From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 8/24/25 21:26, Marion wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 17:14:04 -0400, -hh wrote :

Because the greater overall wealth of iPhone customers alone would
suggest they have a greater ability for a higher turnover rate, this
implies some other, more significant factor is in play. There's a lot
of cheap Androids, so the longer iPhone life could be due to Apple's
market decision to not sell cheap low build quality phones which are
more prone to breaking/dying more quickly.

Sometimes you make sense.
Sometimes you make no sense.

Your argument is absurd.

Nope, far from it. Sorry that it went over your head.

First off, you're cherry picking since the vast majority of phones out
there are NOT iPhones, so you're ignoring the vast majority of owners.

Of course I am, because I'm looking at just the domestic market, which
is where these replacement & income metrics were from. That there's a
billion 3rd world customers too just isn't relevant.

You're literally cherry picking only the wealthy owners, and then, you triumphantly declare that they're rich & intelligent in the same breath.

No, the logic is A > B, and B > C, therefore A > C. The A > B part was
noting that smartphone demographic research data shows that the two
customer populations aren't the same, with those who choose Apple
correlating to significantly higher incomes. The B > C part refers to non-smartphone studies which show that higher incomes are correlated to
having higher educational achievement. Both studies are stochastic, not deterministic, of course.

Then you compare that $1000 iPhone to a $45 Android ...

Your hyperbola attempts aside, I have seen a study which found that the average iPhone valuation is ~$400, and Android just under $300.

Since the Apple price is less than their cheapest phone, I suspect that
they may be pro-rating the products based on average age, which since
iPhones are replaced less frequently could be effectively comparing the residual value of a ~2.5 year old iPhone to a ~1.5 year old Android..?

and declare that not
only are the people who pay $1000 for something that can't even do what the $45 Android can do, but that it lasts longer (you claim) by virtue only of the fact that it costs $1000 while any old Android that costs $45 (you
claim) doesn't last longer - even as the build quality is vastly greater.

Incorrect: what I posited was that perhaps *a* reason why iPhone owners
keep them for long is because Apple build quality may be higher, for the simple reason that they choose to not sell cheap junk phones. We know
that this isn't the case for Android.

WTF?
Have you no argument at all that you have to make such absurd claims?

They're not absurd claims: it is merely stating known facts.
And I've been deliberate to note what are *possible* reasons.

You're desperate to claim a $1000 iPhone has more functionality than a $45 Android when you can't even list any functionality that it supposedly has.

No, I've not stated any position about 'functionality'.

Why would someone pay $1000 for an iPhone that can't do what any $45
Android can? That's NOT an intelligent person's kind of decision.

Why do rich people pay $8,000 for a Hermes purse? Does a Hermes have
10x the 'functionality' of an $800 purse? /s

What you're really saying is people who pay $100 for iPhones are stupid
since they could have paid $45 for an Android & gotten more functionality.

Just as I'd noted to Joel, you also need Sam Vime's theory of boots.

People who buy a Rolex aren't smarter than people who buy a Timex you know.

Depends on how one defines "smarter": on an income basis comparison,
the Rolex buyers are certainly on average more affluent. We know that
higher income correlates to higher educational achievement. We also
know that educational achievement similarly correlates to higher IQ.

What I was noting was that the higher income carries the connotation of
a greater ability for them to change [here, timepieces] more frequently
with lower consequences...but for this analogy to iPhones, they actually
don't actually change more frequently, but do so less frequently: why?

The inference is that there's some aspect of higher product quality
which decreases their motivation for its rate of replacement being as
high as it is for Androids.


-hh


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

People who buy a Rolex aren't smarter than people who buy a Timex you know.

Just like a Rolex or a Mercedes, an iPhone is a status symbol for some
people. It means they have achieved a certain wealth level where they have
more disposable income and can purchase overpriced things. They don’t care that the value is not there, it just makes them look better in the yes of
their peers.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-08-25 18:41:01 +0000, -hh said:

On 8/24/25 21:26, Marion wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 17:14:04 -0400, -hh wrote :

Because the greater overall wealth of iPhone customers alone would
suggest they have a greater ability for a higher turnover rate, this
implies some other, more significant factor is in play. There's a lot
of cheap Androids, so the longer iPhone life could be due to Apple's
market decision to not sell cheap low build quality phones which are
more prone to breaking/dying more quickly.

Sometimes you make sense.
Sometimes you make no sense.

Your argument is absurd.

Nope, far from it. Sorry that it went over your head.

First off, you're cherry picking since the vast majority of phones out
there are NOT iPhones, so you're ignoring the vast majority of owners.

Of course I am, because I'm looking at just the domestic market, which
is where these replacement & income metrics were from. That there's a billion 3rd world customers too just isn't relevant.

Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is
rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and
numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!). Plus
there are a ton of el cheapo Android phones, many of which are simply
utter crap using old tech to achieve lower pricing.

If you compare actual makers, Apple has around 27.5% of the global
market, while their closest rival Samsung has 21.5% ... but even that
is misleading because Samsung do make el cheapo models (and foldable
models) while Apple only makes high-mid to higher end models.

You may as well compare Toyota to Ferrari ... completely different
markets and buyers.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 19:17:22 -0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote :

People who buy a Rolex aren't smarter than people who buy a Timex you know. >>

Just like a Rolex or a Mercedes, an iPhone is a status symbol for some people. It means they have achieved a certain wealth level where they have more disposable income and can purchase overpriced things. They don't care that the value is not there, it just makes them look better in the yes of their peers.

Hi badgolferman,

You're so right. That's why it's pleasant when you join a conversation.

I agree as I own a Rolex and German cars/bikes such as the bimmer/beemer
(and you own a Gold Wing where both of us could have bought rice burners).

A phone, a watch, a car, a loaf of bread... all are simple commodities. Marketing's job is to turn that commodity into a specialty item.

Once it's turned into a specialty item, you no longer judge it the same.
It's judged on whatever marketing can convince you is how to judge it.

Never let me ever say that Apple marketing isn't the best at that task!
Hence, I fully agree that people buy iPhones NOT for their functionality.

They buy iPhones for whatever outcome Marketing has convinced them of.
One of those outcomes, clearly, according to -hh, is "status/prestige".

Fine. I get that. They "feel" that by owning an iPhone, they're important.
Much like MAGA people do by owning a Trump Bible or a Trump MAGA shirt.

It's pleasant to discuss relevant topics with you (and even -hh, at times,
as he certainly "can" comprehend that there is nuance in our discussions).

Just as I have been asking everyone at the gas pump for decades why they
buy premium, rest assured I've asked hundreds of people over the years why
they buy iPhones, particularly when I'm standing in line and noticing it in their hands.

Almost always, in both cases, I get the marketing bullshit spit back at me. They don't actually know ANYTHING about the products that they're using.

That's the problem as I see it.
Marketing has convinced them that whatever Marketing tells them, is true.

Lies that marketing feeds them abound, where I try to discuss those lies.
One of the lies is that an iPhone is functionally superior to Android.

It's not.
After something like 300 posts (or so), nobody can find more than one
useful thing that the iPhone does that Android doesn't do (i.e., port 445).
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 10:00:08 +1200, Your Name wrote :

Because the greater overall wealth of iPhone customers alone would
suggest they have a greater ability for a higher turnover rate, this
implies some other, more significant factor is in play. There's a lot >>>> of cheap Androids, so the longer iPhone life could be due to Apple's
market decision to not sell cheap low build quality phones which are
more prone to breaking/dying more quickly.

Sometimes you make sense.
Sometimes you make no sense.

Your argument is absurd.

Nope, far from it. Sorry that it went over your head.

First off, you're cherry picking since the vast majority of phones out
there are NOT iPhones, so you're ignoring the vast majority of owners.

