2k04im4@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 09:30:26 +0000, "David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> wrote: >>>
*Kelly Phillips is a disgrace to the uniform he claimed he ONCE wore*.
Did I get kicked out 5 years early, like you did? Nope.
Did I become a raging alcoholic, like you did? Nope.
Did I pick up allegations of sexual misconduct, like you did? Nope.
You're a POS, David. Stand down.
Your behavior here is a disgrace... and you make up stories with no evidence,
above.
Absolutely correct. As I said, Kelly is a *LIAR* - on /all/ counts!
On 2025-10-28 18:08, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 10:03, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:In your opinion it's better.
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being >>>>>>>> community produced.
being...
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience
of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no
reason to trust Apple considering how they censored people of
different viewpoints in the past and how they continue to gouge
users who would want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I
can't help but notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than
components with the same performance would in a store, and there is
no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
They overcharge because people will pay it, I think. I wouldn't.
They have no interest in trying to compete head-to-head with MS,
because they can't win that way, but they can win dollars with the
people preoccupied with having their crapware.
They are competing head-to-head with MS...
...and Apple's customer satisfaction KILLS Microsoft's.
There is no doubt here. Of course, having few models available and being able to test every feature of those few models helps tremendously.
Windows needs to work on an unlimited amount of different configurations
as does Linux. In MacOS's case, it only needs to work on computers built
by Apple. That said, I've never had the MacBook fingerprint reader fails
to recognize my print the way my Goodix constantly failed on Windows,
and I don't recall ever needing to reinstall MacOS because an update
caused the OS to no longer boot or caused the decryption of an encrypted drive to fail.
On 2025-10-26 03:29, Daniel70 wrote:
On 26/10/2025 2:40 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 25, 2025 at 5:13:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote
<10dieu5$39soi$1@dont-email.me>:
On 18/10/2025 2:48 pm, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 17, 2025 at 7:05:02 PM MST, "vallor" wroteWhy would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your systems >>>> rescources so that some other program can't use them??
<10cuske$1gtba$2@dont-email.me>:
How about [in the macOS GUI]: you close all of an app's windows, but the
app is still running -- and its menu bar is all the way
at the top?
They should at least have a per-user setting to make it
normal, instead of quirky like that.
Then why not ask Windows and Linux to have a setting to allow an
app to stay
open even when you close the last window?
To have access to the app's features even when no windows are open.
Maybe you
want to create a new file from the clipboard, make a new folder or
empty the
trash in your file browser (though of course there are other ways to
do that),
or open the settings for a music app that's still playing. You might
want to
quickly start a new note, open a recent file, or just find it easier -— >>> especially for accessibility reasons —- to jump straight to the app
and create
something new without hunting around. And if an app normally throws up a >>> splash screen, you can skip that entirely since the menu is already
there
waiting for you.
Sorry, it now just seems that you want to have the program minimised
to the Task Bar .... which, to me, is totally different to having the
program running in memory with no way to actually access it.
You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
2. How is the "Finder a joke"? Be specific... ...for once.
I couldn't believe how devoid of features it was.
What feature does it lack.
Name just one.
I honestly don't remember, it's been since 2010 that I had an OS X/
macOS computer.
So you admit your claim is complete bullshit, because you made it
without actual knowledge.
Got it.
Apple doesn't even produce its kernel in-house, among countless
examples.
Even if that were true (it's not), how does that mean they don't
put as much thought into software development?
It might mean they put thought into something else, but you're not
even correct about it anyway.
'XNU ("X is Not Unix") is the computer operating system (OS) kernel >>>>> developed at Apple Inc. since December 1996 for use in the Mac OS X >>>>> (now macOS) operating system and released as free and open-source
software as part of the Darwin OS, which, in addition to being the
basis for macOS, is also the basis for iOS, iPadOS, watchOS,
visionOS, and tvOS.[2]'
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU>
'The XNU kernel
Developer Apple Inc.
Written in C, C++, assembly language
OS family Unix-like, Unix[1]
Working state Current
Source model Open-source
Initial release December 1996; 28 years ago'
You lose.
Read your own link. It says very clearly they imported the code
from the Mach kernel, and they had to buy out another company to get
the rights to it.
And that was more than 30 years ago.
You imagine that the kernel they're running now is the same?
Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch, as MS
and GNU/Torvalds did.
How do you know MS did that?
You know that for Windows NT (which is still what the current Windows OS
is under the hood), Microsoft hired away the staff from DEC who built
VMS and heavily borrowed from the design of VMS, right?
Maybe it should make you think about why lots of people would do that...Bully for you!What specs are they "behind on"?I'm not the one falling for Apple's schemes.You've yet to show any "schemes".
They're always behind on specs while charging more for them. It's >>>>>> unbelievable that people can't see that, it's right there in the
listings of choices compared to PCs.
Fewer choices doesn't mean being "behind".
As usual, you want to compare Apple's products against products
made by EVERY PC maker.
It has nothing to do with how few or many choices there are, it's
the fact that you go from 256 GB storage to 512 GB for an extra $200
or something, it's laughable. I have 512 GB in my China-produced
mini PC that cost under $200 with Win11 Pro included!
A computer is the sum of its hardware and its software.
Some people prefer the combination that is a Mac running macOS and
they're willing to pay more to get it.
Apparently so! 'Cause it's *a lot* more.
...if thinking is something you ever do.
On 2025-10-27 10:03, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience
of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no
reason to trust Apple considering how they censored people of
different viewpoints in the past and how they continue to gouge users
who would want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I can't
help but notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than
components with the same performance would in a store, and there is
no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
They overcharge because people will pay it, I think. I wouldn't.
They have no interest in trying to compete head-to-head with MS,
because they can't win that way, but they can win dollars with the
people preoccupied with having their crapware.
They are competing head-to-head with MS...
...and Apple's customer satisfaction KILLS Microsoft's.
I use a Mac and it runs for months at a time.
So how is it not as "robust"?
It has a robust internal OS, I was focusing on actually using it.
You've still yet to mention any way this supposed difference in
"robustness" manifests itsefl.
Not one you addressed, that's for sure.
You cannot point to a single WORD above that addresses your claim of robustness.
I was at the Apple Store today, in fact, my mom was there to
deal with a couple things with her devices, I noticed their mouse >>>>>> on display appeared to only have one button, contrary to your
claim earlier.
You imagine that one surface can't have two areas that you can click? >>>>>
How unimaginative you are.
I imagine that's true, actually, but it looks funky if so.
Actually, it looks clean.
"Clean" maybe, but functional less so.
In what way is it less functional?
For a right-hander, the right index finger executes a left-click, and
the middle finger executes a right-click.
Where is the loss of functionality?
On 2025-10-28 15:52, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-28 18:08, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 10:03, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 2025-10-27 12:32, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 08:15, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/26/2025 2:03 PM, Alan wrote:In your opinion it's better.
On 2025-10-25 19:30, Joel W. Crump wrote:
You're basically giving it better marks for how it came into
Linux for its part is incredible in what it offers while being >>>>>>>>> community produced.
being...
...which is a nonsense way to evaluate it AS AN OS.
OK, but it's better than macOS without costing a dime.
That opinion is in the extreme minority.
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and
convenience of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, >>>>> there is no reason to trust Apple considering how they censored
people of different viewpoints in the past and how they continue to >>>>> gouge users who would want more than a default amount of storage or >>>>> RAM. I can't help but notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost
most than components with the same performance would in a store,
and there is no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
They overcharge because people will pay it, I think. I wouldn't.
They have no interest in trying to compete head-to-head with MS,
because they can't win that way, but they can win dollars with the
people preoccupied with having their crapware.
They are competing head-to-head with MS...
...and Apple's customer satisfaction KILLS Microsoft's.
There is no doubt here. Of course, having few models available and
being able to test every feature of those few models helps
tremendously. Windows needs to work on an unlimited amount of
different configurations as does Linux. In MacOS's case, it only needs
to work on computers built by Apple. That said, I've never had the
MacBook fingerprint reader fails to recognize my print the way my
Goodix constantly failed on Windows, and I don't recall ever needing
to reinstall MacOS because an update caused the OS to no longer boot
or caused the decryption of an encrypted drive to fail.
And users don't care WHY things don't work properly...
...just that they don't.
Now you're making shit up.this ability to scan documents with an iPhone only impresses me so >>>>>> much because I have a flatbed scanner. It's kind of like howSo you have a single-use piece of equipment that takes up space all >>>>> the time.
there's an NNTP reader that's actually good for iOS, sounds great >>>>>> but I'd have to buy an iPhone to use it. Deal-breaker, there.
Samsung's Galaxy S devices are unmatched in usability on the go,
which is the purpose of a smartphone to me, when I'm at home I
prefer to use a PC.
Got it.
It's stored out of the way unless I'm actively using it, it's USB-
connected so I can plug it in only when it's needed.
You have to store it somewhere.
It doesn't magically take up no space when you're not using it: it
only takes up less important space.
It's on top of a storage box behind my desk, I never use that space at
all.
You use it for your scanner...
...and if your scanner wasn't there, you could use it for something else.
On 10/28/2025 6:03 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-26 03:29, Daniel70 wrote:
On 26/10/2025 2:40 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 25, 2025 at 5:13:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote
<10dieu5$39soi$1@dont-email.me>:
On 18/10/2025 2:48 pm, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 17, 2025 at 7:05:02 PM MST, "vallor" wroteWhy would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your
<10cuske$1gtba$2@dont-email.me>:
How about [in the macOS GUI]: you close all of an app's windows, >>>>>>> but the
app is still running -- and its menu bar is all the way
at the top?
They should at least have a per-user setting to make it
normal, instead of quirky like that.
Then why not ask Windows and Linux to have a setting to allow an
app to stay
open even when you close the last window?
systems
rescources so that some other program can't use them??
To have access to the app's features even when no windows are open.
Maybe you
want to create a new file from the clipboard, make a new folder or
empty the
trash in your file browser (though of course there are other ways to
do that),
or open the settings for a music app that's still playing. You might
want to
quickly start a new note, open a recent file, or just find it easier -— >>>> especially for accessibility reasons —- to jump straight to the app >>>> and create
something new without hunting around. And if an app normally throws
up a
splash screen, you can skip that entirely since the menu is already
there
waiting for you.
Sorry, it now just seems that you want to have the program minimised
to the Task Bar .... which, to me, is totally different to having the
program running in memory with no way to actually access it.
You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
I can confirm that LO without a blank word processing document will
minimize and have to be restarted - but if I am intending to leave it running indefinitely and/or frequently open/create new files, I would
just leave the blank document open.
On 2025-10-26 03:29, Daniel70 wrote:
On 26/10/2025 2:40 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 25, 2025 at 5:13:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote
<10dieu5$39soi$1@dont-email.me>:
On 18/10/2025 2:48 pm, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 17, 2025 at 7:05:02 PM MST, "vallor" wrote
<10cuske$1gtba$2@dont-email.me>:
At Sat, 18 Oct 2025 00:23:03 -0000 (UTC), pothead
<pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-18, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
<Snip>
Why would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your systems >>>> rescources so that some other program can't use them??I know what articulate means. I don't remember a specific example, >>>>>>>> though. It's fairly common to macOS software, though.
So you dislike Apple / MacOS yet you are unable to give specific >>>>>>> examples why? Sounds kind of lame to me.
How about: you close all of an app's windows, but the
app is still running -- and its menu bar is all the way
at the top?
They should at least have a per-user setting to make it
normal, instead of quirky like that.
Then why not ask Windows and Linux to have a setting to allow an app to stay
open even when you close the last window?
To have access to the app's features even when no windows are open. Maybe you
want to create a new file from the clipboard, make a new folder or empty the
trash in your file browser (though of course there are other ways to do that),
or open the settings for a music app that's still playing. You might want to
quickly start a new note, open a recent file, or just find it easier -— >>> especially for accessibility reasons —- to jump straight to the app and create
something new without hunting around. And if an app normally throws up a >>> splash screen, you can skip that entirely since the menu is already there >>> waiting for you.
Sorry, it now just seems that you want to have the program minimised to the Task Bar .... which, to me, is totally different to having the program running in memory with no way to actually access it.
You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
On 10/28/2025 6:07 PM, Alan wrote:
2. How is the "Finder a joke"? Be specific... ...for once.
I couldn't believe how devoid of features it was.
What feature does it lack.
Name just one.
I honestly don't remember, it's been since 2010 that I had an OS
X/ macOS computer.
So you admit your claim is complete bullshit, because you made it
without actual knowledge.
Got it.
Nope, that's you spinning like a crooked politician, I did use OS
X/ macOS on a Snow Leopard MacBook I purchased new, wanting to have
the experience for myself (and I'd gotten some inheritance money
that made it a fairly trivial expense, though even at $800 on sale,
$848 with Maryland sales tax, that was expensive for its specs). I
liked it in some ways, but Finder really was subpar. You expecting
me to remember in detail so long later is you avoiding the topic.
Apple doesn't even produce its kernel in-house, among
countless examples.
Even if that were true (it's not), how does that mean they
don't put as much thought into software development?
It might mean they put thought into something else, but
you're not even correct about it anyway.
'XNU ("X is Not Unix") is the computer operating system
(OS) kernel developed at Apple Inc. since December 1996
for use in the Mac OS X (now macOS) operating system and
released as free and open-source software as part of the
Darwin OS, which, in addition to being the basis for
macOS, is also the basis for iOS, iPadOS, watchOS,
visionOS, and tvOS.[2]'
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU>
'The XNU kernel
Developer Apple Inc. Written in C, C++, assembly
language OS family Unix-like, Unix[1] Working state
Current Source model Open-source Initial release
December 1996; 28 years ago'
You lose.
Read your own link. It says very clearly they imported the
code from the Mach kernel, and they had to buy out another
company to get the rights to it.
And that was more than 30 years ago.
You imagine that the kernel they're running now is the same?
Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch,
as MS and GNU/Torvalds did.
How do you know MS did that?
You know that for Windows NT (which is still what the current
Windows OS is under the hood), Microsoft hired away the staff from
DEC who built VMS and heavily borrowed from the design of VMS,
right?
They hired Cutler and probably others, yeah, I know that. So what?
Why didn't Apple hire anyone themselves, instead buying out NeXT,
which in turn didn't create the base code for the kernel? Oh,
because they're inferior, obviously. Linus Torvalds got a 386
manual and worked independently, and look what that turned into.
Why couldn't Apple handle that? Because of their inferiority.
Maybe it should make you think about why lots of people would doBully for you!What specs are they "behind on"?I'm not the one falling for Apple's schemes.You've yet to show any "schemes".
They're always behind on specs while charging more for
them. It's unbelievable that people can't see that, it's
right there in the listings of choices compared to PCs.
Fewer choices doesn't mean being "behind".
As usual, you want to compare Apple's products against
products made by EVERY PC maker.
It has nothing to do with how few or many choices there are,
it's the fact that you go from 256 GB storage to 512 GB for
an extra $200 or something, it's laughable. I have 512 GB
in my China- produced mini PC that cost under $200 with
Win11 Pro included!
A computer is the sum of its hardware and its software.
Some people prefer the combination that is a Mac running macOS
and they're willing to pay more to get it.
Apparently so! 'Cause it's *a lot* more.
that...
...if thinking is something you ever do.
Like I said, they have brain damage. Mac is the Walter MondaleYour only answer to people disagreeing with your choices is to claim
(for those not familiar with American political history, he was the
former vice president decimated by Pres. Reagan in 1984) OS, looks
pretty but falls way short.
On 10/28/2025 6:08 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-27 10:03, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/27/2025 12:47 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
Even as a Linux user, I'll admit that the simplicity and convenience
of Apple make it superior for most users. Nevertheless, there is no
reason to trust Apple considering how they censored people of
different viewpoints in the past and how they continue to gouge
users who would want more than a default amount of storage or RAM. I
can't help but notice that storage and RAM upgrades cost most than
components with the same performance would in a store, and there is
no reason for the company to charge as much as it does.
They overcharge because people will pay it, I think. I wouldn't.
They have no interest in trying to compete head-to-head with MS,
because they can't win that way, but they can win dollars with the
people preoccupied with having their crapware.
They are competing head-to-head with MS...
Barely, heh, most Mac users are just unusual people, though they have
made some inroads in recent years, I acknowledge.
...and Apple's customer satisfaction KILLS Microsoft's.
That's easy when they aren't taking on the same kinds of challenges.Again. The reasons don't matter.
Most Windows PCs are not made by MS. American OEMs are *notorious* for putting massive amounts of crapware and trialware on new PCs, ruining
the clean OS that you can get installing oneself, I didn't even need to
with my China-produced mini PC, because they didn't put any crap on it. Other than enabling BitLocker, their pre-installation was pretty clean,
and I didn't even redo it. The only other thing I've noticed was that
if you click "Online support" in the Settings->System->About section,
the Settings window turns red and disappears, lol, not harmful but cute.
On 2025-10-25 05:13, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/10/2025 2:48 pm, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 17, 2025 at 7:05:02 PM MST, "vallor" wrote
<10cuske$1gtba$2@dont-email.me>:
At Sat, 18 Oct 2025 00:23:03 -0000 (UTC), pothead
<pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-18, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
<Snip>
Why would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your systems rescources so that some other program can't use them??I know what articulate means. I don't remember a specific example, >>>>>> though. It's fairly common to macOS software, though.
So you dislike Apple / MacOS yet you are unable to give specific
examples why? Sounds kind of lame to me.
How about: you close all of an app's windows, but the
app is still running -- and its menu bar is all the way
at the top?
They should at least have a per-user setting to make it
normal, instead of quirky like that.
Then why not ask Windows and Linux to have a setting to allow an app to stay
open even when you close the last window?
Because you know that you're going to use the app again in just a few moments? How about that?
Why should I have to completely relaunch Word when I'm editing document after document?
You realize it takes longer to launch it from unloaded than it does to open a document with it already running...
...right?
On 10/28/2025 6:13 PM, Alan wrote:
I use a Mac and it runs for months at a time.
So how is it not as "robust"?
It has a robust internal OS, I was focusing on actually using it.
You've still yet to mention any way this supposed difference in
"robustness" manifests itsefl.
Not one you addressed, that's for sure.
You cannot point to a single WORD above that addresses your claim of
robustness.
OK, well, I'm talking about putting the effort into thoughtful design of
the UI. Microsoft prioritizes that in a clever and innovative way, it's intuitive. Apple simply lacks that ability.
I was at the Apple Store today, in fact, my mom was there to >>>>>>> deal with a couple things with her devices, I noticed their mouse >>>>>>> on display appeared to only have one button, contrary to your
claim earlier.
You imagine that one surface can't have two areas that you can click? >>>>>>
How unimaginative you are.
I imagine that's true, actually, but it looks funky if so.
Actually, it looks clean.
"Clean" maybe, but functional less so.
In what way is it less functional?
For a right-hander, the right index finger executes a left-click, and
the middle finger executes a right-click.
Where is the loss of functionality?
"Loss of", not exactly, but it's counterintuitive to look at the casing
of the mouse and not see two buttons when there actually are two. My Logitech mouse is similar in shape and simplicity (which is one good
thing about Apple's design, I acknowledge), but it clearly shows a left
and right button.
On 10/28/2025 6:14 PM, Alan wrote:
Now you're making shit up.this ability to scan documents with an iPhone only impresses me >>>>>>> so much because I have a flatbed scanner. It's kind of like how >>>>>>> there's an NNTP reader that's actually good for iOS, sounds great >>>>>>> but I'd have to buy an iPhone to use it. Deal-breaker, there. >>>>>>> Samsung's Galaxy S devices are unmatched in usability on the go, >>>>>>> which is the purpose of a smartphone to me, when I'm at home ISo you have a single-use piece of equipment that takes up space
prefer to use a PC.
all the time.
Got it.
It's stored out of the way unless I'm actively using it, it's USB-
connected so I can plug it in only when it's needed.
You have to store it somewhere.
It doesn't magically take up no space when you're not using it: it
only takes up less important space.
It's on top of a storage box behind my desk, I never use that space
at all.
You use it for your scanner...
...and if your scanner wasn't there, you could use it for something else.
The whole reason the box it's on top of is there is because it's out of
the way. If I removed the furniture back there I could move my desk further toward the wall, but it's not even my furniture, it was just in
the room when I moved in. Thus I'm literally losing no space by putting the box and the scanner there.
On Tue, 10/28/2025 6:03 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-26 03:29, Daniel70 wrote:
On 26/10/2025 2:40 am, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 25, 2025 at 5:13:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote
<10dieu5$39soi$1@dont-email.me>:
On 18/10/2025 2:48 pm, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 17, 2025 at 7:05:02 PM MST, "vallor" wrote
<10cuske$1gtba$2@dont-email.me>:
At Sat, 18 Oct 2025 00:23:03 -0000 (UTC), pothead
<pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-18, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
<Snip>
Why would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your systems >>>>> rescources so that some other program can't use them??I know what articulate means. I don't remember a specific example, >>>>>>>>> though. It's fairly common to macOS software, though.
So you dislike Apple / MacOS yet you are unable to give specific >>>>>>>> examples why? Sounds kind of lame to me.
How about: you close all of an app's windows, but the
app is still running -- and its menu bar is all the way
at the top?
They should at least have a per-user setting to make it
normal, instead of quirky like that.
Then why not ask Windows and Linux to have a setting to allow an app to stay
open even when you close the last window?
To have access to the app's features even when no windows are open. Maybe you
want to create a new file from the clipboard, make a new folder or empty the
trash in your file browser (though of course there are other ways to do that),
or open the settings for a music app that's still playing. You might want to
quickly start a new note, open a recent file, or just find it easier -— >>>> especially for accessibility reasons —- to jump straight to the app and create
something new without hunting around. And if an app normally throws up a >>>> splash screen, you can skip that entirely since the menu is already there >>>> waiting for you.
Sorry, it now just seems that you want to have the program minimised to the Task Bar .... which, to me, is totally different to having the program running in memory with no way to actually access it.
You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/MGrJFLXr/Minimize-things-having-square-box-decoration.gif
I don't think I would be prepared to rule out anything.
You can make any behavior you have the hours of programming, to develop.
There are plenty of cracks and crevasses to allow violating convention.
Program windows for example, don't have to be rectangles. The "Widget" libraries
of the past, with a round clock face, are an example of that. You can have any
irregular shape you want (which should cause conniption fits for the dev
who writes the drop shadow code for the desktop).
*******
In the above "decoration" picture, the program windows open don't have a file open.
And the tool palette of GIMP has no square box -- you cannot iconify
the tool palette.
On Firefox, the top-right-corner decorations are *fake* :-) Which I think is hilarious.
With some luck, you might notice the color of the X for dismiss, is
a slightly different shade than the system-administer decorations.
[Picture]
https://i.postimg.cc/fRNdV2W4/windows-top-firefox-bottom.jpg
You can't take anything for granted in Windows.
"There are no rules, where we're going"Source please!
*******
Windows suspends applications, and saves them in memory. This
is similar to the concept of Terminate and Stay Resident. The
application re-inflates when referred to a second time. The
memory and the suspended status can be retired, under memory
pressure. Not many things, in an average Task Manager display,
are suspended like that.
The previous paragraph applies to Metro.Apps . They have
a different state diagram than Win32 programs. Microsoft attempted
to cheat, by mis-representing the state diagram, as it does have
some extra ("official") states when resources are being harvested
under pressure. They choose not to draw the entire diagram,
when it suits their architectural sensibilities.
We would never have done that at work. If you drew a diagram
at work, it first and foremost had to be technically correct.
You can tie ribbons and bows on it later, all you want, if
you're with the marketing department.
Processes continue to have a Zombie state, and I expect to
see the Zombie state in diagrams. The reason for this, is
the Zombie state is an exception state. Any time the automated
resource harvesting logic of the OS fails, that creates a zombie,
and things like a Task Manager or a Process Status, will indicate
via text, that an item is a zombie. Zombies can be removed
by rebooting, for example, so upon seeing a zombie, the
user is alerted to the fact they have an opportunity to remove
the thing, but the implementation involves a reboot.
On Tue, 10/28/2025 6:02 PM, Alan wrote:Empiricism trumps theory.
On 2025-10-25 05:13, Daniel70 wrote:
On 18/10/2025 2:48 pm, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 17, 2025 at 7:05:02 PM MST, "vallor" wrote
<10cuske$1gtba$2@dont-email.me>:
At Sat, 18 Oct 2025 00:23:03 -0000 (UTC), pothead
<pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-18, Joel W. Crump <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
<Snip>
Why would you want to do that?? .... except to use some of your systems rescources so that some other program can't use them??I know what articulate means. I don't remember a specific example, >>>>>>> though. It's fairly common to macOS software, though.
So you dislike Apple / MacOS yet you are unable to give specific
examples why? Sounds kind of lame to me.
How about: you close all of an app's windows, but the
app is still running -- and its menu bar is all the way
at the top?
They should at least have a per-user setting to make it
normal, instead of quirky like that.
Then why not ask Windows and Linux to have a setting to allow an app to stay
open even when you close the last window?
Because you know that you're going to use the app again in just a few moments? How about that?
Why should I have to completely relaunch Word when I'm editing document after document?
You realize it takes longer to launch it from unloaded than it does to open a document with it already running...
...right?
System read cache is just as fast as suspended memory.
TSR made sense a long time ago. The speed of hardware
today makes such things less distinctive.
Sure, you can hibernate kernels and warm start them
over and over again, day after day after day. But
who wants an injured kernel to spoil their work
day, when instantiating one from scratch doesn't
exactly take that long (OSes can boot in ten seconds
without screwing around, with some good hardware).
A freshly inflated kernel, is a healthy kernel.
You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
I can confirm that LO without a blank word processing document will
minimize and have to be restarted - but if I am intending to leave it
running indefinitely and/or frequently open/create new files, I would
just leave the blank document open.
So you have to work around a limitation built into the UI you've chosen.
