• Male Single Parenting

    From Damon Getsman@1:2320/100 to Daryl Stout on Tue Dec 31 23:04:02 2013
    Re: Re: Male Single Parenting
    By: Daryl Stout to Nancy Backus on Sun Dec 29 2013 01:00:04

    Chicken pox at 20 ruined fathering kids for me. It put me in the
    hospital for a week, and out of work at a local restaurant, and out of
    class at the local college for 2 months, by order of the health
    department. The only "son" my late wife and I had was a
    "dachshund"...see tagline below.

    Wasn't aware that chicken pox could do that, actually. That's kind of a shame. :( Well, I mean I think it is, anyway. I know that having my son goaded a change and a level of responsibility/maturity that I wouldn't have been able to attain without him, as well as a level of compassion that I would've never gotten to. I have some friends who choose to remain childfree, and I totally respect that opinion, but at the same time I can tell that they haven't had those changes in outlook that I have. It really adds a whole new facet to humanity and the evolution of the self, I believe. It's definitely a small, crowded world, though, and if everybody were reproducing that would only
    make things worse. Still, I think that things would be a _little_ bit better, maybe, if everybody were to have that added level of selflessness that becoming
    a parent added to most of the people that I've seen have children.
    Then again, I've seen people have children, continue partying their socks off, and let their infant die due to neglect/malnutrition over the course of a really long binge. Well, not personally seen, thank god (I'd be incarcerated for a murder charge pretty quick if I were to personally see something like that, I'm sure), but read about it in the newspaper. So obviously there are people that are completely immune to the effects that I've seen on myself and some others.

    With some people, their pets are their kids...and discipline is
    important with both.

    Absolutely. I knew I was in for a bad stretch in life when I was a kid and saw that the dog I got my mother actually trained her instead of her being able
    to train it. ;)
    Seriously, though, that happened. I've written extensively about the mistakes of my parents, and how I've managed to do fairly well-- at least _I_ think-- learning from primarily negative examples. I really should've caught my mom's dog training her on video the last time I spent time there, before the
    dementia made a relationship with her completely impossible.

    The peer pressure nowadays is horrendous...and I thought it was bad when
    I was growing up!!

    Ack. I dunno, I just moved out of the projects here; it was terrible there, much worse, like you're saying, than when I was a kid. I'm really hoping that it's not quite as severe now that I'm in a better area of town, though. Gonna keep my fingers crossed on that one.

    Whether a single Dad or a single Mom, it still is a big responsibility.
    Even married, it's still a responsibility. Sadly, nowadays, most kids
    think a relationship and committment is measured in seconds, not
    decades. I've heard of cases where they got married Friday night, and
    were in divorce court on Monday. :(

    Tell me about it. I'm still licking wounds from my last relationship. She taught me a hell of a lot about how to be a much better human being, how not to
    judge on stupid superficial qualities, and all kinds of other important things.
    I learned to be a better man because of her. Then I committed to her. Less than three weeks later she dumped me. I still don't know why. After dating for over a year. It's karmic retribution for the way I was in my teens and twenties, I know that much, but i really hope it's done with soon. I'd like my
    son to have a [step-] mother in his life, too, especially once I'm employed full time again. He's had way too much flux in his life, I want him (and myself) to have something that we can count on, and I've never had a stable family-- ever-- my parents sure as hell weren't a family.

    Best wishes and a happy new year to ye!

    --Damo dice, "Perhaps today IS a good day to die!"
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  • From Daryl Stout@1:2320/100 to Damon Getsman on Wed Jan 1 01:48:02 2014
    Hi, Damon...

    Wasn't aware that chicken pox could do that, actually. That's kind
    of a shame. :( Well, I mean I think it is, anyway. I know that
    having my son goaded a change and a level of responsibility/maturity

    First, any childhood disease is MUCH WORSE in an adult. Second, I've seen several posts on Facebook where they wish they waited to have kids, so they could "have a life" first. I have a very weak gag reflex...not to mention having a "bad experience" with an unsupervised child awhile back at a local bowling alley (he destroyed my umbrella, and the parents denied their son
    did it). Plus, the way the world is going, I'm glad I'm not having kids.