Of course I am, because I'm looking at just the domestic market, which
is where these replacement & income metrics were from. That there's a
billion 3rd world customers too just isn't relevant.

Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is
rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and
numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!). Plus
there are a ton of el cheapo Android phones, many of which are simply
utter crap using old tech to achieve lower pricing.

If you compare actual makers, Apple has around 27.5% of the global
market, while their closest rival Samsung has 21.5% ... but even that
is misleading because Samsung do make el cheapo models (and foldable
models) while Apple only makes high-mid to higher end models.

You may as well compare Toyota to Ferrari ... completely different
markets and buyers.

I agree with badgolferman, -hh & Your Name that people don't buy an iPhone
in general based on a feeling of superior functionality over Android.v

If they did, they would be deluded.

A phone, a watch, a car, a loaf of bread... all are simple commodities. Marketing's job is to turn that commodity into a specialty item.

Virginia Slims are cigarettes for liberated women.
Everyone knows that.

Once it's turned into a specialty item, you no longer judge it the same.
It's judged on whatever marketing can convince you is how to judge it.

Never let me ever say that Apple marketing isn't the best at that task!
Hence, I fully agree that people buy iPhones NOT for their functionality.

They buy iPhones for whatever outcome Marketing has convinced them of.
One of those outcomes, clearly, according to -hh, is "status/prestige".

Fine. I get that. They "feel" that by owning an iPhone, they're important.
Much like MAGA people do by owning a Trump Bible or a Trump MAGA shirt.

I get it. I don't disagree.
What I'd like though, is for people here to be able to understand that.

That's all.
Understand that nobody buys an iPhone over Android for functionality.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-08-25 15:17, badgolferman wrote:

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

People who buy a Rolex aren't smarter than people who buy a Timex you know. >>

Just like a Rolex or a Mercedes, an iPhone is a status symbol for some people. It means they have achieved a certain wealth level where they have more disposable income and can purchase overpriced things. They don’t care that the value is not there, it just makes them look better in the yes of their peers.

So what?

That might fly for a brief while, but when the continue to buy iPhones,
it definitely suggests that they WORK well for the purchaser.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 8/25/25 15:17, badgolferman wrote:

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

People who buy a Rolex aren't smarter than people who buy a Timex you know. >>

Just like a Rolex or a Mercedes, an iPhone is a status symbol for some people.

And likewise, some buyers of Android (or Tesla/etc) are choosing these
for some aspect of 'status' too.

However, that some segment buys for reasons other than strictly utility shouldn't be a surprise, nor condemn that choice: it is the essence of
why the entire field of product marketing exists.

And goods which fake their desirability/status don't last long, so that
is straightforward to eliminate here from consideration.

But you & Marion are both missing the point that was being raised here,
which is that higher affluence empowers greater fiscal frivolity, which
if this really was all about status/image as you're suggesting, these
owners would be promptly flipping to each new iPhone model ... but the ownership data shows that not only do they not, but they actually tend
to own their iPhones for longer than Android buyers own their Androids.

The ramifications here have a couple of likely possibilities:

a) Apple makes better hardware which allows it to last longer;

b) The hardware build is ~same, but Apple customers own longer because
they're *less* vain about "shiny new thing" status symbols than Android.

YMMV, but neither of these are positive things for Android.

It means they have achieved a certain wealth level where they have
more disposable income and can purchase overpriced things. They don’t care that the value is not there, it just makes them look better in the yes of their peers.

Nope. The things which other consumers choose to assign value to in
their product selections is not something that you personally get to approve/condemn, just because your personal opinion for what constitutes 'value' differs.

If you want to make a credible argument that something is an overpriced
piece of junk, you need to remove your personal bias from the argument
that you make and transparently show objective metrics with actual data.

Not this emotional hand-waiving you're doing, 'Karen'.


-hh
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

On 2025-08-25 18:41:01 +0000, -hh said:

On 8/24/25 21:26, Marion wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 17:14:04 -0400, -hh wrote :

Because the greater overall wealth of iPhone customers alone would
suggest they have a greater ability for a higher turnover rate, this
implies some other, more significant factor is in play. There's a lot >>>> of cheap Androids, so the longer iPhone life could be due to Apple's
market decision to not sell cheap low build quality phones which are
more prone to breaking/dying more quickly.

Sometimes you make sense.
Sometimes you make no sense.

Your argument is absurd.

Nope, far from it. Sorry that it went over your head.

First off, you're cherry picking since the vast majority of phones out
there are NOT iPhones, so you're ignoring the vast majority of owners.

Of course I am, because I'm looking at just the domestic market, which
is where these replacement & income metrics were from. That there's a
billion 3rd world customers too just isn't relevant.

Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is
rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and
numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!).

Agreed. Doesn't stop Arlen claiming it's a monolith and only the good bits count, tho . Crap android phones don't exist.

Plus

there are a ton of el cheapo Android phones, many of which are simply
utter crap using old tech to achieve lower pricing.

If you compare actual makers, Apple has around 27.5% of the global
market, while their closest rival Samsung has 21.5% ... but even that
is misleading because Samsung do make el cheapo models (and foldable
models) while Apple only makes high-mid to higher end models.

You may as well compare Toyota to Ferrari ... completely different
markets and buyers.

Not sure I agree with that. Top end androids definitely target the same
market as Apple.



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-08-26 13:23:41 +0000, -hh said:

On 8/25/25 15:17, badgolferman wrote:

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

People who buy a Rolex aren't smarter than people who buy a Timex you know. >>>

Just like a Rolex or a Mercedes, an iPhone is a status symbol for some
people.

And likewise, some buyers of Android (or Tesla/etc) are choosing these
for some aspect of 'status' too.

However, that some segment buys for reasons other than strictly utility shouldn't be a surprise, nor condemn that choice: it is the essence of
why the entire field of product marketing exists.

And goods which fake their desirability/status don't last long, so that
is straightforward to eliminate here from consideration.

But you & Marion are both missing the point that was being raised here, which is that higher affluence empowers greater fiscal frivolity, which
if this really was all about status/image as you're suggesting, these
owners would be promptly flipping to each new iPhone model ... but the ownership data shows that not only do they not, but they actually tend
to own their iPhones for longer than Android buyers own their Androids.

The ramifications here have a couple of likely possibilities:

a) Apple makes better hardware which allows it to last longer;

b) The hardware build is ~same, but Apple customers own longer because they're *less* vain about "shiny new thing" status symbols than Android.

YMMV, but neither of these are positive things for Android.

c) Most Android models are el cheapo garbage that doesn't last long
(either physically breaking or using old tech that can't handle newer
versions of Android).

d) Android users are clumsy and keep dropping their phones down the
toilet, leaving it on the car roof, etc., so have to buy a replacement.

e) Being el cheapo, criminals, tourists, etc. keep buying Android
phones as "burner" phones that get disposed of quickly and replaced.

f) ...

It means they have achieved a certain wealth level where they have
more disposable income and can purchase overpriced things. They don’t care >> that the value is not there, it just makes them look better in the yes of
their peers.

Nope. The things which other consumers choose to assign value to in
their product selections is not something that you personally get to approve/condemn, just because your personal opinion for what
constitutes 'value' differs.

If you want to make a credible argument that something is an overpriced piece of junk, you need to remove your personal bias from the argument
that you make and transparently show objective metrics with actual data.

Not this emotional hand-waiving you're doing, 'Karen'.

-hh

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 16:26:49 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is
rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and
numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!).

Agreed. Doesn't stop Arlen claiming it's a monolith and only the good bits count, tho . Crap android phones don't exist.

Chris,

You don't even know what a "monolith" is, so stop it with that garbage.
Up until iOS 16's use of RSRs, Apple shipped iOS updates as a monolith.

It's only with iOS 16 RSRs that Apple joined the modern world of patches.
The fact you don't know this proves my point you know nothing about iOS.

