Hey All!

�Que son estos? -> � � � � � � � �

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.250)

Hey Maurice!

After viewing it at the TUXPOWER echo on Prism you hunch about it doing nothing
was correct. The characters that happen to coincide between ISO-8859-1 and CP1252 rendered perfectly but the ones that don't didn't. It does help confirm
that to BBBS LATIN-1 in all likelihood is ISO-8859-1 even though it really isn't. ;-)

For the record here is the 'iconv -f cp1252 -t utf8' of the line of interest;

¿Que son estos? -> € Š š Ž ž Œ œ Ÿ

Much better eh?

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-bonnell-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)

Hey Maurice!

Much better eh?

For sure!!! Now we're getting somewhere. Just a little more tweaking left to do.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.250)

On 2017 Jun 21 05:54:58, you wrote to All:

@MSGID: 1:153/7001.250 594a0a32
@CHARSET: CP1252
Hey All!

�Que son estos? -> ? Sh sh Zh zh oe OE Ye

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.250) SEEN-BY: 123/141 135/300 140/1 153/7001 154/10 20 30 40 700 227/201 261/38 SEEN-BY: 340/800 3634/12 15 22 24 27 50
@PATH: 153/7001 154/10 3634/12

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... An aphrodisiac and a floor wax?
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2017 Jun 21 08:06:52, you wrote to you:

@MSGID: 1:153/7001 594a291d
@REPLY: 1:153/7001.250 594a0a32
Hey Maurice!

After viewing it at the TUXPOWER echo on Prism you hunch about it doing nothing was correct. The characters that happen to coincide between ISO-8859-1 and CP1252 rendered perfectly but the ones that don't didn't. It does help confirm that to BBBS LATIN-1 in all likelihood is ISO-8859-1 even though it really isn't. ;-)

For the record here is the 'iconv -f cp1252 -t utf8' of the line of interest;

¿Que son estos? -> € Š š Ž ž Œ œ Ÿ

Much better eh?

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-bonnell-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001) SEEN-BY: 123/141 135/300 140/1 154/10 20 30 40 700 227/201 261/38 340/800 SEEN-BY: 3634/12 15 22 24 27 50
@PATH: 154/10 3634/12

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... ALWAYS tell the truth - Unless something better is handy.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hey mark!

It cannot be done in CP437. The experiment was to see what BBBS would map it out to as that would tell the tale about what LATIN-1 truly is as far as it is concerned. From what I could tell it really is ISO-8859-1 despite that LATIN-1
is *NOT* an alias for it and never was or will be. Now I read that HTML5 is replacing it with CP1252 since over 90% of users actually are using CP1252 whether or not they know that they are.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.250)

Hey mark!

MK>> ¿Que son estos? -> € Š š Ž ž Œ œ Ÿ

I am not sure you can view the above correctly but your editor flying the CP437
banner seems to be doing the correct thing by not messing with the codes. The above quote shows perfectly as UTF-8 characters as they should be. Most, if indeed not all, FTN editors get it wrong including golded so I suspect you are doing something funky there.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.250)

Hello Maurice,

On Wed Jun 21 2017 18:23:42, Maurice Kinal wrote to mark lewis:

¿Que son estos? -> € Š š Ž ž Œ œ Ÿ

I am not sure you can view the above correctly but your editor flying
the CP437 banner seems to be doing the correct thing by not messing
with the codes. The above quote shows perfectly as UTF-8 characters
as they should be. Most, if indeed not all, FTN editors get it wrong including golded so I suspect you are doing something funky there.

Third time quoted, this time with golded + nano. Looks fine to me! ;)

Regards,
Nick

... "Не знаю. Я здесь только работаю."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: thePharcyde_ distribution system (Wisconsin) (1:154/10)

Hey Maurice!

encapable of handling

Ooops! Should be 'incapable of handling'. Also we need to get used to this new-fangled way of doing text messages. It is better methinks but like the saying goes; Tough to teach an old dog new tricks.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-bonnell-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.0)

On 2017 Jun 21 18:15:36, you wrote to me:

Hey mark!

hey you! :)

It cannot be done in CP437. The experiment was to see what BBBS would
map it out to as that would tell the tale about what LATIN-1 truly is
as far as it is concerned.

i was only posting what appeared here, my friend :)

From what I could tell it really is ISO-8859-1 despite that LATIN-1 is *NOT* an alias for it and never was or will be.

i haven't even tried to go that deep on these things... not in recent posts, anyway... it seems that we're on vacation right now and i don't even know where
to try to go fishing! :lol:

Now I read that HTML5 is replacing it with CP1252 since over 90% of
users actually are using CP1252 whether or not they know that they
are.

i really don't know how i feel about this stuff... i've been trying to keep up with your postings and to understand the whys and whatfores but... i guess i should try to start some kind of FTN editor to work with this stuff... i've got
some old code available but the first thing would be to get it ported to the new FPC stuff... especially since i'm an old pascal coder ;)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Everyting should be built top-down, except the first time.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2017 Jun 21 18:23:42, you wrote to me:

¿Que son estos? -> € Š š Ž ž Œ œ Ÿ

I am not sure you can view the above correctly but your editor flying the CP437 banner seems to be doing the correct thing by not messing with the codes. The above quote shows perfectly as UTF-8 characters as they should be. Most, if indeed not all, FTN editors get it wrong including golded so I suspect you are doing something funky there.

i run my GoldEd+ in a cp437 wrapper.. this so i can properly view ""high ascii"" characters :evil grin: ;) :lol:

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Time spent laughing is time well spent.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hey mark!

i was only posting what appeared here, my friend :)

What appears isn't always what is posted. In this case it was despite what you
saw/see.

i haven't even tried to go that deep on these things

Understood. Most people don't and some that think they do still don't know.

i'm an old pascal coder

I used to be that way with fortran (f77). Them were the days.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.250)

Hey mark!

i run my GoldEd+ in a cp437 wrapper.. this so i can properly view
""high ascii"" characters

Yeah right. I'd like to see a screenshot of you viewing this message in your cp437 wrapped golded if that is possible.

€ Š š Ž ž Œ œ Ÿ

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.250)

On 2017 Jun 22 17:17:18, you wrote to me:

i run my GoldEd+ in a cp437 wrapper.. this so i can properly view
""high ascii"" characters

Yeah right.

yup... single byte 0x00 thru 0xff as IBM intended O:)

I'd like to see a screenshot of you viewing this message in your cp437 wrapped golded if that is possible.

€ Š š Ž ž Œ œ Ÿ

it looks just like quoted above ;)

4bytes 2bytes 2bytes 2bytes 2bytes 3bytes 3bytes 2bytes

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... CAMELOT: the place to shop for a used dromedary
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hey mark!

it looks just like quoted above ;)

If indeed it is CP437 then it looks nothing like it is quoted since they are utf-8 characters to a capable editor.

4bytes 2bytes 2bytes 2bytes 2bytes 3bytes 3bytes 2bytes

Nope. The first one (Euro symbol) is 3 bytes and the rest are all 2 bytes with
the leading byte - I wish they would have called it the masterbyte :::snicker::: - all being 0xc5 which makes them part of the Latin Extended-A characters. 0xc5 is a box drawing character in cp437 (aka LIGHT VERTICAL AND HORIZONTAL) and you should see exactly 7 of them if indeed your golded is cp437
wrapped.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.250)

Hey mark!

single byte 0x00 thru 0xff as IBM intended O:)

They were only one player in that scam ... errrrr ... scheme. Looks to me that
MS won that game with CP1252.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-silvermont-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Pointy Stick Society - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001.250)

On 2017 Jun 22 22:20:24, you wrote to me:

it looks just like quoted above ;)

If indeed it is CP437 then it looks nothing like it is quoted since they are utf-8 characters to a capable editor.

so dump that UTF-8 capable editor and see them how i and others saw them...

4bytes 2bytes 2bytes 2bytes 2bytes 3bytes 3bytes 2bytes

Nope. The first one (Euro symbol) is 3 bytes

they all have the byte counts i stated... i don't care what symbols or characters they are...

€

0xE2 0x7E 0x42 0xAB

Š

0xC5 0xA0

š

0xC5 0xA1

Ž

0xC5 0xBD

ž

0xC5 0xBE

Œ

0xC5 0x7E 0x52

œ

0xC5 0x75 0x53

Ÿ

0xC5 0xB8


this link is of the original message as viewed on my screen...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/acvlk6n81lgtksl/maurice%20and%20UTF-8%20stuff%20%231.png?dl=0


this link is of the original as viewed with GoldEd's "info" view which includes
hex dumps... it will really trip you out (as it did me) because it does not depict the ones with the tilde "~" as three byte entities like they are displayed...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zwvdlrn8bhrcrjq/maurice%20and%20UTF-8%20stuff%20%232.png?dl=0


have fun :)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Eat oatmeal... Turn your brains into mush.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hey mark!

they all have the byte counts i stated... i don't care what
symbols or characters they are...

Except that they are mostly wrong, both the byte counts as well as the cp437 characters displayed.

this link is of the original message as viewed on my screen...

It is wrong. The last trailing byte of the Euro symbol is correct but the leading byte as well as the other two trailing bytes are wrong, not to mention there is one too many trailing bytes. As for the other 7 it is getting the leading bytes correct (0xc5) and I am not sure about the trailing bytes. Also it seems to have missed one group of characters - I see only 7 whereas there should be 8 total - which might explain why the byte counts are wrong.

this link is of the original as viewed with GoldEd's "info" view
which includes hex dumps...

Excellent. The hex dumps are correct. The so-called CP437 characters don't all correspond to the 8 bit codes. Something is wrong.

it will really trip you out (as it did me) because it does not
depict the ones with the tilde "~" as three byte entities like
they are displayed...

Which is correct. There is no tilde "~". What is the format of the message? My best guess is there is some bad leakage being caused by binary data in the file format. I've seen that happen before.

have fun :)

I believe that is the goal. Thank you for the screenshots.

Life is good,
Maurice

... Don't cry for me I have vi.
--- GNU bash, version 4.4.12(1)-release (x86_64-bonnell-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's Brain - Ladysmith BC, Canada (1:153/7001)