"Nom de plume," f'rexample, is cited by Wiktionary as being coined in
English by analogy to "nom de guerre," which *is* a native French
expression. English does use the literal rendering "pen name" more
commonly, but the French version still sees use essentially because it "sounds cool" to deploy foreign words - the same reason you see
gratuitous (and frequently nonsensical) English in Japanese media.
Some French words
are used in English because they sound cool. And they are far more than
what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
As a lot of new words comes from English, mostly in computer land
but not only, French are using them because it's easier to adopt
them than to coin new ones.
That's nothing new to me. Another reason is some French people don't
speak English but want to make believe they know it to sound could
and are using English words.
But what is "new" to me, I mean not from yesterday, but from a few
years, is that it works in the other way around, too. Some French
words are used in English because they sound cool. And they are far
more than what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
On 25/10/2025 13:49, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Some French words
are used in English because they sound cool. And they are far more than
what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
Yes. 'Jus' sounds terribly exciting. 'Gravy' doesn't.
On 25 Oct 2025 12:49:55 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
As a lot of new words comes from English, mostly in computer land
but not only, French are using them because it's easier to adopt
them than to coin new ones.
You mean, nobody says “logiciel pour ordinateur” any more? ;)
That's nothing new to me. Another reason is some French people don't
speak English but want to make believe they know it to sound could
and are using English words.
But what is "new" to me, I mean not from yesterday, but from a few
years, is that it works in the other way around, too. Some French
words are used in English because they sound cool. And they are far
more than what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
Heck, French has been a “cool” language for centuries, and not just
among English speakers. What you said above about English becoming
“cool” to French people ... now that is a big surprise, and seems a
more recent development.
Heh heh ... I remember back in the late 80s or so during an "All
French" wave of fanaticism they decided to replace the word
"satellite" with what was essentially a full sentence-long
description about made objects lofted into orbits
"Satellite" or even "Sputnik" were a hell of a lot better,
but not FRENCH !
On 2025-10-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 25/10/2025 13:49, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Some French words are used in English because they sound cool. And
they are far more than what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
Yes. 'Jus' sounds terribly exciting. 'Gravy' doesn't.
A popular construct on local menus is the phrase "with au jus". That one
rubs my fur backwards. Redundant prepositions!
A popular construct on local menus is the phrase "with au jus".
That one rubs my fur backwards. Redundant prepositions!
On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 22:16:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-10-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 25/10/2025 13:49, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Some French words are used in English because they sound cool. And
they are far more than what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
Yes. 'Jus' sounds terribly exciting. 'Gravy' doesn't.
A popular construct on local menus is the phrase "with au jus". That one
rubs my fur backwards. Redundant prepositions!
You must love the US southwest with constructions like Rio Grande River.
On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 21:19:03 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Heh heh ... I remember back in the late 80s or so during an "All
French" wave of fanaticism they decided to replace the word
"satellite" with what was essentially a full sentence-long
description about made objects lofted into orbits
"Satellite" or even "Sputnik" were a hell of a lot better,
but not FRENCH !
https://www.etymonline.com/word/satellite
Several other sources also say it was a Middle French word meaning
sycophant or follower.
German leaves off the 'e'. I have a Grundig Satellit 700 shortwave
receiver. Grundig started using Satellit in '64, being all hip and space racey.
trivia: Trabant is a synonym more used for a moon orbiting a planet.
Fitting for the much beloved Trabant car which was out of this world.
On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 22:16:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-10-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 25/10/2025 13:49, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Some French words are used in English because they sound cool. And
they are far more than what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
Yes. 'Jus' sounds terribly exciting. 'Gravy' doesn't.
A popular construct on local menus is the phrase "with au jus". That one
rubs my fur backwards. Redundant prepositions!
You must love the US southwest with constructions like Rio Grande River.
Things must be worse in the EU ... SO many languages/names to
translate so the locals "get it"
On 2025-10-26, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 22:16:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-10-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 25/10/2025 13:49, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Some French words are used in English because they sound cool. And
they are far more than what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
Yes. 'Jus' sounds terribly exciting. 'Gravy' doesn't.
A popular construct on local menus is the phrase "with au jus". That one >>> rubs my fur backwards. Redundant prepositions!
You must love the US southwest with constructions like Rio Grande River.
I'd like it better if it were the "Big Rio Grande River".
This message has been brought to by the
Department of Redundancy Department.
England and Scotland have something like ten River Avons.
Richard Kettlewell wrote:
England and Scotland have something like ten River Avons.The classic has got to be Torpenhow Hill ...
On 2025-10-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 25/10/2025 13:49, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Some French words
are used in English because they sound cool. And they are far more than
what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
Yes. 'Jus' sounds terribly exciting. 'Gravy' doesn't.
A popular construct on local menus is the phrase "with au jus".
That one rubs my fur backwards. Redundant prepositions!
Things must be worse in the EU ... SO many
languages/names to translate so the locals
"get it"
On 25 Oct 2025 12:49:55 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
As a lot of new words comes from English, mostly in computer land
but not only, French are using them because it's easier to adopt
them than to coin new ones.
You mean, nobody says “logiciel pour ordinateur” any more? ;)
That's nothing new to me. Another reason is some French people don't
speak English but want to make believe they know it to sound could
and are using English words.
But what is "new" to me, I mean not from yesterday, but from a few
years, is that it works in the other way around, too. Some French
words are used in English because they sound cool. And they are far
more than what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
Heck, French has been a “cool” language for centuries, and not just
among English speakers.
What you said above about English becoming
“cool” to French people ... now that is a big surprise, and seems a
more recent development.
On 10/25/25 18:03, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On 25 Oct 2025 12:49:55 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
As a lot of new words comes from English, mostly in computer land
but not only, French are using them because it's easier to adopt
them than to coin new ones.
You mean, nobody says “logiciel pour ordinateur” any more? ;)
Heh heh ... I remember back in the late 80s or so
during an "All French" wave of fanaticism they decided
to replace the word "satellite" with what was essentially
a full sentence-long description about made objects
lofted into orbits :-)
"Satellite" or even "Sputnik" were a hell of a lot better,
but not FRENCH !
Le 25-10-2025, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
On 25 Oct 2025 12:49:55 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
As a lot of new words comes from English, mostly in computer land
but not only, French are using them because it's easier to adopt
them than to coin new ones.
You mean, nobody says “logiciel pour ordinateur” any more? ;)
Exactly. Well, I mean that logiciel and ordinateur were words coined
well before I was born. So, at that time, only a limited number of guys
were discovering computers. And so, it was easy to coin a new term
before it was well spread.
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
On 2025-10-26, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 22:16:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-10-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 25/10/2025 13:49, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
Some French words are used in English because they sound cool. And >>>>>> they are far more than what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
Yes. 'Jus' sounds terribly exciting. 'Gravy' doesn't.
A popular construct on local menus is the phrase "with au jus". That one >>>> rubs my fur backwards. Redundant prepositions!
You must love the US southwest with constructions like Rio Grande River.
I'd like it better if it were the "Big Rio Grande River".
This message has been brought to by the
Department of Redundancy Department.
England and Scotland have something like ten River Avons. ‘Avon’ was the Brythonic word for ‘river’, also surviving in modern Welsh ‘afon’ (pronounced with a hard ‘v’).