Plus
there are a ton of el cheapo Android phones, many of which are simply
utter crap using old tech to achieve lower pricing.

Nobody doubts there is much more choice in the Android ecosystem.
Yet, my $30 phone has more functionality than any iPhone ever sold.

If an Apple moron says it didn't cost me $30, let them show us where they
saw more money coming out of my wallet since the reason they say that is
they were told they are stupid their whole lives and they are.

Tremendously low-IQ people like all the Apple trolls are can't fathom that
the phone really only cost about $30 (which was simply the sales tax).

There are no other charges (whether or not I got the phone - my bill is the same after the phone as it was before the phone - as the phone was free).

The only thing I had to pay for was the sales tax on the imputed value.
If they claim there is a "hidden charge" that only I pay, then that claim deserves them backing up where I pay a charge that nobody else is paying.

But they can't.
This is how I know that their IQ is so incredibly low as to be shocking.

If you compare actual makers, Apple has around 27.5% of the global
market, while their closest rival Samsung has 21.5% ... but even that
is misleading because Samsung do make el cheapo models (and foldable
models) while Apple only makes high-mid to higher end models.

You may as well compare Toyota to Ferrari ... completely different
markets and buyers.

Not sure I agree with that. Top end androids definitely target the same market as Apple.

I will agree with anyone, no matter who they are or what they've said in
the past, if theymake a logically defensible sensible statement such as
that which Chris just did.

While every Android is more functional than any iPhone ever sold, Android
OEMs make a range of choices, many of which copy the iPhone model.

Those copycat Android-iPhones are typically unusually high priced for
Android devices, and they typically lack even the most basic industry
standard hardware, just like the iPhone does.

What they have over iOS is what even a $30 Android has over iOS, which is
the functionality on Android is vastly superior to iOS (with one exception
- which is the use of port 445 - which is the one thing iOS does that
Android can't do).

It's interesting that the critically revealing functionality crossover
point between iOS and Android happens at one, and from there, even a $30 Android has vastly more functionality than any iPhone ever sold.

When you understand that, then we can begin to teach you why it is so.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 16:26:49 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is
rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and
numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!).

Agreed. Doesn't stop Arlen claiming it's a monolith and only the good bits >> count, tho . Crap android phones don't exist.

Chris,

You don't even know what a "monolith" is, so stop it with that garbage.
Up until iOS 16's use of RSRs, Apple shipped iOS updates as a monolith.

Clearly your grasp of English is lacking...

It's only with iOS 16 RSRs that Apple joined the modern world of patches.
The fact you don't know this proves my point you know nothing about iOS.

... just like your grasp of iOS.

Plus
there are a ton of el cheapo Android phones, many of which are simply
utter crap using old tech to achieve lower pricing.

Nobody doubts there is much more choice in the Android ecosystem.
Yet, my $30 phone has more functionality than any iPhone ever sold.

If an Apple moron says it didn't cost me $30, let them show us where they
saw more money coming out of my wallet since the reason they say that is
they were told they are stupid their whole lives and they are.

You only got that (one-off) deal because you had a contract with the
provider. No-one could have got that deal walking into a shop. How much do
you pay for your contract? Currently, I pay £7 pm.

You like to compare it to $1000 (sic) iphones when you conveniently omit
that you also got a special deal for your iphones.

It's also been proven that A-range Galaxy models are "crap" based on your
own definition.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-08-26 20:48, Marion wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 16:26:49 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is
rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and
numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!).

Agreed. Doesn't stop Arlen claiming it's a monolith and only the good bits >> count, tho . Crap android phones don't exist.

Chris,

You don't even know what a "monolith" is, so stop it with that garbage.
Up until iOS 16's use of RSRs, Apple shipped iOS updates as a monolith.

Simply false.

Remember, a single counter example proves you wrong:

iOS 15.2.1 weighed in at 870MB.

A lot, but a full install of iOS 15 is 2.2GB.

Ergo, the 15.2.1 update was not monolithic.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Aug 27, 2025 at 3:38:45 PM EDT, "Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

On 2025-08-26 20:48, Marion wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 16:26:49 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is
rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and
numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!).

Agreed. Doesn't stop Arlen claiming it's a monolith and only the good bits >>> count, tho . Crap android phones don't exist.

Chris,

You don't even know what a "monolith" is, so stop it with that garbage.
Up until iOS 16's use of RSRs, Apple shipped iOS updates as a monolith.

Simply false.

Remember, a single counter example proves you wrong:

iOS 15.2.1 weighed in at 870MB.

A lot, but a full install of iOS 15 is 2.2GB.

Ergo, the 15.2.1 update was not monolithic.

iOS has NEVER been updated using the moronic method that Arlen claims. Which is, "Even if only a single line of code was changed, Apple ships the entire
iOS out to every iPhone/iPad".

If Arlen the lying troll had even a SINGLE iPhone/iPad, he would know this because THE SIZE OF THE UPDATE YOU ARE GETTING IS SHOWN EVERY TIME YOU UPDATE.
And every update is a different size. How is that possible Arlen?

The most recent 18.6.2 update was around 750 MB. Is that the ENTIRE iOS
Arlen? Why are full version updates so much larger Arlen? Why are you such a lying dipshit Arlen?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 16:43:17 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

If an Apple moron says it didn't cost me $30, let them show us where they
saw more money coming out of my wallet since the reason they say that is
they were told they are stupid their whole lives and they are.

You only got that (one-off) deal because you had a contract with the provider. No-one could have got that deal walking into a shop. How much do you pay for your contract? Currently, I pay �7 pm.

What's sad is I can tell Apple trolls something a thousand times yet it
never once sinks into your brain - which is how I know you have a low IQ.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees

You couldn't pass a single college exam, Chris, missing the same fact just once, let alone the thousand times I've posted those exact same images.

I own six SIM carded devices, with the bill being $100/month + fees of
about $20 nowadays (it used to be about $16 in those fees in April 2021).

Note the Apple trolls swear there is a hidden cost that only I pay for
getting those free phones even though every single person on postpaid
T-Mobile USA at that time was offered the exact same plan.

Nobody's bill changed by a cent (other than the sales tax of $30 for California) whether or not they took advantage of T-Mobile's offer.

That Apple trolls claim the cost is greater than it was for me, yet they
can't name what that cost is or where it came from, proves their low IQ.

They can't believe something as simple as those terms and conditions.

You like to compare it to $1000 (sic) iphones when you conveniently omit
that you also got a special deal for your iphones.

I wonder if you realize that the MSRP is less than $300 for my phone Chris. That means I'm comparing a $300 phone to that $1000 iPhone you speak of.

That $300 phone has basic functionality that doesn't even exist on iPhones.

It's also been proven that A-range Galaxy models are "crap" based on your
own definition.

Yet that $300 phone runs more software functionalities than any iPhone can.

BTW, T-Mobile tried to get everyone who opted into that plan to opt out of
it after a couple of years, as we discussed at length on this very ng.
<https://i.postimg.cc/j2WMcwfY/tmobileoptout.jpg>

As I recall, both badgolferman and I talked them out of changing our grandfathered plans, but I'm not sure if badgolferman followed through.

Did he?
Dunno.

I told them to stop that crap.
And they did.

What I find indicative of low intelligence is you Apple trolls hate that
you can't figure out terms and conditions so you feel that aliens must be manipulating my bill somehow unbeknownst to me in a way hidden to all.

When you say that crap, it's further proof that Apple trolls are low IQ.
If there was an additional cost to me - wouldn't you think I would know it.

Just like if there was something that iOS could do that Android can't do, wouldn't you think someone (anyone!) on this newsgroup would know it?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 21:16:21 +0000, Tyrone wrote :

iOS has NEVER been updated using the moronic method that Arlen claims. Which is, "Even if only a single line of code was changed, Apple ships the entire iOS out to every iPhone/iPad".

