• Re: Browser for Older OS and Older Users

    From Snuffy-Hub-Cap@Livebait-McKinney.co@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:19 2019
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    From: "Snuffy \"Hub Cap\" McKinney" <Snuffy-Hub-Cap@Livebait-McKinney.com> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general References: <mJidnSXuYZicRtXInZ2dnUU7-eWdnZ2d@earthlink.com> <cqsleiFpu0pU1@mid.individual.net>
    Subject: Re: Browser for Older OS and Older Users
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    "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message news:cqsleiFpu0pU1@mid.individual.net...
    Snuffy McKinney wrote:

    Sorry, I know this is for XP -- can't find any other groups on older
    OS's.

    microsoft.public.win2000.general
    alt.os.windows2000

    Anyone recommend a browser for Win 2000 more functional than IE6 or
    Firefox 12.

    Google Chrome
    https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95346?hl=en
    Only goes back to Windows XP, and only until the end of this year when
    Google will discard support for Windows XP. I suspect when Google drops Windows XP that other web browsers will, too.

    https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-no-longer-works-windows-2000 Yep, Mozilla dropped support for Windows 2000 so all you can use are
    their really old versions. Firefox 12 is about 2-1/2 years old. Of
    course, Windows 2000 is over 15 years old with mainstream support dead
    10 years ago and extended support dead 5 years ago.

    As to finding web browsers that claim they still support Windows 2000:

    http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements
    That says Seamonkey still supports Windows 2000.

    http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Browsers/Maxthon-3.shtml
    Could not find system requirements for Maxthon Cloud or even their older versions at the Maxthon site other than supports [all] versions of
    Windows (which is not true since 9x-based versions of Windows are not included). There is a wiki for Maxthon but it has not been updated for
    6 years. The following download site says Windows 2000 is supported: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Browsers/Maxthon-3.shtml.

    http://www.avantbrowser.com/support.aspx#systemreq
    Says it supports all the way back to Windows NT (probably means NT 4).

    Just because web browsers support Windows 2000 doesn't mean sites will
    accept connections from those web browsers. Rather than test a web
    browsing client for its capabilities, many sites still use the User
    Agent string sent by the web browser to determine if the site will work
    with that web browser. Sites will often list only a certain range of
    web browsers and their versions by looking at the UA string sent by the client. If the client's UA string isn't in their list, they may limit
    or restrict access to their site. I don't know what UA string is sent
    by Maxthon or Avant Browser. Those clients might have their own UA
    string or they might send a UA string representing an old version of IE
    or Firefox (or for whichever rendering engine is in use at the time).
    There are add-ons (for some web browsers) that lets you send a different
    UA string to lie to sites that use the UA string to determine if they
    allow your web browser to [fully] use their site; however, lying about
    which web browser connected to them will not magically create functions
    that are missing in your client that a site may rely upon.

    Thanks VLH!! Very much appreciated. This will be a stopgap measure to keep their computer going unitl I can find the simplest way to get them upgraded with only non-technical people around to help. "Put plug A into slot B", etc... This is actually the way computers should work for everyone.

    Especially as times goes on, average folks are getting less and less technically savvy. In the old timey days when folks lived on farms, they could
    do everything themselves. Now if someone pulls a sock into the vacuum cleaner it goes to the repair shop.

    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From rowlett@cloud85.net@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:19 2019
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    Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 06:22:48 -0500
    From: Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net>
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    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general Subject: Re: Browser for Older OS and Older Users
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    Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney wrote:
    "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
    news:cqsleiFpu0pU1@mid.individual.net...
    Snuffy McKinney wrote:

    Sorry, I know this is for XP -- can't find any other groups on older
    OS's.

    microsoft.public.win2000.general
    alt.os.windows2000

    Anyone recommend a browser for Win 2000 more functional than IE6 or
    Firefox 12.

    Google Chrome
    https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95346?hl=en
    Only goes back to Windows XP, and only until the end of this year when
    Google will discard support for Windows XP. I suspect when Google drops
    Windows XP that other web browsers will, too.

    https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-no-longer-works-windows-2000
    Yep, Mozilla dropped support for Windows 2000 so all you can use are
    their really old versions. Firefox 12 is about 2-1/2 years old. Of
    course, Windows 2000 is over 15 years old with mainstream support dead
    10 years ago and extended support dead 5 years ago.

