• What is "AC" with old hard disk?

    From Martin Leese@please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage on Sat Apr 25 16:15:33 2020
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

    Hi,

    I am transferring an old hard disk (20 Gbyte
    Maxtor D740X) from an old PC to a newer one
    (Dell Dimension 3000). On the old machine
    the disk was the boot drive, and so was
    configured as the Master device. On the newer
    machine it will be a Slave device.

    I have the "Jumper, CHS, and Install Guide"
    for the drive, but there are two Slave
    jumper settings. These are called "Slave"
    and "Slave with AC", but nowhere does the
    document explain was "AC" actually is.
    (There is also "Master with AC" and "Cable
    Select with AC".) What is "AC"?

    I can't Google at the moment because my old
    PC does not have the required encryption
    protocols. This is why I am trying to
    upgrade.
    --
    Regards,
    Martin Leese
    E-mail: please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID
    Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.112
  • From VanguardLH@V@nguard.LH to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage on Sat Apr 25 17:57:32 2020
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

    Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> wrote:

    Hi,

    I am transferring an old hard disk (20 Gbyte
    Maxtor D740X) from an old PC to a newer one
    (Dell Dimension 3000). On the old machine
    the disk was the boot drive, and so was
    configured as the Master device. On the newer
    machine it will be a Slave device.

    I have the "Jumper, CHS, and Install Guide"
    for the drive, but there are two Slave
    jumper settings. These are called "Slave"
    and "Slave with AC", but nowhere does the
    document explain was "AC" actually is.
    (There is also "Master with AC" and "Cable
    Select with AC".) What is "AC"?

    I can't Google at the moment because my old
    PC does not have the required encryption
    protocols. This is why I am trying to
    upgrade.

    I haven't found a Maxtor HDD that says "AC" for the 2nd set of Master,
    Slave, and Cable Select settings. I did find one that mentions a
    secondary setting of CLJ (Cylinder Limit Jumper) which was to accomodate
    old BIOSes that couldn't handle drives larger than 32 GB ... that's
    really old, like over 2 decades old. That must be a really old HDD.

    https://www.seagate.com/files/staticfiles/maxtor/en_us/documentation/installation_guides/fireball_ultra_dma_133_installation_guide.pdf
    Page 6

    Yeah, it's for a different HDD (and Seagate acquired Maxtor back in
    2006), but it shows having 2 settings for each Master, Slave, and CSel
    setup. I suspect the AC setting does the same.

    If you don't have anything now across the AC pins, you don't need to use
    that extra setting. It won't be needed in your new setup. The extra
    jumper was to limit the size of the drive.
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.112
  • From Joe Pfeiffer@pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage on Sat Apr 25 18:33:01 2020
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

    Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> writes:

    Hi,

    I am transferring an old hard disk (20 Gbyte
    Maxtor D740X) from an old PC to a newer one
    (Dell Dimension 3000). On the old machine
    the disk was the boot drive, and so was
    configured as the Master device. On the newer
    machine it will be a Slave device.

    I have the "Jumper, CHS, and Install Guide"
    for the drive, but there are two Slave
    jumper settings. These are called "Slave"
    and "Slave with AC", but nowhere does the
    document explain was "AC" actually is.
    (There is also "Master with AC" and "Cable
    Select with AC".) What is "AC"?

    I can't Google at the moment because my old
    PC does not have the required encryption
    protocols. This is why I am trying to
    upgrade.

    I found the manual on line, and couldn't find the settings with AC -- it
    does have Slave with CLJ and Master with CLJ, however -- these are used
    to tell the computer that the drive has fewer cylinders than it really
    does, for *really* antique machines whose BIOS can't deal with a disk
    this big. What I found is for the US market; if you're not in the US
    could it be renamed for different markets?

    If it were me, I'd set it to Cable Select, no CLJ.
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.112
  • From VanguardLH@V@nguard.LH to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage on Sat Apr 25 20:55:38 2020
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

    Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> writes:

    Hi,

    I am transferring an old hard disk (20 Gbyte
    Maxtor D740X) from an old PC to a newer one
    (Dell Dimension 3000). On the old machine
    the disk was the boot drive, and so was
    configured as the Master device. On the newer
    machine it will be a Slave device.