If Arlen the lying troll had even a SINGLE iPhone/iPad, he would know this because THE SIZE OF THE UPDATE YOU ARE GETTING IS SHOWN EVERY TIME YOU UPDATE.
And every update is a different size. How is that possible Arlen?

The most recent 18.6.2 update was around 750 MB. Is that the ENTIRE iOS Arlen? Why are full version updates so much larger Arlen? Why are you such a lying dipshit Arlen?

You Apple trolls don't have a clue how iOS worked back then.
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>

Every update was different for each device but there was only one
monolithic operating system which had to be built to do that.
<https://support.apple.com/en-ph/guide/security/sec87fc038c2/web>

The first Rapid Security Response updates for iOS 16.4.1, iPadOS 16.4.1 &
macOS 13.3.1 (Ventura) started rolling out on May 1, 2023.
<https://duo.com/decipher/apple-releases-fix-for-actively-exploited-webkit-bug>

Not only are you Apple trolls so ignorant of iOS that you don't know that,
but it's one of the main reasons iOS has 1-1/2 times the known exploits.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

The fact that Apple has never tested huge chunks of its iOS code also
belies the fact that Apple's lack of modern update wasn't the only reason.
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html>

What makes things worse is Apple's promised written support is the worst in
the industry when you compare with two of the main Android OEM players.
*Apple finally confirms how long it will support iPhones*
*and it's less than Samsung and Google*
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

It doesn't help that only Apple betrays the customer by never fully
supporting anything other than a single release stream in its history.
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>

It's no longer shocking you Apple trolls know nothing about Apple product.
Once you finally understand these facts, only then can I even begin to
teach you why Apple's operating systems are the least secure in the world.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 08:40:01 +1200, Your Name wrote :

YMMV, but neither of these are positive things for Android.

c) Most Android models are el cheapo garbage that doesn't last long
(either physically breaking or using old tech that can't handle newer versions of Android).

d) Android users are clumsy and keep dropping their phones down the
toilet, leaving it on the car roof, etc., so have to buy a replacement.

e) Being el cheapo, criminals, tourists, etc. keep buying Android
phones as "burner" phones that get disposed of quickly and replaced.

WTF?

Does Your Name actually believe what he just wrote?
What he wrote makes him sound like an ignorant low-IQ uneducated kook.

Besides, I wonder if he knows both Google & Samsung support Android on more operating system versions & for years longer than does Apple on iPhones.

*Apple finally confirms how long it will support iPhones*
*and it's less than Samsung and Google* <https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/> --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 16:43:17 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

If an Apple moron says it didn't cost me $30, let them show us where they >>> saw more money coming out of my wallet since the reason they say that is >>> they were told they are stupid their whole lives and they are.

You only got that (one-off) deal because you had a contract with the
provider. No-one could have got that deal walking into a shop. How much do >> you pay for your contract? Currently, I pay ｣7 pm.

What's sad is I can tell Apple trolls something a thousand times yet it
never once sinks into your brain - which is how I know you have a low IQ.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract

Thanks for confirming that your $30 phone should be compared to a $50
iphone, not as you always try claim a $1000 one. Not so hard was it?

<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees

You couldn't pass a single college exam, Chris,

Feeling fragile are you? Your attempts at insults speak more about you than anything else.

missing the same fact just
once, let alone the thousand times I've posted those exact same images.

I own six SIM carded devices, with the bill being $100/month + fees of
about $20 nowadays (it used to be about $16 in those fees in April 2021).

Thanks for sharing. So $1440 a year (and every year) to get your "cheap" phones.

You like to compare it to $1000 (sic) iphones when you conveniently omit
that you also got a special deal for your iphones.

I wonder if you realize that the MSRP is less than $300 for my phone Chris. That means I'm comparing a $300 phone to that $1000 iPhone you speak of.

Given your phone is a crap A range, you should compare to the entry level iphone which is about $500.

$1000 gets you an iphone Pro which is completely different market to the A range galaxies.

Be honest in comparing like for like. $30 vs $1000 is simply a lie.

That $300 phone has basic functionality that doesn't even exist on iPhones.

False.

It's also been proven that A-range Galaxy models are "crap" based on your
own definition.

Yet that $300 phone runs more software functionalities than any iPhone can.

Am glad you agree that galaxy A range mobiles are "crap".

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-08-27 23:42, Marion wrote:

On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 08:40:01 +1200, Your Name wrote :

YMMV, but neither of these are positive things for Android.

c) Most Android models are el cheapo garbage that doesn't last long
(either physically breaking or using old tech that can't handle newer
versions of Android).

d) Android users are clumsy and keep dropping their phones down the
toilet, leaving it on the car roof, etc., so have to buy a replacement.

e) Being el cheapo, criminals, tourists, etc. keep buying Android
phones as "burner" phones that get disposed of quickly and replaced.

WTF?

Does Your Name actually believe what he just wrote?
What he wrote makes him sound like an ignorant low-IQ uneducated kook.

Besides, I wonder if he knows both Google & Samsung support Android on more operating system versions & for years longer than does Apple on iPhones.

*Apple finally confirms how long it will support iPhones*
*and it's less than Samsung and Google* <https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

Did you not read this:

"Apple hasn't offered update promises in the past, but the company has
been really good at supporting its devices for long periods. For
example, the iPhone XR is the oldest phone to get iOS 18, and that phone
was released in 2018. This is a seven-year-old product."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-08-27 23:42, Marion wrote:

On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 08:40:01 +1200, Your Name wrote :

YMMV, but neither of these are positive things for Android.

c) Most Android models are el cheapo garbage that doesn't last long
(either physically breaking or using old tech that can't handle newer
versions of Android).

d) Android users are clumsy and keep dropping their phones down the
toilet, leaving it on the car roof, etc., so have to buy a replacement.

e) Being el cheapo, criminals, tourists, etc. keep buying Android
phones as "burner" phones that get disposed of quickly and replaced.

WTF?

Does Your Name actually believe what he just wrote?
What he wrote makes him sound like an ignorant low-IQ uneducated kook.

Besides, I wonder if he knows both Google & Samsung support Android on more operating system versions & for years longer than does Apple on iPhones.

*Apple finally confirms how long it will support iPhones*
*and it's less than Samsung and Google* <https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

And this:

“minimum of five years from the first supply date.”

What Apple wrote was to put themselves in official compliance with a new
UK REGULATION, and doesn't in any way, shape or form constitute proof
that Apple will support it for ONLY 5 years.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Thu, 28 Aug 2025 19:23:29 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

What's sad is I can tell Apple trolls something a thousand times yet it
never once sinks into your brain - which is how I know you have a low IQ.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract

Thanks for confirming that your $30 phone should be compared to a $50
iphone, not as you always try claim a $1000 one. Not so hard was it?

To the point of this thread, that phone T-Mobile gave me in April of 2021 listed for an MSRP of less than $300 and at that time, it had more functionality than any iPhone ever sold. And it still does even now.

If you could find something (anything!) that your iPhone can do that my
$300 MSRP Android can't do, now is the time for you to let us all know.

But stop saying only an iPhone can display the Apple logo.
That's not functionality. That's just branding.

<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android >> <https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees >>
You couldn't pass a single college exam, Chris,

Feeling fragile are you? Your attempts at insults speak more about you than anything else.

Chris,
You are the one who asks the same question a thousand times.
How many more thousands of times must I post those images?

What's always telling about you Apple trolls is you can't process facts.
You claim aliens must be manipulating my bills hiding the secret costs.

missing the same fact just
once, let alone the thousand times I've posted those exact same images.

I own six SIM carded devices, with the bill being $100/month + fees of
about $20 nowadays (it used to be about $16 in those fees in April 2021).