On 2025-10-26 02:19, c186282 wrote:
On 10/25/25 18:03, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On 25 Oct 2025 12:49:55 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
As a lot of new words comes from English, mostly in computer land but
not only, French are using them because it's easier to adopt them
than to coin new ones.
You mean, nobody says “logiciel pour ordinateur” any more? ;)
Heh heh ... I remember back in the late 80s or so during an "All
French" wave of fanaticism they decided to replace the word
"satellite" with what was essentially a full sentence-long
description about made objects lofted into orbits :-)
"Satellite" or even "Sputnik" were a hell of a lot better,
but not FRENCH !
What word is used for the Moon? It is a satellite.
You shouldn't. If you hear people fighting against English words coming
into French, it means, there are French guys who are using those words.
And those words are technical words, so they are used by technical guys because they don't have better words. But at the same time, they are
used by not technical guys who want to make look like they now their
stuff. So,
they are using those words just because they sound cool. That's not that
new. In shit, like advertisement, people were using English words
decades ago to make their speech look like it's serious when it's only bullshit.
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
Richard Kettlewell wrote:
England and Scotland have something like ten River Avons.The classic has got to be Torpenhow Hill ...
Torpenhow is a real village in Cumbria. It may etymologize to ‘hill hill ridge’, although that is not the only theory and while it does seem to
be on a gentle slope, ‘ridge’ quite obviously does not fit.
On Sun, 26 Oct 2025 14:52:24 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-26 02:19, c186282 wrote:
On 10/25/25 18:03, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On 25 Oct 2025 12:49:55 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
As a lot of new words comes from English, mostly in computer land but >>>>> not only, French are using them because it's easier to adopt them
than to coin new ones.
You mean, nobody says “logiciel pour ordinateur” any more? ;)
Heh heh ... I remember back in the late 80s or so during an "All
French" wave of fanaticism they decided to replace the word
"satellite" with what was essentially a full sentence-long
description about made objects lofted into orbits :-)
"Satellite" or even "Sputnik" were a hell of a lot better,
but not FRENCH !
What word is used for the Moon? It is a satellite.
La lune?
Trivia: In the German the moon (der Mond) is masculine and the sun (die Sonne) if feminine. I think that's true for most Germanic languages. Lee Hollander, a translator of old Norse material, took heat for switching genders. I'm sure he knew what he was doing but thought calling the moon 'him' would be weird for English readers.
My theory is if you live in a place that's cold and dark for a substantial part of the year the nice, warming sun has a maternal feel to it, versus
the cold full moon on a 20 below night.
What word is used for the Moon? It is a satellite.
Spain has "Rio Guadalquivir" or "Rio Guadiana". Apparently, Guad means
river in Arabic. I say apparently because once I asked an Iraqi and he
said "no" ...
Chatgpt says the name was "al-wādi al-kabīr" (ٱلْوَادِي ٱلْكَبِير) (the
big river or the big valley), where "al-wādi" shifted into "guad-"
(similar pronunciation in Spanish).
On Sun, 26 Oct 2025 19:48:42 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Spain has "Rio Guadalquivir" or "Rio Guadiana". Apparently, Guad means
river in Arabic. I say apparently because once I asked an Iraqi and he
said "no" ...
There is no “g” (as you might use in “Guadalquivir”) in Arabic -- or maybe
“q” is pronounced that way in some regions (Egypt?). Thus the place we all
call “Gaza” is actually “Ghaza” (غزة).
Chatgpt says the name was "al-wādi al-kabīr" (ٱلْوَادِي ٱلْكَبِير) (the
big river or the big valley), where "al-wādi" shifted into "guad-"
(similar pronunciation in Spanish).
My understanding is that “wādi” means “dry river bed”. As in those places
that will suddenly turn into a river in a rainstorm. Places where it would
be really unwise to set up camp. ;)
Google Translate gives “nahr” (نهر) as the translation for “river”.--
On 2025-10-26 02:19, c186282 wrote:
On 10/25/25 18:03, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On 25 Oct 2025 12:49:55 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
As a lot of new words comes from English, mostly in computer land
but not only, French are using them because it's easier to adopt
them than to coin new ones.
You mean, nobody says “logiciel pour ordinateur” any more? ;)
Heh heh ... I remember back in the late 80s or so
during an "All French" wave of fanaticism they decided
to replace the word "satellite" with what was essentially
a full sentence-long description about made objects
lofted into orbits :-)
"Satellite" or even "Sputnik" were a hell of a lot better,
but not FRENCH !
What word is used for the Moon? It is a satellite.
Le 25-10-2025, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a écrit :
On 25 Oct 2025 12:49:55 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
As a lot of new words comes from English, mostly in computer land
but not only, French are using them because it's easier to adopt
them than to coin new ones.
You mean, nobody says “logiciel pour ordinateur” any more? ;)
Exactly. Well, I mean that logiciel and ordinateur were words coined
well before I was born. So, at that time, only a limited number of guys
were discovering computers. And so, it was easy to coin a new term
before it was well spread. Now, with emails and bugs, the words are well spread before the forty morons decide they must be replaced by French
ones. And except very rare words like conteneur for container, no new
term in tech is translated as long as it stays among the tech guys. When
they start to be used by street people, things start to be different.
That's nothing new to me. Another reason is some French people don't
speak English but want to make believe they know it to sound could
and are using English words.
But what is "new" to me, I mean not from yesterday, but from a few
years, is that it works in the other way around, too. Some French
words are used in English because they sound cool. And they are far
more than what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
Heck, French has been a “cool” language for centuries, and not just
among English speakers.
Yes. In the past. Not so long ago French was used in English and Russian courts. But it's the past. Even if it's not that old.
What you said above about English becoming
“cool” to French people ... now that is a big surprise, and seems a
more recent development.
You shouldn't. If you hear people fighting against English words coming
into French, it means, there are French guys who are using those words.
And those words are technical words, so they are used by technical guys because they don't have better words. But at the same time, they are
used by not technical guys who want to make look like they now their
stuff. So, they are using those words just because they sound cool.
That's not that new. In shit, like advertisement, people were using
English words decades ago to make their speech look like it's serious
when it's only bullshit.
Well from an historical perspective, it's very recent. But from a
lifetime one, it's not.
Everybody invaded/colonized everyone else in
Europe/UK so often that "foreign" words and
customs aren't worth mentioning.
On 10/26/25 09:52, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-26 02:19, c186282 wrote:
On 10/25/25 18:03, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On 25 Oct 2025 12:49:55 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
As a lot of new words comes from English, mostly in computer land
but not only, French are using them because it's easier to adopt
them than to coin new ones.
You mean, nobody says “logiciel pour ordinateur” any more? ;)
Heh heh ... I remember back in the late 80s or so
during an "All French" wave of fanaticism they decided
to replace the word "satellite" with what was essentially
a full sentence-long description about made objects
lofted into orbits :-)
"Satellite" or even "Sputnik" were a hell of a lot better,
but not FRENCH !
What word is used for the Moon? It is a satellite.
But not a 'made thing' - natural - unless you
ask the UFO freaks ...
