• FidoNews 34:30 [02/08]: General Articles

    From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to David Drummond on Fri Jul 28 15:47:32 2017
    Hello David,

    Obsolete? - as in it will no longer display television broadcasts?

    Everything is obsolete before you buy it. Why else do you think the
    salespeople are so eager to get rid of it?

    Duh ... if the TV still receives/displays movies etc. then how is it obsolete?

    Everything is obsolete before it even leaves the showroom.
    Doesn't matter what the product is.

    Isn't the displaying of TV broadcasts what you buy the device for?

    A fool and his money ...

    All else is just marketing hype to part you from more of your money.

    There's a sucker born every minute ...

    Maybe that is why I haven't bought a TV in nearly 10 years ...

    I won a few TVs as prizes at church fairs. And a bicycle.
    Would have won a car, but I was too young to drive at the time
    and had to settle for two wheels rather than four.

    --Lee

    --
    I Take A Sheet In The Pool

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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Lee Lofaso on Sat Jul 29 08:48:28 2017
    On 28/07/2017 11:47 PM, Lee Lofaso -> David Drummond wrote:

    Duh ... if the TV still receives/displays movies etc. then how is it
    obsolete?

    Everything is obsolete before it even leaves the showroom.
    Doesn't matter what the product is.

    Please define your understanding of the word "obsolete".

    To me it means something no longer performs the task for which it was designed.

    As for being leading edge tech, I concur that new stuff is always being developed when existing stuff is sold. That does not make the existing stuff any less functional.


    --

    Regards
    David

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  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to David Drummond on Sat Jul 29 14:13:38 2017
    Hello David,

    Duh ... if the TV still receives/displays movies etc. then how is it
    obsolete?

    Everything is obsolete before it even leaves the showroom.
    Doesn't matter what the product is.

    Please define your understanding of the word "obsolete".

    Junk.

    To me it means something no longer performs the task for which it was designed.

    It was designed to perform better than what you had before.
    Which is why you bought it. But what is being sold is already
    outdated, and no longer better than new stuff ready to be sold.

    This is called "planned obsolescence".

    As for being leading edge tech, I concur that new stuff is always being developed when existing stuff is sold. That does not make the existing stuff any less functional.

    Just because something works does not make it good or better
    than what it should be.

    --Lee

    --
    Stop Workin', Start Jerkin'

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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Lee Lofaso on Sun Jul 30 06:43:18 2017
    On 29/07/2017 10:13 PM, Lee Lofaso -> David Drummond wrote:

    As for being leading edge tech, I concur that new stuff is always being
    developed when existing stuff is sold. That does not make the existing
    stuff any less functional.

    Just because something works does not make it good or better
    than what it should be.

    As long as it performs the task it was purchased/intended to do ....

    My "dumb" TV still receives/displays TV signals.

    --

    Regards
    David

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  • From Kurt Weiske@1:218/700 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Jul 30 08:48:20 2017
    Re: FidoNews 34:30 [02/08]: General Articles
    By: Michiel van der Vlist to Bjrn Felten on Wed Jul 26 2017 07:50 pm

    If your firewall is configured properly an intruder won't get access from outside. But what if the evil is already in? Rumour has it that some of these smart TVs "phone home" at regular intervals...

    Companies have used egress filtering for years. I'd like a home router that logs outgoing traffic to see exactly what's going outside my network.
    --- SBBSecho 3.00-Win32
    * Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to David Drummond on Wed Aug 2 00:09:28 2017
    Hello David,

    As for being leading edge tech, I concur that new stuff is always being
    developed when existing stuff is sold. That does not make the existing
    stuff any less functional.

    Just because something works does not make it good or better
    than what it should be.

    As long as it performs the task it was purchased/intended to do ....

    The Saints quarterback still performs the task he was hired to do ...

    My "dumb" TV still receives/displays TV signals.

    The owner of the Saints just bought the Dixie beer company, in hopes
    of getting Saints fans too drunk to notice or care if the team wins or
    loses ...

    --Lee

    --
    Our Nuts, Your Mouth

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  • From FidoNews Robot@2:2/2 to All on Mon Jul 24 00:20:42 2017
    =================================================================
    GENERAL ARTICLES =================================================================

    TV without IPv6
    By Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)


    Two weeks ago, I bought a new TV. My almost 20 year old TV with 70 cm
    CRT finally let go of all its smoke and after watching on a 35 cm
    portable for a while I decided it was time for something new. So after
    some scouting, comparing specs and prices, my choice fell on a SAMSUNG UE40KU6020. One meter screen, 4K resolution, build in DVB-C, DVB-S and
    DVB-T2 decoder and lots more. I have been watching the Tour the France
    in HD for the first time on a big screen and I love it.