Thanks for sharing. So $1440 a year (and every year) to get your "cheap" phones.

Huh? Are you serious? WTF?

You Apple trolls jump to the first lame excuse you can find for everything.
You don't even think first.

Let me tell you something very important about how mobile phones work.

The service has nothing to do with the phone, Chris.
T-Mobile doesn't make me use their phones.

I can use any (unlocked) phone I want to use.
I need the service anyway.

The fact you claim that a phone works without service is patently absurd. Nobody is that stupid, Chris.

Not even you.
It's clear you're *desperate* to find an excuse to defend Apple.

But you claiming that phones work without service is simply absurd, Chris.

You like to compare it to $1000 (sic) iphones when you conveniently omit >>> that you also got a special deal for your iphones.

I wonder if you realize that the MSRP is less than $300 for my phone Chris. >> That means I'm comparing a $300 phone to that $1000 iPhone you speak of.

Given your phone is a crap A range, you should compare to the entry level iphone which is about $500.

Why? My whole point is EVERY ANDROID is more powerful than ANY iPhone.
My arguments are consistent. Sensible. Logical. Factual.

$1000 gets you an iphone Pro which is completely different market to the A range galaxies.

Be honest in comparing like for like. $30 vs $1000 is simply a lie.

The whole point is that every Android is more powerful than any iPhone.

That $300 phone has basic functionality that doesn't even exist on iPhones.

False.

Well then, prove me wrong, Chris.

Name another functionality (other than port 445) that an iPhone can do that
is useful that I can't do on my Android phone. Just name it please.

It's also been proven that A-range Galaxy models are "crap" based on your >>> own definition.

Yet that $300 phone runs more software functionalities than any iPhone can.

Am glad you agree that galaxy A range mobiles are "crap".

The point is every Android phone is more functionality than any iPhone.
If that wasn't true, you'd be able to name something the iPhone does that
is useful that Android phones cannot do. And yet, you can't do that.

The proof is in your own answer.
You actually know the answer.

You hate the answer. But you know the answer.
You won't admit it.
But you know it.

Once you accept the answer, only then can I begin to teach you why.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 8/27/25 23:42, Marion wrote:

On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 08:40:01 +1200, Your Name wrote :

YMMV, but neither of these are positive things for Android.

c) Most Android models are el cheapo garbage that doesn't last long
(either physically breaking or using old tech that can't handle newer
versions of Android).

d) Android users are clumsy and keep dropping their phones down the
toilet, leaving it on the car roof, etc., so have to buy a replacement.

e) Being el cheapo, criminals, tourists, etc. keep buying Android
phones as "burner" phones that get disposed of quickly and replaced.

WTF?

Yup, those too.

Does Your Name actually believe what he just wrote?
What he wrote makes him sound like an ignorant low-IQ uneducated kook.

Not at all: there's gems of truth in these as well. But one can
nevertheless be charitable to Android users by avoiding mention of such examples which carry greater negative connotations of their users.



-hh

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On Thu, 28 Aug 2025 19:23:29 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

What's sad is I can tell Apple trolls something a thousand times yet it
never once sinks into your brain - which is how I know you have a low IQ. >>> <https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract >>

Thanks for confirming that your $30 phone should be compared to a $50
iphone, not as you always try claim a $1000 one. Not so hard was it?

To the point of this thread, that phone T-Mobile gave me in April of 2021 listed for an MSRP of less than $300 and at that time, it had more functionality than any iPhone ever sold.

It was a false statement then.

And it still does even now.

And still is a false statement now. Of the 11 features you may have
rebutted a couple, but the rest are still unique to ios. Plus you helped
add built-in OCR to the list.

Plus, your crap A32 is no longer supported by Samsung whereas *every*
iphone on sale in 2021 is still fully supported by Apple and all bar the Xr (which was discontinued in 2021) will be supported for another year. At
least.

If you could find something (anything!) that your iPhone can do that my
$300 MSRP Android can't do, now is the time for you to let us all know.

But stop saying only an iPhone can display the Apple logo.
That's not functionality. That's just branding.

<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android >>> <https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees >>>
You couldn't pass a single college exam, Chris,

Feeling fragile are you? Your attempts at insults speak more about you than >> anything else.

Chris,
You are the one who asks the same question a thousand times.

Yet I don't result to lazy insults as I'm confident in my argument. You
lost your argument ages ago and all you have are insults.

How many more thousands of times must I post those images?

I'd love to see more ancient books which "prove" your college "degrees".
lol.

Given your phone is a crap A range, you should compare to the entry level
iphone which is about $500.

Why? My whole point is EVERY ANDROID is more powerful than ANY iPhone.
My arguments are consistent. Sensible. Logical. Factual.

Dogmatic. Illogical. False.

The EU data alone shows dozens, if not hundreds, of android models are
worse than iphone.

$1000 gets you an iphone Pro which is completely different market to the A >> range galaxies.

Be honest in comparing like for like. $30 vs $1000 is simply a lie.

The whole point is that every Android is more powerful than any iPhone.

That $300 phone has basic functionality that doesn't even exist on iPhones. >>

False.

Well then, prove me wrong, Chris.

I have. You're just a liar.

Am glad you agree that galaxy A range mobiles are "crap".

The point is

You're happy with your unsupported, "crap" phone. Which is fine.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Fri, 29 Aug 2025 15:28:25 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Plus, your crap A32 is no longer supported by Samsung whereas *every*
iphone on sale in 2021 is still fully supported by Apple and all bar the Xr (which was discontinued in 2021) will be supported for another year. At least.

Every statement from you shows you do not understand how Apple updates iOS. That fact alone is how I know all of you Apple trolls own a substandard IQ.

Because this isn't complicated stuff.
It's simple.

You've been given the link a thousand times so giving you the link a
thousand more times won't help you understand the fact that every Android
phone on or above Android 10 is updated forever with Google's hotfixes.

Android 10 released on September 3, 2019.

The fact is the iPhone XS, XS Max & XR, which were current at that time,
are not capable of installing the current iOS release, which is iOS 26.

Q: So which phones are still receiving monthly bugfix hotfix updates?
A: ?

Hint: Once you figure that fact out, I can then begin to teach you why.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On Fri, 29 Aug 2025 15:28:25 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Plus, your crap A32 is no longer supported by Samsung whereas *every*
iphone on sale in 2021 is still fully supported by Apple and all bar the Xr >> (which was discontinued in 2021) will be supported for another year. At
least.

Every statement from you shows you do not understand how Apple updates iOS. That fact alone is how I know all of you Apple trolls own a substandard IQ.

Because this isn't complicated stuff.
It's simple.

You've been given the link a thousand times so giving you the link a
thousand more times won't help you understand the fact that every Android phone on or above Android 10 is updated forever with Google's hotfixes.

Patching a few random services is not full support.

If "forever" were true, why do Samsung and Google claim their phones are
only supported for seven years?

Android 10 released on September 3, 2019.

The fact is the iPhone XS, XS Max & XR, which were current at that time,
are not capable of installing the current iOS release, which is iOS 26.

lol False. The current version is iOS 18 which does support those models.
iOS 26 is not out until next month.

For someone who says he can teach us everything about ios, that's a pretty basic failure.

That means those phones have been fully supported by Apple since 2018 (i.e.
7 years). Tell me which Samsung, Galaxy or other brands that are still
fully supporting phones sold in 2018.




--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 16:59:25 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

You've been given the link a thousand times so giving you the link a
thousand more times won't help you understand the fact that every Android
phone on or above Android 10 is updated forever with Google's hotfixes.

Patching a few random services is not full support.

Heh heh heh... every single Android 10 and newer is patched every month.
How many iPhones of that era are patched every month, Chris.

C'mon. Answer that question.
HINT: None.

If "forever" were true, why do Samsung and Google claim their phones are
only supported for seven years?