But what is "new" to me, I mean not from yesterday, but from a fewYeah - English speakers adopting French terms isn't as common as it used
years, is that it works in the other way around, too. Some French
words are used in English because they sound cool. And they are far
more than what I knew/guessed a few years ago.
In Spanish and English both are satellites.
* (It'd be interesting to trace this behavior in a global context over
time - these days, for example, most of our novel loanwords seem to
come from Japanese, post-anime boom.)
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:09:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
In Spanish and English both are satellites.
In American they are “sadellites” ...
On 2025-10-27 22:23, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:09:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
In Spanish and English both are satellites.
In American they are “sadellites” ...
Huh? I don't get that one. :-?
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 00:47:21 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-27 22:23, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:09:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
In Spanish and English both are satellites.
In American they are “sadellites” ...
Huh? I don't get that one. :-?
Listen to them talk.
I wonder how they tell “waiting” from “wading” ... as in “I’ve been wading
for you” ...
On 2025-10-27 22:23, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:09:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
In Spanish and English both are satellites.
In American they are “sadellites” ...
Huh? I don't get that one. :-?
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 00:47:21 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-27 22:23, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 10:09:41 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
In Spanish and English both are satellites.
In American they are “sadellites” ...
Huh? I don't get that one. :-?
Listen to them talk.
I wonder how they tell “waiting” from “wading” ... as in “I’ve been wading
for you” ...
On 2025-10-28 01:27, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
I wonder how they tell “waiting” from “wading” ... as in “I’ve been wadingOk :-D
for you” ...
I get it. :-)
I watched this weekend, maybe for the third time, the movie "Three
Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri". It is surprising the different
accents you can hear in the same area. The police chief: educated, cultivated, polite, soft spoken. Then his aide, xenophobic, violent.
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote or quoted:
On 2025-10-28 01:27, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
I wonder how they tell “waiting” from “wading” ... as in “I’ve beenOk :-D I get it. :-)
wading for you” ...
The American /t/ is flapped in some contexts; it's not a tap [ɾ] nor a
[d], but a voiced alveolar flap [ɿ].
When the flap is performed, the tip of the tongue is bent backwards,
and then the /underside/ of the tip of the tongue briefly touches the
palate. But some people might not be able to hear any difference
between that flap [ɿ] and the [d] . . .
My downfall is British shows. Some are okay, some are very difficult for
me to understand. After a while I sometimes can adapt.
I do better with Australian shows for some reason. There was a rumor that the first 'Road Warrior' movie had to be dubbed for the US audience but I can't confirm
it.
On 2025-10-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
My downfall is British shows. Some are okay, some are very difficult for
me to understand. After a while I sometimes can adapt.
Scottish accents (especially Glaswegian) must drive you nuts.
I do better with
Australian shows for some reason. There was a rumor that the first 'Road
Warrior' movie had to be dubbed for the US audience but I can't confirm
it.
Oh, stewardess! I speak jive.
-- Airplane!
And in the Barbie movie, the lead character sings "important"
with a glottal stop.
On 2025-10-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
My downfall is British shows. Some are okay, some are very difficult
for me to understand. After a while I sometimes can adapt.
Scottish accents (especially Glaswegian) must drive you nuts.
And 'Trainspotting'. I forget which one but one of the actors didn't have
a Glaswegian accent and came up with one that was even worse. The best
part of that was Kelly Macdonald. I recently watched the 'Dept. Q' series.
I enjoyed that one and was glad it was renewed for next year.
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 20:21:07 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-10-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
My downfall is British shows. Some are okay, some are very difficult
for me to understand. After a while I sometimes can adapt.
Scottish accents (especially Glaswegian) must drive you nuts.
I saw 'Sexy Beast' in a theater and understood little except Kingsley's 'fuck' which was a big part of his monologues. I thought it was me but as
I left I overheard several couples wishing there were subtitles.
Then there was Ken Loach's 'The Navigators'. Loach prides himself on authenticity which means you have to be a Yorkie to understand the
dialogue.
And 'Trainspotting'. I forget which one but one of the actors didn't have
a Glaswegian accent and came up with one that was even worse. The best
part of that was Kelly Macdonald. I recently watched the 'Dept. Q' series.
I enjoyed that one and was glad it was renewed for next year.
It's mixed. Henshall in the 'Shetland' series was no problem.Some of the other characters were murkier.
When we visited Scotland I noticed that the farther north you went
the less pronounced the accents were.
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more even
for supposedly English speakers.
On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 18:47:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more even
for supposedly English speakers.
+1
For several reasons -- but the major reason is because of the loud'ish, gratuitous music that is played over the dialogue.
On 30/10/2025 17:29, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 18:47:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more even
for supposedly English speakers.
+1
For several reasons -- but the major reason is because of the loud'ish,
gratuitous music that is played over the dialogue.
inter-modulating in your ear with the speech...
Deafness isn't just about frequency response and gain
On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 18:47:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more even
for supposedly English speakers.
+1 For several reasons -- but the major reason is because of the
loud'ish,
gratuitous music that is played over the dialogue.
On 30/10/2025 17:29, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 18:47:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:inter-modulating in your ear with the speech...
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more even
for supposedly English speakers.
+1 For several reasons -- but the major reason is because of the
loud'ish,
gratuitous music that is played over the dialogue.
Deafness isn't just about frequency response and gain
I've noticed that myself. In a quiet environment, I can still hear
quite faint sounds. For instance, the hearing test where the doctor
whispers numbers from across the room is no problem for me, and on a
hike I can hear birds from a long way off.
But picking out speech from background noise is becoming more and more difficult; in a loud environment I'm functionally deaf.
I've also noticed that many young people seem to slur their words, which makes the problem even worse.
On 2025-10-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 20:21:07 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-10-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
My downfall is British shows. Some are okay, some are very difficult
for me to understand. After a while I sometimes can adapt.
Scottish accents (especially Glaswegian) must drive you nuts.
I saw 'Sexy Beast' in a theater and understood little except Kingsley's
'fuck' which was a big part of his monologues. I thought it was me but as
I left I overheard several couples wishing there were subtitles.
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more
even for supposedly English speakers.
On 30 Oct 2025 17:29:34 GMT, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 18:47:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more even
for supposedly English speakers.
+1 For several reasons -- but the major reason is because of the
loud'ish,
gratuitous music that is played over the dialogue.
I agree on that. I also don't care for the trend toward dark scenes. I
don't mean dark as in murder and mayhem but as in lighting. My theory is
low lighting levels means they can be sloppier with set construction.
Before HD that got smoothed out better.
On 2025-10-30 21:10, rbowman wrote:
On 30 Oct 2025 17:29:34 GMT, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 18:47:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more even >>>> for supposedly English speakers.
+1 For several reasons -- but the major reason is because of the
loud'ish,
gratuitous music that is played over the dialogue.
I agree on that. I also don't care for the trend toward dark scenes. I
don't mean dark as in murder and mayhem but as in lighting. My theory is
low lighting levels means they can be sloppier with set construction.
Before HD that got smoothed out better.
I complained of that with the original Blade Runner movie. Why has the future to be dark? Surely they will have invented good lighting sources.
On 2025-10-30 21:10, rbowman wrote:
On 30 Oct 2025 17:29:34 GMT, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 18:47:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more even >>>> for supposedly English speakers.