I can leave an application open OR quit it without any work arounds.
So you admit your claim is complete bullshit, because you made it
without actual knowledge.
Got it.
Nope, that's you spinning like a crooked politician, I did use OS
Nope. I'm nothing that you claim something is "devoid of features"
without actually having any you can mention.
X/ macOS on a Snow Leopard MacBook I purchased new, wanting to have
the experience for myself (and I'd gotten some inheritance money
that made it a fairly trivial expense, though even at $800 on sale,
$848 with Maryland sales tax, that was expensive for its specs). I
liked it in some ways, but Finder really was subpar. You expecting
me to remember in detail so long later is you avoiding the topic.
I expect an honest person to acknowledge that what you used 16 years ago doesn't necessarily apply today...
...but you're not an honest person...
...are you?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU>
'The XNU kernel
Developer Apple Inc. Written in C, C++, assembly
language OS family Unix-like, Unix[1] Working state
Current Source model Open-source Initial release
December 1996; 28 years ago'
You lose.
Read your own link. It says very clearly they imported the
code from the Mach kernel, and they had to buy out another
company to get the rights to it.
And that was more than 30 years ago.
You imagine that the kernel they're running now is the same?
Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch,
as MS and GNU/Torvalds did.
How do you know MS did that?
You know that for Windows NT (which is still what the current
Windows OS is under the hood), Microsoft hired away the staff from
DEC who built VMS and heavily borrowed from the design of VMS,
right?
They hired Cutler and probably others, yeah, I know that. So what?
So they built on what those people had already done before they came to Microsoft.
Why didn't Apple hire anyone themselves, instead buying out NeXT,
which in turn didn't create the base code for the kernel? Oh,
Isn't buying out NeXT the same as hiring the people who worked for it>
because they're inferior, obviously. Linus Torvalds got a 386
manual and worked independently, and look what that turned into.
Why couldn't Apple handle that? Because of their inferiority.
And how far did he get on his own?
Again. The reasons don't matter....and Apple's customer satisfaction KILLS Microsoft's.
That's easy when they aren't taking on the same kinds of challenges.
Most Windows PCs are not made by MS. American OEMs are *notorious*
for putting massive amounts of crapware and trialware on new PCs,
ruining the clean OS that you can get installing oneself, I didn't
even need to with my China-produced mini PC, because they didn't put
any crap on it. Other than enabling BitLocker, their pre-installation
was pretty clean, and I didn't even redo it. The only other thing
I've noticed was that if you click "Online support" in the Settings-
System->About section, the Settings window turns red and disappears,lol, not harmful but cute.
PEOPLE want solutions that work well for them.
In more than 30 years of working with, selling, administering and
supporting personal computers, I've seen many people switch from Windows
to Mac...
...and only two ever wanted to switch back.
Whereas many, many of them thanked me profusely for showing them there
was a better way.
I use a Mac and it runs for months at a time.
So how is it not as "robust"?
It has a robust internal OS, I was focusing on actually using it.
You've still yet to mention any way this supposed difference in
"robustness" manifests itsefl.
Not one you addressed, that's for sure.
You cannot point to a single WORD above that addresses your claim of
robustness.
OK, well, I'm talking about putting the effort into thoughtful design
of the UI. Microsoft prioritizes that in a clever and innovative way,
it's intuitive. Apple simply lacks that ability.
So you admit that you have nothing to show that macOS is any less
"robust" than Windows.
Got it.
What about Microsoft's Windows UI is any more intuitive than macOS?
Is it the way that they created a "Settings" app for Windows 10...
...but still made you use Control Panel for some things?
I was at the Apple Store today, in fact, my mom was there to >>>>>>>> deal with a couple things with her devices, I noticed their
mouse on display appeared to only have one button, contrary to >>>>>>>> your claim earlier.
You imagine that one surface can't have two areas that you can
click?
How unimaginative you are.
I imagine that's true, actually, but it looks funky if so.
Actually, it looks clean.
"Clean" maybe, but functional less so.
In what way is it less functional?
For a right-hander, the right index finger executes a left-click, and
the middle finger executes a right-click.
Where is the loss of functionality?
"Loss of", not exactly, but it's counterintuitive to look at the
casing of the mouse and not see two buttons when there actually are
two. My Logitech mouse is similar in shape and simplicity (which is
one good thing about Apple's design, I acknowledge), but it clearly
shows a left and right button.
Once you know there are two buttons and the natural design of the device
has your two fingers falling where those buttons are...
...why is there any advantage to seeing them?
Does seeing them help you use them?
No.
On 10/28/2025 7:49 PM, Alan wrote:
You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
I can confirm that LO without a blank word processing document will
minimize and have to be restarted - but if I am intending to leave it
running indefinitely and/or frequently open/create new files, I would
just leave the blank document open.
So you have to work around a limitation built into the UI you've chosen.
I can leave an application open OR quit it without any work arounds.
Ah, but that's one situation with one app, you're allowing Apple to make this a system-wide function, of keeping apps running in the background,
all because of the word-processor issue.
Now you're making shit up.this ability to scan documents with an iPhone only impresses me >>>>>>>> so much because I have a flatbed scanner. It's kind of like how >>>>>>>> there's an NNTP reader that's actually good for iOS, soundsSo you have a single-use piece of equipment that takes up space >>>>>>> all the time.
great but I'd have to buy an iPhone to use it. Deal-breaker, >>>>>>>> there. Samsung's Galaxy S devices are unmatched in usability on >>>>>>>> the go, which is the purpose of a smartphone to me, when I'm at >>>>>>>> home I prefer to use a PC.
Got it.
It's stored out of the way unless I'm actively using it, it's USB- >>>>>> connected so I can plug it in only when it's needed.
You have to store it somewhere.
It doesn't magically take up no space when you're not using it: it
only takes up less important space.
It's on top of a storage box behind my desk, I never use that space
at all.
You use it for your scanner...
...and if your scanner wasn't there, you could use it for something
else.
The whole reason the box it's on top of is there is because it's out
of the way. If I removed the furniture back there I could move my
desk further toward the wall, but it's not even my furniture, it was
just in the room when I moved in. Thus I'm literally losing no space
by putting the box and the scanner there.
You're losing the space the scanner occupies when it's not in use.
You're losing the space you need to keep clear on your deskt to use the scanner...
...or you're losing the time to clear that space any time you want to
use it.
On 10/28/2025 7:53 PM, Alan wrote:
So you admit your claim is complete bullshit, because you made it
without actual knowledge.
Got it.
Nope, that's you spinning like a crooked politician, I did use OS
Nope. I'm nothing that you claim something is "devoid of features"
without actually having any you can mention.
X/ macOS on a Snow Leopard MacBook I purchased new, wanting to have
the experience for myself (and I'd gotten some inheritance money
that made it a fairly trivial expense, though even at $800 on sale,
$848 with Maryland sales tax, that was expensive for its specs). I
liked it in some ways, but Finder really was subpar. You expecting
me to remember in detail so long later is you avoiding the topic.
I expect an honest person to acknowledge that what you used 16 years
ago doesn't necessarily apply today...
...but you're not an honest person...
...are you?
I'm sure they've tinkered with it over the years, yeah, but that doesn't mean they've made it as robust as Windows' File Explorer, or the better Linux file browsers.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU>
'The XNU kernel
Developer Apple Inc. Written in C, C++, assembly
language OS family Unix-like, Unix[1] Working state
Current Source model Open-source Initial release
December 1996; 28 years ago'
You lose.
Read your own link. It says very clearly they imported the
code from the Mach kernel, and they had to buy out another
company to get the rights to it.
And that was more than 30 years ago.
You imagine that the kernel they're running now is the same?
Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch,
as MS and GNU/Torvalds did.
How do you know MS did that?
You know that for Windows NT (which is still what the current
Windows OS is under the hood), Microsoft hired away the staff from
DEC who built VMS and heavily borrowed from the design of VMS,
right?
They hired Cutler and probably others, yeah, I know that. So what?
So they built on what those people had already done before they came
to Microsoft.
They built on the minds that had done it before, yeah, that's not the
same as buying out DEC.
Why didn't Apple hire anyone themselves, instead buying out NeXT,
which in turn didn't create the base code for the kernel? Oh,
Isn't buying out NeXT the same as hiring the people who worked for it>
Right but they didn't create Mach from scratch, either.
because they're inferior, obviously. Linus Torvalds got a 386
manual and worked independently, and look what that turned into.
Why couldn't Apple handle that? Because of their inferiority.
And how far did he get on his own?
That he released something that could be rounded out by the community isI asked how far he got, and you failed to answer.
an astonishing achievement, it was something GNU was able to combine
with their code to turn into a boot-able OS. It worked. To this day,
we call the product GNU/Linux as a result. Have others contributed to
the kernel? You bet, but Linus got the initial base code done.
On 10/28/2025 7:59 PM, Alan wrote:
You've still yet to mention any way this supposed difference inI use a Mac and it runs for months at a time.
So how is it not as "robust"?
It has a robust internal OS, I was focusing on actually using it. >>>>>>
"robustness" manifests itsefl.
Not one you addressed, that's for sure.
You cannot point to a single WORD above that addresses your claim of
robustness.
OK, well, I'm talking about putting the effort into thoughtful design
of the UI. Microsoft prioritizes that in a clever and innovative
way, it's intuitive. Apple simply lacks that ability.
So you admit that you have nothing to show that macOS is any less
"robust" than Windows.
Got it.
I don't have an example not having used a Mac in so long, but I could
easily find examples if I tried one again.
What about Microsoft's Windows UI is any more intuitive than macOS?
Is it the way that they created a "Settings" app for Windows 10...
...but still made you use Control Panel for some things?
Control Panel deals with deeper settings that a lot of people never
think about, the Windows 10/11 Settings interface has replaced the more general functions of Control Panel because time has marched on, MS is forever changing things. It doesn't impede me at all, in fact I never
much liked Apple's way of managing settings.
I was at the Apple Store today, in fact, my mom was there to >>>>>>>>> deal with a couple things with her devices, I noticed their >>>>>>>>> mouse on display appeared to only have one button, contrary to >>>>>>>>> your claim earlier.
You imagine that one surface can't have two areas that you can >>>>>>>> click?
How unimaginative you are.
I imagine that's true, actually, but it looks funky if so.
Actually, it looks clean.
"Clean" maybe, but functional less so.
In what way is it less functional?
For a right-hander, the right index finger executes a left-click,
and the middle finger executes a right-click.
Where is the loss of functionality?
"Loss of", not exactly, but it's counterintuitive to look at the
casing of the mouse and not see two buttons when there actually are
two. My Logitech mouse is similar in shape and simplicity (which is
one good thing about Apple's design, I acknowledge), but it clearly
shows a left and right button.
Once you know there are two buttons and the natural design of the
device has your two fingers falling where those buttons are...
...why is there any advantage to seeing them?
Does seeing them help you use them?
No.
In other words, Apple does this showy trick to make the mouse look cool
in the store, and you have to defend it on Usenet because you're
husbanded to their junk. It's amazing.
On 10/28/2025 7:56 PM, Alan wrote:
Again. The reasons don't matter....and Apple's customer satisfaction KILLS Microsoft's.
That's easy when they aren't taking on the same kinds of challenges.
Most Windows PCs are not made by MS. American OEMs are *notorious*
for putting massive amounts of crapware and trialware on new PCs,
ruining the clean OS that you can get installing oneself, I didn't
even need to with my China-produced mini PC, because they didn't put
any crap on it. Other than enabling BitLocker, their pre-installation
was pretty clean, and I didn't even redo it. The only other thing
I've noticed was that if you click "Online support" in the Settings-
System->About section, the Settings window turns red and disappears,lol, not harmful but cute.
PEOPLE want solutions that work well for them.
In more than 30 years of working with, selling, administering and
supporting personal computers, I've seen many people switch from
Windows to Mac...
...and only two ever wanted to switch back.
Whereas many, many of them thanked me profusely for showing them there
was a better way.
I bought a MacBook and ended up completely replacing its OS with Windows 7. Admittedly, I tried using Boot Camp, but it required fully shutting down one OS to boot the other, so I just said screw OS X/macOS.
when I gave the device to a laptop-enthused friend, it died a miserable death from its piddly specs running Windows. Despite costing $800 plus sales tax, and that was a *good* price at the time, the list price was $1000, and online "street price" was over $900. Incredible you defendMuch more incredible is that you cannot make a cogent argument about how
this Apple cult.
On 10/28/2025 8:00 PM, Alan wrote:
Now you're making shit up.this ability to scan documents with an iPhone only impresses me >>>>>>>>> so much because I have a flatbed scanner. It's kind of like >>>>>>>>> how there's an NNTP reader that's actually good for iOS, sounds >>>>>>>>> great but I'd have to buy an iPhone to use it. Deal-breaker, >>>>>>>>> there. Samsung's Galaxy S devices are unmatched in usability on >>>>>>>>> the go, which is the purpose of a smartphone to me, when I'm at >>>>>>>>> home I prefer to use a PC.So you have a single-use piece of equipment that takes up space >>>>>>>> all the time.
Got it.
It's stored out of the way unless I'm actively using it, it's
USB- connected so I can plug it in only when it's needed.
You have to store it somewhere.
It doesn't magically take up no space when you're not using it: it >>>>>> only takes up less important space.
It's on top of a storage box behind my desk, I never use that space >>>>> at all.
You use it for your scanner...
...and if your scanner wasn't there, you could use it for something
else.
The whole reason the box it's on top of is there is because it's out
of the way. If I removed the furniture back there I could move my
desk further toward the wall, but it's not even my furniture, it was
just in the room when I moved in. Thus I'm literally losing no space
by putting the box and the scanner there.
You're losing the space the scanner occupies when it's not in use.
You're losing the space you need to keep clear on your deskt to use
the scanner...
...or you're losing the time to clear that space any time you want to
use it.
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the computer so
that the scanner can rest on something and connect by USB.
I wouldn't,
frankly, find it easier to use a smartphone camera to do the scanning,
impressive though Apple's method is (and good for people who don't own a flatbed scanner). I don't really want the image in my phone, I want toNever heard of file transfer?
be able to use Paint.NET to manipulate it.
I did use OS
Nope. I'm nothing that you claim something is "devoid of features"
without actually having any you can mention.
X/ macOS on a Snow Leopard MacBook I purchased new, wanting to have
the experience for myself (and I'd gotten some inheritance money
that made it a fairly trivial expense, though even at $800 on sale,
$848 with Maryland sales tax, that was expensive for its specs). I
liked it in some ways, but Finder really was subpar. You expecting
me to remember in detail so long later is you avoiding the topic.
I expect an honest person to acknowledge that what you used 16 years
ago doesn't necessarily apply today...
...but you're not an honest person...
...are you?
I'm sure they've tinkered with it over the years, yeah, but that
doesn't mean they've made it as robust as Windows' File Explorer, or
the better Linux file browsers.
Again. What makes Windows File Explorer or any Linux file browser...
...more ROBUST?
You've already admitted you don't know anything about any macOS newer
than 15 years old.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU>
'The XNU kernel
Developer Apple Inc. Written in C, C++, assembly >>>>>>>>> language OS family Unix-like, Unix[1] Working state
Current Source model Open-source Initial release
December 1996; 28 years ago'
You lose.
Read your own link. It says very clearly they imported the
code from the Mach kernel, and they had to buy out another
company to get the rights to it.
And that was more than 30 years ago.
You imagine that the kernel they're running now is the same?
Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch,
as MS and GNU/Torvalds did.
How do you know MS did that?
You know that for Windows NT (which is still what the current
Windows OS is under the hood), Microsoft hired away the staff from
DEC who built VMS and heavily borrowed from the design of VMS,
right?
They hired Cutler and probably others, yeah, I know that. So what?
So they built on what those people had already done before they came
to Microsoft.
They built on the minds that had done it before, yeah, that's not the
same as buying out DEC.
Actually, if you had done any research into it, you'd see they stole wholesale from what DEC built.
Why didn't Apple hire anyone themselves, instead buying out NeXT,
which in turn didn't create the base code for the kernel? Oh,
Isn't buying out NeXT the same as hiring the people who worked for it>
Right but they didn't create Mach from scratch, either.
So what? Everyone builds on what has gone before.
You only seem to think it matters when it's Apple.
I asked how far he got, and you failed to answer.because they're inferior, obviously. Linus Torvalds got a 386
manual and worked independently, and look what that turned into.
Why couldn't Apple handle that? Because of their inferiority.
And how far did he get on his own?
That he released something that could be rounded out by the community
is an astonishing achievement, it was something GNU was able to
combine with their code to turn into a boot-able OS. It worked. To
this day, we call the product GNU/Linux as a result. Have others
contributed to the kernel? You bet, but Linus got the initial base
code done.
But the point is that EVERY OS is the result of what has gone before.
But you only seem to think that somehow makes macOS (and iOS) somehow flawed.
Why is that...
...other than your naked hatred for that which you don't actually understand, I mean?
I'm talking about putting the effort into thoughtful
design of the UI. Microsoft prioritizes that in a clever and
innovative way, it's intuitive. Apple simply lacks that ability.
So you admit that you have nothing to show that macOS is any less
"robust" than Windows.
Got it.
I don't have an example not having used a Mac in so long, but I could
easily find examples if I tried one again.
And yet you make the argument while admitting you have no actual knowledge.
Got it.
What about Microsoft's Windows UI is any more intuitive than macOS?
Is it the way that they created a "Settings" app for Windows 10...
...but still made you use Control Panel for some things?
Control Panel deals with deeper settings that a lot of people never
think about, the Windows 10/11 Settings interface has replaced the
more general functions of Control Panel because time has marched on,
MS is forever changing things. It doesn't impede me at all, in fact I
never much liked Apple's way of managing settings.
In what way? What SPECIFICALLY did you not like?
I was at the Apple Store today, in fact, my mom was there to >>>>>>>>>> deal with a couple things with her devices, I noticed their >>>>>>>>>> mouse on display appeared to only have one button, contrary to >>>>>>>>>> your claim earlier.
You imagine that one surface can't have two areas that you can >>>>>>>>> click?
How unimaginative you are.
I imagine that's true, actually, but it looks funky if so.
Actually, it looks clean.
"Clean" maybe, but functional less so.
In what way is it less functional?
For a right-hander, the right index finger executes a left-click,
and the middle finger executes a right-click.
Where is the loss of functionality?
"Loss of", not exactly, but it's counterintuitive to look at the
casing of the mouse and not see two buttons when there actually are
two. My Logitech mouse is similar in shape and simplicity (which is >>>> one good thing about Apple's design, I acknowledge), but it clearly
shows a left and right button.
Once you know there are two buttons and the natural design of the
device has your two fingers falling where those buttons are...
...why is there any advantage to seeing them?
Does seeing them help you use them?
No.
In other words, Apple does this showy trick to make the mouse look
cool in the store, and you have to defend it on Usenet because you're
husbanded to their junk. It's amazing.
Nope. No physical separation between the buttons means one less place
you need to worry about dirt getting inside the device.
The hilarious part is that there are a couple of things you could
actually talk about that are plainly stupid about the design of the
Apple mouse, but you're too dim to even see them.
I bought a MacBook and ended up completely replacing its OS with
Windows 7. Admittedly, I tried using Boot Camp, but it required fully
shutting down one OS to boot the other, so I just said screw OS X/macOS.
1. You could have used one of several products to run Windows in a
virtual machine:
Parallels for Mac was released in 2006.
VMWare Fusion was released in 2007
VirtualBox from Oracle was released in 2007 and was FREE.
2. How did having to restart disadvantage you anyway?
AndMuch more incredible is that you cannot make a cogent argument about how
when I gave the device to a laptop-enthused friend, it died a
miserable death from its piddly specs running Windows. Despite
costing $800 plus sales tax, and that was a *good* price at the time,
the list price was $1000, and online "street price" was over $900.
Incredible you defend this Apple cult.
it is actually worse in any single way.
Whenever pressed to support one of your claims...
...you pivot!
Now you're making shit up.this ability to scan documents with an iPhone only impresses >>>>>>>>>> me so much because I have a flatbed scanner. It's kind of >>>>>>>>>> like how there's an NNTP reader that's actually good for iOS, >>>>>>>>>> sounds great but I'd have to buy an iPhone to use it. Deal- >>>>>>>>>> breaker, there. Samsung's Galaxy S devices are unmatched in >>>>>>>>>> usability on the go, which is the purpose of a smartphone to >>>>>>>>>> me, when I'm at home I prefer to use a PC.So you have a single-use piece of equipment that takes up space >>>>>>>>> all the time.
Got it.
It's stored out of the way unless I'm actively using it, it's >>>>>>>> USB- connected so I can plug it in only when it's needed.
You have to store it somewhere.
It doesn't magically take up no space when you're not using it: >>>>>>> it only takes up less important space.
It's on top of a storage box behind my desk, I never use that
space at all.
You use it for your scanner...
...and if your scanner wasn't there, you could use it for something >>>>> else.
The whole reason the box it's on top of is there is because it's out
of the way. If I removed the furniture back there I could move my
desk further toward the wall, but it's not even my furniture, it was
just in the room when I moved in. Thus I'm literally losing no
space by putting the box and the scanner there.
You're losing the space the scanner occupies when it's not in use.
You're losing the space you need to keep clear on your deskt to use
the scanner...
...or you're losing the time to clear that space any time you want to
use it.
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the computer so
that the scanner can rest on something and connect by USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of your scanner.
Got it.
I wouldn't, frankly, find it easier to use a smartphone camera to do
the scanning,
You would immediately find it so if it work on Android as well as it
works on an iPhone.
impressive though Apple's method is (and good for people who don't ownNever heard of file transfer?
a flatbed scanner). I don't really want the image in my phone, I want
to be able to use Paint.NET to manipulate it.
Or cloud storage?
On 10/28/2025 4:49 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:59:48 PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<Ug9MQ.611348$Tux4.113079@fx11.iad>:
On 10/28/2025 3:28 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 12:08:35 PM MST, "Kelly Phillips" wrote
[who could care less]>>>Support your claims or admit you can't.
Kelly's whole purpose in your group is to troll, this is just more of
the same, all I've ever seen him/her do. To "disgrace their uniform"
if they ever wore one is on them.
Sadly there are a lot like that. My stalker (if I mention his name he
will use that as an excuse to follow me here), Pothead, Gremlin, etc.
They WANT to cause harm. They have no desire to be civil or have a
conversation in good faith. You, me, David, Apd, Mike Easter, and many
others might disagree -- sometimes strongly -- but our goal is not to
harm the other.
You and I are friends even though I talk smack about your gear, but I
don't get loud with you because you debate in a very respectful and even humble manner. Alan is the one acting like he works for Apple secretly
and shit.
Now you go and find some old source code you don't understand and ask
for Snits advice concerning it? The idiot didn't even realize what
you were asking about and provided you no answer.
On 27/10/2025 04:42, Gremlin wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, 23 Oct
2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question!Ā If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to take a
photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott Arizona is
even worse. Just a heads up.
You really ARE a bad loser, Dustin J. Cook. :-(
On 27/10/2025 04:42, Gremlin wrote:
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net
Sun, 26 Oct 2025 22:38:50 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an
electrician!
You remember things incorrectly then, David. I was *already in the
trade* long before I ever met you.
Can you prove that?
You got pissed with me because I criticized the fact that when your air conditioning unit failed you bought a new one rather than
attempt to repair the failed unit.
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mm8oucF43mmU1@mid.individual.net Mon,
27 Oct 2025 08:31:08 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 27/10/2025 04:42, Gremlin wrote:
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net
Sun, 26 Oct 2025 22:38:50 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an
electrician!
You remember things incorrectly then, David. I was *already in the
trade* long before I ever met you.
Can you prove that?
Do you really think it's doing you any good to lie your ass off about this
of all things?
On 10/28/2025 9:04 PM, Alan wrote:
I did use OS
Nope. I'm nothing that you claim something is "devoid of features"
without actually having any you can mention.
X/ macOS on a Snow Leopard MacBook I purchased new, wanting to have
the experience for myself (and I'd gotten some inheritance money
that made it a fairly trivial expense, though even at $800 on sale,
$848 with Maryland sales tax, that was expensive for its specs). I >>>>> liked it in some ways, but Finder really was subpar. You expecting >>>>> me to remember in detail so long later is you avoiding the topic.
I expect an honest person to acknowledge that what you used 16 years
ago doesn't necessarily apply today...
...but you're not an honest person...
...are you?
I'm sure they've tinkered with it over the years, yeah, but that
doesn't mean they've made it as robust as Windows' File Explorer, or
the better Linux file browsers.
Again. What makes Windows File Explorer or any Linux file browser...
...more ROBUST?
You've already admitted you don't know anything about any macOS newer
than 15 years old.
Tabs,
right-click features
, etc.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU>
'The XNU kernel
Developer Apple Inc. Written in C, C++, assembly >>>>>>>>>> language OS family Unix-like, Unix[1] Working state
Current Source model Open-source Initial release
December 1996; 28 years ago'
You lose.
Read your own link. It says very clearly they imported the >>>>>>>>> code from the Mach kernel, and they had to buy out another
company to get the rights to it.
And that was more than 30 years ago.
You imagine that the kernel they're running now is the same?
Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch, >>>>>>> as MS and GNU/Torvalds did.
How do you know MS did that?
You know that for Windows NT (which is still what the current
Windows OS is under the hood), Microsoft hired away the staff from >>>>>> DEC who built VMS and heavily borrowed from the design of VMS,
right?
They hired Cutler and probably others, yeah, I know that. So what?
So they built on what those people had already done before they came
to Microsoft.
They built on the minds that had done it before, yeah, that's not the
same as buying out DEC.
Actually, if you had done any research into it, you'd see they stole
wholesale from what DEC built.