    There is one thing I overlooked.

    Eight years ago, I told myself not to buy any more new network
    equipment that does not support IPv6. I haven't bought any new IPv4
    only stuff in eight years. And then two weeks ago I sinned. Only to
    discover it after the fact. When I connected my new TV to the coax
    cable and started the setup procedure, to my surprise, it asked for
    the WPA2 key of my WLAN. Apparently it found my WiFi and wanted an
    internet connection. In hindsight, it makes sense. It is a smart TV.
    It uses an internet connection for the ancillery features. It all
    works as advertised. It even has a build in web browser.


    Just one thing: no IPv6.

    It never occured to me this was one of the things I had to check when
    making my choice.

    It is not a matter of life and death. Everything works as advertised,
    so I am not going to bring it back to the vendor. But I will make a
    note to self that in future I will have to check every piece of
    electronics for IPv6 capability. Even stuff that does not qualify as
    "network equipment" at first glance. These days everything seems to
    be connected, so everything needs to be schecked for IPv6 capability.


    I will not bring it back. But one of these days I will write a letter
    to Samsung, asking them for a firmware upgrade including IPv6.
    Because 17 years into the 21th century, IPv4 only is not "state of
    the art".



    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    --- Azure/NewsPrep 3.0
    * Origin: Home of the Fidonews (2:2/2.0)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Jul 24 15:58:30 2017
    Hello Michiel,

    GENERAL ARTICLES

    TV without IPv6
    By Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)


    Two weeks ago, I bought a new TV. My almost 20 year old TV with 70 cm
    CRT finally let go of all its smoke and after watching on a 35 cm
    portable for a while I decided it was time for something new. So after some scouting, comparing specs and prices, my choice fell on a SAMSUNG UE40KU6020. One meter screen, 4K resolution, build in DVB-C, DVB-S and DVB-T2 decoder and lots more. I have been watching the Tour the France
    in HD for the first time on a big screen and I love it.

    There is one thing I overlooked.

    The SUHD TV you bought is obsolete and has been replaced by
    the newer QLED range.

    Eight years ago, I told myself not to buy any more new network
    equipment that does not support IPv6. I haven't bought any new IPv4
    only stuff in eight years. And then two weeks ago I sinned. Only to discover it after the fact. When I connected my new TV to the coax
    cable and started the setup procedure, to my surprise, it asked for
    the WPA2 key of my WLAN. Apparently it found my WiFi and wanted an internet connection. In hindsight, it makes sense. It is a smart TV.
    It uses an internet connection for the ancillery features. It all
    works as advertised. It even has a build in web browser.


    Just one thing: no IPv6.

    The newer QLED range of Samsung sets do. Check these out -

    Samsung Q9F
    Samsung curved Q8C
    Samsung Q7 (both flat and curved models)

    It never occured to me this was one of the things I had to check when making my choice.

    Idioot.

    It is not a matter of life and death. Everything works as advertised,
    so I am not going to bring it back to the vendor. But I will make a
    note to self that in future I will have to check every piece of electronics for IPv6 capability. Even stuff that does not qualify as "network equipment" at first glance. These days everything seems to
    be connected, so everything needs to be schecked for IPv6 capability.

    Fuggetaboutit. Go buy a new QLED set. You can thank me later.

    I will not bring it back. But one of these days I will write a letter
    to Samsung, asking them for a firmware upgrade including IPv6.
    Because 17 years into the 21th century, IPv4 only is not "state of
    the art".

    There is also the Panasonic EZ1002. Just be sure to look before
    you buy, so as to know what you are getting. This model is the
    new flagship for Panasonic. Previous models are obsolete. Just
    like the Samsung model you chanced to buy.

    --Lee

    --
    Your Hole Is Our Goal

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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Lee Lofaso on Tue Jul 25 08:47:46 2017
    On 24/07/2017 11:58 PM, Lee Lofaso -> Michiel van der Vlist wrote:

    I will not bring it back. But one of these days I will write a letter
    to Samsung, asking them for a firmware upgrade including IPv6.
    Because 17 years into the 21th century, IPv4 only is not "state of
    the art".

    There is also the Panasonic EZ1002. Just be sure to look before
    you buy, so as to know what you are getting. This model is the
    new flagship for Panasonic. Previous models are obsolete. Just
    like the Samsung model you chanced to buy.

    Obsolete? - as in it will no longer display television broadcasts?

    Isn't the displaying of TV broadcasts what you buy the device for? All else is just marketing hype to part you from more of your money.