+1 For several reasons -- but the major reason is because of the
loud'ish,
gratuitous music that is played over the dialogue.
I agree on that. I also don't care for the trend toward dark scenes. I
don't mean dark as in murder and mayhem but as in lighting. My theory is
low lighting levels means they can be sloppier with set construction.
Before HD that got smoothed out better.
I complained of that with the original Blade Runner movie. Why has the future to be dark? Surely they will have invented good lighting sources.
But sometimes in Spanish movies or serials (and Spanish is my first
language) there is a word I don't understand, and I have to rewind
and activate the subtitles. It is rare, but it does happen.
On 2025-10-30 21:10, rbowman wrote:
On 30 Oct 2025 17:29:34 GMT, Allodoxaphobia wrote:
On Wed, 29 Oct 2025 18:47:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more even >>>> for supposedly English speakers.
+1 For several reasons -- but the major reason is because of the
loud'ish,
gratuitous music that is played over the dialogue.
I agree on that. I also don't care for the trend toward dark scenes. I
don't mean dark as in murder and mayhem but as in lighting. My theory is
low lighting levels means they can be sloppier with set construction.
Before HD that got smoothed out better.
I complained of that with the original Blade Runner movie. Why has the future to be dark? Surely they will have invented good lighting sources.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:33:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
But sometimes in Spanish movies or serials (and Spanish is my first
language) there is a word I don't understand, and I have to rewind
and activate the subtitles. It is rare, but it does happen.
Any language that has been in used in an area for centuries (like
Spanish) and was also spread around via a worlwide empire at one stage
(like Spanish) is bound to develop regional variations though, isn’t
it.
Is the Spanish spoken in the Americas very different from Spain? Not
to mention the variations within Spain itself.
There is a reporter on Al Jazeera named Teresa Bo, and I am quite
intrigued with the way she pronounces Spanish names: e.g. “Nicolas Maduro” comes out sounding more like “Nicolah Maluro” (perhaps I
should use the Vietnamese letter, since that’s what it sounds like: “Mađuro”). Or in “Cuba” the “b” sound turns almost into “w”. I think
she’s from Argentina, but I can’t be sure.
On 2025-10-29 19:47, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-10-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 20:21:07 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-10-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
My downfall is British shows. Some are okay, some are very difficult >>>>> for me to understand. After a while I sometimes can adapt.
Scottish accents (especially Glaswegian) must drive you nuts.
I saw 'Sexy Beast' in a theater and understood little except Kingsley's
'fuck' which was a big part of his monologues. I thought it was me
but as
I left I overheard several couples wishing there were subtitles.
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more
even for supposedly English speakers.
As my first language is not English, you can not imagine how reassuring
is to me what you said there, when I need to have the subtitles there (hopefully in English, but otherwise Spanish will do) because there is always a word that I don't catch every little while.
But sometimes in Spanish movies or serials (and Spanish is my first language) there is a word I don't understand, and I have to rewind and activate the subtitles. It is rare, but it does happen.
Reminds me, in Amazon Prime Video sometimes there is an alternative
audio track with "improved dialogue clarity" or some wording to that respect.
Electricity is being rationed and the City cannot afford therates
on peak use. I try to tune off appliances apart from the computer and refrigerator during peak use hours.
But sometimes in Spanish movies or serials (and Spanish is my first
language) there is a word I don't understand, and I have to rewind and activate the subtitles. It is rare, but it does happen.
Is the Spanish spoken in the Americas very different from Spain? Not to mention the variations within Spain itself.
There is a fashion in modern English-speaking movies/TV for actors to
mumble. If you watch older films from the 1930s and 1940s, the actors
speak far more clearly. Actors used more of a cut glass accent, which is easier to understand.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 15:18:38 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Electricity is being rationed and the City cannot afford therates
for
on peak use. I try to tune off appliances apart from the computer and
refrigerator during peak use hours.
I was shocked when I got my September electric bill. The usage was up to winter levels when I use electric space heaters.
The culprit was an 'energy saving' LED bulb that was trying to act as a
space heater. It finally destroyed the switch in the fixture. I thought
the bulb had failed but when I went to remove it it was red hot. I
replaced the entire fixture.
That energy saving feature cost me a lot more than any energy it ever
saved. I'm amazed it didn't blow the 15 A fuse.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:33:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
But sometimes in Spanish movies or serials (and Spanish is my first
language) there is a word I don't understand, and I have to rewind and
activate the subtitles. It is rare, but it does happen.
We had a woman from Columbia who would sit in on teleconferences with our clients in Puerto Rico to give a running translation if they switched to Spanish among themselves. Sometimes their private discussion were heated
and rapid fire and she could only get the gist of it.
Sometimes the misunderstandings are amusing. I watch some British police
or crime shows and often the head honcho is a woman who they address as 'Ma'am'. As far as I'm concerned they are calling her Mom.
Some of the British actors also do something with 'murder'. It isn't quite 'murther' but there is more than just 'd'.
On 2025-10-30 23:20, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Any language that has been in used in an area for centuries (like
Spanish) and was also spread around via a worlwide empire at one stage
(like Spanish) is bound to develop regional variations though, isn’t
it.
Certainly. But the actors I did not understand were from Spain and the action was taking place in Spain.
I complained of that with the original Blade Runner movie. Why has the
future to be dark? Surely they will have invented good lighting sources.
There is a fashion in modern English-speaking movies/TV for actors to mumble. If you watch older films from the 1930s and 1940s, the actors
speak far more clearly. Actors used more of a cut glass accent, which is easier to understand.
So it isn't just that we are all going deaf, although we probably are.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:33:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
But sometimes in Spanish movies or serials (and Spanish is my first
language) there is a word I don't understand, and I have to rewind and
activate the subtitles. It is rare, but it does happen.
We had a woman from Columbia who would sit in on teleconferences with our clients in Puerto Rico to give a running translation if they switched to Spanish among themselves. Sometimes their private discussion were heated
and rapid fire and she could only get the gist of it.
Sometimes the misunderstandings are amusing. I watch some British police
or crime shows and often the head honcho is a woman who they address as 'Ma'am'. As far as I'm concerned they are calling her Mom.
Some of the British actors also do something with 'murder'. It isn't quite 'murther' but there is more than just 'd'.
On 10/30/25 20:29, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:33:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
But sometimes in Spanish movies or serials (and Spanish is my first
language) there is a word I don't understand, and I have to rewind and
activate the subtitles. It is rare, but it does happen.
We had a woman from Columbia who would sit in on teleconferences with our
clients in Puerto Rico to give a running translation if they switched to
Spanish among themselves. Sometimes their private discussion were heated
and rapid fire and she could only get the gist of it.
Sometimes the misunderstandings are amusing. I watch some British police
or crime shows and often the head honcho is a woman who they address as
'Ma'am'. As far as I'm concerned they are calling her Mom.
Some of the British actors also do something with 'murder'. It isn't
quite
'murther' but there is more than just 'd'.
I have seen that "murthering bastards" in print. It is a common thing apparently.
"Ma'am" means boss because you know that is how the Queen was addressed by
people of appropriate rank.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:35:49 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I complained of that with the original Blade Runner movie. Why has the
future to be dark? Surely they will have invented good lighting sources.