You already said why in your first sentence above, Chris.

Apple's primitive update mechanism isn't anything like a modern system,
Chris. Once you understand that fact, then I can begin to teach you why.

Android 10 released on September 3, 2019.

The fact is the iPhone XS, XS Max & XR, which were current at that time,
are not capable of installing the current iOS release, which is iOS 26.

lol False. The current version is iOS 18 which does support those models.
iOS 26 is not out until next month.

Good catch. But it's only good for a month since you must be aware that
only Apple summarily completely drops support for all but one release.

Nobody else has support that bad.
Just Apple.

For someone who says he can teach us everything about ios, that's a pretty basic failure.

That means those phones have been fully supported by Apple since 2018 (i.e.
7 years). Tell me which Samsung, Galaxy or other brands that are still
fully supporting phones sold in 2018.

Apple promises only five years of full support in writing, Chris.
Google and Samsung promise seven.

In addition, Android 10 and above devices are updated monthly, forever.
Once you begin to understand that fact, I can begin to teach you why.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On 2025-08-31 14:32, Marion wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 16:59:25 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

You've been given the link a thousand times so giving you the link a
thousand more times won't help you understand the fact that every Android >>> phone on or above Android 10 is updated forever with Google's hotfixes.

Patching a few random services is not full support.

Heh heh heh... every single Android 10 and newer is patched every month.
How many iPhones of that era are patched every month, Chris.

Or the headline you'd write if it was iOS:

"iOS needs patches every month because it has so many bugs!"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 16:59:25 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

You've been given the link a thousand times so giving you the link a
thousand more times won't help you understand the fact that every Android >>> phone on or above Android 10 is updated forever with Google's hotfixes.

Patching a few random services is not full support.

Heh heh heh... every single Android 10 and newer is patched every month.

Like I said a patch of random services is not proper or full support.

How many iPhones of that era are patched every month, Chris.

C'mon. Answer that question.
HINT: None.

Every iphone since 2018 is still fully supported. How many Samsungs and
Googles have been deprecated since 2018?

C'mon answer the question.
HINT: I know you won't out of embarrassment.

If "forever" were true, why do Samsung and Google claim their phones are
only supported for seven years?

You already said

Just answer the question. Which you won't.

Android 10 released on September 3, 2019.

The fact is the iPhone XS, XS Max & XR, which were current at that time, >>> are not capable of installing the current iOS release, which is iOS 26.

lol False. The current version is iOS 18 which does support those models.
iOS 26 is not out until next month.

Good catch. But it's only good for a month since you must be aware that
only Apple summarily completely drops support for all but one release.

Yet has supported phones longer than anyone else for at least a decade.

Nobody else has support that bad.
Just Apple.

Calling you clueless is being kind.

For someone who says he can teach us everything about ios, that's a pretty >> basic failure.

That means those phones have been fully supported by Apple since 2018 (i.e. >> 7 years). Tell me which Samsung, Galaxy or other brands that are still
fully supporting phones sold in 2018.

Apple promises only five years of full support in writing, Chris.

So what? That's just a minimum. Real world evidence is proof of much better support.

Apple has already supported several models - the 6s, 6s Plus, XR, XS, XS
Max and probably others - for seven years. The rest in the last decade
have been five or six years. No other support is better.

Google and Samsung promise seven.

Only for premium models. And they have no evidence of supporting anything longer than three or four years.

A promise is worthless until it is backed up. We won't know what seven
years of support looks like with Samsung for another FIVE YEARS. Yet,
today, we know exactly what seven years of support from Apple looks like: reliably boring.



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 22:03:40 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Heh heh heh... every single Android 10 and newer is patched every month.

Like I said a patch of random services is not proper or full support.

Those are not "random services"; they're core critical Android packages.
Like I said, you don't understand how either iOS or Android is updated.

Apple has the worst hotfix support in the mobile phone industry, Chris.
They simply have the best marketing.

How many iPhones of that era are patched every month, Chris.

C'mon. Answer that question.
HINT: None.

Every iphone since 2018 is still fully supported. How many Samsungs and Googles have been deprecated since 2018?

Every Android 10 and above that is on the Internet is updated monthly.
Forever.

C'mon answer the question.
HINT: I know you won't out of embarrassment.

I just did.

If "forever" were true, why do Samsung and Google claim their phones are >>> only supported for seven years?

You already said

Just answer the question. Which you won't.

Every statement from you shows your lack of understanding of how Android updates, since it's updated by Google over the Internet very single month.

You don't even know the difference between Google & Samsung, Chris.
Every statement from you proves that you don't know how Android updates.

Android 10 released on September 3, 2019.

The fact is the iPhone XS, XS Max & XR, which were current at that time, >>>> are not capable of installing the current iOS release, which is iOS 26. >>>

lol False. The current version is iOS 18 which does support those models. >>> iOS 26 is not out until next month.

Good catch. But it's only good for a month since you must be aware that
only Apple summarily completely drops support for all but one release.

Yet has supported phones longer than anyone else for at least a decade.

Apple's support is the worst in the industry, Chris. By far.

Apple didn't even have a hotfix mechanism until iOS 16 for God's sake.
That you are blissfully unaware of how iOS is updated is clear.

Why do you think iOS has 1-1/2 times the number of known exploits, Chris?
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

Nobody else has support that bad.
Just Apple.

Calling you clueless is being kind.

Heh heh heh... and yet I know how both iOS and Android update.
You do not.

Apple promises only five years of full support in writing, Chris.

So what? That's just a minimum. Real world evidence is proof of much better support.

Apple's support is the worst in the industry, Chris.
Name another OEM that only fully supports a single release stream.

C'mon.
Name one.

Apple has already supported several models - the 6s, 6s Plus, XR, XS, XS
Max and probably others - for seven years. The rest in the last decade
have been five or six years. No other support is better.

You don't seem to know the difference between full & random support.

Google and Samsung promise seven.

Only for premium models. And they have no evidence of supporting anything longer than three or four years.

Android is getting better every year, Chris, as Apple falls farther behind.

A promise is worthless until it is backed up. We won't know what seven
years of support looks like with Samsung for another FIVE YEARS. Yet,
today, we know exactly what seven years of support from Apple looks like: reliably boring.

Truth be told, it used to be that Apple did not have the worst bugfix
support in the industry - but the sad situation today is that it's the
worst.

Name another OEM that only fully supports a single release stream, Chris. C'mon. Name one.

Why do you think iOS is exploited 1-1/2 times more than Android, Chris?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 22:03:40 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Heh heh heh... every single Android 10 and newer is patched every month.

Like I said a patch of random services is not proper or full support.

Those are not "random services"; they're core critical Android packages.

It isn't the whole OS, is it? Fact is google had to step up for basic
support of random services because manufacturers abandoned their devices so rapidly. It needed to prop up the ecosystem.

How many iPhones of that era are patched every month, Chris.

C'mon. Answer that question.
HINT: None.

Every iphone since 2018 is still fully supported. How many Samsungs and
Googles have been deprecated since 2018?

Every Android 10 and above that is on the Internet is updated monthly. Forever.

[Factcheck: this is a lie]

https://endoflife.date/samsung-mobile
https://endoflife.date/pixel

Only Pixels 6 and newer are supported. Anything older is unsupported after
only three years.

C'mon answer the question.
HINT: I know you won't out of embarrassment.

I just did.

False.

If "forever" were true, why do Samsung and Google claim their phones are >>>> only supported for seven years?

You already said

Just answer the question. Which you won't.

Every statement from you shows your lack of understanding of how Android updates, since it's updated by Google over the Internet very single month.

You're weaseling. Explain how seven years = forever.

Why do you think iOS has 1-1/2 times the number of known exploits, Chris?
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

That link doesn't support your assertion.

Nobody else has support that bad.
Just Apple.