No, I wouldn't see that because it's false. They at worst did a clean- room implementation of Cutler's abstract OS concept. It was not
stolen. That they settled the lawsuit only says they had so much money
it wasn't worth fighting. They'd have won the legal battle, but why bother? Windows NT turned into Windows XP and Windows 7, both of which sold a lot of retail copies, big bucks for MS. Let the crybaby former employers of Cutler get their settlement.
Why didn't Apple hire anyone themselves, instead buying out NeXT,
which in turn didn't create the base code for the kernel? Oh,
Isn't buying out NeXT the same as hiring the people who worked for it>
Right but they didn't create Mach from scratch, either.
So what? Everyone builds on what has gone before.
You only seem to think it matters when it's Apple.
What did MS or Torvalds "build on what had gone before", source code-wise?
I asked how far he got, and you failed to answer.because they're inferior, obviously. Linus Torvalds got a 386
manual and worked independently, and look what that turned into.
Why couldn't Apple handle that? Because of their inferiority.
And how far did he get on his own?
That he released something that could be rounded out by the community
is an astonishing achievement, it was something GNU was able to
combine with their code to turn into a boot-able OS. It worked. To
this day, we call the product GNU/Linux as a result. Have others
contributed to the kernel? You bet, but Linus got the initial base
code done.
He got to a point where his kernel could be compiled and booted with
GNU's part. That's a massive achievement. And I already suggested that in my answer, you apparently didn't hear it.
But the point is that EVERY OS is the result of what has gone before.
It might be fair to say that Torvalds used the concept of a Unix kernel,
but he didn't use source code of anyone else's.
But you only seem to think that somehow makes macOS (and iOS) somehow
flawed.
Why is that...
...other than your naked hatred for that which you don't actually
understand, I mean?
I mean, yeah, I don't understand paying more to get less.
On 10/28/2025 9:23 PM, Alan wrote:
I bought a MacBook and ended up completely replacing its OS with
Windows 7. Admittedly, I tried using Boot Camp, but it required
fully shutting down one OS to boot the other, so I just said screw OS
X/macOS.
1. You could have used one of several products to run Windows in a
virtual machine:
Parallels for Mac was released in 2006.
VMWare Fusion was released in 2007
VirtualBox from Oracle was released in 2007 and was FREE.
On a two-core 2 GB RAM system? That's what Apple offered me, for a
*sale price* of $800, in 2010, with Snow Leopard. Unbelievable.
2. How did having to restart disadvantage you anyway?
I wanted to be able to hibernate one OS and load the other, and vice versa. Boot Camp didn't support that.
AndMuch more incredible is that you cannot make a cogent argument about
when I gave the device to a laptop-enthused friend, it died a
miserable death from its piddly specs running Windows. Despite
costing $800 plus sales tax, and that was a *good* price at the time,
the list price was $1000, and online "street price" was over $900.
Incredible you defend this Apple cult.
how it is actually worse in any single way.
Whenever pressed to support one of your claims...
...you pivot!
Can you imagine the specs I'd get on an $800 laptop in those days, fromAnd another pivot!
a PC OEM?
On 10/28/2025 9:08 PM, Alan wrote:
I'm talking about putting the effort into thoughtful design of the
UI. Microsoft prioritizes that in a clever and innovative way,
it's intuitive. Apple simply lacks that ability.
So you admit that you have nothing to show that macOS is any less
"robust" than Windows.
Got it.
I don't have an example not having used a Mac in so long, but I could
easily find examples if I tried one again.
And yet you make the argument while admitting you have no actual
knowledge.
Got it.
Why would I believe it's changed? Apple's always been this way, back to the late '70s. It didn't begin with macOS. It's not the "get shit
done" system.
What about Microsoft's Windows UI is any more intuitive than macOS?
Is it the way that they created a "Settings" app for Windows 10...
...but still made you use Control Panel for some things?
Control Panel deals with deeper settings that a lot of people never
think about, the Windows 10/11 Settings interface has replaced the
more general functions of Control Panel because time has marched on,
MS is forever changing things. It doesn't impede me at all, in fact
I never much liked Apple's way of managing settings.
In what way? What SPECIFICALLY did you not like?
It was a minor concern, ultimately, but the panel of settings wasn't as accessible as I find in Windows and typical Linux.
I was at the Apple Store today, in fact, my mom was there >>>>>>>>>>> to deal with a couple things with her devices, I noticed >>>>>>>>>>> their mouse on display appeared to only have one button, >>>>>>>>>>> contrary to your claim earlier.
You imagine that one surface can't have two areas that you can >>>>>>>>>> click?
How unimaginative you are.
I imagine that's true, actually, but it looks funky if so.
Actually, it looks clean.
"Clean" maybe, but functional less so.
In what way is it less functional?
For a right-hander, the right index finger executes a left-click, >>>>>> and the middle finger executes a right-click.
Where is the loss of functionality?
"Loss of", not exactly, but it's counterintuitive to look at the
casing of the mouse and not see two buttons when there actually are >>>>> two. My Logitech mouse is similar in shape and simplicity (which
is one good thing about Apple's design, I acknowledge), but it
clearly shows a left and right button.
Once you know there are two buttons and the natural design of the
device has your two fingers falling where those buttons are...
...why is there any advantage to seeing them?
Does seeing them help you use them?
No.
In other words, Apple does this showy trick to make the mouse look
cool in the store, and you have to defend it on Usenet because you're
husbanded to their junk. It's amazing.
Nope. No physical separation between the buttons means one less place
you need to worry about dirt getting inside the device.
That's actually not a terrible argument. I haven't had a particular problem with Logitech's design, though.
The hilarious part is that there are a couple of things you could
actually talk about that are plainly stupid about the design of the
Apple mouse, but you're too dim to even see them.
"Too dim"? I literally am not familiar with the device. I don't wishSo being so unfamiliar with the device that you didn't even know you
to be, either. I wrote off Apple a long time ago.
On 10/28/2025 9:24 PM, Alan wrote:
Now you're making shit up.this ability to scan documents with an iPhone only impresses >>>>>>>>>>> me so much because I have a flatbed scanner. It's kind of >>>>>>>>>>> like how there's an NNTP reader that's actually good for iOS, >>>>>>>>>>> sounds great but I'd have to buy an iPhone to use it. Deal- >>>>>>>>>>> breaker, there. Samsung's Galaxy S devices are unmatched in >>>>>>>>>>> usability on the go, which is the purpose of a smartphone to >>>>>>>>>>> me, when I'm at home I prefer to use a PC.So you have a single-use piece of equipment that takes up >>>>>>>>>> space all the time.
Got it.
It's stored out of the way unless I'm actively using it, it's >>>>>>>>> USB- connected so I can plug it in only when it's needed.
You have to store it somewhere.
It doesn't magically take up no space when you're not using it: >>>>>>>> it only takes up less important space.
It's on top of a storage box behind my desk, I never use that
space at all.
You use it for your scanner...
...and if your scanner wasn't there, you could use it for
something else.
The whole reason the box it's on top of is there is because it's
out of the way. If I removed the furniture back there I could move >>>>> my desk further toward the wall, but it's not even my furniture, it >>>>> was just in the room when I moved in. Thus I'm literally losing no >>>>> space by putting the box and the scanner there.
You're losing the space the scanner occupies when it's not in use.
You're losing the space you need to keep clear on your deskt to use
the scanner...
...or you're losing the time to clear that space any time you want
to use it.
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the computer
so that the scanner can rest on something and connect by USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of your
scanner.
Got it.
My extra chair is very lightweight, I just move it next to the computer
so that the scanner can connect. I move the chair frequently during the day and night, when charging my phone on the wireless pad behind my TV,
or getting into bed.
I wouldn't, frankly, find it easier to use a smartphone camera to do
the scanning,
You would immediately find it so if it work on Android as well as it
works on an iPhone.
No, I would not. I probably wouldn't notice it was a feature. I rather prefer using my scanner and PC.
impressive though Apple's method is (and good for people who don'tNever heard of file transfer?
own a flatbed scanner). I don't really want the image in my phone, I
want to be able to use Paint.NET to manipulate it.
Or cloud storage?
How is that more convenient than just scanning it into a file on my SSD?How is it less convenient if you scan to a cloud location that is automatically synched with your SSD?
On Tue, 10/28/2025 6:03 PM, Alan wrote:[...]
[...]You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
Windows suspends applications, and saves them in memory. This
is similar to the concept of Terminate and Stay Resident. The
application re-inflates when referred to a second time. The
memory and the suspended status can be retired, under memory
pressure. Not many things, in an average Task Manager display,
are suspended like that.
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 10/28/2025 6:03 PM, Alan wrote:[...]
[...]You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
Windows suspends applications, and saves them in memory. This
is similar to the concept of Terminate and Stay Resident. The
application re-inflates when referred to a second time. The
memory and the suspended status can be retired, under memory
pressure. Not many things, in an average Task Manager display,
are suspended like that.
Exactly. For at least four decades and probably longer, Real OSs (TM)
have kept things in memory unless/until memory pressure is that high
that memory occupied by 'old'/not-in-*active*-use code/data has to be
freed to bring in new stuff.
BSD (what again is macOS based on?) has been doing this since whenever
I can remember. (What was it? minfree? lotsfree?)
Apparently Alan is not aware of how a 'modern' OS - i.e. also macOS
and Windows (and Linux) - actually works and 'hence' he's blaming
Windows for a 'problem' which doesn't exist.
[...]
On 2025-10-29 07:10, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 10/28/2025 6:03 PM, Alan wrote:[...]
[...]You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
Windows suspends applications, and saves them in memory. This
is similar to the concept of Terminate and Stay Resident. The
application re-inflates when referred to a second time. The
memory and the suspended status can be retired, under memory
pressure. Not many things, in an average Task Manager display,
are suspended like that.
Exactly. For at least four decades and probably longer, Real OSs (TM)
have kept things in memory unless/until memory pressure is that high
that memory occupied by 'old'/not-in-*active*-use code/data has to be
freed to bring in new stuff.
BSD (what again is macOS based on?) has been doing this since whenever
I can remember. (What was it? minfree? lotsfree?)
Apparently Alan is not aware of how a 'modern' OS - i.e. also macOS
and Windows (and Linux) - actually works and 'hence' he's blaming
Windows for a 'problem' which doesn't exist.
[...]
If Apple were to create an item which wipes your ass for you but
requires you to speak the first 50 digits of Pi backwards each time you
use it, Alan would mock us for preferring to just use toilet paper or a bidet.
I'll bet that Alan is the only person on Earth who bought the Apple
Vision Pro.
I'm sure they've tinkered with it [Mac Finder] over the years, yeah, but that
doesn't mean they've made it as robust as Windows' File Explorer, or
the better Linux file browsers.
Again. What makes Windows File Explorer or any Linux file browser...
...more ROBUST?
You've already admitted you don't know anything about any macOS newer
than 15 years old.
Tabs,
Which the Finder has.
right-click features
Which the Finder has.
, etc.
So far you're 0-2.
So they built on what those people had already done before theyYou imagine that the [macOS] kernel they're running now is the same? >>>>>>>>Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch, >>>>>>>> as MS and GNU/Torvalds did.
How do you know MS did that?
You know that for Windows NT (which is still what the current
Windows OS is under the hood), Microsoft hired away the staff from >>>>>>> DEC who built VMS and heavily borrowed from the design of VMS,
right?
They hired Cutler and probably others, yeah, I know that. So what? >>>>>
came to Microsoft.
They built on the minds that had done it before, yeah, that's not
the same as buying out DEC.
Actually, if you had done any research into it, you'd see they stole
wholesale from what DEC built.
No, I wouldn't see that because it's false. They at worst did a
clean- room implementation of Cutler's abstract OS concept. It was not
You have no idea whether or not that's true.
But how could you do a clean room implementation...
...when you've hired the same software architect?
stolen. That they settled the lawsuit only says they had so much
money it wasn't worth fighting. They'd have won the legal battle, but
why bother? Windows NT turned into Windows XP and Windows 7, both of
which sold a lot of retail copies, big bucks for MS. Let the crybaby
former employers of Cutler get their settlement.
And you attempt (very poorly) to shift the goalposts.
Your point was that Apple did something different when they created macOS.
They didn't.
Right but they didn't create Mach from scratch, either.Why didn't Apple hire anyone themselves, instead buying out NeXT,
which in turn didn't create the base code for the kernel? Oh,
Isn't buying out NeXT the same as hiring the people who worked for it> >>>>
So what? Everyone builds on what has gone before.
You only seem to think it matters when it's Apple.
What did MS or Torvalds "build on what had gone before", source code-
wise?
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
Torvalds built on what already existed for Unix.
I asked how far he got, and you failed to answer.because they're inferior, obviously. Linus Torvalds got a 386
manual and worked independently, and look what that turned into.
Why couldn't Apple handle that? Because of their inferiority.
And how far did he get on his own?
That he released something that could be rounded out by the
community is an astonishing achievement, it was something GNU was
able to combine with their code to turn into a boot-able OS. It
worked. To this day, we call the product GNU/Linux as a result.
Have others contributed to the kernel? You bet, but Linus got the
initial base code done.
He got to a point where his kernel could be compiled and booted with
GNU's part. That's a massive achievement. And I already suggested
that in my answer, you apparently didn't hear it.
Which has nothing to do with what Linux has become.
But the point is that EVERY OS is the result of what has gone before.
It might be fair to say that Torvalds used the concept of a Unix
kernel, but he didn't use source code of anyone else's.
Which is relevant... ...why?
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with left in
the macOS kernel?
But you only seem to think that somehow makes macOS (and iOS) somehow
flawed.
Why is that...
...other than your naked hatred for that which you don't actually
understand, I mean?
I mean, yeah, I don't understand paying more to get less.
Another failure to address what was said.
Got it.
I bought a MacBook and ended up completely replacing its OS with
Windows 7. Admittedly, I tried using Boot Camp, but it required
fully shutting down one OS to boot the other, so I just said screw
OS X/macOS.
1. You could have used one of several products to run Windows in a
virtual machine:
Parallels for Mac was released in 2006.
VMWare Fusion was released in 2007
VirtualBox from Oracle was released in 2007 and was FREE.
On a two-core 2 GB RAM system? That's what Apple offered me, for a
*sale price* of $800, in 2010, with Snow Leopard. Unbelievable.
2. How did having to restart disadvantage you anyway?
I wanted to be able to hibernate one OS and load the other, and vice
versa. Boot Camp didn't support that.
Why did you want that?
Or are you now just looking for something you can claim as a problem?
And another pivot!AndMuch more incredible is that you cannot make a cogent argument about
when I gave the device to a laptop-enthused friend, it died a
miserable death from its piddly specs running Windows. Despite
costing $800 plus sales tax, and that was a *good* price at the
time, the list price was $1000, and online "street price" was over
$900. Incredible you defend this Apple cult.
how it is actually worse in any single way.
Whenever pressed to support one of your claims...
...you pivot!
Can you imagine the specs I'd get on an $800 laptop in those days,
from a PC OEM?
I'm talking about putting the effort into thoughtful design of the >>>>>> UI. Microsoft prioritizes that in a clever and innovative way,
it's intuitive. Apple simply lacks that ability.
So you admit that you have nothing to show that macOS is any less
"robust" than Windows.
Got it.
I don't have an example not having used a Mac in so long, but I
could easily find examples if I tried one again.
And yet you make the argument while admitting you have no actual
knowledge.
Got it.
Why would I believe it's changed? Apple's always been this way, back
to the late '70s. It didn't begin with macOS. It's not the "get shit
done" system.
Wow. Talk about not knowing YOUR "shit".
What makes Apple's products popular is that they are all about getting things done.
I understand that Windows 10 and 11 are massively changed from Windows
Vista (released in 2008).
Why can't you imagine that macOS is massively changed from Snow Leopard (released in 1999)?
Are you really that stupid?
What about Microsoft's Windows UI is any more intuitive than macOS?
Is it the way that they created a "Settings" app for Windows 10...
...but still made you use Control Panel for some things?
Control Panel deals with deeper settings that a lot of people never
think about, the Windows 10/11 Settings interface has replaced the
more general functions of Control Panel because time has marched on,
MS is forever changing things. It doesn't impede me at all, in fact >>>> I never much liked Apple's way of managing settings.
In what way? What SPECIFICALLY did you not like?
It was a minor concern, ultimately, but the panel of settings wasn't
as accessible as I find in Windows and typical Linux.
In what way?
Windows: start Control Panel, then choose a category of settings, THEN choose a specific panel.
Mac OS: start System Preferences, and then just pick a panel.
Where is the difference?
So being so unfamiliar with the device that you didn't even know youThe hilarious part is that there are a couple of things you could
actually talk about that are plainly stupid about the design of the
Apple mouse, but you're too dim to even see them.
"Too dim"? I literally am not familiar with the device. I don't wish
to be, either. I wrote off Apple a long time ago.
could use it as a two-button mouse, you're arguing about how bad it is?
Yeah: you really ARE too dim.
You're losing the space the scanner occupies when it's not in use.
You're losing the space you need to keep clear on your deskt to use >>>>> the scanner...
...or you're losing the time to clear that space any time you want
to use it.
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the computer
so that the scanner can rest on something and connect by USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of your
scanner.
Got it.
My extra chair is very lightweight, I just move it next to the
computer so that the scanner can connect. I move the chair frequently
during the day and night, when charging my phone on the wireless pad
behind my TV, or getting into bed.
Right: you have to rearrange your furniture just to scan.
I wouldn't, frankly, find it easier to use a smartphone camera to do
the scanning,
You would immediately find it so if it work on Android as well as it
works on an iPhone.
No, I would not. I probably wouldn't notice it was a feature. I
rather prefer using my scanner and PC.
You're a terrible liar.
How is it less convenient if you scan to a cloud location that is automatically synched with your SSD?impressive though Apple's method is (and good for people who don'tNever heard of file transfer?
own a flatbed scanner). I don't really want the image in my phone,
I want to be able to use Paint.NET to manipulate it.
Or cloud storage?
How is that more convenient than just scanning it into a file on my SSD?
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:I'm aware that all the OS choices one has for a personal computer do that...
On Tue, 10/28/2025 6:03 PM, Alan wrote:[...]
[...]You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
Windows suspends applications, and saves them in memory. This
is similar to the concept of Terminate and Stay Resident. The
application re-inflates when referred to a second time. The
memory and the suspended status can be retired, under memory
pressure. Not many things, in an average Task Manager display,
are suspended like that.
Exactly. For at least four decades and probably longer, Real OSs (TM)
have kept things in memory unless/until memory pressure is that high
that memory occupied by 'old'/not-in-*active*-use code/data has to be
freed to bring in new stuff.
BSD (what again is macOS based on?) has been doing this since whenever
I can remember. (What was it? minfree? lotsfree?)
Apparently Alan is not aware of how a 'modern' OS - i.e. also macOS
and Windows (and Linux) - actually works and 'hence' he's blaming
Windows for a 'problem' which doesn't exist.
On 2025-10-29 07:10, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 10/28/2025 6:03 PM, Alan wrote:[...]
[...]You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
Windows suspends applications, and saves them in memory. This
is similar to the concept of Terminate and Stay Resident. The
application re-inflates when referred to a second time. The
memory and the suspended status can be retired, under memory
pressure. Not many things, in an average Task Manager display,
are suspended like that.
Exactly. For at least four decades and probably longer, Real OSs (TM) >> have kept things in memory unless/until memory pressure is that high
that memory occupied by 'old'/not-in-*active*-use code/data has to be
freed to bring in new stuff.
BSD (what again is macOS based on?) has been doing this since whenever >> I can remember. (What was it? minfree? lotsfree?)
Apparently Alan is not aware of how a 'modern' OS - i.e. also macOS
and Windows (and Linux) - actually works and 'hence' he's blaming
Windows for a 'problem' which doesn't exist.
[...]
If Apple were to create an item which wipes your ass for you but
requires you to speak the first 50 digits of Pi backwards each time you
use it, Alan would mock us for preferring to just use toilet paper or a bidet.
I'll bet that Alan is the only person on Earth who bought the Apple
Vision Pro.
On 2025-10-29 04:10, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 10/28/2025 6:03 PM, Alan wrote:
I'm aware that all the OS choices one has for a personal computer do[...]You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
Windows suspends applications, and saves them in memory. This
is similar to the concept of Terminate and Stay Resident. The
application re-inflates when referred to a second time. The
memory and the suspended status can be retired, under memory
pressure. Not many things, in an average Task Manager display,
are suspended like that.
Exactly. For at least four decades and probably longer, Real OSs (TM) >> have kept things in memory unless/until memory pressure is that high
that memory occupied by 'old'/not-in-*active*-use code/data has to be
freed to bring in new stuff.
BSD (what again is macOS based on?) has been doing this since whenever >> I can remember. (What was it? minfree? lotsfree?)
Apparently Alan is not aware of how a 'modern' OS - i.e. also macOS
and Windows (and Linux) - actually works and 'hence' he's blaming
Windows for a 'problem' which doesn't exist.
that...
...including macOS.
The argument was that macOS is somehow inferior because it uses a
different paradigm for dealing with application termination.
And the argument--once again--boils down to:
"I'm not used to it, so it must be bad".
On 10/29/2025 12:37 AM, Alan wrote:
I'm sure they've tinkered with it [Mac Finder] over the years,
yeah, but that doesn't mean they've made it as robust as Windows'
File Explorer, or the better Linux file browsers.
Again. What makes Windows File Explorer or any Linux file browser...
...more ROBUST?
You've already admitted you don't know anything about any macOS
newer than 15 years old.
Tabs,
Which the Finder has.
Probably attempting to stay competitive.
right-click features
Which the Finder has.
I may have to look at this again, to see what they've actually done with it. Nothing makes me think it'd be as good as in Windows, though.
, etc.
So far you're 0-2.
Maybe, or maybe you're exaggerating their progress.
You have no idea whether or not that's true.So they built on what those people had already done before theyYou imagine that the [macOS] kernel they're running now is the >>>>>>>>>> same?
Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch, >>>>>>>>> as MS and GNU/Torvalds did.
How do you know MS did that?
You know that for Windows NT (which is still what the current
Windows OS is under the hood), Microsoft hired away the staff from >>>>>>>> DEC who built VMS and heavily borrowed from the design of VMS, >>>>>>>> right?
They hired Cutler and probably others, yeah, I know that. So what? >>>>>>
came to Microsoft.
They built on the minds that had done it before, yeah, that's not
the same as buying out DEC.
Actually, if you had done any research into it, you'd see they stole
wholesale from what DEC built.
No, I wouldn't see that because it's false. They at worst did a
clean- room implementation of Cutler's abstract OS concept. It was not >>
It's historical fact, I know it's true and that you should too.
But how could you do a clean room implementation...
...when you've hired the same software architect?
Did they use DEC's source code?
stolen. That they settled the lawsuit only says they had so much
money it wasn't worth fighting. They'd have won the legal battle,
but why bother? Windows NT turned into Windows XP and Windows 7,
both of which sold a lot of retail copies, big bucks for MS. Let the
crybaby former employers of Cutler get their settlement.
And you attempt (very poorly) to shift the goalposts.
Your point was that Apple did something different when they created
macOS.
They didn't.
It's vastly different. Apple bought out a company that already had something, and they in turn didn't create from scratch.
Why didn't Apple hire anyone themselves, instead buying out NeXT, >>>>>>> which in turn didn't create the base code for the kernel? Oh,
Isn't buying out NeXT the same as hiring the people who worked for >>>>>> it>
Right but they didn't create Mach from scratch, either.
So what? Everyone builds on what has gone before.
You only seem to think it matters when it's Apple.
What did MS or Torvalds "build on what had gone before", source code-
wise?
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
Nope.
Torvalds built on what already existed for Unix.
False.
I asked how far he got, and you failed to answer.because they're inferior, obviously. Linus Torvalds got a 386
manual and worked independently, and look what that turned into. >>>>>>> Why couldn't Apple handle that? Because of their inferiority.
And how far did he get on his own?
That he released something that could be rounded out by the
community is an astonishing achievement, it was something GNU was
able to combine with their code to turn into a boot-able OS. It
worked. To this day, we call the product GNU/Linux as a result.
Have others contributed to the kernel? You bet, but Linus got the >>>>> initial base code done.
He got to a point where his kernel could be compiled and booted with
GNU's part. That's a massive achievement. And I already suggested
that in my answer, you apparently didn't hear it.
Which has nothing to do with what Linux has become.
It's been a long time, that's hardly relevant. GNU/Linux booted and performed as a basic system from the beginning.
But the point is that EVERY OS is the result of what has gone before.
It might be fair to say that Torvalds used the concept of a Unix
kernel, but he didn't use source code of anyone else's.
Which is relevant... ...why?
It's not copying unless it involves source code.
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with left in
the macOS kernel?
They may have replaced code with newer code, that doesn't mean they did
it from scratch, they had the original code being replaced to go from.
But you only seem to think that somehow makes macOS (and iOS)
somehow flawed.
Why is that...
...other than your naked hatred for that which you don't actually
understand, I mean?
I mean, yeah, I don't understand paying more to get less.
Another failure to address what was said.
Got it.
I didn't say that the macOS/iOS kernels are flawed, I think the factThat's exactly what you implied: that Apple's product was somehow
Apple had to build on existing code shows it's lacking in imagination
for development, though.
On 10/29/2025 12:46 AM, Alan wrote:
I'm talking about putting the effort into thoughtful design of
the UI. Microsoft prioritizes that in a clever and innovative >>>>>>> way, it's intuitive. Apple simply lacks that ability.
So you admit that you have nothing to show that macOS is any less >>>>>> "robust" than Windows.
Got it.
I don't have an example not having used a Mac in so long, but I
could easily find examples if I tried one again.
And yet you make the argument while admitting you have no actual
knowledge.
Got it.
Why would I believe it's changed? Apple's always been this way, back
to the late '70s. It didn't begin with macOS. It's not the "get
shit done" system.
Wow. Talk about not knowing YOUR "shit".
What makes Apple's products popular is that they are all about getting
things done.