    Absolutely. I knew I was in for a bad stretch in life when I was a
    kid and I saw that the dog I got my mother actually trained her instead of her being able to train it. ;)

    Of course...the pet is the most important creature in the home. <G>

    Seriously, though, that happened. I've written extensively about the mistakes of my parents, and how I've managed to do fairly well-- at
    least _I_ think-- learning from primarily negative examples. I really should've caught my mom's dog training her on video the last time I
    spent time there, before the dementia made a relationship with her completely impossible.

    My Mom is doing remarkably well at 87. She has macular dengeration starting in her eyes, so I'm doing most of the driving for her. Both of us are fully disabled (some days, she's in better shape than I am), and I'm only 20
    minutes away from her, if she needs me.

    Ack. I dunno, I just moved out of the projects here; it was terrible there, much worse, like you're saying, than when I was a kid. I'm
    really hoping that it's not quite as severe now that I'm in a better
    area of town, though. Gonna keep my fingers crossed on that one.

    Don't hold your breath...it is RARE to find "well behaved children" in this day and age. The one EXCEPTION I've seen is with the Duggar family of
    northwest Arkansas. Jim Bob, and his wife, Michelle, have at least 19
    kids, and also have some grandkids. But, when he becomes impotent, or she
    goes into menopause, she's going to be a basket case!! The family lives
    debt free (both of them are licensed real estate agents, and at one time,
    he was also a state senator in Arkansas), and their huge home has (count
    them) NINE bathrooms!! I'm sure they run up a huge bill at the grocery store each month, not to mention the supply of toilet paper they get. But, each
    of the kids have supervisory roles in bringing up the younger brothers and sisters. I do not know what "religion" they are, but I want to say they're Pentecostal. But, as noted, the kids are VERY WELL BEHAVED.

    Tell me about it. I'm still licking wounds from my last
    relationship. She taught me a hell of a lot about how to be a much better human being, how not to judge on stupid superficial qualities,

    If I've said this before, I apologize...memory is an issue after a severe concussion and suffering 2 indirect lightning strikes growing up.

    The first woman I was engaged to ALWAYS wanted me to take her to the
    most expensive place...ALWAYS wanted me to pick up the tab...and ALWAYS
    wanted me to forsake everything outside of work, and spend every waking
    moment with her. Basically, I was to do all the GIVING, and she was to
    do all the TAKING. That kind of a relationship does NOT work. At least
    my late wife offered to pay for things...a lot more than I could say
    for my first fiance' -- I broke that engagement just before Christmas
    almost 30 years ago now.

    Best wishes and a happy new year to ye!

    I hope so.

    Daryl

    ... 3 things fail with age. Memory is 1st; forgot the other 2
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  • From Nancy Backus@1:2320/100 to Daryl Stout on Fri Jan 3 18:50:02 2014
    Quoting Daryl Stout to Nancy Backus on 29 Dec 13 01:00:04 <=-

    activity... but I'm still here... not a single father (obviously) nor even a single mom... married with one grown son, no grandkids yet...

    Chicken pox at 20 ruined fathering kids for me. It put me in the
    hospital for a week, and out of work at a local restaurant, and out of class at the local college for 2 months, by order of the health department.

    You obviously had a particularly bad case of it. I thought it was mumps
    that was the fathering-killer disease... since it affects glands. Daddy
    had that when I was in kindergarten, some college student at Wabash
    College (where he was teaching) gave it to him, and he brought it home.
    After me the rest of the kids at the time got it... but Daddy went on to
    father 4 more kids, so he didn't have the bad effects, after all. He'd
    had the chicken pox as a kid, when his brother brought it home from a playmate...