Calling you clueless is being kind.

Heh heh heh... and yet I know how both iOS and Android update.
You do not.

Then explain how seven years = forever.

Apple promises only five years of full support in writing, Chris.

So what? That's just a minimum. Real world evidence is proof of much better >> support.

Apple's support is the worst in the industry, Chris.
Name another OEM that only fully supports a single release stream.

False premise.

Apple has already supported several models - the 6s, 6s Plus, XR, XS, XS
Max and probably others - for seven years. The rest in the last decade
have been five or six years. No other support is better.

You don't seem to know the difference between full & random support.

Lol. You're simply repeating my argument.

Google and Samsung promise seven.

Only for premium models. And they have no evidence of supporting anything
longer than three or four years.

Android is getting better every year

It needed to catch-up with Apple. Also the EU forced their hand. It is
still, however, a lottery depending which android phone you get.

A promise is worthless until it is backed up. We won't know what seven
years of support looks like with Samsung for another FIVE YEARS. Yet,
today, we know exactly what seven years of support from Apple looks like:
reliably boring.

Truth be told

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 15:28:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Heh heh heh... every single Android 10 and newer is patched every month. >>>

Like I said a patch of random services is not proper or full support.

Those are not "random services"; they're core critical Android packages.

It isn't the whole OS, is it? Fact is google had to step up for basic
support of random services because manufacturers abandoned their devices so rapidly. It needed to prop up the ecosystem.

Chris,
Let's have an adult conversation for once.
Let's summarize, at a high level what "kinds" of bugfix updates exist.

At one level, we can summary bugfix support in two fundamental tiers.
a. There is a tier for the operating system
(which includes kernel patches & system-level security updates)
b. And then there is a tier for the applications
(usually delivered via app store updates over the Internet)
c. In the case of both iOS & Android, those tiers are often blended
(e.g., Project Mainline delivers core OS updates over the Internet)
<https://source.android.com/docs/core/ota/modular-system>

At another level, we can summary bugfix support by the vendor & mechanism:
A. There is a carrier-operated OTA bugfix mechanism
B. There is an OEM-vendor-operated OTA/Internet bugfix mechanism
(i.e., Apple, Samsung, Xiaomi, etc. camera updates, for example)
C. There is an OS-vendor-operated bugfix mechanism (includes Qualcomm)

Then there is the almost meaningless operating system "version" update.
1. For iOS, that's iOS 18 to iOS 26
2. For Android, that's Android 14 to Android 15

Notice I said "almost meaningless" which applies more to Android than to
iOS since Apple has never fully patched any non-current major OS release.

That critical fact alone is likely a huge reason why iOS is so insecure.
Apple is the only OS vendor in the world who has support that bad, Chris.

You don't have to like that fact; but you sure as hell better know it.

How many iPhones of that era are patched every month, Chris.

C'mon. Answer that question.
HINT: None.

Every iphone since 2018 is still fully supported. How many Samsungs and
Googles have been deprecated since 2018?

Every Android 10 and above that is on the Internet is updated monthly.
Forever.

[Factcheck: this is a lie]

https://endoflife.date/samsung-mobile
https://endoflife.date/pixel

Only Pixels 6 and newer are supported. Anything older is unsupported after only three years.

Chris,
Calling every fact you can't comprehend a "lie" is what Apple trolls do.
Stop being an Apple troll. Be an adult.

The fact is that Google's Project Mainline exists.
You can hate that it exists.
You can hate that it updates monthly.
You can hate that it updates every Android 10+ on the net, forever.

But don't call every fact you can't comprehend, a lie.
That's what Apple trolls do.

Be an adult. Not an Apple troll.
An adult would read this single link _before_ calling everything a lie.
<https://source.android.com/docs/core/ota/modular-system>

Do not respond ever again on this newsgroup if you don't read that link.

C'mon answer the question.
HINT: I know you won't out of embarrassment.

I just did.

False.

Chris,
You did what Apple trolls do. You called every fact you hate, a lie.
Be an adult, Chris.

You happen to be smarter than most of the Apple trolls are, Chris.
For that I give you credit.

But if you want to be taken seriously, don't call this fact a lie:
<https://sammyguru.com/september-2025-google-play-system-updates-what-is-new/>

Don't be an Apple troll, Chris. Don't call every fact you hate, a lie.
Do not respond ever again on this newsgroup if you don't read that link.

If "forever" were true, why do Samsung and Google claim their phones are >>>>> only supported for seven years?

You already said

Just answer the question. Which you won't.

Every statement from you shows your lack of understanding of how Android
updates, since it's updated by Google over the Internet very single month.

You're weaseling. Explain how seven years = forever.

I said that the Google Project Mainline (since renamed to Google Play
System update) updates every Android 10+ phone monthly, Chris. Forever.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/686927/what-are-google-play-system-updates-on-android-and-are-they-important/>

Please never respond to anything in this ng until you read that link.

Why do you think iOS has 1-1/2 times the number of known exploits, Chris?
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

That link doesn't support your assertion.

Heh heh heh... Apple trolls deny what even Apple can't deny.
Just because you hate that iOS is the most exploited smartphone OS.

That's just a simple fact. You hate that fact.
Why? Dunno. I guess you hate that Apple lied to you about security.

Nobody else has support that bad.
Just Apple.

Calling you clueless is being kind.

Heh heh heh... and yet I know how both iOS and Android update.
You do not.

Then explain how seven years = forever.

Chris,
Do you realize you don't know anything about how Android updates?

Google and Samsung's 7 years of support refers specifically to vendor-level
OS and security updates, not broader infrastructure like Project Mainline.

Read this before you ever respond in this newsgroup about bugfixes.
<https://www.esper.io/blog/what-is-project-mainline>

I'm tired of explaining to you what everyone but you Apple trolls knows.
<https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/231421/what-is-the-support-timeline-for-google-play-system-updates-gpsu-from-project>

Apple promises only five years of full support in writing, Chris.

So what? That's just a minimum. Real world evidence is proof of much better >>> support.

Apple's support is the worst in the industry, Chris.
Name another OEM that only fully supports a single release stream.

False premise.

The fact remains that Apple is the only OS vendor that has never in its
entire history ever fully supported more than a single OS release, Chris.

That you *hate* that fact, is clear.
But why you hate that fact is unknown to me.

Is it because Apple lied to you and yet I'm telling you the truth about it?

Why doesn't Apple monthly update every iPhone on the net forever, Chris?
<https://www.androidpolice.com/project-mainline-android-14/>

Apple has already supported several models - the 6s, 6s Plus, XR, XS, XS >>> Max and probably others - for seven years. The rest in the last decade
have been five or six years. No other support is better.

You don't seem to know the difference between full & random support.

Lol. You're simply repeating my argument.

Heh heh heh... trust me, I know how iOS and Android update, Chris.
You do not.

For example, I know this, which you clearly have no desire to learn:
<https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modules-explanation/

Google and Samsung promise seven.

Only for premium models. And they have no evidence of supporting anything >>> longer than three or four years.

Android is getting better every year

It needed to catch-up with Apple. Also the EU forced their hand. It is
still, however, a lottery depending which android phone you get.

Well, to be clear, I never said Apple didn't use to have better support.
But Apple has fallen far (far!) behind in operating system support.

At this point in time, nobody doubts Apple's bugfix support is bad.
Otherwise it wouldn't be the most exploited smartphone OS out there.

Just one reason Android is far more secure than iOS is Project Mainline.
<https://www.hexnode.com/blogs/android-project-mainline-everything-you-need-to-know/>

A promise is worthless until it is backed up. We won't know what seven
years of support looks like with Samsung for another FIVE YEARS. Yet,
today, we know exactly what seven years of support from Apple looks like: >>> reliably boring.