Not by comparison to other systems.
I understand that Windows 10 and 11 are massively changed from Windows
Vista (released in 2008).
Why can't you imagine that macOS is massively changed from Snow
Leopard (released in 1999)?
I think you meant 2009, but yeah I understand Apple occasionally tries
to keep up.
Are you really that stupid?
Apple is always behind the curve.
What about Microsoft's Windows UI is any more intuitive than macOS? >>>>>>
Is it the way that they created a "Settings" app for Windows 10... >>>>>>
...but still made you use Control Panel for some things?
Control Panel deals with deeper settings that a lot of people never >>>>> think about, the Windows 10/11 Settings interface has replaced the
more general functions of Control Panel because time has marched
on, MS is forever changing things. It doesn't impede me at all, in >>>>> fact I never much liked Apple's way of managing settings.
In what way? What SPECIFICALLY did you not like?
It was a minor concern, ultimately, but the panel of settings wasn't
as accessible as I find in Windows and typical Linux.
In what way?
Windows: start Control Panel, then choose a category of settings, THEN
choose a specific panel.
You can make it so it goes directly to the full list, that's one of the first things I do.
Mac OS: start System Preferences, and then just pick a panel.
Where is the difference?
Again, it was a minor concern, but they were less accessible.
So being so unfamiliar with the device that you didn't even know youThe hilarious part is that there are a couple of things you could
actually talk about that are plainly stupid about the design of the
Apple mouse, but you're too dim to even see them.
"Too dim"? I literally am not familiar with the device. I don't
wish to be, either. I wrote off Apple a long time ago.
could use it as a two-button mouse, you're arguing about how bad it is?
Yeah: you really ARE too dim.
You were expecting to me to have hands-on experience with it, I don'tI'd be expecting you not to make outlandish claims that you should know
like Apple products so that's unlikely.
On 10/29/2025 12:47 AM, Alan wrote:
You're losing the space the scanner occupies when it's not in use. >>>>>>
You're losing the space you need to keep clear on your deskt to
use the scanner...
...or you're losing the time to clear that space any time you want >>>>>> to use it.
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the computer >>>>> so that the scanner can rest on something and connect by USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of your
scanner.
Got it.
My extra chair is very lightweight, I just move it next to the
computer so that the scanner can connect. I move the chair
frequently during the day and night, when charging my phone on the
wireless pad behind my TV, or getting into bed.
Right: you have to rearrange your furniture just to scan.
That's a really moronic interpretation. I explained in what should be needless detail, you stick to your argumentative tactics.
I wouldn't, frankly, find it easier to use a smartphone camera to
do the scanning,
You would immediately find it so if it work on Android as well as it
works on an iPhone.
No, I would not. I probably wouldn't notice it was a feature. I
rather prefer using my scanner and PC.
You're a terrible liar.
You don't know how I operate, so you call me a liar, even when I tried
to explain. You're the liar.
How is it less convenient if you scan to a cloud location that isimpressive though Apple's method is (and good for people who don'tNever heard of file transfer?
own a flatbed scanner). I don't really want the image in my phone, >>>>> I want to be able to use Paint.NET to manipulate it.
Or cloud storage?
How is that more convenient than just scanning it into a file on my SSD?
automatically synched with your SSD?
It's less that than that I don't want to do it that way, as I said.No. YOU brought up "convenience", sunshine.
On 10/29/2025 12:57 PM, Alan wrote:
On 2025-10-29 04:10, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 10/28/2025 6:03 PM, Alan wrote:
I'm aware that all the OS choices one has for a personal computer do[...]You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
Windows suspends applications, and saves them in memory. This
is similar to the concept of Terminate and Stay Resident. The
application re-inflates when referred to a second time. The
memory and the suspended status can be retired, under memory
pressure. Not many things, in an average Task Manager display,
are suspended like that.
Exactly. For at least four decades and probably longer, Real OSs (TM) >>> have kept things in memory unless/until memory pressure is that high
that memory occupied by 'old'/not-in-*active*-use code/data has to be
freed to bring in new stuff.
BSD (what again is macOS based on?) has been doing this since
whenever
I can remember. (What was it? minfree? lotsfree?)
Apparently Alan is not aware of how a 'modern' OS - i.e. also macOS >>> and Windows (and Linux) - actually works and 'hence' he's blaming
Windows for a 'problem' which doesn't exist.
that...
...including macOS.
The argument was that macOS is somehow inferior because it uses a
different paradigm for dealing with application termination.
And the argument--once again--boils down to:
"I'm not used to it, so it must be bad".
Your excuse is always that Apple is just different, the question you
haven't addressed is *why* that would be, it couldn't be they're just quirky, oh no, it must have some rational basis that no one but AppleIs Linux the same as Windows?
drones can see.
I'm sure they've tinkered with it [Mac Finder] over the years,
yeah, but that doesn't mean they've made it as robust as Windows' >>>>>> File Explorer, or the better Linux file browsers.
Again. What makes Windows File Explorer or any Linux file browser... >>>>>
...more ROBUST?
You've already admitted you don't know anything about any macOS
newer than 15 years old.
Tabs,
Which the Finder has.
Probably attempting to stay competitive.
No acknowledgement that you had no clue.
The Finder got tabs back in 2013.
right-click features
Which the Finder has.
I may have to look at this again, to see what they've actually done
with it. Nothing makes me think it'd be as good as in Windows, though.
Nothing seems to make you THINK...
...ever.
You have no idea whether or not that's true.So they built on what those people had already done before they >>>>>>> came to Microsoft.You imagine that the [macOS] kernel they're running now is >>>>>>>>>>> the same?
Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch, >>>>>>>>>> as MS and GNU/Torvalds did.
How do you know MS did that?
You know that for Windows NT (which is still what the current >>>>>>>>> Windows OS is under the hood), Microsoft hired away the staff from >>>>>>>>> DEC who built VMS and heavily borrowed from the design of VMS, >>>>>>>>> right?
They hired Cutler and probably others, yeah, I know that. So what? >>>>>>>
They built on the minds that had done it before, yeah, that's not >>>>>> the same as buying out DEC.
Actually, if you had done any research into it, you'd see they
stole wholesale from what DEC built.
No, I wouldn't see that because it's false. They at worst did a
clean- room implementation of Cutler's abstract OS concept. It was not >>>
It's historical fact, I know it's true and that you should too.
No. It is NOT.
It literally cannot be a "clean-room implementation" if you hire people
who worked on the previous product.
But how could you do a clean room implementation...
...when you've hired the same software architect?
Did they use DEC's source code?
It doesn't matter. They used people who WORKED on DEC's code.
'In August 1988, Bill Gates hired Cutler. One of Cutler's conditions for moving to Microsoft was that he could bring around 20 former Digital employees with him, including several Prism hardware engineers. '
stolen. That they settled the lawsuit only says they had so much
money it wasn't worth fighting. They'd have won the legal battle,
but why bother? Windows NT turned into Windows XP and Windows 7,
both of which sold a lot of retail copies, big bucks for MS. Let
the crybaby former employers of Cutler get their settlement.
And you attempt (very poorly) to shift the goalposts.
Your point was that Apple did something different when they created
macOS.
They didn't.
It's vastly different. Apple bought out a company that already had
something, and they in turn didn't create from scratch.
Almost nothing is made from scratch.
It only seems to bother you when Apple is involved.
Why didn't Apple hire anyone themselves, instead buying out NeXT, >>>>>>>> which in turn didn't create the base code for the kernel? Oh, >>>>>>>Isn't buying out NeXT the same as hiring the people who worked
for it>
Right but they didn't create Mach from scratch, either.
So what? Everyone builds on what has gone before.
You only seem to think it matters when it's Apple.
What did MS or Torvalds "build on what had gone before", source
code- wise?
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
Nope.
Yup. Absolutely yup.
'NT and VMS
Most of NT's core designers had worked on and with VMS at Digital; some
had worked directly with Cutler. How could these developers prevent
their VMS design decisions from affecting their design and
implementation of NT? Many users believe that NT's developers carried concepts from VMS to NT, but most don't know just how similar NT and VMS
are at the kernel level'
'VMS doesn't have different OS personalities, as NT does, but its kernel
and Executive subsystems are clear predecessors to NT's. Digital
developers wrote the VMS kernel almost entirely in VAX assembly
language. To be portable across different CPU architectures, Microsoft developers wrote NT's kernel almost entirely in C. In developing NT,
these designers rewrote VMS in C, cleaning up, tuning, tweaking, and
adding some new functionality and capabilities as they went.'
Did you read that:
'In developing NT, these [Microsoft] designers [hired from DEC] rewrote
VMS in C'
I asked how far he got, and you failed to answer.Linus Torvalds got a 386And how far did he get on his own?
manual and worked independently, and look what that turned into. >>>>>>>> Why couldn't Apple handle that? Because of their inferiority. >>>>>>>
That he released something that could be rounded out by the
community is an astonishing achievement, it was something GNU was >>>>>> able to combine with their code to turn into a boot-able OS. It >>>>>> worked. To this day, we call the product GNU/Linux as a result. >>>>>> Have others contributed to the kernel? You bet, but Linus got the >>>>>> initial base code done.
He got to a point where his kernel could be compiled and booted with
GNU's part. That's a massive achievement. And I already suggested >>>> that in my answer, you apparently didn't hear it.
Which has nothing to do with what Linux has become.
It's been a long time, that's hardly relevant. GNU/Linux booted and
performed as a basic system from the beginning.
Way to miss the point.
But the point is that EVERY OS is the result of what has gone before. >>>>It might be fair to say that Torvalds used the concept of a Unix
kernel, but he didn't use source code of anyone else's.
Which is relevant... ...why?
It's not copying unless it involves source code.
False.
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with left
in the macOS kernel?
They may have replaced code with newer code, that doesn't mean they
did it from scratch, they had the original code being replaced to go
from.
So now suddenly it does matter even if it doesn't involve source code.
Got it.
That's exactly what you implied: that Apple's product was somehowBut you only seem to think that somehow makes macOS (and iOS)
somehow flawed.
Why is that...
...other than your naked hatred for that which you don't actually
understand, I mean?
I mean, yeah, I don't understand paying more to get less.
Another failure to address what was said.
Got it.
I didn't say that the macOS/iOS kernels are flawed, I think the fact
Apple had to build on existing code shows it's lacking in imagination
for development, though.
inferior because "Apple doesn't even produce its kernel in-house"
On 10/29/2025 1:11 PM, Alan wrote:
I'm sure they've tinkered with it [Mac Finder] over the years,
yeah, but that doesn't mean they've made it as robust as Windows' >>>>>>> File Explorer, or the better Linux file browsers.
Again. What makes Windows File Explorer or any Linux file browser... >>>>>>
...more ROBUST?
You've already admitted you don't know anything about any macOS
newer than 15 years old.
Tabs,
Which the Finder has.
Probably attempting to stay competitive.
No acknowledgement that you had no clue.
The Finder got tabs back in 2013.
It was too late to sell me on their junk.
right-click features
Which the Finder has.
I may have to look at this again, to see what they've actually done
with it. Nothing makes me think it'd be as good as in Windows, though.
Nothing seems to make you THINK...
...ever.
Nope, I think a lot in fact. Mainly that I hate Apple overcharging people.
You imagine that the [macOS] kernel they're running now is >>>>>>>>>>>> the same?
Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch, >>>>>>>>>>> as MS and GNU/Torvalds did.
How do you know MS did that?
You know that for Windows NT (which is still what the current >>>>>>>>>> Windows OS is under the hood), Microsoft hired away the staff >>>>>>>>>> from
DEC who built VMS and heavily borrowed from the design of VMS, >>>>>>>>>> right?
They hired Cutler and probably others, yeah, I know that. So >>>>>>>>> what?
So they built on what those people had already done before they >>>>>>>> came to Microsoft.
They built on the minds that had done it before, yeah, that's not >>>>>>> the same as buying out DEC.
Actually, if you had done any research into it, you'd see they
stole wholesale from what DEC built.
No, I wouldn't see that because it's false. They at worst did a
clean- room implementation of Cutler's abstract OS concept. It was >>>>> not
You have no idea whether or not that's true.
It's historical fact, I know it's true and that you should too.
No. It is NOT.
It literally cannot be a "clean-room implementation" if you hire
people who worked on the previous product.
Their experience was useful to be sure, that's still not copying the previous source code.
But how could you do a clean room implementation...
...when you've hired the same software architect?
Did they use DEC's source code?
It doesn't matter. They used people who WORKED on DEC's code.
'In August 1988, Bill Gates hired Cutler. One of Cutler's conditions
for moving to Microsoft was that he could bring around 20 former
Digital employees with him, including several Prism hardware engineers. '
That still doesn't mean they copied it.
stolen. That they settled the lawsuit only says they had so much
money it wasn't worth fighting. They'd have won the legal battle, >>>>> but why bother? Windows NT turned into Windows XP and Windows 7,
both of which sold a lot of retail copies, big bucks for MS. Let
the crybaby former employers of Cutler get their settlement.
And you attempt (very poorly) to shift the goalposts.
Your point was that Apple did something different when they created
macOS.
They didn't.
It's vastly different. Apple bought out a company that already had
something, and they in turn didn't create from scratch.
Almost nothing is made from scratch.
It only seems to bother you when Apple is involved.
What *specific* thing did MS or Torvalds copy? Only abstract concepts,
no code. The lawsuit against MS was frivolous, yet they were generous enough to settle, secure enough in their success not to waste time with attorneys litigating it.
Why didn't Apple hire anyone themselves, instead buying out NeXT, >>>>>>>>> which in turn didn't create the base code for the kernel? Oh, >>>>>>>>Isn't buying out NeXT the same as hiring the people who worked >>>>>>>> for it>
Right but they didn't create Mach from scratch, either.
So what? Everyone builds on what has gone before.
You only seem to think it matters when it's Apple.
What did MS or Torvalds "build on what had gone before", source
code- wise?
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
Nope.
Yup. Absolutely yup.
'NT and VMS
Most of NT's core designers had worked on and with VMS at Digital;
some had worked directly with Cutler. How could these developers
prevent their VMS design decisions from affecting their design and
implementation of NT? Many users believe that NT's developers carried
concepts from VMS to NT, but most don't know just how similar NT and
VMS are at the kernel level'
'VMS doesn't have different OS personalities, as NT does, but its
kernel and Executive subsystems are clear predecessors to NT's.
Digital developers wrote the VMS kernel almost entirely in VAX
assembly language. To be portable across different CPU architectures,
Microsoft developers wrote NT's kernel almost entirely in C. In
developing NT, these designers rewrote VMS in C, cleaning up, tuning,
tweaking, and adding some new functionality and capabilities as they
went.'
Did you read that:
'In developing NT, these [Microsoft] designers [hired from DEC]
rewrote VMS in C'
You don't provide a source for that, big surprise, 'cause a lot of
people wrote BS about the topic, and now that includes you.
I asked how far he got, and you failed to answer.Linus Torvalds got a 386And how far did he get on his own?
manual and worked independently, and look what that turned into. >>>>>>>>> Why couldn't Apple handle that? Because of their inferiority. >>>>>>>>
That he released something that could be rounded out by the
community is an astonishing achievement, it was something GNU was >>>>>>> able to combine with their code to turn into a boot-able OS. It >>>>>>> worked. To this day, we call the product GNU/Linux as a result. >>>>>>> Have others contributed to the kernel? You bet, but Linus got >>>>>>> the initial base code done.
He got to a point where his kernel could be compiled and booted
with GNU's part. That's a massive achievement. And I already
suggested that in my answer, you apparently didn't hear it.
Which has nothing to do with what Linux has become.
It's been a long time, that's hardly relevant. GNU/Linux booted and
performed as a basic system from the beginning.
Way to miss the point.
You had one?
But the point is that EVERY OS is the result of what has gone before. >>>>>It might be fair to say that Torvalds used the concept of a Unix
kernel, but he didn't use source code of anyone else's.
Which is relevant... ...why?
It's not copying unless it involves source code.
False.
So an abstract concept can be patented? Oracle would love you, with
their frivolous lawsuit against Google, for the Java *concepts* being implemented independently for Android's API.
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with left
in the macOS kernel?
They may have replaced code with newer code, that doesn't mean they
did it from scratch, they had the original code being replaced to go
from.
So now suddenly it does matter even if it doesn't involve source code.
Got it.
No, it matters that they never worked from ground zero.
That's exactly what you implied: that Apple's product was somehowBut you only seem to think that somehow makes macOS (and iOS)
somehow flawed.
Why is that...
...other than your naked hatred for that which you don't actually >>>>>> understand, I mean?
I mean, yeah, I don't understand paying more to get less.
Another failure to address what was said.
Got it.
I didn't say that the macOS/iOS kernels are flawed, I think the fact
Apple had to build on existing code shows it's lacking in imagination
for development, though.
inferior because "Apple doesn't even produce its kernel in-house"
Well, it's not *because* of that, but it's an indicator they're inferior developers.Nope. It's an indicator that they had a good base from which to work.
Why would I believe it's [macOS has] changed? Apple's always been this way,
back to the late '70s. It didn't begin with macOS. It's not the
"get shit done" system.
Wow. Talk about not knowing YOUR "shit".
What makes Apple's products popular is that they are all about
getting things done.
Not by comparison to other systems.
And yet you cannot articulate how it is less productive.
I understand that Windows 10 and 11 are massively changed from
Windows Vista (released in 2008).
Why can't you imagine that macOS is massively changed from Snow
Leopard (released in 1999)?
I think you meant 2009, but yeah I understand Apple occasionally tries
to keep up.
Way to miss the point.
Are you really that stupid?
Apple is always behind the curve.
In what way?
In what way is the current Windows actually BETTER than macOS?
What about Microsoft's Windows UI is any more intuitive than macOS? >>>>>>>
Is it the way that they created a "Settings" app for Windows 10... >>>>>>>
...but still made you use Control Panel for some things?
Control Panel deals with deeper settings that a lot of people
never think about, the Windows 10/11 Settings interface has
replaced the more general functions of Control Panel because time >>>>>> has marched on, MS is forever changing things. It doesn't impede >>>>>> me at all, in fact I never much liked Apple's way of managing
settings.
In what way? What SPECIFICALLY did you not like?
It was a minor concern, ultimately, but the panel of settings wasn't
as accessible as I find in Windows and typical Linux.
In what way?
Windows: start Control Panel, then choose a category of settings,
THEN choose a specific panel.
You can make it so it goes directly to the full list, that's one of
the first things I do.
I'm completely aware of that...
...and isn't it completely idiotic that the first thing you need to do
is change a stupid choice that Microsoft made?
Mac OS: start System Preferences, and then just pick a panel.
Where is the difference?
Again, it was a minor concern, but they were less accessible.
In what way?
Launch an application, select a panel/pane.
I'd be expecting you not to make outlandish claims that you should knowSo being so unfamiliar with the device that you didn't even know youThe hilarious part is that there are a couple of things you could
actually talk about that are plainly stupid about the design of the >>>>> Apple mouse, but you're too dim to even see them.
"Too dim"? I literally am not familiar with the device. I don't
wish to be, either. I wrote off Apple a long time ago.
could use it as a two-button mouse, you're arguing about how bad it is?
Yeah: you really ARE too dim.
You were expecting to me to have hands-on experience with it, I don't
like Apple products so that's unlikely.
you can't actually know about...
...but that's what I'm expecting from an honest, thoughtful person...
...so I've learned I can't actually expect that from you.
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the
computer so that the scanner can rest on something and connect by >>>>>> USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of your
scanner.
Got it.
My extra chair is very lightweight, I just move it next to the
computer so that the scanner can connect. I move the chair
frequently during the day and night, when charging my phone on the
wireless pad behind my TV, or getting into bed.
Right: you have to rearrange your furniture just to scan.
That's a really moronic interpretation. I explained in what should be
needless detail, you stick to your argumentative tactics.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your normal setup.
My "scanner" is available at all times...
...takes up no additional space...
...and it goes with me everywhere.
I wouldn't, frankly, find it easier to use a smartphone camera to >>>>>> do the scanning,
You would immediately find it so if it work on Android as well as
it works on an iPhone.
No, I would not. I probably wouldn't notice it was a feature. I
rather prefer using my scanner and PC.
You're a terrible liar.
You don't know how I operate, so you call me a liar, even when I tried
to explain. You're the liar.
No. YOU brought up "convenience", sunshine.How is it less convenient if you scan to a cloud location that isimpressive though Apple's method is (and good for people who don't >>>>>> own a flatbed scanner). I don't really want the image in myNever heard of file transfer?
phone, I want to be able to use Paint.NET to manipulate it.
Or cloud storage?
How is that more convenient than just scanning it into a file on my
SSD?
automatically synched with your SSD?
It's less that than that I don't want to do it that way, as I said.
I scan on my phone, and the document is instantly available on my Mac.
That's as convenient as scanning using a scanner attached to my Mac.
The argument was that macOS is somehow inferior because it uses a
different paradigm for dealing with application termination.
And the argument--once again--boils down to:
"I'm not used to it, so it must be bad".
Your excuse is always that Apple is just different, the question you
It's not an excuse when you can't articulate why the difference is an
actual detriment.
haven't addressed is *why* that would be, it couldn't be they're justIs Linux the same as Windows?
quirky, oh no, it must have some rational basis that no one but Apple
drones can see.
No?
So the "question you haven't address is *why* that would be", right?
It couldn't be that Linux (or Windows) is "just quirky", could it?
Again. What makes Windows File Explorer or any Linux file browser... >>>>>>>
...more ROBUST [than Mac Finder]?
You've already admitted you don't know anything about any macOS >>>>>>> newer than 15 years old.
Tabs,
Which the Finder has.
Probably attempting to stay competitive.
No acknowledgement that you had no clue.
The Finder got tabs back in 2013.
It was too late to sell me on their junk.
And yet you still post as if you know what that "junk" does...
Your point was that Apple did something different when they created >>>>> macOS.
They didn't.
It's vastly different. Apple bought out a company that already had
something, and they in turn didn't create from scratch.
Almost nothing is made from scratch.
It only seems to bother you when Apple is involved.
What *specific* thing did MS or Torvalds copy? Only abstract
concepts, no code. The lawsuit against MS was frivolous, yet they
were generous enough to settle, secure enough in their success not to
waste time with attorneys litigating it.
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
Nope.
Yup. Absolutely yup.
'NT and VMS
Most of NT's core designers had worked on and with VMS at Digital;
some had worked directly with Cutler. How could these developers
prevent their VMS design decisions from affecting their design and
implementation of NT? Many users believe that NT's developers carried
concepts from VMS to NT, but most don't know just how similar NT and
VMS are at the kernel level'
'VMS doesn't have different OS personalities, as NT does, but its
kernel and Executive subsystems are clear predecessors to NT's.
Digital developers wrote the VMS kernel almost entirely in VAX
assembly language. To be portable across different CPU architectures,
Microsoft developers wrote NT's kernel almost entirely in C. In
developing NT, these designers rewrote VMS in C, cleaning up, tuning,
tweaking, and adding some new functionality and capabilities as they
went.'
Did you read that:
'In developing NT, these [Microsoft] designers [hired from DEC]
rewrote VMS in C'
You don't provide a source for that, big surprise, 'cause a lot of
people wrote BS about the topic, and now that includes you.
That was deliberate:
<https://www.itprotoday.com/server-virtualization/windows-nt-and-vms- the-rest-of-the-story>
I asked how far he [Linux kernel developer Torvalds] got, and you failed to answer.
He got to a point where his kernel could be compiled and booted
with GNU's part. That's a massive achievement. And I already
suggested that in my answer, you apparently didn't hear it.
Which has nothing to do with what Linux has become.
It's been a long time, that's hardly relevant. GNU/Linux booted and >>>> performed as a basic system from the beginning.
Way to miss the point.
You had one?
That every OS available today has developed over time from various sources.
It's not copying unless it involves source code.
False.
So an abstract concept can be patented? Oracle would love you, with
their frivolous lawsuit against Google, for the Java *concepts* being
implemented independently for Android's API.
Irrelevant.
If I paint a copy of the Mona Lisa, it's still a copy.
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with left >>>>> in the macOS kernel?
They may have replaced code with newer code, that doesn't mean they
did it from scratch, they had the original code being replaced to go
from.
So now suddenly it does matter even if it doesn't involve source code.
Got it.
No, it matters that they never worked from ground zero.
Neither did Microsoft.
Nope. It's an indicator that they had a good base from which to work.I didn't say that the macOS/iOS kernels are flawed, I think the factThat's exactly what you implied: that Apple's product was somehow
Apple had to build on existing code shows it's lacking in
imagination for development, though.
inferior because "Apple doesn't even produce its kernel in-house"
Well, it's not *because* of that, but it's an indicator they're
inferior developers.
On 2025-10-29 04:10, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, 10/28/2025 6:03 PM, Alan wrote:[...]
[...]You can't minimize a PROGRAM to the Taskbar in Windows.
You can only minimize a program with an open DOCUMENT.
Windows suspends applications, and saves them in memory. This
is similar to the concept of Terminate and Stay Resident. The
application re-inflates when referred to a second time. The
memory and the suspended status can be retired, under memory
pressure. Not many things, in an average Task Manager display,
are suspended like that.
Exactly. For at least four decades and probably longer, Real OSs (TM) have kept things in memory unless/until memory pressure is that high
that memory occupied by 'old'/not-in-*active*-use code/data has to be
freed to bring in new stuff.
BSD (what again is macOS based on?) has been doing this since whenever
I can remember. (What was it? minfree? lotsfree?)
Apparently Alan is not aware of how a 'modern' OS - i.e. also macOS
and Windows (and Linux) - actually works and 'hence' he's blaming
Windows for a 'problem' which doesn't exist.
I'm aware that all the OS choices one has for a personal computer do that...
...including macOS.--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
The argument was that macOS is somehow inferior because it uses a
different paradigm for dealing with application termination.