    I have the "Jumper, CHS, and Install Guide"
    for the drive, but there are two Slave
    jumper settings. These are called "Slave"
    and "Slave with AC", but nowhere does the
    document explain was "AC" actually is.
    (There is also "Master with AC" and "Cable
    Select with AC".) What is "AC"?

    I can't Google at the moment because my old
    PC does not have the required encryption
    protocols. This is why I am trying to
    upgrade.

    I found the manual on line, and couldn't find the settings with AC -- it
    does have Slave with CLJ and Master with CLJ, however -- these are used
    to tell the computer that the drive has fewer cylinders than it really
    does, for *really* antique machines whose BIOS can't deal with a disk
    this big. What I found is for the US market; if you're not in the US
    could it be renamed for different markets?

    If it were me, I'd set it to Cable Select, no CLJ.

    Assuming you get the correct IDE connector (I think it was the one in
    the middle) on the drive to make it a slave. If you're using a
    one-connector cable, set the drive as Slave (since you don't want to
    boot from it).
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.112
  • From VanguardLH@V@nguard.LH to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage on Sat Apr 25 20:59:32 2020
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

    VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:

    Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> writes:

    Hi,

    I am transferring an old hard disk (20 Gbyte
    Maxtor D740X) from an old PC to a newer one
    (Dell Dimension 3000). On the old machine
    the disk was the boot drive, and so was
    configured as the Master device. On the newer
    machine it will be a Slave device.

    I have the "Jumper, CHS, and Install Guide"
    for the drive, but there are two Slave
    jumper settings. These are called "Slave"
    and "Slave with AC", but nowhere does the
    document explain was "AC" actually is.
    (There is also "Master with AC" and "Cable
    Select with AC".) What is "AC"?

    I can't Google at the moment because my old
    PC does not have the required encryption
    protocols. This is why I am trying to
    upgrade.

    I found the manual on line, and couldn't find the settings with AC -- it
    does have Slave with CLJ and Master with CLJ, however -- these are used
    to tell the computer that the drive has fewer cylinders than it really
    does, for *really* antique machines whose BIOS can't deal with a disk
    this big. What I found is for the US market; if you're not in the US
    could it be renamed for different markets?

    If it were me, I'd set it to Cable Select, no CLJ.

    Assuming you get the correct IDE connector (I think it was the one in
    the middle) on the drive to make it a slave. If you're using a
    one-connector cable, set the drive as Slave (since you don't want to
    boot from it).

    Well, that should've been "If you are using a 2-connector IDE cable (1
    at the mobo port, 1 at the drive), set drive to Slave. If you are using
    a 3-connector IDE cable (1 at mobo, 2 at the drives), use the middle
    connector if you use CSEL (that's why it's called Cable Select by
    deciding which connector, end or middle, to use at the drive). Or just
    set the drive to Slave and don't worry to which connector you attach to
    the drive."

    Since the drive will be out of a computer, getting at the jumpers will
    be easy. Instead of worrying about using the wrong cable connector,
    setting the jumper to Slave eliminates an accidental wrong connection."
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.112
  • From Joe Pfeiffer@pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage on Sun Apr 26 12:30:20 2020
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

    VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes:

    Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> writes:

    Hi,

    I am transferring an old hard disk (20 Gbyte
    Maxtor D740X) from an old PC to a newer one
    (Dell Dimension 3000). On the old machine
    the disk was the boot drive, and so was
    configured as the Master device. On the newer
    machine it will be a Slave device.

    I have the "Jumper, CHS, and Install Guide"
    for the drive, but there are two Slave
    jumper settings. These are called "Slave"
    and "Slave with AC", but nowhere does the
    document explain was "AC" actually is.
    (There is also "Master with AC" and "Cable
    Select with AC".) What is "AC"?

    I can't Google at the moment because my old
    PC does not have the required encryption
    protocols. This is why I am trying to
    upgrade.