There are things you could complain about in “Blade Runner” (gratuitous violence), but surely not that: the look of the film, conceived by Syd
Mead and Ridley Scott, with advanced yet shabby and well-used technology,
the vast, towering, dirty city, the melding of Eastern and Western
cultures ... that had a major influence on other aspiring sci-fi
moviemakers, I would say on a par with “2001: A Space Odyssey”.
RIP Philip K Dick, SF novelist who wrote--and lived--right on the edge of sanity a lot of the time, and who died before production was completed.
Also RIP Rutger Hauer, who died in 2019, the year the movie was set in.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 23:36:01 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-30 23:20, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Any language that has been in used in an area for centuries (like
Spanish) and was also spread around via a worlwide empire at one stage
(like Spanish) is bound to develop regional variations though, isn’t
it.
Certainly. But the actors I did not understand were from Spain and the
action was taking place in Spain.
I’m sure there are some quite wide regional variations within there, like in English in the UK. There is a saying: “A language is a dialect with an army”. Scots (lowland Scots, à la Robbie Burns, not highland Gaelic) would have been an entirely separate language from English, if it were not for
the Scottish king inheriting the English throne. How different is Catalan from Spanish? Are there other regional languages/dialects that are maybe almost as different? (And then there’s Basque ...)
Even within England, there can be wide variation. I remember watching a TV comedy/drama series called “Auf Wiedersehen, Pet”, back in the 1980s, during the time when Maggie Thatcher was 🇬🇧 Prime Minister, and whose policies had thrown large numbers of Brits out of work. The main
characters were from around England, plus an Irishman (bricklayers, carpenters etc), who got work in West Germany, which was undergoing a construction boom at the time. And they had all their different styles of regional speech.
Three of them were from north-east England, around Newcastle, aka “Geordies”. The first episode, I had to strain to make sense of what they were saying -- it was an accent I had never heard before. After that, it
got a bit easier ...
On 2025-10-31 05:51, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 23:36:01 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-30 23:20, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Any language that has been in used in an area for centuries (like
Spanish) and was also spread around via a worlwide empire at one stage >>>> (like Spanish) is bound to develop regional variations though, isn’t >>>> it.
Certainly. But the actors I did not understand were from Spain and the
action was taking place in Spain.
I’m sure there are some quite wide regional variations within there, like >> in English in the UK. There is a saying: “A language is a dialect with an >> army”. Scots (lowland Scots, à la Robbie Burns, not highland Gaelic)
would
have been an entirely separate language from English, if it were not for
the Scottish king inheriting the English throne. How different is Catalan
from Spanish? Are there other regional languages/dialects that are maybe
almost as different? (And then there’s Basque ...)
Catalan is different, quite different, but it is a language on its own.
And there are other regional languages. I can not understand a speaker
of those languages, just some words.
But I can understand a Spanish speaker born in Cataluña, no problem.
Even within England, there can be wide variation. I remember watching
a TV
comedy/drama series called “Auf Wiedersehen, Pet”, back in the 1980s,
during the time when Maggie Thatcher was 🇬🇧 Prime Minister, and whose >> policies had thrown large numbers of Brits out of work. The main
characters were from around England, plus an Irishman (bricklayers,
carpenters etc), who got work in West Germany, which was undergoing a
construction boom at the time. And they had all their different styles of
regional speech.
Three of them were from north-east England, around Newcastle, aka
“Geordies”. The first episode, I had to strain to make sense of what they
were saying -- it was an accent I had never heard before. After that, it
got a bit easier ...
A person that learns Spanish as a second language has serious trouble understanding a person at Sevilla or Malaga, for instance. The accent is quite different. I don't know if it is a dialect or not. But we
understand them.
BR is best understood not as a literal prediction of the future, but asThere are things you could complain about in “Blade Runner”
(gratuitous violence), but surely not that: the look of the film,
conceived by Syd Mead and Ridley Scott, with advanced yet shabby
and well-used technology, the vast, towering, dirty city, the
melding of Eastern and Western cultures ... that had a major
influence on other aspiring sci-fi moviemakers, I would say on a
par with “2001: A Space Odyssey”.
RIP Philip K Dick, SF novelist who wrote--and lived--right on the
edge of sanity a lot of the time, and who died before production
was completed.
Also RIP Rutger Hauer, who died in 2019, the year the movie was set
in.
I know all that, but I do complain. I can accept the city being dark,
but interiors being dark, no way. Heck, we invented the LED. my
interiors are brighter than they ever were.
I am surprised that you tried to replace an incandescent with anLED
for
heating purposes. When was younger and spryer I would get on a
step-stool at this Time of Year and put up some incandescent bulbs in
the bathroom to be able to warm it up. Feel too unstable for some time
now to do that as being 30 inches off the floor makes me insecure.
Broken ankle does not help with that and no room for a cane.
"Ma'am" means boss because you know that is how the Queen wasaddressed
by
people of appropriate rank.
Sometimes the misunderstandings are amusing. I watch some BritishMarm. As in 'Marmite'
police or crime shows and often the head honcho is a woman who they
address as 'Ma'am'. As far as I'm concerned they are calling her Mom.
Some of the British actors also do something with 'murder'. It isn't
quite 'murther' but there is more than just 'd'.
That sound Scots or Irish.
RIP Philip K Dick, SF novelist who wrote--and lived--right on the edge
of sanity a lot of the time, and who died before production was
completed.
I know all that, but I do complain. I can accept the city being dark,
but interiors being dark, no way. Heck, we invented the LED. my
interiors are brighter than they ever were.
Catalan is different, quite different, but it is a language on its own.
And there are other regional languages. I can not understand a speaker
of those languages, just some words.
It is the same everywhere. My sister learnt her German in Bavaria and
is quite dark skinned. People think she is Bavarian though she now lives
in central Germany.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:35:49 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I complained of that with the original Blade Runner movie. Why has the
future to be dark? Surely they will have invented good lighting sources.
There are things you could complain about in “Blade Runner” (gratuitous violence), but surely not that: the look of the film, conceived by Syd
Mead and Ridley Scott, with advanced yet shabby and well-used technology, the vast, towering, dirty city, the melding of Eastern and Western
cultures ... that had a major influence on other aspiring sci-fi moviemakers, I would say on a par with “2001: A Space Odyssey”.
RIP Philip K Dick, SF novelist who wrote--and lived--right on the edge of sanity a lot of the time, and who died before production was completed.
Also RIP Rutger Hauer, who died in 2019, the year the movie was set in.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 08:27:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Sometimes the misunderstandings are amusing. I watch some BritishMarm. As in 'Marmite'
police or crime shows and often the head honcho is a woman who they
address as 'Ma'am'. As far as I'm concerned they are calling her Mom.
No 'r' sound that I can detect although I think I have heard the 'r' creeping in on other shows. It's like the relatively recent affectation in the US Army of pronouncing 'sergeant' as 'sarnt'.
On 2025-10-31 05:59, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:35:49 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I complained of that with the original Blade Runner movie. Why has the
future to be dark? Surely they will have invented good lighting
sources.