And the argument--once again--boils down to:
"I'm not used to it, so it must be bad".
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:18:09 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote <mmc1l1Fkvk8U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 28/10/2025 13:57, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the >>>> Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the
Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we >>>> did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black
Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to >>>> do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
Daniel sounds like a good new recruit for ACW! ;-)
Agreed.
On 28/10/2025 14:22, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:18:09 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc1l1Fkvk8U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 28/10/2025 13:57, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the >>>>> Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the >>>>> Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we >>>>> did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black >>>>> Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to >>>>> do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
Daniel sounds like a good new recruit for ACW! ;-)
Agreed.
Maybe YOU would like to invite him formally?
On 10/29/2025 1:19 PM, Alan wrote:
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the
computer so that the scanner can rest on something and connect by >>>>>>> USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of your
scanner.
Got it.
My extra chair is very lightweight, I just move it next to the
computer so that the scanner can connect. I move the chair
frequently during the day and night, when charging my phone on the
wireless pad behind my TV, or getting into bed.
Right: you have to rearrange your furniture just to scan.
That's a really moronic interpretation. I explained in what should be
needless detail, you stick to your argumentative tactics.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your normal setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it in
by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
On 10/29/2025 1:17 PM, Alan wrote:
Why would I believe it's [macOS has] changed? Apple's always been this way,
back to the late '70s. It didn't begin with macOS. It's not the
"get shit done" system.
Wow. Talk about not knowing YOUR "shit".
What makes Apple's products popular is that they are all about
getting things done.
Not by comparison to other systems.
And yet you cannot articulate how it is less productive.
I had an Apple //e as our first family computer, between 1991-1995 (I
used it again once during college, just to avoid using the shared
Windows PC), I tried every programming option there was, assembly was
far and away the only practical one. The Pascal was a whole operating
system distinct from the standard one, there was no C compiler, and this
was by then a system that had been around for a while.
Meanwhile,
Microsoft had created a GUI that was robust, Apple had the IIGS and the
early Macs. They're always far behind. OS X didn't mature till well
after Windows XP's release.
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:39:25 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote <mmf5atF6ipsU2@mid.individual.net>:
On 28/10/2025 14:22, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:18:09 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc1l1Fkvk8U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 28/10/2025 13:57, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training >>>>>> (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the >>>>>> Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the >>>>>> Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we >>>>>> did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black >>>>>> Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to >>>>>> do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
Daniel sounds like a good new recruit for ACW! ;-)
Agreed.
Maybe YOU would like to invite him formally?
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACW (alt.computer.workshop).
On 10/29/2025 1:17 PM, Alan wrote:
Why would I believe it's [macOS has] changed? Apple's always been >>>>> this way, back to the late '70s. It didn't begin with macOS. It's >>>>> not the "get shit done" system.
Wow. Talk about not knowing YOUR "shit".
What makes Apple's products popular is that they are all about
getting things done.
Not by comparison to other systems.
And yet you cannot articulate how it is less productive.
I had an Apple //e as our first family computer, between 1991-1995 (I
used it again once during college, just to avoid using the shared
Windows PC), I tried every programming option there was, assembly was
far and away the only practical one. The Pascal was a whole operating system distinct from the standard one, there was no C compiler, and this
was by then a system that had been around for a while. Meanwhile, Microsoft had created a GUI that was robust, Apple had the IIGS and the early Macs. They're always far behind. OS X didn't mature till well after Windows XP's release.
I understand that Windows 10 and 11 are massively changed from
Windows Vista (released in 2008).
Why can't you imagine that macOS is massively changed from Snow
Leopard (released in 1999)?
I think you meant 2009, but yeah I understand Apple occasionally
tries to keep up.
Way to miss the point.
Seems like I got the point, Apple gets around to developing when they
have to.
Are you really that stupid?
Apple is always behind the curve.
In what way?
In what way is the current Windows actually BETTER than macOS?
Besides offering better specs for the money, Windows 11 PCs have a
better library of software, better UI features, we've been through this.
What about Microsoft's Windows UI is any more intuitive than macOS? >>>>>>>>
Is it the way that they created a "Settings" app for Windows 10... >>>>>>>>
...but still made you use Control Panel for some things?
Control Panel deals with deeper settings that a lot of people
never think about, the Windows 10/11 Settings interface has
replaced the more general functions of Control Panel because time >>>>>>> has marched on, MS is forever changing things. It doesn't impede >>>>>>> me at all, in fact I never much liked Apple's way of managing
settings.
In what way? What SPECIFICALLY did you not like?
It was a minor concern, ultimately, but the panel of settings
wasn't as accessible as I find in Windows and typical Linux.
In what way?
Windows: start Control Panel, then choose a category of settings,
THEN choose a specific panel.
You can make it so it goes directly to the full list, that's one of
the first things I do.
I'm completely aware of that...
...and isn't it completely idiotic that the first thing you need to do
is change a stupid choice that Microsoft made?
It's one mouse click. People who want it the good way would be capable
of figuring it out.
Mac OS: start System Preferences, and then just pick a panel.
Where is the difference?
Again, it was a minor concern, but they were less accessible.
In what way?
Launch an application, select a panel/pane.
I remember it being more out of the way than in Windows.
I'd be expecting you not to make outlandish claims that you shouldSo being so unfamiliar with the device that you didn't even know youThe hilarious part is that there are a couple of things you could >>>>>> actually talk about that are plainly stupid about the design of
the Apple mouse, but you're too dim to even see them.
"Too dim"? I literally am not familiar with the device. I don't >>>>> wish to be, either. I wrote off Apple a long time ago.
could use it as a two-button mouse, you're arguing about how bad it is? >>>>
Yeah: you really ARE too dim.
You were expecting to me to have hands-on experience with it, I don't
like Apple products so that's unlikely.
know you can't actually know about...
...but that's what I'm expecting from an honest, thoughtful person...
...so I've learned I can't actually expect that from you.
If I conceded anything about Apple's software, which I'm not doing, itWhich is you essentially conceding you have no knowledge of how Macs
would still leave the question of how overpriced the systems are.
On 10/29/2025 1:19 PM, Alan wrote:
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the
computer so that the scanner can rest on something and connect by >>>>>>> USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of your >>>>>> scanner.
Got it.
My extra chair is very lightweight, I just move it next to the
computer so that the scanner can connect. I move the chair
frequently during the day and night, when charging my phone on the
wireless pad behind my TV, or getting into bed.
Right: you have to rearrange your furniture just to scan.
That's a really moronic interpretation. I explained in what should
be needless detail, you stick to your argumentative tactics.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your normal
setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it in
by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
My "scanner" is available at all times...
...takes up no additional space...
...and it goes with me everywhere.
And I would not like using a phone for that, I'm sorry I'm so backward, sheesh.
I wouldn't, frankly, find it easier to use a smartphone camera to >>>>>>> do the scanning,
You would immediately find it so if it work on Android as well as >>>>>> it works on an iPhone.
No, I would not. I probably wouldn't notice it was a feature. I >>>>> rather prefer using my scanner and PC.
You're a terrible liar.
You don't know how I operate, so you call me a liar, even when I
tried to explain. You're the liar.
No response here.
No. YOU brought up "convenience", sunshine.How is it less convenient if you scan to a cloud location that isimpressive though Apple's method is (and good for people whoNever heard of file transfer?
don't own a flatbed scanner). I don't really want the image in >>>>>>> my phone, I want to be able to use Paint.NET to manipulate it.
Or cloud storage?
How is that more convenient than just scanning it into a file on my >>>>> SSD?
automatically synched with your SSD?
It's less that than that I don't want to do it that way, as I said.
Because you implied something about it, sunshine.
I scan on my phone, and the document is instantly available on my Mac.
That's as convenient as scanning using a scanner attached to my Mac.
It's OK with me if you want to do it that way. I don't need to nor want to.Keep that mind closed!
On 10/29/2025 1:27 PM, Alan wrote:
The argument was that macOS is somehow inferior because it uses a
different paradigm for dealing with application termination.
And the argument--once again--boils down to:
"I'm not used to it, so it must be bad".
Your excuse is always that Apple is just different, the question you
It's not an excuse when you can't articulate why the difference is an
actual detriment.
It might not entirely be a detriment, but it's taking control away, requiring an awkward process to do what should be the default.
haven't addressed is *why* that would be, it couldn't be they're justIs Linux the same as Windows?
quirky, oh no, it must have some rational basis that no one but Apple
drones can see.
No?
So the "question you haven't address is *why* that would be", right?
It couldn't be that Linux (or Windows) is "just quirky", could it?
Linux has many UIs to choose from. The popular ones are remarkably"Remarkably similar" meaning they're not the same.
similar to Windows.
Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:39:25 AM MST, ""David B."" wrotehe's not a good option
<mmf5atF6ipsU2@mid.individual.net>:
On 28/10/2025 14:22, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:18:09 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc1l1Fkvk8U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 28/10/2025 13:57, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the
Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training >>>>>>> (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the >>>>>>> Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years
(Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the >>>>>>> Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we >>>>>>> did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black >>>>>>> Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to >>>>>>> do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
Daniel sounds like a good new recruit for ACW! ;-)
Agreed.
Maybe YOU would like to invite him formally?
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACW
(alt.computer.workshop).
On 2025-10-29 11:12, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/29/2025 1:19 PM, Alan wrote:
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the
computer so that the scanner can rest on something and connect by >>>>>>>> USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of your >>>>>>> scanner.
Got it.
My extra chair is very lightweight, I just move it next to the
computer so that the scanner can connect. I move the chair
frequently during the day and night, when charging my phone on the >>>>>> wireless pad behind my TV, or getting into bed.
Right: you have to rearrange your furniture just to scan.
That's a really moronic interpretation. I explained in what should
be needless detail, you stick to your argumentative tactics.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your normal
setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it in
by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
Convenience.
You have to:
1. Move a chair.
2. Retrieve the scanner
3. Plug it in.
All before you can scan.
On 2025-10-29 11:09, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/29/2025 1:17 PM, Alan wrote:
Why would I believe it's [macOS has] changed? Apple's always been >>>>>> this way, back to the late '70s. It didn't begin with macOS. It's >>>>>> not the "get shit done" system.
Wow. Talk about not knowing YOUR "shit".
What makes Apple's products popular is that they are all about
getting things done.
Not by comparison to other systems.
And yet you cannot articulate how it is less productive.
I had an Apple //e as our first family computer, between 1991-1995 (I
used it again once during college, just to avoid using the shared
Windows PC), I tried every programming option there was, assembly was
far and away the only practical one. The Pascal was a whole operating
system distinct from the standard one, there was no C compiler, and this
was by then a system that had been around for a while. Meanwhile,
Microsoft had created a GUI that was robust, Apple had the IIGS and the
early Macs. They're always far behind. OS X didn't mature till well
after Windows XP's release.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
You're basing your opinions on the productivity of current Macs based on
the Apple //e?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
Microsoft didn't HAVE a GUI until AFTER the Mac came out, sunshine.
And Windows 3 (the first really workable GUI from Microsoft) was
released in 1990...
...more than 6 YEARS after the first Mac.
On 10/29/2025 1:39 PM, Alan wrote:
Again. What makes Windows File Explorer or any Linux file
browser...
...more ROBUST [than Mac Finder]?
You've already admitted you don't know anything about any macOS >>>>>>>> newer than 15 years old.
Tabs,
Which the Finder has.
Probably attempting to stay competitive.
No acknowledgement that you had no clue.
The Finder got tabs back in 2013.
It was too late to sell me on their junk.
And yet you still post as if you know what that "junk" does...
Practically speaking, I'd need to own a newer Mac to investigate, which
is asking a lot when I already tried one and found it wasn't for me.
Your point was that Apple did something different when they
created macOS.
They didn't.
It's vastly different. Apple bought out a company that already had >>>>> something, and they in turn didn't create from scratch.
Almost nothing is made from scratch.
It only seems to bother you when Apple is involved.
What *specific* thing did MS or Torvalds copy? Only abstract
concepts, no code. The lawsuit against MS was frivolous, yet they
were generous enough to settle, secure enough in their success not to
waste time with attorneys litigating it.
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
Nope.
Yup. Absolutely yup.
'NT and VMS
Most of NT's core designers had worked on and with VMS at Digital;
some had worked directly with Cutler. How could these developers
prevent their VMS design decisions from affecting their design and
implementation of NT? Many users believe that NT's developers
carried concepts from VMS to NT, but most don't know just how
similar NT and VMS are at the kernel level'
'VMS doesn't have different OS personalities, as NT does, but its
kernel and Executive subsystems are clear predecessors to NT's.
Digital developers wrote the VMS kernel almost entirely in VAX
assembly language. To be portable across different CPU
architectures, Microsoft developers wrote NT's kernel almost
entirely in C. In developing NT, these designers rewrote VMS in C,
cleaning up, tuning, tweaking, and adding some new functionality and
capabilities as they went.'
Did you read that:
'In developing NT, these [Microsoft] designers [hired from DEC]
rewrote VMS in C'
You don't provide a source for that, big surprise, 'cause a lot of
people wrote BS about the topic, and now that includes you.
That was deliberate:
<https://www.itprotoday.com/server-virtualization/windows-nt-and-vms-
the-rest-of-the-story>
And sites like that are never wrong, of course.
I asked how far he [Linux kernel developer Torvalds] got, and >>>>>>>> you failed to answer.
He got to a point where his kernel could be compiled and booted >>>>>>> with GNU's part. That's a massive achievement. And I already >>>>>>> suggested that in my answer, you apparently didn't hear it.
Which has nothing to do with what Linux has become.
It's been a long time, that's hardly relevant. GNU/Linux booted
and performed as a basic system from the beginning.
Way to miss the point.
You had one?
That every OS available today has developed over time from various
sources.
The concept of a Unix kernel isn't patent-able. Torvalds didn't copy anyone else's work on such. It's not copying anything.
It's not copying unless it involves source code.
False.
So an abstract concept can be patented? Oracle would love you, with
their frivolous lawsuit against Google, for the Java *concepts* being
implemented independently for Android's API.
Irrelevant.
If I paint a copy of the Mona Lisa, it's still a copy.
That's not a logical comparison.
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with
left in the macOS kernel?
They may have replaced code with newer code, that doesn't mean they >>>>> did it from scratch, they had the original code being replaced to
go from.
So now suddenly it does matter even if it doesn't involve source code. >>>>
Got it.
No, it matters that they never worked from ground zero.
Neither did Microsoft.
You can repeat that all you want, but they copied nothing but abstract ideas.
Nope. It's an indicator that they had a good base from which to work.I didn't say that the macOS/iOS kernels are flawed, I think theThat's exactly what you implied: that Apple's product was somehow
fact Apple had to build on existing code shows it's lacking in
imagination for development, though.
inferior because "Apple doesn't even produce its kernel in-house"
Well, it's not *because* of that, but it's an indicator they're
inferior developers.
Perhaps they did, but it wasn't theirs/NeXT's entirely.So what?
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:12:58 AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote <KOsMQ.1335797$Jgh9.1325799@fx15.iad>:
On 10/29/2025 1:19 PM, Alan wrote:
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it inIf I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the
computer so that the scanner can rest on something and connect by >>>>>>>> USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of your >>>>>>> scanner.
Got it.
My extra chair is very lightweight, I just move it next to the
computer so that the scanner can connect. I move the chair
frequently during the day and night, when charging my phone on the >>>>>> wireless pad behind my TV, or getting into bed.
Right: you have to rearrange your furniture just to scan.
That's a really moronic interpretation. I explained in what should be >>>> needless detail, you stick to your argumentative tactics.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your normal setup. >>
by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
I have my iOS scanner. My printer also works as a scanner. It takes essentially no extra room vs. just having a printer. Even if it did, SO WHAT? I also have kitchen appliances I do not use daily -- and they take room! I buy
toilet paper and paper towels in bulk because it is cheaper. I. HAVE. THE. ROOM. It is not a hardship.
This whole "but it takes extra room" is silly, unless there is some context I am missing.
And I am like you -- in general I like the "real" scanner. The iOS one does a great job -- but the "real" one works better.
No idea why anyone would be offended by how someone else scans documents.
Why would I believe it's [macOS has] changed? Apple's always been >>>>>> this way, back to the late '70s. It didn't begin with macOS.
It's not the "get shit done" system.
Wow. Talk about not knowing YOUR "shit".
What makes Apple's products popular is that they are all about
getting things done.
Not by comparison to other systems.
And yet you cannot articulate how it is less productive.
I had an Apple //e as our first family computer, between 1991-1995 (I
used it again once during college, just to avoid using the shared
Windows PC), I tried every programming option there was, assembly was
far and away the only practical one. The Pascal was a whole operating
system distinct from the standard one, there was no C compiler, and
this was by then a system that had been around for a while.
Meanwhile, Microsoft had created a GUI that was robust, Apple had the
IIGS and the early Macs. They're always far behind. OS X didn't
mature till well after Windows XP's release.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
You're basing your opinions on the productivity of current Macs based on
the Apple //e?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
Microsoft didn't HAVE a GUI until AFTER the Mac came out, sunshine.
And Windows 3 (the first really workable GUI from Microsoft) was
released in 1990...
...more than 6 YEARS after the first Mac.
Apple is always behind the curve.
In what way?
In what way is the current Windows actually BETTER than macOS?
Besides offering better specs for the money, Windows 11 PCs have a
better library of software, better UI features, we've been through this.
What are these "better UI features"?
You've yet to mention one.
Windows: start Control Panel, then choose a category of settings,
THEN choose a specific panel.
You can make it so it goes directly to the full list, that's one of
the first things I do.
I'm completely aware of that...
...and isn't it completely idiotic that the first thing you need to
do is change a stupid choice that Microsoft made?
It's one mouse click. People who want it the good way would be
capable of figuring it out.
But you admit it's the good way (I agree; it's one of the first things I
do when supporting a client who uses Windows)...
...and Microsoft didn't make it the default.
Mac OS: start System Preferences, and then just pick a panel.
Where is the difference?
Again, it was a minor concern, but they were less accessible.
In what way?
Launch an application, select a panel/pane.
I remember it being more out of the way than in Windows.
Really?
How?
It has always been available as a menu item in the Apple menu...
...which is ALWAYS available.
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the
computer so that the scanner can rest on something and connect >>>>>>>> by USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of your >>>>>>> scanner.
Got it.
My extra chair is very lightweight, I just move it next to the
computer so that the scanner can connect. I move the chair
frequently during the day and night, when charging my phone on the >>>>>> wireless pad behind my TV, or getting into bed.
Right: you have to rearrange your furniture just to scan.
That's a really moronic interpretation. I explained in what should
be needless detail, you stick to your argumentative tactics.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your normal
setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it in
by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
Convenience.
You have to:
1. Move a chair.
2. Retrieve the scanner
3. Plug it in.
All before you can scan.
My "scanner" is available at all times...
...takes up no additional space...
...and it goes with me everywhere.
And I would not like using a phone for that, I'm sorry I'm so
backward, sheesh.
The only reason not to like it without even trying it, is to be argumentative.
Keep that mind closed!I scan on my phone, and the document is instantly available on my Mac.
That's as convenient as scanning using a scanner attached to my Mac.
It's OK with me if you want to do it that way. I don't need to nor
want to.
The [Mac] Finder got tabs back in 2013.
It was too late to sell me on their junk.
And yet you still post as if you know what that "junk" does...
Practically speaking, I'd need to own a newer Mac to investigate,
which is asking a lot when I already tried one and found it wasn't for
me.
So here's a thought:...
(Something you clearly never bother with)
...maybe don't speak as if you know how macOS works.
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with
left in the macOS kernel?
They may have replaced code with newer code, that doesn't mean
they did it from scratch, they had the original code being
replaced to go from.
So now suddenly it does matter even if it doesn't involve source code. >>>>>
Got it.
No, it matters that they never worked from ground zero.
Neither did Microsoft.
You can repeat that all you want, but they copied nothing but abstract
ideas.
Sorry, but they copied large swathes of VMS basically unchanged.
That is a well-documented fact.
So what?Nope. It's an indicator that they had a good base from which to work.I didn't say that the macOS/iOS kernels are flawed, I think theThat's exactly what you implied: that Apple's product was somehow
fact Apple had to build on existing code shows it's lacking in
imagination for development, though.
inferior because "Apple doesn't even produce its kernel in-house"
Well, it's not *because* of that, but it's an indicator they're
inferior developers.
Perhaps they did, but it wasn't theirs/NeXT's entirely.
They've been developing it for more than 25 years since it was acquired.
On 10/29/2025 2:35 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:12:58 AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<KOsMQ.1335797$Jgh9.1325799@fx15.iad>:
On 10/29/2025 1:19 PM, Alan wrote:
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the
computer so that the scanner can rest on something and connect by >>>>>>>>> USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of your >>>>>>>> scanner.
Got it.
My extra chair is very lightweight, I just move it next to the
computer so that the scanner can connect. I move the chair
frequently during the day and night, when charging my phone on the >>>>>>> wireless pad behind my TV, or getting into bed.
Right: you have to rearrange your furniture just to scan.
That's a really moronic interpretation. I explained in what should be >>>>> needless detail, you stick to your argumentative tactics.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your normal
setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it in
by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
I have my iOS scanner. My printer also works as a scanner. It takes
essentially no extra room vs. just having a printer. Even if it did,
SO WHAT?
I also have kitchen appliances I do not use daily -- and they take
room! I buy
toilet paper and paper towels in bulk because it is cheaper. I. HAVE.
THE.
ROOM. It is not a hardship.
This whole "but it takes extra room" is silly, unless there is some
context I
am missing.
And I am like you -- in general I like the "real" scanner. The iOS one
does a
great job -- but the "real" one works better.
No idea why anyone would be offended by how someone else scans documents.
Alan claimed out of the blue that if my phone would scan like that, I'd prefer it. I had said I wasn't interested in such a feature, though I admire Apple's work in producing it for iOS, abstractly. But someAnd Alan is right.
things are just better on a desktop/laptop system.
On 10/29/2025 3:09 PM, Alan wrote:
If I need to scan something, I put one of my chairs by the
computer so that the scanner can rest on something and connect >>>>>>>>> by USB.
So you have to rearrange your furniture... ...to make use of
your scanner.
Got it.
My extra chair is very lightweight, I just move it next to the
computer so that the scanner can connect. I move the chair
frequently during the day and night, when charging my phone on
the wireless pad behind my TV, or getting into bed.
Right: you have to rearrange your furniture just to scan.
That's a really moronic interpretation. I explained in what should >>>>> be needless detail, you stick to your argumentative tactics.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your normal
setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it
in by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
Convenience.
When my landlord pays the electric bill, how convenient would it be for
him to have to pay for a rarely used device needlessly connected to my computer?
You have to:
1. Move a chair.
2. Retrieve the scanner
3. Plug it in.
All before you can scan.
Yeah well I have to walk to get food and other items, it takes a little
time and effort, but it allows me to live within my means, instead of flailing around trying to support a vehicle I can't begin to afford.
Hell, in many cases it's easier to walk anyway, I live close to things,
but then there are occasions a car would be nice. But you learn to
accept what you have, as a grown person.
My "scanner" is available at all times...
...takes up no additional space...
...and it goes with me everywhere.
And I would not like using a phone for that, I'm sorry I'm so
backward, sheesh.
The only reason not to like it without even trying it, is to be
argumentative.
I like the innovation of the feature, abstractly, Apple gets points for that, but I already have a flatbed scanner, I just would gain little to nothing, I don't want to use my phone for that function.
Keep that mind closed!I scan on my phone, and the document is instantly available on my Mac. >>>>
That's as convenient as scanning using a scanner attached to my Mac.
It's OK with me if you want to do it that way. I don't need to nor
want to.
It's not closed, I know what I would like and not like.Magically without even trying it!
On 10/29/2025 3:33 PM, Alan wrote:
The [Mac] Finder got tabs back in 2013.
It was too late to sell me on their junk.
And yet you still post as if you know what that "junk" does...
Practically speaking, I'd need to own a newer Mac to investigate,
which is asking a lot when I already tried one and found it wasn't
for me.
So here's a thought:...
(Something you clearly never bother with)
...maybe don't speak as if you know how macOS works.
Why do you think I bought a Mac, I could've bought a much higher-spec'd
PC laptop, but I wanted to experience OS X. I even liked it at first,
with the novelty of it, but it became clear its overall value was
inferior, I still attempted to dual-boot, but that wasn't practical so I overwrote OS X. Is that not giving it a chance?
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with >>>>>>>> left in the macOS kernel?
They may have replaced code with newer code, that doesn't mean
they did it from scratch, they had the original code being
replaced to go from.
So now suddenly it does matter even if it doesn't involve source
code.
Got it.
No, it matters that they never worked from ground zero.
Neither did Microsoft.
You can repeat that all you want, but they copied nothing but
abstract ideas.
Sorry, but they copied large swathes of VMS basically unchanged.
That is a well-documented fact.
They used similar techniques to create something brand new.
So what?Nope. It's an indicator that they had a good base from which to work.I didn't say that the macOS/iOS kernels are flawed, I think the >>>>>>> fact Apple had to build on existing code shows it's lacking inThat's exactly what you implied: that Apple's product was somehow >>>>>> inferior because "Apple doesn't even produce its kernel in-house"
imagination for development, though.
Well, it's not *because* of that, but it's an indicator they're
inferior developers.
Perhaps they did, but it wasn't theirs/NeXT's entirely.
They've been developing it for more than 25 years since it was acquired.
And yet their Unix components can't compete with Linux distros, their
focus is macOS-native development, running on top of a hacked edition of Unix, with real Unix-native support being an afterthought.Ummmmm...no.
On 10/29/2025 3:07 PM, Alan wrote:
Why would I believe it's [macOS has] changed? Apple's always
been this way, back to the late '70s. It didn't begin with
macOS. It's not the "get shit done" system.
Wow. Talk about not knowing YOUR "shit".
What makes Apple's products popular is that they are all about
getting things done.