    --

    Regards
    David

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    * Origin: USA - a legend in its own mind. (3:640/305)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to David Drummond on Tue Jul 25 02:58:32 2017
    Isn't the displaying of TV broadcasts what you buy the device for?

    For at least me it isn't. I don't give a shit about what my TV companies provide for me. I don't even have a TV antenna connected to any of my three SmartTVs.

    I use my TVs entirely for Netflix, Youtube, my saved files on my NAT and the
    various other services that are offered to me via my SmartTV apps via internet.

    You really should try it if you can, it's really addictive.



    ..

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Mike Miller on Tue Jul 25 13:41:00 2017
    Mike Miller wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-

    You really should try it if you can, it's really addictive.
    I have a similar setup, but it involves a 27TB Network storage server
    that has hundreds of TV series in their entirety, and many hundreds of movies in glorious 1080p (some even in 4k!).

    Nice setup, not sure how much storage we'd need here, but it's a safe bet that 27TB would be _way_ too small! :) Rely mainly on old fashioned DVDs here. A suitable media server would be quite expensive. An alternative approach would be to put the "high rotation" (i.e. regularly played) movies and series onto a media server and leave the rest on DVD. That would save a ton of storage and make the most watched stuff easily available.

    So, what are you using hardware wise?

    I play everything through a great media player system called "Plex"
    that has apps on just about every device you can think of. I can even stream data over the internet via plex to my phone, or the smart TV at
    my cottage.

    Plex seems popular. Have it here, but haven't actually used it.


    ... Average is as close to the bottom as it is to the top.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    * Origin: Freeway BBS - freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Mike Miller on Wed Jul 26 07:48:00 2017
    Mike Miller wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

    An older Dell server, dual CPU (4 cores each) with 16gb ram. It runs a system based on Slackware called "unraid". You can add more disks at
    any time to expand the storage. It keeps one disk for parity, so you
    can safely lose a disk and the system will keep running (and it will rebuild the disk when replaced)

    Sounds like a nice setup. The biggest question I would have is power consumption. Unfortunately, that's a major issue here (and getting worse). But I like the concept. And the server being Linux based fits in well here. Haven't used Slack in years, but I remember it as a great distro.

    27TB of space will hold 5882 DVDs worth of data, by the way. Or 552 Raw blu-ray disks. Movies rarely take up all the space, and a good, high quality compression format will squeeze them down to half the size or less.

    Yep, way too small! Passed that point many years ago! :) And yes, there are much more efficient compression formats around, already make a fair bit of use of those, but for the stuff still on native DVD format, yep, there would be a conversion to come.

    Plex seems popular. Have it here, but haven't actually used it.
    It's worth paying for, around $40 USD a year, or about $120 USD for a lifetime subscription.

    Will give it some thought. Got decent broadband here, so streaming stuff out of here is certainly practical now. Food for thought, just have to see if the cost stacks up. :)


    ... Sir, the Romulans do not take prisoners!
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  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Bjrn Felten on Wed Jul 26 20:25:54 2017
    On 25/07/2017 10:58 AM, 2:203/2 wrote:
    Isn't the displaying of TV broadcasts what you buy the device for?

    For at least me it isn't. I don't give a shit about what my TV companies provide for me. I don't even have a TV antenna connected to
    any of my three SmartTVs.

    I use my TVs entirely for Netflix, Youtube, my saved files on my NAT and the various other services that are offered to me via my SmartTV
    apps via internet.

    You really should try it if you can, it's really addictive.

    I do not have a "smart" TV and most likely will not obtain one any time soon.

    --

    Regards
    David

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    * Origin: USA - a legend in its own mind. (3:640/305)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/384 to David Drummond on Wed Jul 26 20:39:00 2017
    Hi! David,

    In a message to Bjrn Felten you wrote:

    You really should try it if you can, it's really
    addictive.

    I do not have a "smart" TV and most likely will not obtain
    one any time soon.

    I recently saw a cyber warfare show on the Aussie ABC which included a 10 minute segment on "the internet of things", and was glad that I had disconnected our Sony smart TV from the LAN yonks ago. BTW, that is a popular search term on EwwToob.

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    --- Paul's Win98SE VirtualBox
    * Origin: Quinn's Post - Maryborough, Queensland, OZ (3:640/384)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Bjrn Felten on Wed Jul 26 12:46:46 2017
    Hello Bjrn,

    On Tuesday July 25 2017 02:58, you wrote to David Drummond:

    I don't even have a TV antenna connected to any of my three SmartTVs.

    Do any of the three do IPv6?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Bjrn Felten@2:203/2 to Paul Quinn on Wed Jul 26 18:48:38 2017
    and was glad that I had disconnected our Sony smart TV from the LAN
    yonks ago.

