• Re: Alternative solution - was [Re: Manually setting a STATIC IP inWin

    From address@not.available@1:124/5013 to All on Fri Jan 18 13:09:10 2019
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    From: "R.Wieser" <address@not.available>
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
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    Subject: Re: Alternative solution - was [Re: Manually setting a STATIC IP inWinXPPro]
    Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2017 20:09:10 +0100
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    Richard,

    *NO*
    ....
    A "null-modem" connects two DTE or two DCE together.

    As you feel that strong about it I googled to have some backup for what I assumed to be true, and came across this page:

    http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/1EE0DD8AF67922FA86256F720071DECF

    It shows that the so-called "null-modem" cable is to connect a two devices
    of the _same type_ together (in other words: crossing the TXD and RXD
    wires), and the "straight thru" to connect a DCE to a DTE.

    To be honest, I have allways though of a "null modem" cable as being the one with just TXD and RXD (and ground ofcourse) connected to the other machine (regardless of if it was of the same, or opposite type), with the control
    lines connected back to their counterparts on the same connector.

    So, it looks like we both made a mistake. :-)

    P.S. I've been using null modems for >50 years ;}

    I have been using them, and others of its kind for quite a while too, and
    have even been known to solder a few myself. Regardless our time that we
    used them, we both seem to have misremembered.

    Also, age has little meaning on the "interwebz". Knowledge is the only
    thing that counts here. :-)

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser

    P.s.
    More of the same: https://www.decisivetactics.com/support/view?article=crossover-or-null-modem -vs-straight-through-serial-cable

    http://www.zytrax.com/tech/layer_1/cables/tech_rs232.htm

    http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/cable.html

    All show a "null modem" cable to connect two devices of the same type.

    I'm not sure how you ...
    Scratch that. I notice all your links are to the same source.


    -- Origional message:
    Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> schreef in berichtnieuws GNqdncrpM4GpA-LFnZ2dnUU7-WXNnZ2d@supernews.com...
    On 1/18/2017 9:23 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
    Richard,

    The minimal network was being pursued as it was a close as
    I *HAD THOUGHT* I could come to a "null modem cable".

    Thats the "cross over" cable I mentioned* :-)

    *although a null-modem cable normally includes cross-over, it does need
    to.

    *NO*
    A "cross over" cable connects two Ethernet ports. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-dependent_interface#Auto_MDI-X

    A "null-modem" connects two DTE or two DCE together. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_circuit-terminating_equipment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_terminal_equipment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_modem

    IOW connect COM ports of two computers to each other.

    P.S. I've been using null modems for >50 years ;}
    Ethernet is only ~30 years old.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet




    But its still a good idea to first connect to a known-to-be-good device
    (the
    modem or smart switch (or anything else with a web-accessible setup) I mentioned) so that you can see your fixed IP actually works (on both 'puters), _before_ you try that cross-over cable (I'm not sure you
    realize,
    but now you've introduced a _third_ location that could give you
    troubles
    with setting up such a 'puter-to-'puter connection).

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    -- Origional question.
    Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> schreef in berichtnieuws LZydneiMicXqHOLFnZ2dnUU7-XnNnZ2d@supernews.com...
    On 1/16/2017 7:47 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
    I have two Lenovo laptops. One running WinXP Pro. The other runs
    Linux.
    I wish to create a minimal network. It will consist of only those
    two machines.
    Neither will have any internet connectivity.

    I've found a number of web references to setting static IP
    addresses on Windows machines.
    *HOWEVER* assume internet connectivity by one/both machines.

    Can anyone point me to any documentation EXPLICITLY covering my
    {admittedly} peculiar requirement.

    TIA

    The minimal network was being pursued as it was a close as I *HAD
    THOUGHT* I could come to a "null modem cable".
    A USB implementation is available -
    http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/163/DS_USBNMC-5030.pdf .
    I'll check local suppliers.
    Will also continue pursuing the LAN solution for its educational
    value.




    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)
  • From address@not.available@1:124/5013 to All on Sat Jan 19 01:52:00 2019
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    From: "R.Wieser" <address@not.available>
    Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support
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    Subject: Re: Alternative solution - was [Re: Manually setting a STATIC IP inWinXPPro]
    Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 08:52:00 +0100
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    Addendum,

    I just re-read my post and see I didn't make my self too clear (excuse of
    the day: It was late when I wrote it), I should have quoted an additional
    line:

    *NO*
    A "cross over" cable connects two Ethernet ports.
    ....
    A "null-modem" connects two DTE or two DCE together.