Not by comparison to other systems.
And yet you cannot articulate how it is less productive.
I had an Apple //e as our first family computer, between 1991-1995 (I
used it again once during college, just to avoid using the shared
Windows PC), I tried every programming option there was, assembly was
far and away the only practical one. The Pascal was a whole
operating system distinct from the standard one, there was no C
compiler, and this was by then a system that had been around for a
while. Meanwhile, Microsoft had created a GUI that was robust, Apple
had the IIGS and the early Macs. They're always far behind. OS X
didn't mature till well after Windows XP's release.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
You're basing your opinions on the productivity of current Macs based
on the Apple //e?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
No, I'm suggesting that Apple has a long history of lagging behind PCs.
Microsoft didn't HAVE a GUI until AFTER the Mac came out, sunshine.
And Windows 3 (the first really workable GUI from Microsoft) was
released in 1990...
...more than 6 YEARS after the first Mac.
And Win3.x *instantly* surpassed the GUI of the early Macs. It became
so widely used that crappy Win95 shattered records for retail upgrades
and new-device sales.
Apple is always behind the curve.
In what way?
In what way is the current Windows actually BETTER than macOS?
Besides offering better specs for the money, Windows 11 PCs have a
better library of software, better UI features, we've been through this.
What are these "better UI features"?
You've yet to mention one.
They put more energy into developing them, it shows in using the two systems.
Windows: start Control Panel, then choose a category of settings, >>>>>> THEN choose a specific panel.
You can make it so it goes directly to the full list, that's one of >>>>> the first things I do.
I'm completely aware of that...
...and isn't it completely idiotic that the first thing you need to
do is change a stupid choice that Microsoft made?
It's one mouse click. People who want it the good way would be
capable of figuring it out.
But you admit it's the good way (I agree; it's one of the first things
I do when supporting a client who uses Windows)...
...and Microsoft didn't make it the default.
That's one thing that people like us don't like about Winblows, we know.
The default settings are for relatively novice users. But as advanced users, we know how to fix it.
Mac OS: start System Preferences, and then just pick a panel.
Where is the difference?
Again, it was a minor concern, but they were less accessible.
In what way?
Launch an application, select a panel/pane.
I remember it being more out of the way than in Windows.
Really?
How?
It has always been available as a menu item in the Apple menu...
...which is ALWAYS available.
I think MS struck gold with Win95's UI, the Start button/menu concept,
it's by far the preferred style in Linux UIs as well. And Win2000/XP finally brought that usability to a real OS, sooner than OS X's maturity.
Alan claimed out of the blue that if my phone would scan like that,And Alan is right.
I'd prefer it. I had said I wasn't interested in such a feature,
though I admire Apple's work in producing it for iOS, abstractly. But
some things are just better on a desktop/laptop system.
If what Apple has done with scanning on the iPhone had come out on
Android, you'd be all over telling us how clever it is.
On 10/29/2025 4:58 PM, Alan wrote:
Alan claimed out of the blue that if my phone would scan like that,And Alan is right.
I'd prefer it. I had said I wasn't interested in such a feature,
though I admire Apple's work in producing it for iOS, abstractly.
But some things are just better on a desktop/laptop system.
If what Apple has done with scanning on the iPhone had come out on
Android, you'd be all over telling us how clever it is.
I doubt I'd even know about it. I don't pay much attention to new
system updates on the phone, I just install them and keep using it like
a, well, phone. It's not my primary device.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your normal >>>>> setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it
in by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
Convenience.
When my landlord pays the electric bill, how convenient would it be
for him to have to pay for a rarely used device needlessly connected
to my computer?
What USB scanner do you have?
What is it's current draw at idle?
If that were actually a significant amount, couldn't you just unplug it without moving it?
You have to:
1. Move a chair.
2. Retrieve the scanner
3. Plug it in.
All before you can scan.
Yeah well I have to walk to get food and other items, it takes a
little time and effort, but it allows me to live within my means,
instead of flailing around trying to support a vehicle I can't begin
to afford. Hell, in many cases it's easier to walk anyway, I live
close to things, but then there are occasions a car would be nice.
But you learn to accept what you have, as a grown person.
And the deflecting begins!
My "scanner" is available at all times...
...takes up no additional space...
...and it goes with me everywhere.
And I would not like using a phone for that, I'm sorry I'm so
backward, sheesh.
The only reason not to like it without even trying it, is to be
argumentative.
I like the innovation of the feature, abstractly, Apple gets points
for that, but I already have a flatbed scanner, I just would gain
little to nothing, I don't want to use my phone for that function.
But you're the one who talks about spending less...
The [Mac] Finder got tabs back in 2013.
It was too late to sell me on their junk.
And yet you still post as if you know what that "junk" does...
Practically speaking, I'd need to own a newer Mac to investigate,
which is asking a lot when I already tried one and found it wasn't
for me.
So here's a thought:...
(Something you clearly never bother with)
...maybe don't speak as if you know how macOS works.
Why do you think I bought a Mac, I could've bought a much higher-
spec'd PC laptop, but I wanted to experience OS X. I even liked it at
first, with the novelty of it, but it became clear its overall value
was inferior, I still attempted to dual-boot, but that wasn't
practical so I overwrote OS X. Is that not giving it a chance?
I don't know why you bought it. I (unlike you) don't speculate about
things I don't know anything about.
And then you say something idiotic like "dual-booting" isn't "practical"...
...when overwriting Mac OS X only prevented you from using it and didn't make using Windows any better.
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with >>>>>>>>> left in the macOS kernel?
They may have replaced code with newer code, that doesn't mean >>>>>>>> they did it from scratch, they had the original code being
replaced to go from.
So now suddenly it does matter even if it doesn't involve source >>>>>>> code.
Got it.
No, it matters that they never worked from ground zero.
Neither did Microsoft.
You can repeat that all you want, but they copied nothing but
abstract ideas.
Sorry, but they copied large swathes of VMS basically unchanged.
That is a well-documented fact.
They used similar techniques to create something brand new.
Nope. They hired the team that wrote VMS and then rewrote VMS routines
in C for Windows NT.
So what?Perhaps they did, but it wasn't theirs/NeXT's entirely.Nope. It's an indicator that they had a good base from which to work. >>>>Well, it's not *because* of that, but it's an indicator they'reI didn't say that the macOS/iOS kernels are flawed, I think the >>>>>>>> fact Apple had to build on existing code shows it's lacking in >>>>>>>> imagination for development, though.That's exactly what you implied: that Apple's product was somehow >>>>>>> inferior because "Apple doesn't even produce its kernel in-house" >>>>>>
inferior developers.
They've been developing it for more than 25 years since it was acquired.
And yet their Unix components can't compete with Linux distros, their
Another claim you'll never substantiate.
focus is macOS-native development, running on top of a hacked editionUmmmmm...no.
of Unix, with real Unix-native support being an afterthought.
macOS is still a certified UNIX OS.
On 10/29/2025 5:02 PM, Alan wrote:
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your
normal setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it >>>>> in by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
Convenience.
When my landlord pays the electric bill, how convenient would it be
for him to have to pay for a rarely used device needlessly connected
to my computer?
What USB scanner do you have?
Epson Perfection V39, purchased in 2023. My friend was trying to get
his unemployment benefits, and had to prove his identity online, and it
was a device I wasn't against having (and I had a gift-card balance on Amazon from my birthday), I've used it to scan my own driver's license including just recently when I renewed it. I haven't used it
extensively, but it is nice to have.
What is it's current draw at idle?
I really don't know.
If that were actually a significant amount, couldn't you just unplug
it without moving it?
That's exactly what I'd do if it were located on the desk, I don't have space for it there.
You have to:
1. Move a chair.
2. Retrieve the scanner
3. Plug it in.
All before you can scan.
Yeah well I have to walk to get food and other items, it takes a
little time and effort, but it allows me to live within my means,
instead of flailing around trying to support a vehicle I can't begin
to afford. Hell, in many cases it's easier to walk anyway, I live
close to things, but then there are occasions a car would be nice.
But you learn to accept what you have, as a grown person.
And the deflecting begins!
No, the point is that you're making a big deal out of very little.
My "scanner" is available at all times...
...takes up no additional space...
...and it goes with me everywhere.
And I would not like using a phone for that, I'm sorry I'm so
backward, sheesh.
The only reason not to like it without even trying it, is to be
argumentative.
I like the innovation of the feature, abstractly, Apple gets points
for that, but I already have a flatbed scanner, I just would gain
little to nothing, I don't want to use my phone for that function.
But you're the one who talks about spending less...
By not buying a Mac, I could afford a scanner.By having an iPhone, I don't NEED a scanner.
Why would I believe it's [macOS has] changed? Apple's always >>>>>>>> been this way, back to the late '70s. It didn't begin with
macOS. It's not the "get shit done" system.
Wow. Talk about not knowing YOUR "shit".
What makes Apple's products popular is that they are all about
getting things done.
Not by comparison to other systems.
And yet you cannot articulate how it is less productive.
I had an Apple //e as our first family computer, between 1991-1995
(I used it again once during college, just to avoid using the shared
Windows PC), I tried every programming option there was, assembly
was far and away the only practical one. The Pascal was a whole
operating system distinct from the standard one, there was no C
compiler, and this was by then a system that had been around for a
while. Meanwhile, Microsoft had created a GUI that was robust, Apple
had the IIGS and the early Macs. They're always far behind. OS X
didn't mature till well after Windows XP's release.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
You're basing your opinions on the productivity of current Macs based
on the Apple //e?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
No, I'm suggesting that Apple has a long history of lagging behind PCs.
By developing a GUI long before Microsoft?
Microsoft didn't HAVE a GUI until AFTER the Mac came out, sunshine.
And Windows 3 (the first really workable GUI from Microsoft) was
released in 1990...
...more than 6 YEARS after the first Mac.
And Win3.x *instantly* surpassed the GUI of the early Macs. It became
so widely used that crappy Win95 shattered records for retail upgrades
and new-device sales.
Ummmmm...no.
Apple is always behind the curve.
In what way?
In what way is the current Windows actually BETTER than macOS?
Besides offering better specs for the money, Windows 11 PCs have a
better library of software, better UI features, we've been through
this.
What are these "better UI features"?
You've yet to mention one.
They put more energy into developing them, it shows in using the two
systems.
That is a pivot.
The amount of energy you put into something is no guarantee that thing
will be any good.
Windows: start Control Panel, then choose a category of settings, >>>>>>> THEN choose a specific panel.
You can make it so it goes directly to the full list, that's one
of the first things I do.
I'm completely aware of that...
...and isn't it completely idiotic that the first thing you need to >>>>> do is change a stupid choice that Microsoft made?
It's one mouse click. People who want it the good way would be
capable of figuring it out.
But you admit it's the good way (I agree; it's one of the first
things I do when supporting a client who uses Windows)...
...and Microsoft didn't make it the default.
That's one thing that people like us don't like about Winblows, we
know. The default settings are for relatively novice users. But as
advanced users, we know how to fix it.
Most users are "relatively novice".
Mac OS: start System Preferences, and then just pick a panel.
Where is the difference?
Again, it was a minor concern, but they were less accessible.
In what way?
Launch an application, select a panel/pane.
I remember it being more out of the way than in Windows.
Really?
How?
It has always been available as a menu item in the Apple menu...
...which is ALWAYS available.
I think MS struck gold with Win95's UI, the Start button/menu concept,
it's by far the preferred style in Linux UIs as well. And Win2000/XP
finally brought that usability to a real OS, sooner than OS X's maturity.
Pivot again!
You were supposed to be explaining how the Apple menu is more "out of
the way" than the Start menu.>
Alan claimed out of the blue that if my phone would scan like that,And Alan is right.
I'd prefer it. I had said I wasn't interested in such a feature,
though I admire Apple's work in producing it for iOS, abstractly.
But some things are just better on a desktop/laptop system.
If what Apple has done with scanning on the iPhone had come out on
Android, you'd be all over telling us how clever it is.
I doubt I'd even know about it. I don't pay much attention to new
system updates on the phone, I just install them and keep using it
like a, well, phone. It's not my primary device.
Sorry...
...let me get his straight:
After going on and on about how essential a button for switching apps is
to you...
...you're now saying you basically never use it?
On 2025-10-29 13:44, Joel W. Crump wrote:
And yet their Unix components can't compete with Linux distros,
their
Another claim you'll never substantiate.
focus is macOS-native development, running on top of a hackedUmmmmm...no.
edition of Unix, with real Unix-native support being an
afterthought.
macOS is still a certified UNIX OS.
On 10/29/2025 5:14 PM, Alan wrote:
Alan claimed out of the blue that if my phone would scan like that, >>>>> I'd prefer it. I had said I wasn't interested in such a feature,And Alan is right.
though I admire Apple's work in producing it for iOS, abstractly.
But some things are just better on a desktop/laptop system.
If what Apple has done with scanning on the iPhone had come out on
Android, you'd be all over telling us how clever it is.
I doubt I'd even know about it. I don't pay much attention to new
system updates on the phone, I just install them and keep using it
like a, well, phone. It's not my primary device.
Sorry...
...let me get his straight:
After going on and on about how essential a button for switching apps
is to you...
...you're now saying you basically never use it?
No, but when I'm *at home* I use my PC more than 90% of the time.
On 2025-10-29 14:19, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/29/2025 5:02 PM, Alan wrote:
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your
normal setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it >>>>> in by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
Convenience.
When my landlord pays the electric bill, how convenient would it be
for him to have to pay for a rarely used device needlessly connected
to my computer?
What USB scanner do you have?
Epson Perfection V39, purchased in 2023. My friend was trying to get
his unemployment benefits, and had to prove his identity online, and it was a device I wasn't against having (and I had a gift-card balance on Amazon from my birthday), I've used it to scan my own driver's license including just recently when I renewed it. I haven't used it extensively, but it is nice to have.
What is it's current draw at idle?
I really don't know.
I do. Because I'm bright enough to check.
In use, it draws 2.5 watts.
I don't know where you live, but where I live electricity costs about
$0.15 per kilowatt-hour.
That scanner being actively used 24 hours a day for an entire year would cost...
...$3.29
But!
Plugged in and NOT in use, it draws 1.1 watts. So left plugged in all
the time, it would cost $1.44 a year.
But, but!
When the computer is asleep, the scanner only draws 0.0125 watts.
So your power usage argument is complete bullshit.
If that were actually a significant amount, couldn't you just unplug
it without moving it?
That's exactly what I'd do if it were located on the desk, I don't have space for it there.
Which is what I was saying:
You have a device that's inconvenient that is completely unnecessary if
you have an iPhone!
You have to:
1. Move a chair.
2. Retrieve the scanner
3. Plug it in.
All before you can scan.
Yeah well I have to walk to get food and other items, it takes a
little time and effort, but it allows me to live within my means,
instead of flailing around trying to support a vehicle I can't begin
to afford. Hell, in many cases it's easier to walk anyway, I live
close to things, but then there are occasions a car would be nice.
But you learn to accept what you have, as a grown person.
And the deflecting begins!
No, the point is that you're making a big deal out of very little.
You make a big deal out of actually nothing at all, so...
My "scanner" is available at all times...
...takes up no additional space...
...and it goes with me everywhere.
And I would not like using a phone for that, I'm sorry I'm so
backward, sheesh.
The only reason not to like it without even trying it, is to be
argumentative.
I like the innovation of the feature, abstractly, Apple gets points
for that, but I already have a flatbed scanner, I just would gain
little to nothing, I don't want to use my phone for that function.
But you're the one who talks about spending less...
By not buying a Mac, I could afford a scanner.By having an iPhone, I don't NEED a scanner.
On 2025-10-29 14:40, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/29/2025 5:14 PM, Alan wrote:
Alan claimed out of the blue that if my phone would scan like that, >>>>> I'd prefer it. I had said I wasn't interested in such a feature, >>>>> though I admire Apple's work in producing it for iOS, abstractly. >>>>> But some things are just better on a desktop/laptop system.And Alan is right.
If what Apple has done with scanning on the iPhone had come out on
Android, you'd be all over telling us how clever it is.
I doubt I'd even know about it. I don't pay much attention to new
system updates on the phone, I just install them and keep using it
like a, well, phone. It's not my primary device.
Sorry...
...let me get his straight:
After going on and on about how essential a button for switching apps
is to you...
...you're now saying you basically never use it?
No, but when I'm *at home* I use my PC more than 90% of the time.
What has that got to do with your contradictory claims that:
You desperately need a button that takes up space at all times on your phone's screen...
...and that you don't use your phone except as a phone...
...which wouldn't require switching much at all.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your
normal setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug
it in by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
Convenience.
When my landlord pays the electric bill, how convenient would it be
for him to have to pay for a rarely used device needlessly connected
to my computer?
What USB scanner do you have?
Epson Perfection V39, purchased in 2023. My friend was trying to get
his unemployment benefits, and had to prove his identity online, and
it was a device I wasn't against having (and I had a gift-card balance
on Amazon from my birthday), I've used it to scan my own driver's
license including just recently when I renewed it. I haven't used it
extensively, but it is nice to have.
What is it's current draw at idle?
I really don't know.
I do. Because I'm bright enough to check.
In use, it draws 2.5 watts.
I don't know where you live, but where I live electricity costs about
$0.15 per kilowatt-hour.
That scanner being actively used 24 hours a day for an entire year would cost...
...$3.29
But!
Plugged in and NOT in use, it draws 1.1 watts. So left plugged in all
the time, it would cost $1.44 a year.
But, but!
When the computer is asleep, the scanner only draws 0.0125 watts.
So your power usage argument is complete bullshit.
If that were actually a significant amount, couldn't you just unplug
it without moving it?
That's exactly what I'd do if it were located on the desk, I don't
have space for it there.
Which is what I was saying:
You have a device that's inconvenient that is completely unnecessary if
you have an iPhone!
You have to:
1. Move a chair.
2. Retrieve the scanner
3. Plug it in.
All before you can scan.
Yeah well I have to walk to get food and other items, it takes a
little time and effort, but it allows me to live within my means,
instead of flailing around trying to support a vehicle I can't begin
to afford. Hell, in many cases it's easier to walk anyway, I live
close to things, but then there are occasions a car would be nice.
But you learn to accept what you have, as a grown person.
And the deflecting begins!
No, the point is that you're making a big deal out of very little.
You make a big deal out of actually nothing at all, so...
By having an iPhone, I don't NEED a scanner.My "scanner" is available at all times...
...takes up no additional space...
...and it goes with me everywhere.
And I would not like using a phone for that, I'm sorry I'm so
backward, sheesh.
The only reason not to like it without even trying it, is to be
argumentative.
I like the innovation of the feature, abstractly, Apple gets points
for that, but I already have a flatbed scanner, I just would gain
little to nothing, I don't want to use my phone for that function.
But you're the one who talks about spending less...
By not buying a Mac, I could afford a scanner.
If what Apple has done with scanning on the iPhone had come out on
Android, you'd be all over telling us how clever it is.
I doubt I'd even know about it. I don't pay much attention to new
system updates on the phone, I just install them and keep using it
like a, well, phone. It's not my primary device.
Sorry...
...let me get his straight:
After going on and on about how essential a button for switching apps
is to you...
...you're now saying you basically never use it?
No, but when I'm *at home* I use my PC more than 90% of the time.
What has that got to do with your contradictory claims that:
You desperately need a button that takes up space at all times on your phone's screen...
...and that you don't use your phone except as a phone...
...which wouldn't require switching much at all.
On 2025-10-29 14:40, Joel W. Crump wrote:
On 10/29/2025 5:14 PM, Alan wrote:
Alan claimed out of the blue that if my phone would scan like that, >>>>>> I'd prefer it. I had said I wasn't interested in such a feature, >>>>>> though I admire Apple's work in producing it for iOS, abstractly. >>>>>> But some things are just better on a desktop/laptop system.And Alan is right.
If what Apple has done with scanning on the iPhone had come out on
Android, you'd be all over telling us how clever it is.
I doubt I'd even know about it. I don't pay much attention to new
system updates on the phone, I just install them and keep using it
like a, well, phone. It's not my primary device.
Sorry...
...let me get his straight:
After going on and on about how essential a button for switching apps
is to you...
...you're now saying you basically never use it?
No, but when I'm *at home* I use my PC more than 90% of the time.
What has that got to do with your contradictory claims that:
You desperately need a button that takes up space at all times on your phone's screen...
...and that you don't use your phone except as a phone...
...which wouldn't require switching much at all.
On Oct 29, 2025 at 1:24:06 PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote <HJuMQ.1449276$ctz9.1282428@fx16.iad>:
On 10/29/2025 2:35 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:12:58 AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<KOsMQ.1335797$Jgh9.1325799@fx15.iad>:
On 10/29/2025 1:19 PM, Alan wrote:
...
Alan claimed out of the blue that if my phone would scan like that, I'd
That's a really moronic interpretation. I explained in what should be >>>>>> needless detail, you stick to your argumentative tactics.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your normal setup.
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it in >>>> by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
I have my iOS scanner. My printer also works as a scanner. It takes
essentially no extra room vs. just having a printer. Even if it did, SO WHAT?
I also have kitchen appliances I do not use daily -- and they take room! I buy
toilet paper and paper towels in bulk because it is cheaper. I. HAVE. THE. >>> ROOM. It is not a hardship.
This whole "but it takes extra room" is silly, unless there is some context I
am missing.
And I am like you -- in general I like the "real" scanner. The iOS one does a
great job -- but the "real" one works better.
No idea why anyone would be offended by how someone else scans documents. >>
prefer it.
Android does pretty much the same thing:
https://youtu.be/E9xGQeRNjY4
Instead of Files (or now Preview), you use Google Drive and it is very similar. We can nitpick a few differences but they are clearly inspired by each other.
--I had said I wasn't interested in such a feature, though I
admire Apple's work in producing it for iOS, abstractly.
Fair. I would not be surprised if Android had it first. Did not dig much, but see older videos that do not show the auto-option but otherwise is much the same.
But some
things are just better on a desktop/laptop system.
I mostly use my printer / scanner for scanning because it works better. Do not
have to worry about shadows, if it guesses sizing a bit wrong, etc. But both work.
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>, brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, 23 Oct 2025Both are confirmed psychopaths.
21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to take a
photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott Arizona is even
worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com> wrote:
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, 23 Oct 2025Both are confirmed psychopaths.
21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to take a >>>>>>>> photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott Arizona is even
worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
On 10/29/2025 2:35 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:12:58 AM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<KOsMQ.1335797$Jgh9.1325799@fx15.iad>:
On 10/29/2025 1:19 PM, Alan wrote:
Why would I leave it attached, using power, when I can just plug it in
That's a really moronic interpretation. I explained in what should be >>>>> needless detail, you stick to your argumentative tactics.
You basically admitted that your scanner doesn't fit in your normal setup. >>>
by USB anytime? You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
I have my iOS scanner. My printer also works as a scanner. It takes
essentially no extra room vs. just having a printer. Even if it did, SO WHAT?
I also have kitchen appliances I do not use daily -- and they take room! I buy
toilet paper and paper towels in bulk because it is cheaper. I. HAVE. THE. >> ROOM. It is not a hardship.
This whole "but it takes extra room" is silly, unless there is some context I
am missing.
And I am like you -- in general I like the "real" scanner. The iOS one does a
great job -- but the "real" one works better.
No idea why anyone would be offended by how someone else scans documents.
Alan claimed out of the blue that if my phone would scan like that, I'd prefer it.
I had said I wasn't interested in such a feature, though I
admire Apple's work in producing it for iOS, abstractly.
But some
things are just better on a desktop/laptop system.
On Oct 29, 2025 at 3:22:38 PM MST, "Brock McNuggets" wrote <690293ae$0$4159$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 1:24:06 PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<HJuMQ.1449276$ctz9.1282428@fx16.iad>:
On 10/29/2025 2:35 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
Alan claimed out of the blue that if my phone would scan like that, I'd
And I am like you -- in general I like the "real" scanner. The iOS one does a
great job -- but the "real" one works better.
No idea why anyone would be offended by how someone else scans documents. >>>
prefer it.
Android does pretty much the same thing:
https://youtu.be/E9xGQeRNjY4
Instead of Files (or now Preview), you use Google Drive and it is very
similar. We can nitpick a few differences but they are clearly inspired by >> each other.
OK, I checked: Google Drive added it to Android in 2013. Apple added it in 2017. So Android did much the same FOUR YEARS before Apple got there.
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mm8oucF43mmU1@mid.individual.net Mon,
27 Oct 2025 08:31:08 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 27/10/2025 04:42, Gremlin wrote:
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mm7m7qFt4o3U1@mid.individual.net
Sun, 26 Oct 2025 22:38:50 GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
On 26/10/2025 21:17, Gremlin wrote:
Solid advice all the way around with your reply!
IAWTP :-)
I remember encouraging you to undertake your training as an
electrician!
You remember things incorrectly then, David. I was *already in the
trade* long before I ever met you.
Can you prove that?
Do you really think it's doing you any good to lie your ass off about this
of all things?
You had nothing whatsoever to do with my interest in electrical. You damn sure didn't know me as a kid when I shadowed an electrician who came to our school when I was in kindergarten. My classmates took nap time, I went
around the school helping the electrician change receptacles and switches.
My teacher thought I was the perfect fit for it - I kept bringing motors and batteries etc to school with me to play with. I understood how they worked long before my classmates took classes to learn. <G> I knew what AC and DC was then, too. I had a blast with that electrician. I also hungout with a super nice one when I lived at Range Pond campground in Maine. He taught me all kinds of things. I helped rewire his RV. As a kid, David. I wasn't even 10 years old yet.
I installed a sub panel in my nanas garage when I was 11 years old to feed
my projects. I pulled the wire myself from the main panel. Installed the breakers myself on both ends. No adult supervision required. They did purchase the materials for me - but - I told them what to buy.