There are things you could complain about in “Blade Runner” (gratuitous >> violence), but surely not that: the look of the film, conceived by Syd
Mead and Ridley Scott, with advanced yet shabby and well-used
technology, the vast, towering, dirty city, the melding of Eastern and
Western cultures ... that had a major influence on other aspiring
sci-fi moviemakers, I would say on a par with “2001: A Space Odyssey”.
I know all that, but I do complain. I can accept the city being dark,
but interiors being dark, no way. Heck, we invented the LED. my
interiors are brighter than they ever were.
The Outer Limits episode "Demon with a Glass Hand" (1964) was shot in
the same building as the final scenes of "Blade Runner". Both works
created a dark mood that I never forgot.
People with strong accents in England are often hard to understand
unless you have been around them a long time, which is why RP -
essentially the dialect of the home counties near London ...
... - was taught as a standard all could understand. Sadly socialism
decreed this to be discriminatory against people with accents.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 14:41:19 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I know all that, but I do complain. I can accept the city being dark,
but interiors being dark, no way. Heck, we invented the LED. my
interiors are brighter than they ever were.
I wonder about the cop/crime shows where the cops wander around in a dark apartment using flashlights. Usually there are light switches next to the door and they lost the element of surprise when the kicked the door down.
Again I think they have one set and it's easier to recycle it if you don't get a good look at it.
The real cops would be looking for fingerprints and not touch light
switches in case there are some on the switch plate. Also for the
sake of drama they may worry about some booby trap wired to the
lights.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:02:36 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun>
The real cops would be looking for fingerprints and not touch light
switches in case there are some on the switch plate. Also for the sake
of drama they may worry about some booby trap wired to the lights.
The thing with fiction is, only put in enough detail as you need for the plot, and avoid superfluous stuff that detracts from that.
E.g. Chekhov’s gun: if it’s mentioned, then it’s going to be used later,
otherwise why bring it up? <https://web.archive.org/web/20251011120122/https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/
Another reason was mentioned on IMDB: there was limited budget to build
some of the sets, so lowering the lighting was one way to hide the fact
that they would have looked cheap.
On 2025-10-31, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 08:27:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Sometimes the misunderstandings are amusing. I watch some BritishMarm. As in 'Marmite'
police or crime shows and often the head honcho is a woman who they
address as 'Ma'am'. As far as I'm concerned they are calling her Mom.
No 'r' sound that I can detect although I think I have heard the 'r'
creeping in on other shows. It's like the relatively recent affectation
in the US Army of pronouncing 'sergeant' as 'sarnt'.
We make good-natured fun of our friends to the south in Warshington.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 14:48:43 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Catalan is different, quite different, but it is a language on its own.
And there are other regional languages. I can not understand a speaker
of those languages, just some words.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swabian_German
There is the 't' and 'd' shift that Lawrence mentioned for US English.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 15:03:27 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It is the same everywhere. My sister learnt her German in Bavaria and
is quite dark skinned. People think she is Bavarian though she now lives
in central Germany.
Bavaria wasn't all that happy about joining the German Empire. Southwest Germany is Catholic and has the Swabian dialect that sets it off. In a way
it is closer to Austria, a country that a lot of people forget about entirely.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 19:02:36 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
The real cops would be looking for fingerprints and not touch light
switches in case there are some on the switch plate. Also for the
sake of drama they may worry about some booby trap wired to the
lights.
The thing with fiction is, only put in enough detail as you need for
the plot, and avoid superfluous stuff that detracts from that.
E.g. Chekhov’s gun: if it’s mentioned, then it’s going to be used later, otherwise why bring it up? <https://web.archive.org/web/20251011120122/https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGun>--
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 14:41:19 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I know all that, but I do complain. I can accept the city being dark,
but interiors being dark, no way. Heck, we invented the LED. my
interiors are brighter than they ever were.
I wonder about the cop/crime shows where the cops wander around in a dark apartment using flashlights. Usually there are light switches next to the door and they lost the element of surprise when the kicked the door down.
Again I think they have one set and it's easier to recycle it if you don't get a good look at it.--
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 14:41:19 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-31 05:59, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
I know all that, but I do complain. I can accept the city being dark,
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:35:49 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I complained of that with the original Blade Runner movie. Why has the >>>> future to be dark? Surely they will have invented good lighting
sources.
There are things you could complain about in “Blade Runner” (gratuitous >>> violence), but surely not that: the look of the film, conceived by Syd
Mead and Ridley Scott, with advanced yet shabby and well-used
technology, the vast, towering, dirty city, the melding of Eastern and
Western cultures ... that had a major influence on other aspiring
sci-fi moviemakers, I would say on a par with “2001: A Space Odyssey”. >>
but interiors being dark, no way. Heck, we invented the LED. my
interiors are brighter than they ever were.
One obvious reason is: it makes for cooler pictures. Also helped by
spreading a lot of fine smoke around.
Another reason was mentioned on IMDB: there was limited budget to build
some of the sets, so lowering the lighting was one way to hide the fact
that they would have looked cheap.
Maybe the second reason was the primary driver, and the first reason came
out of it as a happy accident. ;)
On 2025-10-31 05:59, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:35:49 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I complained of that with the original Blade Runner movie. Why has the
future to be dark? Surely they will have invented good lighting sources.
There are things you could complain about in “Blade Runner” (gratuitous >> violence), but surely not that: the look of the film, conceived by Syd
Mead and Ridley Scott, with advanced yet shabby and well-used technology,
the vast, towering, dirty city, the melding of Eastern and Western
cultures ... that had a major influence on other aspiring sci-fi
moviemakers, I would say on a par with “2001: A Space Odyssey”.
RIP Philip K Dick, SF novelist who wrote--and lived--right on the edge of
sanity a lot of the time, and who died before production was completed.
Also RIP Rutger Hauer, who died in 2019, the year the movie was set in.
I know all that, but I do complain. I can accept the city being dark,
but interiors being dark, no way. Heck, we invented the LED. my
interiors are brighter than they ever were.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:46:12 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I am surprised that you tried to replace an incandescent with anLED
for
heating purposes. When was younger and spryer I would get on a
step-stool at this Time of Year and put up some incandescent bulbs in
the bathroom to be able to warm it up. Feel too unstable for some time
now to do that as being 30 inches off the floor makes me insecure.
Broken ankle does not help with that and no room for a cane.
I did not intend the LED bulb to be a space heater. A few years ago the electric coop sent out boxes of CFL bulbs and I replaced the incandescent bulbs with those. When CFLs went out of favor they sent out boxes of LED
bulb and I used those. They were 60 W equivalent but as my cataracts got worse I got 100 W equivalent bulbs that also had a small slider to select
the color temperature. It was one of those that failed.
I didn't dissect it but I don't know how a LED could pull enough current
to become very hot and not fail. Ultimately it was the switch that
failed.
For heat I use regular 1500 W space heaters. I expect my electric bill to
go up with those on but I wasn't using them in September. I also have a
hot air gas furnace but when the blower turns on it's like a 747 taking
off so I prefer electric until it gets very cold. I don't know which is
more economical. Propane isn't cheap either.
On 31/10/2025 13:48, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-31 05:51, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:It is the same everywhere. My sister learnt her German in Bavaria and
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 23:36:01 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-30 23:20, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
Any language that has been in used in an area for centuries (like
Spanish) and was also spread around via a worlwide empire at one stage >>>>> (like Spanish) is bound to develop regional variations though, isn’t >>>>> it.