    As to finding web browsers that claim they still support Windows 2000:

    http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements
    That says SeaMonkey still supports Windows 2000.

    http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Browsers/Maxthon-3.shtml
    Could not find system requirements for Maxthon Cloud or even their older
    versions at the Maxthon site other than supports [all] versions of
    Windows (which is not true since 9x-based versions of Windows are not
    included). There is a wiki for Maxthon but it has not been updated for
    6 years. The following download site says Windows 2000 is supported:
    http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Browsers/Maxthon-3.shtml.

    http://www.avantbrowser.com/support.aspx#systemreq
    Says it supports all the way back to Windows NT (probably means NT 4).

    Just because web browsers support Windows 2000 doesn't mean sites will
    accept connections from those web browsers. Rather than test a web
    browsing client for its capabilities, many sites still use the User
    Agent string sent by the web browser to determine if the site will work
    with that web browser. Sites will often list only a certain range of
    web browsers and their versions by looking at the UA string sent by the
    client. If the client's UA string isn't in their list, they may limit
    or restrict access to their site. I don't know what UA string is sent
    by Maxthon or Avant Browser. Those clients might have their own UA
    string or they might send a UA string representing an old version of IE
    or Firefox (or for whichever rendering engine is in use at the time).
    There are add-ons (for some web browsers) that lets you send a different
    UA string to lie to sites that use the UA string to determine if they
    allow your web browser to [fully] use their site; however, lying about
    which web browser connected to them will not magically create functions
    that are missing in your client that a site may rely upon.

    Thanks VLH!! Very much appreciated. This will be a stopgap measure to keep
    their computer going unitl I can find the simplest way to get them upgraded with only non-technical people around to help. "Put plug A into slot B", etc... This is actually the way computers should work for everyone.

    Especially as times goes on, average folks are getting less and less
    technically savvy. In the old timey days when folks lived on farms, they could
    do everything themselves. Now if someone pulls a sock into the vacuum cleaner it goes to the repair shop.



    Just as a reality check.
    I'm happily using SeaMonkey 2.26.1 on WinXP Pro SP3 .
    I've never bothered to play with the UA string.

    I recommend following discussion of the last couple of SeaMonkey
    releases on mozilla.support.seamonkey (server is
    news.mozilla.org). I've noticed some grumbling about glitches in
    last couple of releases - I've not followed it closely as I'm
    obviously not one needing the "latest and greatest" doodads ;)

    P.S. I was born when rationing was current events.


    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From not@mail.invalid@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:19 2019
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    From: Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid>
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    On 05/05/2015 07:21 PM, Snuffy "Hub Cap" McKinney wrote:

    [snip]

    http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements
    That says Seamonkey still supports Windows 2000.

    That appears to be an old page. The current version of Seamonkey does
    NOT work on w2k.

    As I expected, the changes (that make the new version incompatible with
    w2k) are in the Gecko browser engine so would apply to any browser using it.

    I just tried it to verify this. Seamonkey (latest version) puts up an
    error message saying it requires at least XP SP2. The last version of Seamonkey that supports w2k is from same time as the last version of
    Firefox that supports w2k.

    [snip]

    --
    Mark Lloyd
    http://notstupid.us/

    "The worst of madmen is a saint run mad" [Alexander Pope]
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From V@nguard.LH@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:19 2019
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    From: VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general Subject: Re: Browser for Older OS and Older Users
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    Richard Owlett wrote:

    Snuffy McKinney wrote:

    VanguardLH wrote ...

    Snuffy McKinney wrote:

    Anyone recommend a browser for Win 2000 more functional than IE6 or
    Firefox 12.

    http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements
    http://www.softpedia.com/get/Internet/Browsers/Maxthon-3.shtml
    http://www.avantbrowser.com/support.aspx#systemreq

    Just because web browsers support Windows 2000 doesn't mean sites will
    accept connections from those web browsers. Rather than test a web
    browsing client for its capabilities, many sites still use the User
    Agent string sent by the web browser to determine if the site will work
    with that web browser.

    This will be a stopgap measure to keep their computer going unitl I
    can find the simplest way to get them upgraded with only
    non-technical people around to help.