    With some people, their pets are their kids...and discipline is
    important with both.

    Particularly the loving training part of that... :) And the
    consistency...

    Even kids raised in "normal", two-parent, secure homes can end up broken... sometimes it has less to do with the raising, and more to do with the person him/herself... But a child being lovingly raised even
    by just one parent can grow up to be a really well put-together person.

    The peer pressure nowadays is horrendous...and I thought it was bad
    when I was growing up!!

    Always has been, always will be... but one can learn how to not let peer pressure push one into doing things one shouldn't be doing, and possibly provide peer support for others wanting to do the right thing as well...

    Whether a single Dad or a single Mom, it still is a big
    responsibility. Even married, it's still a responsibility.

    Quite true.

    Sadly, nowadays, most kids think a relationship and committment is measured in seconds, not decades. I've heard of cases where they got married Friday night, and were in divorce court on Monday. :(

    Dunno about "most kids", but there is a disturbing trend to not
    understand the concept of commitment... or to give up on it even after
    years of marriage.. I've known too many friends and family members that
    have gone that way...

    The Grinch stole my Christmas...basically, when my dentures broke.

    That's a bummer... :(

    And, with the place I get them prepared being closed until after the
    new year...not to mention having to then set up an appointment to go
    in, it may be 2 weeks before I can "fully graze" again.

    Sigh... Hope they can fix things efficiently for you...

    My New Year's got a bit disgruntled, with my getting sick Sunday night,
    and only now starting to be almost back to normal... Ended missing out
    on my extended family's Christmas get-together on Monday, too...

    ttyl neb

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  • From Daryl Stout@1:2320/100 to Nancy Backus on Sat Jan 4 04:10:02 2014
    Nancy...

    You obviously had a particularly bad case of it. I thought it was
    mumps that was the fathering-killer disease... since it affects glands.

    My brother got it from his first wife's kids, and shared it with me. :(
    They actually put me into isolation, as they thought I was going into encephalitis. Every part of my body was covered...including the genitals
    and buttocks (I couldn't have had sex if I had wanted to). I had to take
    these oatmeal baths for days...I swore I'd never eat that again. That
    was until I had to have all the teeth removed when I was 40...the soft
    stuff diet got old real quick. The disease was like someone had dropped
    me into a vat of itching powder. Pardon the bluntness above, but that
    shows what an extreme case of the chicken pox I had. The doctor noted that
    "it was the worst case he had ever seen".

    Dunno about "most kids", but there is a disturbing trend to not understand the concept of commitment... or to give up on it even after years of marriage.. I've known too many friends and family members
    that have gone that way...

    One couple, after just getting married...15 minutes after they said "I do", was saying "I want a divorce" at the reception. :(

    Another case had the bride speak up at the altar, instead of "holding her peace" (she got cold feet at the altar). Both families were furious...and, that's putting it mildly.

    The Grinch stole my Christmas...basically, when my dentures broke.

    That's a bummer... :(

    I finally got a new set yesterday (Friday)...but I have to go in early
    next week to get a little adjustment on the left side of the lower plate.
    It was my birthday present from my Mom ($425), but still, you can't beat
    that for an upper and lower denture set. Any adjustments during the first
    60 days are free of charge. I didn't care what they looked like...I just
    want to be able to eat. :)

    My New Year's got a bit disgruntled, with my getting sick Sunday night, and only now starting to be almost back to normal... Ended missing out on my extended family's Christmas get-together on Monday, too...

    There is a lot of flu going on down here. I went to the doctor yesterday
    for follow-up blood work. I had my female PCP check an area on my backside
    that had been there for over a year. While I "mooned" my PCP (they've seen
    it all before), she noted it was a "benign fatty cyst", and it was harmless.

    A sore that doesn't heal can be a sign of cancer or diabetes. I'm not diabetic, but have the potential to be type 2. That cyst had been there over
    a year, and the urologist was concerned about it.