    I found the manual on line, and couldn't find the settings with AC -- it
    does have Slave with CLJ and Master with CLJ, however -- these are used
    to tell the computer that the drive has fewer cylinders than it really
    does, for *really* antique machines whose BIOS can't deal with a disk
    this big. What I found is for the US market; if you're not in the US
    could it be renamed for different markets?

    If it were me, I'd set it to Cable Select, no CLJ.

    Assuming you get the correct IDE connector (I think it was the one in
    the middle) on the drive to make it a slave. If you're using a
    one-connector cable, set the drive as Slave (since you don't want to
    boot from it).

    You're right, of course. I assumed from the fact he wanted to make it a
    Slave that he had two; were there ever cables that didn't have the
    reversed wires to indicate Master/Slave?
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.112
  • From Mark Perkins@mark@none.invalid to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage on Sun Apr 26 13:50:14 2020
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

    On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 12:30:20 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu>
    wrote:

    VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> writes:

    Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:

    Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> writes:

    Hi,

    I am transferring an old hard disk (20 Gbyte
    Maxtor D740X) from an old PC to a newer one
    (Dell Dimension 3000). On the old machine
    the disk was the boot drive, and so was
    configured as the Master device. On the newer
    machine it will be a Slave device.

    I have the "Jumper, CHS, and Install Guide"
    for the drive, but there are two Slave
    jumper settings. These are called "Slave"
    and "Slave with AC", but nowhere does the
    document explain was "AC" actually is.
    (There is also "Master with AC" and "Cable
    Select with AC".) What is "AC"?

    I can't Google at the moment because my old
    PC does not have the required encryption
    protocols. This is why I am trying to
    upgrade.

    I found the manual on line, and couldn't find the settings with AC -- it >>> does have Slave with CLJ and Master with CLJ, however -- these are used
    to tell the computer that the drive has fewer cylinders than it really
    does, for *really* antique machines whose BIOS can't deal with a disk
    this big. What I found is for the US market; if you're not in the US
    could it be renamed for different markets?

    If it were me, I'd set it to Cable Select, no CLJ.

    Assuming you get the correct IDE connector (I think it was the one in
    the middle) on the drive to make it a slave. If you're using a
    one-connector cable, set the drive as Slave (since you don't want to
    boot from it).

    You're right, of course. I assumed from the fact he wanted to make it a >Slave that he had two; were there ever cables that didn't have the
    reversed wires to indicate Master/Slave?

    From memory, you could buy two-drive IDE cables and one-drive IDE cables.
    You could also harvest a drive connector from a bad cable and install it somewhere toward the middle of a one-drive cable to turn it into a
    two-drive cable. There were also 40-pin and later 80-pin variations, so the connector had to match.

    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.112
  • From Yousuf Khan@bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage on Mon Apr 27 03:15:03 2020
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

    On 4/25/2020 6:15 PM, Martin Leese wrote:
    Hi,

    I am transferring an old hard disk (20 Gbyte
    Maxtor D740X) from an old PC to a newer one
    (Dell Dimension 3000).  On the old machine
    the disk was the boot drive, and so was
    configured as the Master device. On the newer
    machine it will be a Slave device.

    I have the "Jumper, CHS, and Install Guide"
    for the drive, but there are two Slave
    jumper settings.  These are called "Slave"
    and "Slave with AC", but nowhere does the
    document explain was "AC" actually is.
    (There is also "Master with AC" and "Cable
    Select with AC".)  What is "AC"?

    I can't Google at the moment because my old
    PC does not have the required encryption
    protocols.  This is why I am trying to
    upgrade.

    I guess so far there's been no explanation of what the "AC" means yet.
    My guess is that it probably stands for "Address Control" or something,
    which might be a way of getting an older BIOS to understand a newer
    drive. I think around this time most drives used the older CHS
    (Cylinder, Head, Sector) formatting system, and to get bigger the new generation had to switch to the newer LBA (Logical Block Address)
    system. Address Control might indicate to the BIOS whether to use the
    CHS system or the LBA system. Later generation BIOSes could figure this
    stuff out on their own.