Certainly. But the actors I did not understand were from Spain and the >>>> action was taking place in Spain.
I’m sure there are some quite wide regional variations within there,
like
in English in the UK. There is a saying: “A language is a dialect
with an
army”. Scots (lowland Scots, à la Robbie Burns, not highland Gaelic) >>> would
have been an entirely separate language from English, if it were not for >>> the Scottish king inheriting the English throne. How different is
Catalan
from Spanish? Are there other regional languages/dialects that are maybe >>> almost as different? (And then there’s Basque ...)
Catalan is different, quite different, but it is a language on its
own. And there are other regional languages. I can not understand a
speaker of those languages, just some words.
But I can understand a Spanish speaker born in Cataluña, no problem.
Even within England, there can be wide variation. I remember watching
a TV
comedy/drama series called “Auf Wiedersehen, Pet”, back in the 1980s, >>> during the time when Maggie Thatcher was 🇬🇧 Prime Minister, and whose >>> policies had thrown large numbers of Brits out of work. The main
characters were from around England, plus an Irishman (bricklayers,
carpenters etc), who got work in West Germany, which was undergoing a
construction boom at the time. And they had all their different
styles of
regional speech.
Three of them were from north-east England, around Newcastle, aka
“Geordies”. The first episode, I had to strain to make sense of what >>> they
were saying -- it was an accent I had never heard before. After that, it >>> got a bit easier ...
A person that learns Spanish as a second language has serious trouble
understanding a person at Sevilla or Malaga, for instance. The accent
is quite different. I don't know if it is a dialect or not. But we
understand them.
is quite dark skinned. People think she is Bavarian though she now lives
in central Germany.
People with strong accents in England are often hard to understand
unless you have been around them a long time, which is why RP - essentially the dialect of the home counties near London - was taught as
a standard all could understand. Sadly socialism decreed this to be discriminatory against people with accents.
And there are some very very bad ones. I found one tech support person
who sounded black and female to be completely unintelligible with some
sort of elided glottal stopped mush of Estuary English.
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 15:03:27 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
People with strong accents in England are often hard to understand
unless you have been around them a long time, which is why RP -
essentially the dialect of the home counties near London ...
Funny how that didn’t actually include London itself.
... - was taught as a standard all could understand. Sadly socialism
decreed this to be discriminatory against people with accents.
Perhaps because there is no such thing as “accentless” speech.
There was a lovely “Two Ronnies” sketch, back in the day, that
skewered this issue rather well. They did a lot of playing-on-language
skits, but this one really put paid to the fond delusion that RP was
somehow easier to understand than any other accent ...
On 2025-11-01 00:26, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 15:03:27 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
People with strong accents in England are often hard to understand
unless you have been around them a long time, which is why RP -
essentially the dialect of the home counties near London ...
Funny how that didn’t actually include London itself.
... - was taught as a standard all could understand. Sadly socialism
decreed this to be discriminatory against people with accents.
Perhaps because there is no such thing as “accentless” speech.
There was a lovely “Two Ronnies” sketch, back in the day, that
skewered this issue rather well. They did a lot of playing-on-language
skits, but this one really put paid to the fond delusion that RP was
somehow easier to understand than any other accent ...
If the goal is to have English as an universal language, teaching a
common accent makes a lot of sense.
On 10/30/25 20:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-29 19:47, Charlie Gibbs wrote:There is a fashion in modern English-speaking movies/TV for actors to mumble. If you watch older films from the 1930s and 1940s, the actors
On 2025-10-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Oct 2025 20:21:07 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-10-28, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
My downfall is British shows. Some are okay, some are very difficult >>>>>> for me to understand. After a while I sometimes can adapt.
Scottish accents (especially Glaswegian) must drive you nuts.
I saw 'Sexy Beast' in a theater and understood little except Kingsley's >>>> 'fuck' which was a big part of his monologues. I thought it was me
but as
I left I overheard several couples wishing there were subtitles.
I find myself turning on subtitles (when available) more and more
even for supposedly English speakers.
As my first language is not English, you can not imagine how
reassuring is to me what you said there, when I need to have the
subtitles there (hopefully in English, but otherwise Spanish will do)
because there is always a word that I don't catch every little while.
But sometimes in Spanish movies or serials (and Spanish is my first
language) there is a word I don't understand, and I have to rewind and
activate the subtitles. It is rare, but it does happen.
speak far more clearly. Actors used more of a cut glass accent, which is easier to understand.
So it isn't just that we are all going deaf, although we probably are.
Reminds me, in Amazon Prime Video sometimes there is an alternative
audio track with "improved dialogue clarity" or some wording to that
respect.
I would choose that, but I've never seen it available.
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:33:08 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
But sometimes in Spanish movies or serials (and Spanish is my first
language) there is a word I don't understand, and I have to rewind and
activate the subtitles. It is rare, but it does happen.
We had a woman from Columbia who would sit in on teleconferences with our clients in Puerto Rico to give a running translation if they switched to Spanish among themselves. Sometimes their private discussion were heated
and rapid fire and she could only get the gist of it.
Sometimes the misunderstandings are amusing. I watch some British police
or crime shows and often the head honcho is a woman who they address as 'Ma'am'. As far as I'm concerned they are calling her Mom.
Some of the British actors also do something with 'murder'. It isn't quite 'murther' but there is more than just 'd'.--
You still need a fictional reason for the future interiors being dark,
like electricity being very expensive.
But in our reality, light sources are dirt cheap, the cost of
the electricity for lighting a house is negligible compared to heating
or cooking.
On 2025-11-01 03:52, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
The thing with fiction is, only put in enough detail as you need for
the plot, and avoid superfluous stuff that detracts from that.
Not if you are Stanley Kubrick :-)
If the goal is to have English as an universal language, teaching a
common accent makes a lot of sense.
On 31/10/2025 20:01, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 14:48:43 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Catalan is different, quite different, but it is a language on its
own.
And there are other regional languages. I can not understand a speaker
of those languages, just some words.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swabian_German
There is the 't' and 'd' shift that Lawrence mentioned for US English.
Germanic, Dutch and German and Yiddish definitely migrate 't' towards
'd' and mangle past participles. And blow 'w' into 'v'
A lot of rural immigrants were from Holland, in the past.
On 31/10/2025 20:15, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 15:03:27 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
It is the same everywhere. My sister learnt her German in Bavaria and
is quite dark skinned. People think she is Bavarian though she now
lives in central Germany.
Bavaria wasn't all that happy about joining the German Empire.
Southwest Germany is Catholic and has the Swabian dialect that sets it
off. In a way it is closer to Austria, a country that a lot of people
forget about entirely.
+1. They still are not so happy.
If the goal is to have English as an universal language, teaching a
common accent makes a lot of sense.
On 2025-10-31 20:25, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:46:12 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I am surprised that you tried to replace an incandescent with anLED
for
heating purposes. When was younger and spryer I would get on a
step-stool at this Time of Year and put up some incandescent bulbs in
the bathroom to be able to warm it up. Feel too unstable for some time >>> now to do that as being 30 inches off the floor makes me insecure.
Broken ankle does not help with that and no room for a cane.