    The idea of getting naked for medical personnel doesn't bother me...even if
    I have to have females undress and dress me (especially considering that some days, the arthritis is real bad)...it's just another day at work for them. I still can't get over that female patient going ballistic with the lab tech, over asking her for a urine sample (I'm sure you remember that post).

    I have only taken 2 Excederin Migraine tablets in the last 6 weeks, as
    my PCP told me to STOP all pain mediciation...as it was the cause of my constant migraines...basically, "rebound headaches". So, now...I just suffer...and only take a pain medication when I absolutely have to do so.

    ... Reboot: What you do to the computer after the first kick fails

    Actually, reboot is what you do at night, when you have to go back to
    the outhouse. <G>

    Daryl

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  • From Nancy Backus@1:2320/100 to Damon Getsman on Sat Jan 4 22:31:02 2014
    Quoting Damon Getsman to Daryl Stout on 31 Dec 13 22:46:50 <=-

    Chicken pox at 20 ruined fathering kids for me. It put me in the
    hospital for a week, and out of work at a local restaurant, and out of
    class at the local college for 2 months, by order of the health

    Wasn't aware that chicken pox could do that, actually.

    Mumps at that age or older has that rep... I suppose that if one ran a
    very high temp with chicken pox (or measles, for that matter) one could
    have various things be affected. Childhood diseases do tend to be worse
    on adults that get them... one reason my mom tried to make sure I got
    the measles by making me stay in close contact with a younger sibling
    that did have them... I never did get measles, of any sort, so
    apparently I have a natural immunity there... :)

    That's kind of a shame. :( Well, I mean I think it is, anyway. I
    know that having my son goaded a change and a level of responsibility/ maturity that I wouldn't have been able to attain without him, as well
    as a level of compassion that I would've never gotten to. I have some friends who choose to remain childfree, and I totally respect that opinion, but at the same time I can tell that they haven't had those changes in outlook that I have. It really adds a whole new facet to humanity and the evolution of the self, I believe. It's definitely a small, crowded world, though, and if everybody were reproducing that
    would only make things worse. Still, I think that things would be a _little_ bit better, maybe, if everybody were to have that added level
    of selflessness that becoming a parent added to most of the people that I've seen have children. Then again, I've seen people have children, continue partying their socks off, and let their infant die due to neglect/malnutrition over the course of a really long binge. Well, not personally seen, thank god (I'd be incarcerated for a murder charge
    pretty quick if I were to personally see something like that, I'm
    sure), but read about it in the newspaper. So obviously there are
    people that are completely immune to the effects that I've seen on
    myself and some others.

    Yup... no easy answers... ;) I agree that having a child to be
    responsible for can kick up one's maturity level... as long as one
    accepts that responsibility... :) And similar situations can produce
    the same reponse... like being the oldest sibling suddenly totally
    responsible for the younguns, due to some family catastrophe... And
    then there are those that one wonders why they had a child, since it
    obviously is only a hindrance or an inconvenience to them... probably
    were only thinking of some implied glamour or some such...

    The peer pressure nowadays is horrendous...and I thought it was bad
    when I was growing up!!

    Ack. I dunno, I just moved out of the projects here; it was
    terrible there, much worse, like you're saying, than when I was a kid. I'm really hoping that it's not quite as severe now that I'm in a
    better area of town, though. Gonna keep my fingers crossed on that
    one.

    In a better part of town, things probably won't be as much in your
    face... but there may still be some issues... Just have to help your son
    learn how to deal with peer pressure, and hope that he can make some
    friends that can provide peer support... I suspect things aren't that
    much different from when I was growing up, or when we were raising our
    son, but there seems to be less structured support for kids that want to
    do the right thing...