    Those cables have the _exact same_ function, one for serial, the other for ethernet.

    And if I may point something else out, the phrase "connects two Ethernet
    ports" is non-informative. Like if you would have used "two serial ports"
    in the second.

    Also consider that for ethernet all 'puters are comparable to DTEs from the serial-port case, with the modems, hubs and switches taking the place of
    DCEs. Maybe that makes it easier to see how both cables are effectivily the same.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    -- Origional message:
    R.Wieser <address@not.available> schreef in berichtnieuws 587fbc47$0$21546$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
    Richard,

    *NO*
    ...
    A "null-modem" connects two DTE or two DCE together.

    As you feel that strong about it I googled to have some backup for what I assumed to be true, and came across this page:

    http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/1EE0DD8AF67922FA86256F720071DECF

    It shows that the so-called "null-modem" cable is to connect a two devices
    of the _same type_ together (in other words: crossing the TXD and RXD
    wires), and the "straight thru" to connect a DCE to a DTE.

    To be honest, I have allways though of a "null modem" cable as being the
    one
    with just TXD and RXD (and ground ofcourse) connected to the other machine (regardless of if it was of the same, or opposite type), with the control lines connected back to their counterparts on the same connector.

    So, it looks like we both made a mistake. :-)

    P.S. I've been using null modems for >50 years ;}

    I have been using them, and others of its kind for quite a while too, and have even been known to solder a few myself. Regardless our time that we used them, we both seem to have misremembered.

    Also, age has little meaning on the "interwebz". Knowledge is the only thing that counts here. :-)

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser

    P.s.
    More of the same:

    https://www.decisivetactics.com/support/view?article=crossover-or-null-modem
    -vs-straight-through-serial-cable

    http://www.zytrax.com/tech/layer_1/cables/tech_rs232.htm

    http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/cable.html

    All show a "null modem" cable to connect two devices of the same type.

    I'm not sure how you ...
    Scratch that. I notice all your links are to the same source.


    -- Origional message:
    Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> schreef in berichtnieuws GNqdncrpM4GpA-LFnZ2dnUU7-WXNnZ2d@supernews.com...
    On 1/18/2017 9:23 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
    Richard,

    The minimal network was being pursued as it was a close as
    I *HAD THOUGHT* I could come to a "null modem cable".

    Thats the "cross over" cable I mentioned* :-)

    *although a null-modem cable normally includes cross-over, it does
    need
    to.

    *NO*
    A "cross over" cable connects two Ethernet ports. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-dependent_interface#Auto_MDI-X

    A "null-modem" connects two DTE or two DCE together. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_circuit-terminating_equipment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_terminal_equipment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_modem

    IOW connect COM ports of two computers to each other.

    P.S. I've been using null modems for >50 years ;}
    Ethernet is only ~30 years old.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet




    But its still a good idea to first connect to a known-to-be-good
    device
    (the
    modem or smart switch (or anything else with a web-accessible setup) I mentioned) so that you can see your fixed IP actually works (on both 'puters), _before_ you try that cross-over cable (I'm not sure you
    realize,
    but now you've introduced a _third_ location that could give you
    troubles
    with setting up such a 'puter-to-'puter connection).

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    -- Origional question.
    Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> schreef in berichtnieuws LZydneiMicXqHOLFnZ2dnUU7-XnNnZ2d@supernews.com...
    On 1/16/2017 7:47 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:
    I have two Lenovo laptops. One running WinXP Pro. The other runs
    Linux.
    I wish to create a minimal network. It will consist of only those
    two machines.
    Neither will have any internet connectivity.

    I've found a number of web references to setting static IP
    addresses on Windows machines.
    *HOWEVER* assume internet connectivity by one/both machines.

    Can anyone point me to any documentation EXPLICITLY covering my
    {admittedly} peculiar requirement.

    TIA

    The minimal network was being pursued as it was a close as I *HAD
    THOUGHT* I could come to a "null modem cable".
    A USB implementation is available -
    http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/163/DS_USBNMC-5030.pdf .
    I'll check local suppliers.
    Will also continue pursuing the LAN solution for its educational
    value.






    --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.1
    * Origin: Prison Board BBS Mesquite Tx //telnet.RDFIG.NET www. (1:124/5013)