    Yousuf Khan
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.112
  • From VanguardLH@V@nguard.LH to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage on Mon Apr 27 14:31:38 2020
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

    Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 4/25/2020 6:15 PM, Martin Leese wrote:
    Hi,

    I am transferring an old hard disk (20 Gbyte
    Maxtor D740X) from an old PC to a newer one
    (Dell Dimension 3000).  On the old machine
    the disk was the boot drive, and so was
    configured as the Master device. On the newer
    machine it will be a Slave device.

    I have the "Jumper, CHS, and Install Guide"
    for the drive, but there are two Slave
    jumper settings.  These are called "Slave"
    and "Slave with AC", but nowhere does the
    document explain was "AC" actually is.
    (There is also "Master with AC" and "Cable
    Select with AC".)  What is "AC"?

    I can't Google at the moment because my old
    PC does not have the required encryption
    protocols.  This is why I am trying to
    upgrade.

    I guess so far there's been no explanation of what the "AC" means yet.
    My guess is that it probably stands for "Address Control" or something, which might be a way of getting an older BIOS to understand a newer
    drive. I think around this time most drives used the older CHS
    (Cylinder, Head, Sector) formatting system, and to get bigger the new generation had to switch to the newer LBA (Logical Block Address)
    system. Address Control might indicate to the BIOS whether to use the
    CHS system or the LBA system. Later generation BIOSes could figure this stuff out on their own.

    Even for BIOSes that supported LBA, they were and still are limited to
    the number of addressing bits. At one time, 22 bits was thought
    sufficient for IDE/ATA drives. Then 28 bits. Now it's up to 48 bits.
    If that isn't enough for the partition size, up the entity size
    (sectors). Hard disks have implemented LBA (Int13 extensions) since
    1996 rather than rely on a CHS translation scheme in the BIOS.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_block_addressing#LBA48
    "The current 48-bit LBA scheme was introduced in 2003 with the ATA-6 standard,[4] raising the addressing limit to 248 × 512 bytes, which is
    exactly 128 PiB or approximately 144.1PB."

    One day, partitions will get bigger than that, and we'll need more or
    different specs to address those super-sized drives. Or come up with an entirely different addressing scheme.

    The Maxtor D470X was introduced back around 1996 as part of their
    redesigned DiamondMax family line using TI DSP-based architecture. That
    was well back in the era when there were BIOSes with and without LBA, so
    lots of drives had to cover old and new PCs at that time to maintain
    their revenue. The OP wants to put that old Maxtor HDD into a Dell
    Dimension 3000 the latter of which was introduced in 2004 (we don't know
    what box that drive was in before). That PC will have LBA support. The
    AC (aka CLJ) jumper is not needed on that old drive, because it isn't
    going into a pre-millenial PC. The jumper wasn't needed in his old PC.
    It won't be needed in his new[er] PC.
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.112
  • From Yousuf Khan@bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com to comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage on Wed Apr 29 16:07:40 2020
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage

    On 4/27/2020 3:31 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    Yousuf Khan<bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> wrote:
    I guess so far there's been no explanation of what the "AC" means yet.
    My guess is that it probably stands for "Address Control" or something,
    which might be a way of getting an older BIOS to understand a newer
    drive. I think around this time most drives used the older CHS
    (Cylinder, Head, Sector) formatting system, and to get bigger the new
    generation had to switch to the newer LBA (Logical Block Address)
    system. Address Control might indicate to the BIOS whether to use the
    CHS system or the LBA system. Later generation BIOSes could figure this
    stuff out on their own.
    Even for BIOSes that supported LBA, they were and still are limited to
    the number of addressing bits. At one time, 22 bits was thought
    sufficient for IDE/ATA drives. Then 28 bits. Now it's up to 48 bits.
    If that isn't enough for the partition size, up the entity size
    (sectors). Hard disks have implemented LBA (Int13 extensions) since
    1996 rather than rely on a CHS translation scheme in the BIOS.

    I wasn't saying that these BIOSes couldn't understand LBA addressing,
    just that they needed a manual indicator to be set, by having a jumper
    switch. It would have still been early days for LBA addressing at that
    point, and probably the BIOS writers couldn't be bothered to implement self-detecting algorithms for it, so just use a jumper switch instead.

    Yousuf Khan
    --- Synchronet 3.18a-Linux NewsLink 1.112