    Tell me about it. I'm still licking wounds from my last
    relationship. She taught me a hell of a lot about how to be a much
    better human being, how not to judge on stupid superficial qualities,
    and all kinds of other important things. I learned to be a better man because of her. Then I committed to her. Less than three weeks later
    she dumped me. I still don't know why. After dating for over a year.

    Some people are just more committed to the idea of commitment than they
    are to actually handling real commitment... My little brother married a
    woman he'd been living with for a number of years beforehand, she'd been pushing him to commit, and finally he came round, and they got married,
    saying that nothing really would be different in their relationship.
    Less than 6 months later, she wanted out... he was devastated... turns
    out the "non-issues" were more important than they were figuring... and
    her friends treated her differently as a married woman rather than a shacking-up one... go figure...

    It's karmic retribution for the way I was in my teens and twenties, I
    know that much, but i really hope it's done with soon. I'd like my son
    to have a [step-] mother in his life, too, especially once I'm
    employed full time again. He's had way too much flux in his life, I
    want him (and myself) to have something that we can count on, and I've never had a stable family-- ever-- my parents sure as hell weren't a family.

    That certainly doesn't make it any easier for you, does it... ;0 If it
    makes you feel any better, being without a mother is probably better for
    him than having someone that isn't going to be a good mother to him...
    you may be able to be that both mother and father to him that you are
    doing now, and that might be best. Of course, that's not saying that it wouldn't be wonderful to find the right woman that would complete your
    little family and fill in all sorts of gaps... while you do the same for
    her... :)

    ttyl neb

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  • From Nancy Backus@1:2320/100 to Daryl Stout on Mon Jan 6 18:40:02 2014
    Quoting Daryl Stout to Damon Getsman on 01 Jan 14 01:40:14 <=-

    Wasn't aware that chicken pox could do that, actually. That's kind
    of a shame. :( Well, I mean I think it is, anyway. I know that
    having my son goaded a change and a level of responsibility/maturity

    First, any childhood disease is MUCH WORSE in an adult.

    That's generally true... but not always... and true that that there are
    often worse ramifications... but I've known also of adults who had the childhood disease and no lasting ill effects....

    Second, I've seen several posts on Facebook where they wish they
    waited to have kids, so they could "have a life" first. I have a
    very weak gag reflex...not to mention having a "bad experience"
    with an unsupervised child awhile back at a local bowling alley (he destroyed my umbrella, and the parents denied their son did it).
    Plus, the way the world is going, I'm glad I'm not having kids.

    Parenting isn't for everyone... it takes effort, and love and
    commitment, and time and energy... but there are definite rewards as
    well...

    Of course...the pet is the most important creature in the home. <G>

    They might think so... <G>

    ttyl neb

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  • From Damon Getsman@1:2320/100 to Nancy Backus on Wed Jan 8 22:00:02 2014
    Re: Re: Male Single Parenting
    By: Nancy Backus to Damon Getsman on Sat Jan 04 2014 22:23:45

    Mumps at that age or older has that rep... I suppose that if one ran a very high temp with chicken pox (or measles, for that matter) one could have various things be affected. Childhood diseases do tend to be worse on adults that get them... one reason my mom tried to make sure I got
    the measles by making me stay in close contact with a younger sibling
    that did have them... I never did get measles, of any sort, so
    apparently I have a natural immunity there... :)

    Yeah I've heard of other systemic complications becoming more and more common
    as age at onset of infection rises, but the reproductive harm was a new one to me. Gah. I know I got it harder at 14 than most any of the kids I know that got it during the single digits. Thinking back to how bad I had it, it must be
    pretty horrifying at later ages.

    Yup... no easy answers... ;) I agree that having a child to be responsible for can kick up one's maturity level... as long as one
    accepts that responsibility... :) And similar situations can produce
    the same reponse... like being the oldest sibling suddenly totally responsible for the younguns, due to some family catastrophe... And
    then there are those that one wonders why they had a child, since it obviously is only a hindrance or an inconvenience to them... probably
    were only thinking of some implied glamour or some such...