As a kid, when we moved into a new apartment; I dropped the light fixtures already available in my bedroom and replaced them with my fluorescent shop lights. I put them in a safe place in the top of the closet and would always put then back when we moved again. I'd been doing this for decades longer than I've even know you, David. I've always been into electrical and electronic stuff. I had my first soldering iron a few years before I got my first computer at home. My parents were fine with my modifications - they didn't even supervise me. I could be trusted to do it correctly and safely. The landlords didn't care either. In fact, some of them 'hired' me as a kid to go and replace bad fixtures switches and receptacles in other apartments in the buildings. It saved them a shitload of money. And I thought $75 for
an apartment was a fortune. I was a kid and that could buy me a lot of electronic components in the 80s. Some tools too. My parents were fine with what I was doing, the landlords had no problems with my work; it was done right. I wasn't a halfasser, even then. I had books on the subject and I
read them. I had a lot of technical books and I still have some of them. I like to read and I love to learn.
Upgraded soldering irons, batteries, kits. etc. $75 went a damn good ways back then. Was it legal? Actually, in a gray area yes. It was. And, it was the 80s - kids were allowed to do things that today is a no no. I was even allowed to purchase sticks of dynamite! and walk down the sidewalk with them back to my grandparents house so he could use them to blow tree stumps out
of the ground. Nobody said shit, nobody said I couldn't buy it. We were expected to have some brains about us then. We knew it wasn't a fire cracker and not to be doing anything stupid with it because it could explode and
turn you into mush. Generation X had the best life. We just didn't realize
it at the time.
I was already doing apprentice electrical for a living in New Mexico before
I was nineteen years old, David. Years before I ever wrote BugHunter or
moved to TN. I already had nine months in doing mostly resi work before we relocated and I took a job at that computer shop. I was still doing electrical on the weekends with a couple of electrical companies here While working during the week as a multi cert holding computer technician. My resume confirms that, too, btw.
Sorry bud, but you didn't encourage me to do anything I wasn't already doing long before you encountered me. I'm not even sure why you try to take credit for something you had nothing to do with in the first place.
You got pissed with me because I criticized the fact that when your air
conditioning unit failed you bought a new one rather than
attempt to repair the failed unit.
I don't have the EPA required license to purchase refrigerant. Window
Shakers aka room air conditioners don't have ports already on their high/low side lines to introduce new refrigerant. Those lines would have to be cut into and such ports installed (I can do that), but I don't have the
necessary tools to tap onto those ports to introduce the new refrigerant. Nor, again, do I have the required license to be able to purchase a tank of it to do that with. I determined the machine didn't have an electrical issue - it was a lost refrigerant issue (which they are known for having). It didn't make economical sense to take the test and pay for my EPA license
then purchase the necessary tools along with a tank of refrigerant to fix it. It was well over a thousand dollars (US) cheaper (If I used the most inexpensive shit tools and vacuum pump I could obtain; nearly 3k for the decent tools at the time) to purchase a new unit. Had the fan assembly motor been bad, or the capacitor, or an issue with the control board or a relay, I would have fixed it myself and continued to use it. The compressor itself
was still good, but it wasn't working too well due to insufficient refrigerant. Go ahead and write from your asshole again concerning a subject you clearly don't know anything about, David. It greatly amuses me.
I don't know where you got the idea I was pissed off at you? over that. If you have an MID though, feel free to share it. I know you're writing this bullshit because you aren't happy with how I've been treating Snit. You aren't fooling me or anyone else with this.
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:58:13 AM MST, "%" wrote <T8-dnfbktYNW_p_0nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>:
Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:39:25 AM MST, ""David B."" wrotehe's not a good option
<mmf5atF6ipsU2@mid.individual.net>:
On 28/10/2025 14:22, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:18:09 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc1l1Fkvk8U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 28/10/2025 13:57, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the >>>>>>>> Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor
Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training >>>>>>>> (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the >>>>>>>> Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years >>>>>>>> (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the >>>>>>>> Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we
did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black >>>>>>>> Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to >>>>>>>> do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
Daniel sounds like a good new recruit for ACW! ;-)
Agreed.
Maybe YOU would like to invite him formally?
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACW
(alt.computer.workshop).
Really... I have only seen a few posts.
On 29/10/2025 19:21, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:58:13 AM MST, "%" wrote
<T8-dnfbktYNW_p_0nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>:
Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 11:39:25 AM MST, ""David B."" wrotehe's not a good option
<mmf5atF6ipsU2@mid.individual.net>:
On 28/10/2025 14:22, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:18:09 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc1l1Fkvk8U1@mid.individual.net>:
On 28/10/2025 13:57, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 28, 2025 at 3:22:54 AM MST, "Daniel70" wrote[....]
When I started my Electronics Technician training (1973) in the >>>>>>>>> Australian Army, we did a Four Year Apprenticeship.
For most trades (Electrical Mechanic/Electrical Fitter/Motor >>>>>>>>> Mechanic/Metal Worker/Carpenter/Plumber), it was two years Training >>>>>>>>> (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by two years OJT (On the
Job Training).
For my Electronic Technician (ET) training, it was three years >>>>>>>>> (Trade/Soldiering/General Education) followed by one year OJT (On the >>>>>>>>> Job Training).
When we ET's had finished our (main) Trade Training (November 1975), we
did TWO WEEKS (yes, a whole Two Weeks!!) on these 'new fangled Black >>>>>>>>> Box' things called Integrated Circuits. And that was it!!
Later (1990), as a requirement for promotion passed Sargeant, I had to
do my Associate Diploma of Engineering (Electronics).
I am sure you have some amazing stories you could tell.
Daniel sounds like a good new recruit for ACW! ;-)
Agreed.
Maybe YOU would like to invite him formally?
Daniel70... would love to have you come join us in ACW
(alt.computer.workshop).
Really... I have only seen a few posts.
Maybe your friend % will tell you WHY the Ozzie is not a "good option". Please ask him.
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com> wrote:
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu,Both are confirmed psychopaths.
23 Oct 2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to
take a photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott
Arizona is even worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com> wrote:Snit Michael Glasser Prescott Parasite and Computer Guy should use his
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, 23 Oct 2025Both are confirmed psychopaths.
21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to take a >>>>>>>> photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott Arizona is even
worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
On 2025-10-29 18:25, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com> wrote:Snit Michael Glasser Prescott Parasite and Computer Guy should use his amazing Mac screencasting software to explain to us how he isn't retarded.
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, 23 Oct 2025Both are confirmed psychopaths.
21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to take a >>>>>>>>> photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott Arizona is even
worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote in news:10du49i$383l4$3@pothead.dont-email.me:
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com> wrote:
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu,Both are confirmed psychopaths.
23 Oct 2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to
take a photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"?
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott
Arizona is even worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
How u figerin?
On 10/29/2025 6:25 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 3:22:38 PM MST, "Brock McNuggets" wrote
<690293ae$0$4159$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 1:24:06 PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<HJuMQ.1449276$ctz9.1282428@fx16.iad>:
On 10/29/2025 2:35 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
Alan claimed out of the blue that if my phone would scan like that, I'd >>>> prefer it.
And I am like you -- in general I like the "real" scanner. The iOS one does a
great job -- but the "real" one works better.
No idea why anyone would be offended by how someone else scans documents. >>>>
Android does pretty much the same thing:
https://youtu.be/E9xGQeRNjY4
That looks like a difficult process compared to using my flatbed and a
PC. Alan is just making shit up.
Instead of Files (or now Preview), you use Google Drive and it is very
similar. We can nitpick a few differences but they are clearly inspired by >>> each other.
OK, I checked: Google Drive added it to Android in 2013. Apple added it in >> 2017. So Android did much the same FOUR YEARS before Apple got there.
Go figure.
I once had a specialist come to my house to repair the air conditioning
unit on my SAAB 9.3 Estate car. I learned a great deal about
'refrigeration' during the few hours he was with me.
I don't know where you got the idea I was pissed off at you? over that.
If you have an MID though, feel free to share it. I know you're writing
this bullshit because you aren't happy with how I've been treating
Snit. You aren't fooling me or anyone else with this.
Can you remember WHEN this unit failure occurred?
If so, I'll do my very best to locate our Usenet conversation. I had a
quick look already but without success.
On 2025-10-28 18:42, Joel W. Crump wrote:Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10ds5n6$2jotc$1@dont-email.me Wed, 29 Oct 2025 04:37:57 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
Torvalds built on what already existed for Unix.
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with left in
the macOS kernel?
language OS family Unix-like, Unix[1] Working state >>>>>>>>>>> Current Source model Open-source Initial release
December 1996; 28 years ago'
You lose.
Read your own link. It says very clearly they imported the >>>>>>>>>> code from the Mach kernel, and they had to buy out another >>>>>>>>>> company to get the rights to it.
And that was more than 30 years ago.
You imagine that the kernel they're running now is the same?
Not entirely, obviously, but they never created it from scratch, >>>>>>>> as MS and GNU/Torvalds did.
How do you know MS did that?
You know that for Windows NT (which is still what the current
Windows OS is under the hood), Microsoft hired away the staff from >>>>>>> DEC who built VMS and heavily borrowed from the design of VMS,
right?
They hired Cutler and probably others, yeah, I know that. So
what?
So they built on what those people had already done before they came >>>>> to Microsoft.
They built on the minds that had done it before, yeah, that's not the
same as buying out DEC.
Actually, if you had done any research into it, you'd see they stole
wholesale from what DEC built.
No, I wouldn't see that because it's false. They at worst did a
clean- room implementation of Cutler's abstract OS concept. It was
not
You have no idea whether or not that's true.
But how could you do a clean room implementation...
...when you've hired the same software architect?
stolen. That they settled the lawsuit only says they had so much
money it wasn't worth fighting. They'd have won the legal battle, but
why bother? Windows NT turned into Windows XP and Windows 7, both of
which sold a lot of retail copies, big bucks for MS. Let the crybaby
former employers of Cutler get their settlement.
And you attempt (very poorly) to shift the goalposts.
Your point was that Apple did something different when they created
macOS.
They didn't.
Why didn't Apple hire anyone themselves, instead buying out NeXT,
which in turn didn't create the base code for the kernel? Oh,
Isn't buying out NeXT the same as hiring the people who worked for
Right but they didn't create Mach from scratch, either.
So what? Everyone builds on what has gone before.
You only seem to think it matters when it's Apple.
What did MS or Torvalds "build on what had gone before", source
code-wise?
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
Torvalds built on what already existed for Unix.
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with left in
the macOS kernel?
I had an Apple //e as our first family computer, between 1991-1995 (I
used it again once during college, just to avoid using the shared
Windows PC),
I tried every programming option there was, assembly was
far and away the only practical one. The Pascal was a whole operating system distinct from the standard one, there was no C compiler, and this
was by then a system that had been around for a while.
it would still leave the question of how overpriced the systems are.
On Oct 29, 2025 at 5:46:21 PM MST, "Stepin Fetchit" wrote <XnsB387D34DDF0F89999999999@62.164.182.25>:
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote in
news:10du49i$383l4$3@pothead.dont-email.me:
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com> wrote:
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, >>>>>>>> 23 Oct 2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:Both are confirmed psychopaths.
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to >>>>>>>>>> take a photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"? >>>>>>>>>>
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about. >>>>>>>>
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott
Arizona is even worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
How u figerin?
He is a white supremacist attacking me for being Jewish. Notice he
never shows any quotes or MIDs... just hatred.
Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in news:6902b9db$1$5007$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 5:46:21 PM MST, "Stepin Fetchit" wrote
<XnsB387D34DDF0F89999999999@62.164.182.25>:
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote in
news:10du49i$383l4$3@pothead.dont-email.me:
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com> wrote:
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, >>>>>>>>> 23 Oct 2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:Both are confirmed psychopaths.
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to >>>>>>>>>>> take a photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"? >>>>>>>>>>>
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about. >>>>>>>>>
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott >>>>>>>>> Arizona is even worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
How u figerin?
He is a white supremacist attacking me for being Jewish. Notice he
never shows any quotes or MIDs... just hatred.
So I don't know you nor do I know this POTHEAD you speak of. I landed
here from al.home.repair which has become infested with trolls as of
late.
Being a POTHEAD doesn't bode well though however apparently he is a she.
At least from what I have read. Not that it matters though. Women are
even nastier than men at times. Ask my ex wife. On second thought don't
as she has finally left me alone after an 11 year divorce suit. She
snagged some rich old coot who has deep pockets so the objective was to bankrupt me.
what the old coot doesn't know is that she used to be a rock star groupie and bingo banged so many people she lost track. Let's just say it's in
the 100's of different celebrities.
The organ between her legs looks like a rare chunk of roast beef.
totally worn out.
Anyhooo, how do you reach the conclusion that this POTHEAD is targeting
you because you are Jewish?
I do not see anything in these links you provided that indicates that.
<683367db$9$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <6831d3ac$0$16$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <688ff1ad$0$26$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <6895600b$0$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
Am I missing something because to be honest I do not see anything that indicates POTHEAD being a white supremacist. Maybe she is, but your links posted in no way prove that claim. Maybe you have additional links?
Please post if you do. Nice chatting with ya.
Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in news:6902b9db$1$5007$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 5:46:21 PM MST, "Stepin Fetchit" wrote
<XnsB387D34DDF0F89999999999@62.164.182.25>:
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote in
news:10du49i$383l4$3@pothead.dont-email.me:
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com> wrote:
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, >>>>>>>>> 23 Oct 2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:Both are confirmed psychopaths.
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to >>>>>>>>>>> take a photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"? >>>>>>>>>>>
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about. >>>>>>>>>
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott >>>>>>>>> Arizona is even worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
How u figerin?
He is a white supremacist attacking me for being Jewish. Notice he
never shows any quotes or MIDs... just hatred.
So I don't know you nor do I know this POTHEAD you speak of. I landed
here from al.home.repair which has become infested with trolls as of
late.
Being a POTHEAD doesn't bode well though however apparently he is a she.
At least from what I have read. Not that it matters though. Women are
even nastier than men at times. Ask my ex wife. On second thought don't
as she has finally left me alone after an 11 year divorce suit. She
snagged some rich old coot who has deep pockets so the objective was to bankrupt me.
what the old coot doesn't know is that she used to be a rock star groupie
and bingo banged so many people she lost track. Let's just say it's in
the 100's of different celebrities.
The organ between her legs looks like a rare chunk of roast beef.
totally worn out.
Anyhooo, how do you reach the conclusion that this POTHEAD is targeting
you because you are Jewish?
I do not see anything in these links you provided that indicates that.
<683367db$9$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6831d3ac$0$16$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<688ff1ad$0$26$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6895600b$0$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
Am I missing something because to be honest I do not see anything that indicates POTHEAD being a white supremacist. Maybe she is, but your links posted in no way prove that claim. Maybe you have additional links?
Please post if you do. Nice chatting with ya.
On 2025-10-30, Stepin Fetchit <BDLS1865@quiznope.net> wrote:
Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in
news:6902b9db$1$5007$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 5:46:21 PM MST, "Stepin Fetchit" wrote
<XnsB387D34DDF0F89999999999@62.164.182.25>:
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote in
news:10du49i$383l4$3@pothead.dont-email.me:
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com> wrote: >>>>>> In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, >>>>>>>>>> 23 Oct 2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote: >>>>>>>>>>Both are confirmed psychopaths.
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to >>>>>>>>>>>> take a photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"? >>>>>>>>>>>>
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about. >>>>>>>>>>
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott >>>>>>>>>> Arizona is even worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
How u figerin?
He is a white supremacist attacking me for being Jewish. Notice he
never shows any quotes or MIDs... just hatred.
So I don't know you nor do I know this POTHEAD you speak of. I landed
here from al.home.repair which has become infested with trolls as of
late.
At one time that was a decent group.
I haven't looked in a long time, but sad to hear it became infested with trolls.
Being a POTHEAD doesn't bode well though however apparently he is a she.
You are correct.
At least from what I have read. Not that it matters though. Women are
even nastier than men at times. Ask my ex wife. On second thought don't
as she has finally left me alone after an 11 year divorce suit. She
snagged some rich old coot who has deep pockets so the objective was to
bankrupt me.
A woman scorned :)
Currently the court system is highly biased in favor of the woman, especially when children are involved.
Unfortunate but true.
what the old coot doesn't know is that she used to be a rock star groupie
and bingo banged so many people she lost track. Let's just say it's in
the 100's of different celebrities.
The organ between her legs looks like a rare chunk of roast beef.
totally worn out.
Ewwww...
TMI.
She isn't "Sweet Sweet Connie" perchance?
Anyhooo, how do you reach the conclusion that this POTHEAD is targeting
you because you are Jewish?
Snit Michael Glasser of Prescott Arizona simply makes up stories with nothing to back them up.
He depends upon readers not actually checking his sources so they simply believe him.
While this trick has worked in the past, snit Michael Glasser of Prescott Arizona has developed
such a poor reputation due to his prolific dishonesty and lying, that at least
in groups
where his name is recognized nobody believes a word of what he posts.
I do not see anything in these links you provided that indicates that.
Not a single person has come forward supporting snit's links.
Not one.
And it's the same for links he posts out of context supposedly supporting snit's
claims against Steve Carroll or Gremlin.
People have checked and rechecked those links and the conclusion with all of them has
been that snit is lying, taking comments out of context and so forth.
It goes to show what level of slime snit Michael Glasser will sink to in order
to slime
a person.
<683367db$9$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6831d3ac$0$16$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<688ff1ad$0$26$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6895600b$0$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
Am I missing something because to be honest I do not see anything that
indicates POTHEAD being a white supremacist. Maybe she is, but your links
posted in no way prove that claim. Maybe you have additional links?
Please post if you do. Nice chatting with ya.
Snit Michael Glasser of Prescott Arizona has nothing additional.
This is it.
And thank you for actually checking the links because as you have discovered none of
them, in no way support snit's claims.
I suggest you avoid replying directly to snit in the future.
Not a demand, just a friendly suggestion.
Take care.
Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in news:6902b9db$1$5007$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 5:46:21 PM MST, "Stepin Fetchit" wrote
<XnsB387D34DDF0F89999999999@62.164.182.25>:
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote in
news:10du49i$383l4$3@pothead.dont-email.me:
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com> wrote:
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, >>>>>>>>> 23 Oct 2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:Both are confirmed psychopaths.
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to >>>>>>>>>>> take a photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"? >>>>>>>>>>>
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about. >>>>>>>>>
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott >>>>>>>>> Arizona is even worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
How u figerin?
He is a white supremacist attacking me for being Jewish. Notice he
never shows any quotes or MIDs... just hatred.
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mmfnr4F9hsnU1@mid.individual.net Wed,
29 Oct 2025 23:55:16 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
I once had a specialist come to my house to repair the air conditioning
unit on my SAAB 9.3 Estate car. I learned a great deal about
'refrigeration' during the few hours he was with me.
Which has nothing to do with my long reply that I wasted my time writing
to you. Fact is, you attacked me because you don't like how I treat Snit.
All you're really doing at the end of the day is adding interest to the
debt I'm going to collect on concerning him. I've told him before that
you're out for you and you don't give two shits about him. You know as
well as I do that I can Jenn him with ease and there's nothing you can do except to watch it go down. It was all you could do when I decided i'd had enough of Jenns bullshit and taught her a lesson she'll never forget. I
went out of my way to go the extra mile with her because of some things
you wrote about/to me. You do know that right? After I fucked her over
good, I went after your friend Eagle because you didn't get the message - even though I turned her real life upside down.
You knowingly lied about having anything to do with my joining the
electrical trade. You made it up just as you did the post you pinged me
about - thanking me for bullshit you wrote and tried to attribute to me.
The moment I asked for proof of my authorship, you took another approach. Falsely claiming credit for the hard work I put in and the knowledge I acquired to officially become an electrician.
I don't know where you got the idea I was pissed off at you? over that.
If you have an MID though, feel free to share it. I know you're writing
this bullshit because you aren't happy with how I've been treating
Snit. You aren't fooling me or anyone else with this.
Can you remember WHEN this unit failure occurred?
If so, I'll do my very best to locate our Usenet conversation. I had a
quick look already but without success.
You're the one who accused me of getting pissed off - but you can't find
the conversation we supposedly had to back your statements? AND, you lied your fucking ass off about my joining the electrical trade on your advice. You lie with damn near every post. All because you failed to con me into hacking into those servers for your benefit and yours alone. You were
lying to me through out the emails you sent me. You even tried to use your dead son - specifically the interest in computers he had - to try and
further con me.
You thought I'd fall for the common interest in computers - You *used the memory of your son* to try and do it.
You did all of that trying to earn my trust so you could take advantage of the skills I have to help you out. I wouldn't then, I damn sure won't do anything for you now going forward.
Your emails were never really about support for BugHunter. Your goal was always to get me to use skills you already confirmed I have to help you
out. When you couldn't do so, that's when you decided you had a problem
with me.
I've had enough of your bullshit, David. I've helped you out with
technical matters when nobody else would do so; either because they didn't know (Mike Easter is a good example there) how to help you, or didn't have the time or didn't feel like helping you because they know what and who
you are.
You can continue trying to bait me as Snit has been doing withuot success
of any kind for months now. I'm just going to ignore you (as I have snit) going forward. It really pisses him off too - It's a dead give away
because he replies to almost all of my posts. Repeatedly claims to bring receipts that have wound up further exposing him not only as a fuckwhit
and a liar, but also catching ridicule for it from people I don't even
know who took the time to fact check his claims.
You are a proven liar and a proven drunk. Two facts I remind you of that
you wish I didn't. Facts you can't hide or run from or even twist around
for your benefit. I could have been a valuable asset to you. I've proven
my skill and knowledge. I've helped you out several times when I owed you nothing of the sort. I tried to prove to you that I'm not a blackhat
anymore. I didn't have to do that. I did hoping that you'd understand that
I am one of the good guys and have been for a long fucking time now. You refuse to accept facts. You just want to troll me. You are pissed because
you couldn't bullshit me into trusting you. You will never be able to get
me to trust you. Not ever.
I will always see you for what you actually are. A dishonest, piece of
shit drunkard and stalker. My views of you won't ever change.
I'm done with you David. I never had much tolerance for xian pondscum and
you are certainly that too.
Respond if you wish, but, I will not waste anymore time with you.
Btw, this is a picture of pcbutts. He's not and has never been an honest person. He's always been like you and snit.
https://ibb.co/bg87dPNZ
So much for being a white female. He lifted the white female picture from a modeling agency website and you can't defend that either.
I don't know why Apd SC or anyone else wastes their time with you. They mistakenly think that by treating you kindly that you'll smarten up and
doing the wrong shit. I know you won't. Let them continue wasting their
time and energy on a lost cause. I won't.
On 30/10/2025 03:29, Gremlin wrote:
"David B." <BD@hotmail.co.uk> news:mmfnr4F9hsnU1@mid.individual.net Wed,
29 Oct 2025 23:55:16 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
I once had a specialist come to my house to repair the air conditioning
unit on my SAAB 9.3 Estate car. I learned a great deal about
'refrigeration' during the few hours he was with me.
Which has nothing to do with my long reply that I wasted my time writing
to you. Fact is, you attacked me because you don't like how I treat Snit.
I do *NOT* like how you treat Snit. That is absolutely correct!
All you're really doing at the end of the day is adding interest to the
debt I'm going to collect on concerning him. I've told him before that
you're out for you and you don't give two shits about him. You know as
well as I do that I can Jenn him with ease and there's nothing you can do
except to watch it go down. It was all you could do when I decided i'd had >> enough of Jenns bullshit and taught her a lesson she'll never forget. I
went out of my way to go the extra mile with her because of some things
you wrote about/to me. You do know that right? After I fucked her over
good, I went after your friend Eagle because you didn't get the message -
even though I turned her real life upside down.
You attacked Dave Eagle just after his wife died. That was unforgivable.
Her Facebook page is still on line.
You knowingly lied about having anything to do with my joining the
electrical trade. You made it up just as you did the post you pinged me
about - thanking me for bullshit you wrote and tried to attribute to me.
The moment I asked for proof of my authorship, you took another approach.
Falsely claiming credit for the hard work I put in and the knowledge I
acquired to officially become an electrician.
I made up nothing, Dustin.
I don't know where you got the idea I was pissed off at you? over that. >>>> If you have an MID though, feel free to share it. I know you're writing >>>> this bullshit because you aren't happy with how I've been treating
Snit. You aren't fooling me or anyone else with this.
Can you remember WHEN this unit failure occurred?
If so, I'll do my very best to locate our Usenet conversation. I had a
quick look already but without success.
You're the one who accused me of getting pissed off - but you can't find
the conversation we supposedly had to back your statements? AND, you lied
your fucking ass off about my joining the electrical trade on your advice. >> You lie with damn near every post. All because you failed to con me into
hacking into those servers for your benefit and yours alone. You were
lying to me through out the emails you sent me. You even tried to use your >> dead son - specifically the interest in computers he had - to try and
further con me.
I have never tried to "con" you, Dustin. You've had a closed mind.
You thought I'd fall for the common interest in computers - You *used the
memory of your son* to try and do it.
You did all of that trying to earn my trust so you could take advantage of >> the skills I have to help you out. I wouldn't then, I damn sure won't do
anything for you now going forward.
You should ask the lurker '...winston' about my integrity. He KNOWS the truth.
Your emails were never really about support for BugHunter. Your goal was
always to get me to use skills you already confirmed I have to help you
out. When you couldn't do so, that's when you decided you had a problem
with me.
You are correct. None of my emails to you were about BugHunter.
I've had enough of your bullshit, David. I've helped you out with
technical matters when nobody else would do so; either because they didn't >> know (Mike Easter is a good example there) how to help you, or didn't have >> the time or didn't feel like helping you because they know what and who
you are.
I'm one of life's "good guys", Dustin!