Read these articles to learn how Android is updated, monthly, forever.
<https://www.howtogeek.com/413714/what-is-androids-project-mainline-and-when-will-my-phone-get-it/>

If you respond back saying you don't believe it, then all you're really
saying is that you brazenly deny facts because of your hatred for them.

That is why I call you an Apple troll.
You hate facts that Apple lied to you about.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 15:28:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Heh heh heh... every single Android 10 and newer is patched every month. >>>>

Like I said a patch of random services is not proper or full support.

Those are not "random services"; they're core critical Android packages.

It isn't the whole OS, is it? Fact is google had to step up for basic
support of random services because manufacturers abandoned their devices so >> rapidly. It needed to prop up the ecosystem.

Chris,
Let's have an adult conversation for once.

You're the one that always drops down to child-like behaviour ie.
name-calling, tantrums

Let's summarize, at a high level what "kinds" of bugfix updates exist.

Firstly you need to stick with common nomenclature. The are updates for
several different and overlapping reasons: fix security issues, fix bugs,
add features, change functionality.

Not everything is a bugfix.

At one level, we can summary bugfix support in two fundamental tiers.
a. There is a tier for the operating system
(which includes kernel patches & system-level security updates)
b. And then there is a tier for the applications
(usually delivered via app store updates over the Internet)
c. In the case of both iOS & Android, those tiers are often blended
(e.g., Project Mainline delivers core OS updates over the Internet)
<https://source.android.com/docs/core/ota/modular-system>

In linux/unix speak there's kernel-level, system-level and user-level.

At another level, we can summary bugfix support by the vendor & mechanism:
A. There is a carrier-operated OTA bugfix mechanism
B. There is an OEM-vendor-operated OTA/Internet bugfix mechanism
(i.e., Apple, Samsung, Xiaomi, etc. camera updates, for example)
C. There is an OS-vendor-operated bugfix mechanism (includes Qualcomm)

ok

Then there is the almost meaningless operating system "version" update.
1. For iOS, that's iOS 18 to iOS 26
2. For Android, that's Android 14 to Android 15

Notice I said "almost meaningless" which applies more to Android than to
iOS

I don't fully agree, but ok.

since Apple has never fully patched any non-current major OS release.

That critical fact alone is likely a huge reason why iOS is so insecure. Apple is the only OS vendor in the world who has support that bad, Chris.

You don't have to like that fact; but you sure as hell better know it.

You were doing so well up to now. Why the need to throw in intentionally antagonistic opinions? Stop acting like a child when initiating an "adult" conversation.

[ repetitive crap removed ]

What's clear is that project mainline supports the modular parts of Android which have been refactored to meet the requirements for the project. For Android 10 it was a relatively small number (12 modules) and has been
growing since (37 at latest count).

It's up to vendors to choose whether or not to bundle those models or use
their own equivalents.

It is also obvious that it doesn't touch vendor-specific kernel extensions.


Likewise it does not cover user-level applications like vendor UIs or third party apps (bowsers, mail clients, games, etc). Nor would you expect it to.


The Android Open Source Project (AOSP) provides the full release versions
of Android plus monthly patches for supported versions (currently 13
onwards).

Beyond project mainline the vendor whether it's Samsung, Google, Motorola, OPPO, etc is responsible for maintaining the non-modular parts of android,
the kernel (+ extensions) and their user-space specific tools or
applications.

So an owner of an android phone is dependent on both Google/Android and the vendor to ensure that their device is fully up-to-date.

Google/Android provides both AOSP (i.e. full versions) and project mainline (i.e. critical system components) updates.

Project mainline as described above only covers some parts of an Android devices' software ecosystem so if that is the only active update mechanism
then a user is still potentially vulnerable due to deprecation in vendor
and/or Android non-critical system components.

So if you have a Galaxy A12 (released June 2020) which is stuck on Android
12, you aren't getting any vendor updates (since approx 2023), no Android security updates (since March this year), and are dependent on the Android 12-specific mainline updates to a limited subset of android components
which won't include modules introduced since then (ie the bluetooth stack).
It is very unclear what is covered by which support for any given phone.

In contrast, with Apple being both the hardware vendor and OS developer everything comes through iOS updates - or rarely RSRs - and anyone with an iphone is either fully supported or not. Full support is historically 6-7
years since launch, although Apple recently committing to a minimum of 5
years which lacks ambition.

An iphone SE 2nd Gen (launched April 2020) is currently fully supported in
iOS 18 and will still be supported with iOS 26.

Admittedly there is ambiguity regarding what users can expect after full
iOS support is dropped. For example, unsupported iphone X (launched 2017) phones stuck on iOs 16 still received 12 updates since the release of iOS
17.

The other downside of the iOS model is that you don't know when or if
updates are due. With Android there's at least a bulletin published every
month even when there are no updates.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Mon, 8 Sep 2025 18:55:28 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Let's summarize, at a high level what "kinds" of bugfix updates exist.

Firstly you need to stick with common nomenclature. The are updates for several different and overlapping reasons: fix security issues, fix bugs,
add features, change functionality.

Not everything is a bugfix.

Hi Chris,

Stop acting like Alan Baker saying nobody understands anything but he.
Just stop it.

It's clear you have absolutely no idea how either iOS or Android updates.

Trust me when I say I understand how Android & iOS update software.
Yet I have no confidence that you Apple trolls understand how they do.

For years, for example, you Apple trolls claimed iOS wasn't monolithic
when, everyone who understood anything about iOS knew that it was
monolithic. You Apple trolls were confused by something as simple as a
delta which Apple used (as does Microsoft) for updating individuals.

It was only in iOS 16 that the concept of a hotfix RSR existed in iOS.
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>

Which is likely why iOS is the most exploited mobile OS in history.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

Also, you Apple trolls have never been able to understand that every OEM
vendor patches older releases every once in a while. Only on an Apple
newsgroup is a random patch to an older device considered extraordinary
proof that Apple randomly patches older devices (which every OEM does).
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222>

And, it took *years* for me to get it through your thick skulls, Chris,
that only Apple only fully supports only a single release at any one time.
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>

Even today, after years of trying to get into your thick Apple troll skulls
how Android updates, you still have no clue that Android 10+ updates
monthly every single Android phone that is on the Internet, Chris.
<https://www.esper.io/blog/what-is-project-mainline>

You think Apple has any clue how to do something like that, Chris?
From: Marion <marion@facts.com>
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Why doesn't Apple forever update iOS core modules
on every iPhone on the Internet monthly?
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2025 17:11:03 -0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <1099sr4$9sk$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

So an owner of an android phone is dependent on both Google/Android and the vendor to ensure that their device is fully up-to-date.

So is the owner of an Apple iPhone. Remember, Apple doesn't make most of
the hardware in the iPhone. So they depend on those same OEM vendors.

Project mainline as described above only covers some parts of an Android devices' software ecosystem so if that is the only active update mechanism then a user is still potentially vulnerable due to deprecation in vendor and/or Android non-critical system components.

Yup. That's why the promised written length of support being better for
Google & Samsung flagships than for iOS is critically important, Chris.

*Apple finally confirms how long it will support iPhones*
*and it's less than Samsung and Google*
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

Admittedly there is ambiguity regarding what users can expect after full
iOS support is dropped. For example, unsupported iphone X (launched 2017) phones stuck on iOs 16 still received 12 updates since the release of iOS
17.

The other downside of the iOS model is that you don't know when or if
updates are due. With Android there's at least a bulletin published every month even when there are no updates.

I have to give you credit, Chris, for looking this information up.

This is the first time, in the history of posting on this Apple newsgroup,
that anyone has shown any understanding of how the OS's update.

They update differently. In layers. With varying amount of support.
I give you credit for delving into the complexity that it inherently is.

Kudos to you.
Finally, an adult conversation is possible on this Apple newsgroup.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2