    I always kind of knew that my priorities would get a dramatic reboot for the better once I had someone relying on me.. I don't know, it kind of sounds like
    a wrong reason, doing it for a reason outside of myself, but I don't really know how else to explain it. My priorities were screwed up waaaaay beyond the norm for those ages between my early teens and late twenties. At some point it
    became almost a life or death situation to me; adding the 'almost' might have just been an effort by me to pad how dire the situation was to myself there, actually. Regardless, it didn't happen immediately upon my newly taken responsibility as a fulltime single father, but the change started immediately,
    and it put me onto much more stable ground very quickly.
    I remember some of the ones that you're talking about, purposely getting pregnant in their early teens for reasons of 'implied glamor'... Never did understand it totally, although the idea had some superficial attractions for me, as well. I'm glad I waited until I did; any later and I probably would've ended up in the grave, any earlier, and I probably wouldn't have given my child
    what he or she would truly have deserved as far as opportunity and stability goes.

    In a better part of town, things probably won't be as much in your
    face... but there may still be some issues... Just have to help your son learn how to deal with peer pressure, and hope that he can make some friends that can provide peer support... I suspect things aren't that much different from when I was growing up, or when we were raising our son, but there seems to be less structured support for kids that want to do the right thing...

    He's getting a crash course in that very well now. We're at a place that has
    6 kids on most days, and 8 a few days a week when some of the part-time custody
    kiddies are around. :) It's taking other people to pull me aside and let him learn from the social interaction, instead of wanting to always protect his feelings, but when they help me to realize that he's developing social skills that were always above my level, because I never experienced that or got used to it, well then it's a little easier. I still can't function well in a room where everybody pairs off and/or goes into small, little groups. I'm fine with
    one or two people, or doing speeches to a hundred people. Throw me into a party, though, and I'm doomed to be a wallflower.

    Some people are just more committed to the idea of commitment than they are to actually handling real commitment... My little brother married a woman he'd been living with for a number of years beforehand, she'd been pushing him to commit, and finally he came round, and they got married, saying that nothing really would be different in their relationship.
    Less than 6 months later, she wanted out... he was devastated... turns
    out the "non-issues" were more important than they were figuring... and her friends treated her differently as a married woman rather than a shacking-up one... go figure...

    Hrm... This one really leads me to introspect... Might be a little while before I'm able to process and learn about my own self and what exactly I need vs. what I want vs. what would be best for me on this. I've been struggling with that very issue, I think, since I was in my very early teens, maybe even little before that, as early on as it may seem.

    That certainly doesn't make it any easier for you, does it... ;0 If it makes you feel any better, being without a mother is probably better for him than having someone that isn't going to be a good mother to him...
    you may be able to be that both mother and father to him that you are doing now, and that might be best. Of course, that's not saying that it wouldn't be wonderful to find the right woman that would complete your little family and fill in all sorts of gaps... while you do the same for her... :)

    Well, yeah, it's definitely better for him this way, after what I saw previously in her behavior. It makes things tough, though. I certainly hope that I meet the right woman some day, but I also hope it's at a time when I am able to devote 100% to that woman. Right now I think that's out of my grasp. I just keep expecting everything to go bad, after all the years of knives in the back and other treachery. Not that all of it has been at me; I won't lie, more than a little of it has come _from_ me, as well. :( I'm keeping my fingers crossed, and in the meantime, I shall continue to work on myself. Which is a struggle every day, as I'm presented with unending and repetitive examples of people that are just _perfect_ for pointing my finger at. ;)
    Thank you, for this whole discussion. It is really nice to be able to talk about some of these things.
    Peace & namaste.