You can continue trying to bait me as Snit has been doing withuot success
of any kind for months now. I'm just going to ignore you (as I have snit)
going forward. It really pisses him off too - It's a dead give away
because he replies to almost all of my posts. Repeatedly claims to bring
receipts that have wound up further exposing him not only as a fuckwhit
and a liar, but also catching ridicule for it from people I don't even
know who took the time to fact check his claims.
Snit can, and does, provide evidence for all of his claims.
You are a proven liar and a proven drunk. Two facts I remind you of that
you wish I didn't. Facts you can't hide or run from or even twist around
for your benefit. I could have been a valuable asset to you. I've proven
my skill and knowledge. I've helped you out several times when I owed you
nothing of the sort. I tried to prove to you that I'm not a blackhat
anymore. I didn't have to do that. I did hoping that you'd understand that >> I am one of the good guys and have been for a long fucking time now. You
refuse to accept facts. You just want to troll me. You are pissed because
you couldn't bullshit me into trusting you. You will never be able to get
me to trust you. Not ever.
You lie, Dustin. Period.
I will always see you for what you actually are. A dishonest, piece of
shit drunkard and stalker. My views of you won't ever change.
I'm done with you David. I never had much tolerance for xian pondscum and
you are certainly that too.
Respond if you wish, but, I will not waste anymore time with you.
It really shows when you take drugs and are delusional.
--Btw, this is a picture of pcbutts. He's not and has never been an honest
person. He's always been like you and snit.
https://ibb.co/bg87dPNZ
So much for being a white female. He lifted the white female picture from a >> modeling agency website and you can't defend that either.
The BTS fellow stalked him and proved that. What made you think I didn't believe that?
I don't know why Apd SC or anyone else wastes their time with you. They
mistakenly think that by treating you kindly that you'll smarten up and
doing the wrong shit. I know you won't. Let them continue wasting their
time and energy on a lost cause. I won't.
You should ask them! ;-)
On 2025-10-30 18:02, Stepin Fetchit wrote:
Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in
news:6902b9db$1$5007$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 5:46:21 PM MST, "Stepin Fetchit" wrote
<XnsB387D34DDF0F89999999999@62.164.182.25>:
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote in
news:10du49i$383l4$3@pothead.dont-email.me:
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com> wrote: >>>>>> In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me Thu, >>>>>>>>>> 23 Oct 2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote: >>>>>>>>>>Both are confirmed psychopaths.
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to >>>>>>>>>>>> take a photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"? >>>>>>>>>>>>
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is about. >>>>>>>>>>
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott >>>>>>>>>> Arizona is even worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
How u figerin?
He is a white supremacist attacking me for being Jewish. Notice he
never shows any quotes or MIDs... just hatred.
Snit Michael Glasser Prescott Parasite and Computer Guy is about as
Jewish as spaghetti.
He might have Ashkenazi roots which explain why
he's one of the most annoying human beings alive,
but he isn't part of
the Jewish community, doesn't follow the traditions, doesn't have the
faith and so on.
By saying that he is Jewish, he is attempting to use
religion to play the victim because every other tactic has now failed him. <snip >
On Oct 30, 2025 at 3:02:32 PM MST, "Stepin Fetchit" wrote <XnsB388B78937E49999999999@62.164.182.23>:
Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in
news:6902b9db$1$5007$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 5:46:21 PM MST, "Stepin Fetchit" wrote
<XnsB387D34DDF0F89999999999@62.164.182.25>:
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote in
news:10du49i$383l4$3@pothead.dont-email.me:
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com>
wrote:
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.meBoth are confirmed psychopaths.
Thu, 23 Oct 2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
wrote:
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to >>>>>>>>>>>> take a photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"? >>>>>>>>>>>>
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is
about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott >>>>>>>>>> Arizona is even worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
How u figerin?
He is a white supremacist attacking me for being Jewish. Notice he
never shows any quotes or MIDs... just hatred.
So I don't know you nor do I know this POTHEAD you speak of. I landed
here from al.home.repair which has become infested with trolls as of
late.
Being a POTHEAD doesn't bode well though however apparently he is a
she. At least from what I have read. Not that it matters though.
Women are even nastier than men at times. Ask my ex wife. On second
thought don't as she has finally left me alone after an 11 year
divorce suit. She snagged some rich old coot who has deep pockets so
the objective was to bankrupt me.
what the old coot doesn't know is that she used to be a rock star
groupie and bingo banged so many people she lost track. Let's just
say it's in the 100's of different celebrities.
The organ between her legs looks like a rare chunk of roast beef.
totally worn out.
Anyhooo, how do you reach the conclusion that this POTHEAD is
targeting you because you are Jewish?
I do not see anything in these links you provided that indicates
that.
<683367db$9$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6831d3ac$0$16$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<688ff1ad$0$26$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6895600b$0$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
Am I missing something because to be honest I do not see anything
that indicates POTHEAD being a white supremacist. Maybe she is, but
your links posted in no way prove that claim. Maybe you have
additional links? Please post if you do. Nice chatting with ya.
First: Pronoun use. Whatever she is, she has asked me to use she / her pronouns and I try to respect that. Thanks for the correct.
Second: Alignment with white supremacist rhetoric. From an old post,
based on those links:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* "Open borders" and "flooding the country" -- classic Great
Replacement rhetoric claiming elites import non-white migrants to
weaken America. https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/great-replacement-theory
* Dehumanizing immigrants -- calling them "criminals," "terrorists,"
"mental patients" mirrors far-right propaganda that paints migrants as threats rather than people. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/vdare
* "Lazy grifters" vs. "hard-working taxpayers" -- Reagan-era dog
whistle that racializes poverty and casts minorities as parasites. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/americas-welfare-myths/
* "America First" -- a slogan with origins in white-nationalist
movements; see the Anti-Defamation League background: https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/history-phrase-america-first
Bottom Line: Pothead repeats the core logic of white-supremacist
politics -- outsiders as invaders, welfare as theft, and "real
Americans" as victims -- using coded language that normalizes racial hierarchy. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in news:6903f4ea$5$27$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
On Oct 30, 2025 at 3:02:32 PM MST, "Stepin Fetchit" wrote
<XnsB388B78937E49999999999@62.164.182.23>:
Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in
news:6902b9db$1$5007$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
On Oct 29, 2025 at 5:46:21 PM MST, "Stepin Fetchit" wrote
<XnsB387D34DDF0F89999999999@62.164.182.25>:
pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote in
news:10du49i$383l4$3@pothead.dont-email.me:
On 2025-10-28, Richard Bone <dboner23339019ggg@entermail.com>
wrote:
In article <6900e6b4$1$18$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
On Oct 28, 2025 at 7:29:06 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote
<mmc29iFl3qvU1@mid.individual.net>:
On 27/10/2025 23:15, pothead wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10de82a$267m2$1@dont-email.me >>>>>>>>>>> Thu, 23 Oct 2025 21:52:10 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:Both are confirmed psychopaths.
On 2025-10-23 14:16, David B. wrote:
Serious question! If I use my iPhone as if I'm going to >>>>>>>>>>>>> take a photograph of a document *HOW do I select "Preview"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please: no one answer this asshole.
+1 Solid advice. :) I see you know what David Brooks is
about.
Brock McNuggets aka Snit aka Michael Lee Glasser of Prescott >>>>>>>>>>> Arizona is even worse. Just a heads up.
Best to avoid.
You simply cannot bear to face the truth.
Explain why, dopey. (Dope = pot (head))
Back to tech...
Snit speaks of tech?
Now that's a laugh and a half seeing as snit is a
technical retard.
In fact snit is a retard in general.
A court jester.
ROTFLMAO!
So true.
How u figerin?
He is a white supremacist attacking me for being Jewish. Notice he
never shows any quotes or MIDs... just hatred.
So I don't know you nor do I know this POTHEAD you speak of. I landed
here from al.home.repair which has become infested with trolls as of
late.
Being a POTHEAD doesn't bode well though however apparently he is a
she. At least from what I have read. Not that it matters though.
Women are even nastier than men at times. Ask my ex wife. On second
thought don't as she has finally left me alone after an 11 year
divorce suit. She snagged some rich old coot who has deep pockets so
the objective was to bankrupt me.
what the old coot doesn't know is that she used to be a rock star
groupie and bingo banged so many people she lost track. Let's just
say it's in the 100's of different celebrities.
The organ between her legs looks like a rare chunk of roast beef.
totally worn out.
Anyhooo, how do you reach the conclusion that this POTHEAD is
targeting you because you are Jewish?
I do not see anything in these links you provided that indicates
that.
<683367db$9$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6831d3ac$0$16$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<688ff1ad$0$26$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6895600b$0$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
Am I missing something because to be honest I do not see anything
that indicates POTHEAD being a white supremacist. Maybe she is, but
your links posted in no way prove that claim. Maybe you have
additional links? Please post if you do. Nice chatting with ya.
First: Pronoun use. Whatever she is, she has asked me to use she / her
pronouns and I try to respect that. Thanks for the correct.
That is good.
I do try to offer the same level of respect for people.
It's just a small amount of bending a little but goes a long way.
Second: Alignment with white supremacist rhetoric. From an old post,
based on those links:
Vague opinions that you consider aligning with WS rhetoric are simply
your evaluation of the circumstances.
They are not clear cut examples like for example "I want KKK members
tried and hung because of their beliefs".
Apples and oranges and a huge not logical stretch on your part.
More below.
First of all, I am a moderate, left democrat.
I do not like MAGA nor Trump.
I have voted Democrat for decades if that means anything.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* "Open borders" and "flooding the country" -- classic Great
Replacement rhetoric claiming elites import non-white migrants to
weaken America.
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/great-replacement-theory
What we had under the Biden administration was for all practical purposes
an open border system.
I read your link and POTHEAD says nothing about "great replacement-
theory" as you call it.
It seems she wants secure borders.
Don't you?
I do.
Also you are assuming that non whites are being targeted as "white replacements", I see nothing in your links offering proof of that
accusation. You do realize that migrants from many nations have illegally crossed the border under the Biden administration. They aren't all brown Mexicans.
Your accusation here has no merit.
* Dehumanizing immigrants -- calling them "criminals," "terrorists,"
"mental patients" mirrors far-right propaganda that paints migrants as
threats rather than people.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/vdare
A person illegally migrating to the USA has broken the law from day one.
What do you call them?
And why should they be allowed to break the law with no consequences when there are people waiting in line who have provided the documentation to immigrate legally?
As for terrorists, many on the terrorist lists have been intercepted.
How many haven't?
Obviously not all migrants are terrorists but it only takes 7 to take
down buildings like 9-11.
As for illegals in general, we have an epidemic of illegals somehow
obtaining CDL when they can't speak English nor identify common road
signs to drive 18 wheelers and crashing them killing people who are
innocent.
How would you feel if it were your family?
How about those who have been raped, killed, assaulted by illegals?
Sure crimes by citizens happen every day but those comitted by illegals
are 100% preventable as they should not have been in USA in the first
place.
What about child/woman trafficking?
Do you support that?
Almost 1/2 a million children who cannot be accounted for admitted under
the Biden administration.
* "Lazy grifters" vs. "hard-working taxpayers" -- Reagan-era dog
whistle that racializes poverty and casts minorities as parasites.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/americas-welfare-myths/
You needd to educate yourself.
The illegals come here are given luxurary hotel rooms to stay in, free
cell phones, food, medical care, education and yet they still complain! <https://nypost.com/2023/12/15/metro/migrants-reject-sandwiches-chicken-dishes-at-nyc-shelters/>
They want healthy foods?
Why not ask the veteran suffering from PTSD and living on the street
about that one.
A person who can work and refuses to by gaming the system *IS* a
parasite.
What would you call them?
* "America First" -- a slogan with origins in white-nationalist
movements; see the Anti-Defamation League background:
https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/history-phrase-america-first
You cannot be serious.
Joe Biden put America last by taking care of the entire world while
screwing America.
What is wrong with putting America first?
And BTW, that phrase does not mean other countries are not given
assistance.
Name a single country on the planet that does not put their own country first.
You can't.
Bottom Line: Pothead repeats the core logic of white-supremacist
politics -- outsiders as invaders, welfare as theft, and "real
Americans" as victims -- using coded language that normalizes racial
hierarchy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wrong.
You have proved nothing but far out conjecture and opinions.
Nothing, at least in your evidence, indicates that POTHEAD is a white supremacist.
Not a single comment by POTHEAD.
And just so you understand as a card carrying democrat for decades I
agree with what POTHEAD wrote and being a minority myself who has
relatives who were once slaves I feel I can speak honestly.
Conclusion:::: Your claims and links have zero merit.
If you have additional evidence please post it and we can discuss.
He says he is done with you. I think he is lying.
At Wed, 29 Oct 2025 14:05:01 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-29 13:44, Joel W. Crump wrote:
And yet their Unix components can't compete with Linux distros,
their
Another claim you'll never substantiate.
I can, see below.
focus is macOS-native development, running on top of a hackedUmmmmm...no.
edition of Unix, with real Unix-native support being an
afterthought.
Agreed. MacOS is UNIX(tm). However, it is limited...
macOS is still a certified UNIX OS.
Yes. But it is still limited when compared to Linux, which is a
superset of UNIX. (Nevertheless, not many Linux distributions
are UNIX certified.)
Take the matter of supplemental groups.
Linux:
$ cat try.c
#include <stdio.h>
#include <limits.h>
int main (void)
{
printf("%d\n",NGROUPS_MAX);
return 0;
}
_[/home/scott/src/groups]_(scott@lm)🐧_
$ make try
cc try.c -o try
_[/home/scott/src/groups]_(scott@lm)🐧_
$ ./try
65536
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
Okay, now MacOS:
$ cat ngroups.c
#include <stdio.h>
#include <limits.h>
int main (void)
{
printf("%d\n",NGROUPS_MAX);
return 0;
}
_[/Users/scott/ngroups]_(scott@mac-studio)🍏_
$ make ngroups
cc -g -O2 -std=c90 -Wall -Werror -pedantic ngroups.c -o ngroups _[/Users/scott/ngroups]_(scott@mac-studio)🍏_
$ ./ngroups
16
"But surely", you might say, "16 groups should be enough!"
Well, let's look on the mac:
$ id uid=502(scott) gid=20(staff) groups=20(staff),12(everyone),61(localaccounts),79(_appserverusr),80(admin),81(_appserveradm),98(_lpadmin),701(com.apple.sharepoint.group.1),33(_appstore),100(_lpoperator),204(_developer),250(_analyticsusers),395(com.apple.access_ftp),398(com.apple.access_screensharing),399(com.apple.access_ssh),400(com.apple.access_remote_ae)
All 16 supplemental groups are used up.
Oops.
BTW, Linux can join an Active Directory server (running on Linux or Windows), so the administrator can assign groups to users to facilitate shared
access to different projects.
But even if one is using /etc/groups, I'm not sure how one would set up
such a thing on MacOS. The groups are full! I guess you'd have to use setfacl to add users individually -- which is more of a chore, and I don't think that can be centrally-managed.
Linux allows 65536 supplemental groups.
And that's just one example. Want more?
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10ds5n6$2jotc$1@dont-email.me Wed, 29 Oct 2025 04:37:57 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-28 18:42, Joel W. Crump wrote:Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10ds5n6$2jotc$1@dont-email.me Wed, 29 Oct 2025 04:37:57 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
It doesn't share a single actual line of code with VMS. It actually is a rewrite from scratch originally in C.
And MS didn't develop Windows NT
entirely on their own. Before the partnership imploded and two companies
went their own ways, It was originally going to be called NT OS/2 - a 32bit version of OS/2. The original one was 16bit and intended to replace DOS.
https://www.os2museum.com/wp/nt-and-os2/
Torvalds built on what already existed for Unix.
Not exactly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with left in
the macOS kernel?
There is none from what Apple started off with. Classic Mac OS has no code share with the modern MacOS; they're entirely two different beasties.
FWIW, I don't know why you're wasting your time arguing with Joel. He knows about as much as David Brooks does concerning computers. Operating systems aren't really his thing. He assumed that MS was able to black list his computer from being able to install it at one point. His hardware knowledge isn't so good either - he opted to build his own rig but managed to order
the wrong parts to do it with. I don't know about you, but, that doesn't
show experience or understanding of what the fuck you're doing in my book.
To each his/her own I suppose?
On 2025-10-29 14:42, vallor wrote:
At Wed, 29 Oct 2025 14:05:01 -0700, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
On 2025-10-29 13:44, Joel W. Crump wrote:
And yet their Unix components can't compete with Linux distros,
their
Another claim you'll never substantiate.
I can, see below.
focus is macOS-native development, running on top of a hackedUmmmmm...no.
edition of Unix, with real Unix-native support being an
afterthought.
Agreed. MacOS is UNIX(tm). However, it is limited...
macOS is still a certified UNIX OS.
Yes. But it is still limited when compared to Linux, which is a
superset of UNIX. (Nevertheless, not many Linux distributions
are UNIX certified.)
Take the matter of supplemental groups.
Linux:
$ cat try.c
#include <stdio.h>
#include <limits.h>
int main (void)
{
printf("%d\n",NGROUPS_MAX);
return 0;
}
_[/home/scott/src/groups]_(scott@lm)🐧_
$ make try
cc try.c -o try
_[/home/scott/src/groups]_(scott@lm)🐧_
$ ./try
65536
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
Okay, now MacOS:
$ cat ngroups.c
#include <stdio.h>
#include <limits.h>
int main (void)
{
printf("%d\n",NGROUPS_MAX);
return 0;
}
_[/Users/scott/ngroups]_(scott@mac-studio)🍏_
$ make ngroups
cc -g -O2 -std=c90 -Wall -Werror -pedantic ngroups.c -o ngroups
_[/Users/scott/ngroups]_(scott@mac-studio)🍏_
$ ./ngroups
16
"But surely", you might say, "16 groups should be enough!"
Well, let's look on the mac:
$ id uid=502(scott) gid=20(staff)
groups=20(staff),12(everyone),61(localaccounts),79(_appserverusr),80(admin),81(_appserveradm),98(_lpadmin),701(com.apple.sharepoint.group.1),33(_appstore),100(_lpoperator),204(_developer),250(_analyticsusers),395(com.apple.access_ftp),398(com.apple.access_screensharing),399(com.apple.access_ssh),400(com.apple.access_remote_ae)
All 16 supplemental groups are used up.
Oops.
BTW, Linux can join an Active Directory server (running on Linux or
Windows),
so the administrator can assign groups to users to facilitate shared
access to different projects.
But even if one is using /etc/groups, I'm not sure how one would set up
such a thing on MacOS. The groups are full! I guess you'd have to use
setfacl to add users individually -- which is more of a chore, and I
don't
think that can be centrally-managed.
Linux allows 65536 supplemental groups.
And that's just one example. Want more?
It's a tiny implementation detail that matters to maybe 5 people on the planet.
And macOS can join an Active Directory server.
I know this... ...because I've done it.
<https://systemsupport.synergiaone.com/joined-macos-to-windows-active- directory-domain-ad/>
So I'm not sure why you mentioned that.
On 2025-10-30 14:51, Gremlin wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10ds5n6$2jotc$1@dont-email.me Wed, 29 Oct
2025 04:37:57 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-28 18:42, Joel W. Crump wrote:Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10ds5n6$2jotc$1@dont-email.me Wed, 29 Oct
2025 04:37:57 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
It doesn't share a single actual line of code with VMS. It actually is
a rewrite from scratch originally in C.
So what?
Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in news:6902b9db$1$5007$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
He is a white supremacist attacking me for being Jewish. Notice he
never shows any quotes or MIDs... just hatred.
So I don't know you nor do I know this POTHEAD you speak of. I landed
here from al.home.repair which has become infested with trolls as of
late.
Being a POTHEAD doesn't bode well though however apparently he is a she.
At least from what I have read.
Anyhooo, how do you reach the conclusion that this POTHEAD is targeting
you because you are Jewish?
I do not see anything in these links you provided that indicates that.
<683367db$9$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6831d3ac$0$16$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<688ff1ad$0$26$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6895600b$0$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
Am I missing something because to be honest I do not see anything that indicates POTHEAD being a white supremacist. Maybe she is, but your links posted in no way prove that claim. Maybe you have additional links?
Please post if you do. Nice chatting with ya.
<https://tinyurl.com/WhatIsSnit>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitliesmethods>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snit-Reviews>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitwhopperlie>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snit-teddybear>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitonduck>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitongoogle>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse1>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse2>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse3>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse4>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse5>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse6>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse7>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse8>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse9>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse10>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse11>
On 2025-10-30 14:51, Gremlin wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10ds5n6$2jotc$1@dont-email.me Wed, 29 Oct 2025 >> 04:37:57 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-28 18:42, Joel W. Crump wrote:Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10ds5n6$2jotc$1@dont-email.me Wed, 29 Oct 2025 >> 04:37:57 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
It doesn't share a single actual line of code with VMS. It actually is a
rewrite from scratch originally in C.
So what?
--And MS didn't develop Windows NT
entirely on their own. Before the partnership imploded and two companies
went their own ways, It was originally going to be called NT OS/2 - a 32bit >> version of OS/2. The original one was 16bit and intended to replace DOS.
I know that.
https://www.os2museum.com/wp/nt-and-os2/
Torvalds built on what already existed for Unix.
Not exactly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Linux
You think there's much source from what Apple started off with left in
the macOS kernel?
There is none from what Apple started off with. Classic Mac OS has no code >> share with the modern MacOS; they're entirely two different beasties.
FWIW, I don't know why you're wasting your time arguing with Joel. He knows >> about as much as David Brooks does concerning computers. Operating systems >> aren't really his thing. He assumed that MS was able to black list his
computer from being able to install it at one point. His hardware knowledge >> isn't so good either - he opted to build his own rig but managed to order
the wrong parts to do it with. I don't know about you, but, that doesn't
show experience or understanding of what the fuck you're doing in my book. >> To each his/her own I suppose?
Stepin Fetchit <BDLS1865@quiznope.net> news:XnsB388B78937E49999999999@62.164.182.23 Thu, 30 Oct 2025 22:02:32 GMT
in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in
news:6902b9db$1$5007$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:
He is a white supremacist attacking me for being Jewish. Notice he
never shows any quotes or MIDs... just hatred.
So I don't know you nor do I know this POTHEAD you speak of. I landed
here from al.home.repair which has become infested with trolls as of
late.
Being a POTHEAD doesn't bode well though however apparently he is a she.
At least from what I have read.
If you knew the person is a she you also know the handle has nothing to do with marijuana...
Just so you know, Snit is very well known for socking and
comments like that might cause some people? to assume you're another one of them. Just a heads up.
Anyhooo, how do you reach the conclusion that this POTHEAD is targeting
you because you are Jewish?
Snit likes to make up stories about people. He also likes to morph them as people question what he wrote.
I do not see anything in these links you provided that indicates that.
<683367db$9$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6831d3ac$0$16$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<688ff1ad$0$26$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
<6895600b$0$10360$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
You don't see it because it's not there. Snit is trying to bullshit people who don't already know about his game.
Am I missing something because to be honest I do not see anything that
indicates POTHEAD being a white supremacist. Maybe she is, but your links
posted in no way prove that claim. Maybe you have additional links?
Please post if you do. Nice chatting with ya.
Need some links do ya? I've got you! Brock McNuggets is Snit, btw. Checkout these links and have a good read.
<https://tinyurl.com/WhatIsSnit>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitliesmethods>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snit-Reviews>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitwhopperlie>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snit-teddybear>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitonduck>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitongoogle>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse1>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse2>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse3>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse4>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse5>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse6>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse7>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse8>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse9>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse10>
<https://tinyurl.com/Snitdrugabuse11>
I'm sure you'll find them quite interesting. Don't be too embarrased that
you almost got taken in by him, he's been doing the trolling thing for a
long fucking time. Just don't ask him about how he nearly pissed on his own cat. ROFL!
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10e2sna$m55v$2@dont-email.me Fri, 31 Oct 2025 17:47:22 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-30 14:51, Gremlin wrote:
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10ds5n6$2jotc$1@dont-email.me Wed, 29 Oct
2025 04:37:57 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On 2025-10-28 18:42, Joel W. Crump wrote:Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> news:10ds5n6$2jotc$1@dont-email.me Wed, 29 Oct
2025 04:37:57 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
MS built on VMS for Windows NT.
It doesn't share a single actual line of code with VMS. It actually is
a rewrite from scratch originally in C.
So what?
Hmm....I think I better understand you now. You and Joel along with Snit could
become friends. The three of you have atleast one thing in common. Have a good
weekend, Alan!
BTW, Linux can join an Active Directory server (running on Linux or
Windows),
so the administrator can assign groups to users to facilitate shared
access to different projects.
But even if one is using /etc/groups, I'm not sure how one would set up
such a thing on MacOS. The groups are full! I guess you'd have to use >>> setfacl to add users individually -- which is more of a chore, and I
don't
think that can be centrally-managed.
Linux allows 65536 supplemental groups.
And that's just one example. Want more?
It's a tiny implementation detail that matters to maybe 5 people on
the planet.
And macOS can join an Active Directory server.
I know this... ...because I've done it.
<https://systemsupport.synergiaone.com/joined-macos-to-windows-active-
directory-domain-ad/>
So I'm not sure why you mentioned that.
What vallor posted is one thing, but Darwin isn't like a Linux distro, you'll be stuck manually setting up apps, Apple doesn't want macOS to beWhat has that to do with my question about why he mentioned Linux being
a modern Unix implementation, they want to exploit its underlying
benefits to bolster their lackluster crapware, which works well enough,
but it's not genuinely Unix in a way people recognize, if they've seen Linux.
| Sysop: | DaiTengu |
|---|---|
| Location: | Appleton, WI |
| Users: | 1,075 |
| Nodes: | 10 (0 / 10) |
| Uptime: | 90:35:11 |
| Calls: | 13,798 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 186,989 |
| D/L today: |
5,332 files (1,536M bytes) |
| Messages: | 2,438,212 |