    LAN as in 192.168.x.x IP numbers all over? Do you expect that an intruder can access all the vital information you have stored in your TV? 8-)



    ..

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  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Bjrn Felten on Wed Jul 26 19:50:18 2017
    Hello Bjrn,

    On Wednesday July 26 2017 18:48, you wrote to Paul Quinn:

    and was glad that I had disconnected our Sony smart TV from the
    LAN yonks ago.

    LAN as in 192.168.x.x IP numbers all over? Do you expect that an intruder can access all the vital information you have stored in your
    TV? 8-)

    If your firewall is configured properly an intruder won't get access from outside. But what if the evil is already in? Rumour has it that some of these smart TVs "phone home" at regular intervals...


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Paul Quinn@3:640/1384 to Björn Felten on Thu Jul 27 08:14:10 2017
    Hi! Björn,

    On 07/27/2017 02:48 AM, you wrote:

    and was glad that I had disconnected our Sony smart TV from the LAN
    yonks ago.

    LAN as in 192.168.x.x IP numbers all over? Do you expect that an intruder can access all the vital information you have stored in your
    TV? 8-)

    Yes, and other subnets. And, yes, and also how such devices can be used against you. I suggest that you investigate the cyber-warfare/crime implications resulting from an 'internet of things', before you pass judgement on my mere messenger role on this subject.

    Cheers,
    Paul.

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
    * Origin: Quinn's Rock vBox - sunny side up on the bookcase (3:640/1384)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Bjrn Felten on Thu Jul 27 10:10:00 2017
    Bjrn Felten wrote to Paul Quinn <=-

    LAN as in 192.168.x.x IP numbers all over? Do you expect that an intruder can access all the vital information you have stored in your
    TV? 8-)

    Can be done - DNS spoofing, or worm infestation (say of a Windows box on the same network) that attacks the TV and recruits it to a botnet. Often processing power and network resources are what the criminals want from you, and any network connected deevice can provide those. And all the worm has to do is try common logins for IoT devices, until it succeeds, or runs out of combinations to try.


    ... It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    * Origin: Freeway BBS - freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Tony Langdon@3:633/410 to Michiel van der Vlist on Thu Jul 27 10:13:00 2017
    Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Bjrn Felten <=-

    If your firewall is configured properly an intruder won't get access
    from outside. But what if the evil is already in? Rumour has it that
    some of these smart TVs "phone home" at regular intervals...

    Yep, many ways to get evil code inside the LAN - Windows boxes are one such vector, since it's easy to use phishing attacks to get malware onto them, where they can then go out and search for smart TVs and other IoT devices nearby. Often simply changing from default passwords (and logins where possible) will stop those bots from getting in.


    ... Mufflers don't die. They just get exhausted.
    --- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
    * Origin: Freeway BBS - freeway.apana.org.au (3:633/410)
  • From Lee Lofaso@2:203/2 to David Drummond on Thu Jul 27 05:44:18 2017
    Hello David,

    I will not bring it back. But one of these days I will write a letter
    to Samsung, asking them for a firmware upgrade including IPv6.
    Because 17 years into the 21th century, IPv4 only is not "state of
    the art".

    There is also the Panasonic EZ1002. Just be sure to look before
    you buy, so as to know what you are getting. This model is the
    new flagship for Panasonic. Previous models are obsolete. Just
    like the Samsung model you chanced to buy.

    Obsolete? - as in it will no longer display television broadcasts?

    Everything is obsolete before you buy it. Why else do you think the salespeople are so eager to get rid of it?

    Isn't the displaying of TV broadcasts what you buy the device for?

    A fool and his money ...

    All else is just marketing hype to part you from more of your money.

    There's a sucker born every minute ...

    --Lee

    --
    Get Her Wet Here

    ---
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
    http://www.avg.com

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    * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
  • From David Drummond@3:640/305 to Lee Lofaso on Thu Jul 27 14:53:58 2017
    On 27/07/2017 1:44 PM, Lee Lofaso -> David Drummond wrote:

    Obsolete? - as in it will no longer display television broadcasts?

    Everything is obsolete before you buy it. Why else do you think the salespeople are so eager to get rid of it?

    Duh ... if the TV still receives/displays movies etc. then how is it obsolete?

    Isn't the displaying of TV broadcasts what you buy the device for?

    A fool and his money ...

    All else is just marketing hype to part you from more of your money.

    There's a sucker born every minute ...

    Maybe that is why I haven't bought a TV in nearly 10 years ...

    --

    Regards
    David

    --- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.8.0
    * Origin: USA - a legend in its own mind. (3:640/305)