I did not intend the LED bulb to be a space heater. A few years ago the
electric coop sent out boxes of CFL bulbs and I replaced the incandescent
bulbs with those. When CFLs went out of favor they sent out boxes of LED
bulb and I used those. They were 60 W equivalent but as my cataracts got
worse I got 100 W equivalent bulbs that also had a small slider to select
the color temperature. It was one of those that failed.
Ah, I have never seen those.
Those that I have that can control the colour temperature do so with a remote IR or radio controller; not bulbs, but large fixtures, a flat rectangle.
Maybe bulbs via WiFI? IoT?
I didn't dissect it but I don't know how a LED could pull enough current
to become very hot and not fail. Ultimately it was the switch that
failed.
For heat I use regular 1500 W space heaters. I expect my electric bill to
go up with those on but I wasn't using them in September. I also have a
hot air gas furnace but when the blower turns on it's like a 747 taking
off so I prefer electric until it gets very cold. I don't know which is
more economical. Propane isn't cheap either.
I'm preparing to move house, and the new place will have some type of AC working as a heat pump. It is the cheapest method in terms of
electricity usage. Cost of the system and repairs might nullify that.
Probably cheapest here (doesn't snow) are space heaters with butane
bottles.
RP is clarity of diction to the extent of sounding artificial.
I think I have heard on some serial address her as "sir".
That may be normal police procedure: do not touch anything, not even the lights. The light switches have to photographed and analyzed for
fingerprints or adn. Using something else to wrap your finger and then
touch the switch may actually fudge or erase the fingerprint.
On Sat, 1 Nov 2025 14:29:14 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
You still need a fictional reason for the future interiors being dark,
like electricity being very expensive.
Not really. You can often just handwave things away, or even not bother mentioning them. It’s called “artistic licence”.
Those that I have that can control the colour temperature do so with a
remote IR or radio controller; not bulbs, but large fixtures, a flat rectangle.
Maybe bulbs via WiFI? IoT?
On Sat, 1 Nov 2025 11:15:16 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:I don't have a problem with most 'th' words like 'this' 'that' or
On 31/10/2025 20:01, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 14:48:43 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Catalan is different, quite different, but it is a language on its
own.
And there are other regional languages. I can not understand a speaker >>>> of those languages, just some words.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swabian_German
There is the 't' and 'd' shift that Lawrence mentioned for US English.
Germanic, Dutch and German and Yiddish definitely migrate 't' towards
'd' and mangle past participles. And blow 'w' into 'v'
A lot of rural immigrants were from Holland, in the past.
Even in the colonial days there was a significant Dutch/German population
in the US. According to the 2000 census, which I think was the last time they asked, 27% of this state claimed German ancestry, followed by 14.8% Irish, 12.6% English, and 10.6 Norwegian. The Indians were 7.4% for some diversity.
A friend claimed the local Sons of Norway lodge was mostly Germans. They have a really nice clubhouse, might as well invade.
I won't claim it's genetic but I had a hell of a time with 'th' when I was
a kid.
On Sat, 1 Nov 2025 14:44:15 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
If the goal is to have English as an universal language, teaching a
common accent makes a lot of sense.
Good luck getting everyone to talk like Kevin Costner. He took a lot of
heat for his role in 'Robin Hood' for not even trying for a British
accent.
But remember that flames SUCK OXYGEN and GENERATE
CARBON MONOXIDE !!!
On Sat, 1 Nov 2025 14:05:24 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
RP is clarity of diction to the extent of sounding artificial.
Is that the one that doesn't have much use for the letter 'r'? In the US
we make fun of the Boston accent. "I pahked my cah in Havahd Yahd'.
On 26 Oct 2025 13:53:04 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
You shouldn't. If you hear people fighting against English words coming
into French, it means, there are French guys who are using those words.
And those words are technical words, so they are used by technical guys
because they don't have better words. But at the same time, they are
used by not technical guys who want to make look like they now their
stuff. So,
they are using those words just because they sound cool. That's not that
new. In shit, like advertisement, people were using English words
decades ago to make their speech look like it's serious when it's only
bullshit.
Do they keep the English pronunciation?
Everybody invaded/colonized everyone else in
Europe/UK so often that "foreign" words and
customs aren't worth mentioning.
Le 27-10-2025, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> a écrit :
Everybody invaded/colonized everyone else in
Europe/UK so often that "foreign" words and
customs aren't worth mentioning.
You say that because you aren't interested in history. But when someone
is interested in history, knowing where a word is coming from, when it
came in the language and why is very interesting. Your lack of interest
is only your: you are not the only one whose opinion matters. You should avoid imposing your opinion on others. I know, here the far right and
far left are very numerous, but they are equally wrong in the belief
that everyone outside of they vision should be killed.
On 11/1/25 09:38, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-31 20:25, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 30 Oct 2025 21:46:12 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I am surprised that you tried to replace an incandescent with an >>> LED
for
heating purposes. When was younger and spryer I would get on a
step-stool at this Time of Year and put up some incandescent bulbs in
the bathroom to be able to warm it up. Feel too unstable for some >>>> time
now to do that as being 30 inches off the floor makes me insecure.
Broken ankle does not help with that and no room for a cane.
I did not intend the LED bulb to be a space heater. A few years ago the
electric coop sent out boxes of CFL bulbs and I replaced the
incandescent
bulbs with those. When CFLs went out of favor they sent out boxes of LED >>> bulb and I used those. They were 60 W equivalent but as my cataracts got >>> worse I got 100 W equivalent bulbs that also had a small slider to
select
the color temperature. It was one of those that failed.
Ah, I have never seen those.
Those that I have that can control the colour temperature do so with a
remote IR or radio controller; not bulbs, but large fixtures, a flat
rectangle.
Maybe bulbs via WiFI? IoT?
Doesn't that just seem like MASSIVE over-tech/thinking ?
It's supposed to light the room decently. Pick the 5k
static color. No muss, no fuss, no remote-controls, cheap.
I didn't dissect it but I don't know how a LED could pull enough current >>> to become very hot and not fail. Ultimately it was the switch that
failed.
For heat I use regular 1500 W space heaters. I expect my electric
bill to
go up with those on but I wasn't using them in September. I also have a
hot air gas furnace but when the blower turns on it's like a 747 taking
off so I prefer electric until it gets very cold. I don't know which is >>> more economical. Propane isn't cheap either.
I'm preparing to move house, and the new place will have some type of
AC working as a heat pump. It is the cheapest method in terms of
electricity usage. Cost of the system and repairs might nullify that.
Probably cheapest here (doesn't snow) are space heaters with butane
bottles.
But remember that flames SUCK OXYGEN and GENERATE
CARBON MONOXIDE !!!
On Sat, 1 Nov 2025 14:38:01 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Those that I have that can control the colour temperature do so with a
remote IR or radio controller; not bulbs, but large fixtures, a flat
rectangle.
I have a flat fixture like that which is why I selected those bulbs. I
don't care for the 'warm white' most default to.
Maybe bulbs via WiFI? IoT?
No thanks.
I've got a portable Mr. Heater for the shed and as an emergency backup. It can take the disposable 1# bottles but I have the hose and regulator setup for a 20# or larger refillable tank.
https://www.mrheater.com/product/heaters/buddy-series.html
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