    I'm happily using SeaMonkey 2.26.1 on WinXP Pro SP3 .
    I've never bothered to play with the UA string.

    http://www.useragentstring.com/pages/SeaMonkey/

    Looks like Seamonkey reveals the OS and version on which it runs.

    http://www.useragentstring.com/SeaMonkey2.0.6_id_16087.php

    Shows Seamonkey's UA string shows Windows 2000 as the client's OS
    version. So a site can still decide whether or not to let connect a
    client running on that OS. Personal experience is limited as to
    ascertaining if sites will allow the OP's customers to connect or not.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From V@nguard.LH@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:19 2019
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    From: VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general Subject: Re: Browser for Older OS and Older Users
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    Mark Lloyd wrote:

    VanguardLH (not Snuffy McKinney) wrote:

    http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/2.0/system-requirements
    That says Seamonkey still supports Windows 2000.

    That appears to be an old page. The current version of Seamonkey does
    NOT work on w2k.

    As I expected, the changes (that make the new version incompatible with
    w2k) are in the Gecko browser engine so would apply to any browser using it.

    I just tried it to verify this. Seamonkey (latest version) puts up an
    error message saying it requires at least XP SP2. The last version of Seamonkey that supports w2k is from same time as the last version of
    Firefox that supports w2k.

    They need to update their documentation page(s); else, they mislead
    their [prospective] users.

    http://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/system-requirements

    That page has support starting from Windows XP SP2. So it looks like
    Maxthon and Avant Browser are left for use on Windows 2000. I didn't
    bother researching all the minor variants of web browsers.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From V@nguard.LH@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:19 2019
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    From: VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general Subject: Re: Browser for Older OS and Older Users
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    Snuffy McKinney wrote:

    Especially as times goes on, average folks are getting less and less technically savvy. In the old timey days when folks lived on farms,
    they could do everything themselves. Now if someone pulls a sock into
    the vacuum cleaner it goes to the repair shop.

    In the old timey days, personal computers cost from $2500 to $8000. So hobbyists with lots of spare cash were buying PCs, not boobs that think computers are like washing machines. With that huge layout of money,
    you damn well took the time to learn how to be an expert admin. Back
    then, a high-end VCR cost $900 so you learned how to use it versus the
    $20 DVD players of today made for simpletons.

    Saturating the market means reaching ignorant consumers.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From rogblake@iname.invalid@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:19 2019
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    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general Subject: Re: Browser for Older OS and Older Users
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    On 2015-05-06, VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
    Saturating the market means reaching ignorant consumers.

    I've given up suggesting that people should know what the hell they
    are doing, it's just met with squawking about elitism, etc. Idiocracy
    is our future.

    -- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

    NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From V@nguard.LH@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:19 2019
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    From: VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH>
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support,alt.windows7.general Subject: Re: Browser for Older OS and Older Users
    Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 22:59:44 -0500
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    Roger Blake wrote:

    VanguardLH wrote:

    Saturating the market means reaching ignorant consumers.

    I've given up suggesting that people should know what the hell they
    are doing, it's just met with squawking about elitism, etc. Idiocracy
    is our future.

    Texting and social sites are destroying content. No contemplation, no
    review before send, nothing much important but just a bunch of short
    inane scribbles, and the Pavlov response of having to immediately reply.
    Ooh, got a text, have to reply now while ignoring everyone around them
    with whom they're supposed to be socializing. They're becoming isolated anti-socials despite the pretense that they're communicationg with
    someone. They won't call the other party and actually talk with them
    because their speech and cognitive abilities are horrible.

    Father Guido Sarducci's "5 Minute University" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLAd4NzuqYM

    Sad is that he wasn't that far off.
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From rlamont@shaw.ca@1:124/5013 to All on Thu Jan 31 19:14:19 2019
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    On 5/6/2015 10:59 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    Roger Blake wrote:

    VanguardLH wrote:

    Saturating the market means reaching ignorant consumers.

    I've given up suggesting that people should know what the hell they
    are doing, it's just met with squawking about elitism, etc. Idiocracy
    is our future.

    Texting and social sites are destroying content. No contemplation, no
    review before send, nothing much important but just a bunch of short
    inane scribbles, and the Pavlov response of having to immediately reply.
    Ooh, got a text, have to reply now while ignoring everyone around them
    with whom they're supposed to be socializing. They're becoming isolated anti-socials despite the pretense that they're communicationg with
    someone. They won't call the other party and actually talk with them
    because their speech and cognitive abilities are horrible.

    Father Guido Sarducci's "5 Minute University" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLAd4NzuqYM

    Sad is that he wasn't that far off.



    You're so right VangurdLH, The cellphone and texting are the most Stupid antyisocial things ever invented.


    Regards, Rene
    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)