    -Damon

    --Damo dice, "Perhaps today IS a good day to die!"
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  • From Nancy Backus@1:2320/100 to Damon Getsman on Sat Jan 11 20:19:02 2014
    Quoting Damon Getsman to Nancy Backus on 08 Jan 14 21:42:43 <=-

    Yeah I've heard of other systemic complications becoming more and
    more common as age at onset of infection rises, but the reproductive
    harm was a new one to me. Gah. I know I got it harder at 14 than most any of the kids I know that got it during the single digits. Thinking back to how bad I had it, it must be pretty horrifying at later ages.

    I think one of the main problems with getting these illnesses is that
    they do tend to come with high fevers... and children are more able to
    cope with high fevers than adults, physically... But not everyone has
    the same issues with them, even as adults... :)

    I always kind of knew that my priorities would get a dramatic reboot
    for the better once I had someone relying on me.. I don't know, it
    kind of sounds like a wrong reason, doing it for a reason outside of myself, but I don't really know how else to explain it.

    Nothing wrong with doing something for someone else... or with being
    focused outside just yourself.. in fact that can be part of maturity...

    My priorities were screwed up waaaaay beyond the norm for those ages between my early teens and late twenties. At some point it became
    almost a life or death situation to me; adding the 'almost' might
    have just been an effort by me to pad how dire the situation was to
    myself there, actually. Regardless, it didn't happen immediately
    upon my newly taken responsibility as a fulltime single father, but
    the change started immediately, and it put me onto much more stable
    ground very quickly.

    Given your unstable situation growing up, I'm not surprised that things
    got pretty dire for you... And getting past that, even in more 'normal' situations, is almost always a growing process, not an overnight thing.

    I remember some of the ones that you're talking about, purposely
    getting pregnant in their early teens for reasons of 'implied
    glamor'... Never did understand it totally, although the idea had
    some superficial attractions for me, as well.

    Lots of reasons, including having someone to love and be loved by... not
    all of them totally bad reasons, but at that age not exactly the
    smartest thing to be doing. But I've seen it in older people, too...

    I'm glad I waited until I
    did; any later and I probably would've ended up in the grave, any
    earlier, and I probably wouldn't have given my child what he or she
    would truly have deserved as far as opportunity and stability goes.

    Hindsight is great, eh...? Sometimes it's hard to really know what
    might have been different, but what is, is what we have to deal with
    now... :)

    He's getting a crash course in that very well now. We're at a place
    that has 6 kids on most days, and 8 a few days a week when some of the part-time custody kiddies are around. :) It's taking other people to

    That sounds like it can get pretty crazy at times.... <G>

    pull me aside and let him learn from the social interaction, instead of wanting to always protect his feelings, but when they help me to
    realize that he's developing social skills that were always above my level, because I never experienced that or got used to it, well then
    it's a little easier.

    Yup, he's learning useful skills. Even if it turns out that he tends to
    be somewhat of a loner anyway, it's good to figure out how to interact
    with others when one has to... :)

    I still can't function well in a room where
    everybody pairs off and/or goes into small, little groups. I'm fine
    with one or two people, or doing speeches to a hundred people. Throw
    me into a party, though, and I'm doomed to be a wallflower.

    I don't think that is an only child thing.... I have the same thing happening... not good in party situations, do best one on one, can give
    a speech to a large group if necessary... ;) And, as I said, I'm an
    oldest of 8... Still pretty introverted, unless there's a good reason
    to come out of it... ;)

    Hrm... This one really leads me to introspect... Might be a little
    while before I'm able to process and learn about my own self and what exactly I need vs. what I want vs. what would be best for me on this. I've been struggling with that very issue, I think, since I was in my
    very early teens, maybe even a little before that, as early on as it
    may seem.

    Probably less important to figure out what you think you need/want or
    would be best, and more important to be willing to do for someone else, unselfishly... think about how needing to be a good father has changed
    how you deal with situations... :) Relationships are a give-and-take situation, and should end up being win-win for both, at least most of
    the time. Which is not to say everything will always be perfect... ;)

    I certainly hope that I meet the right woman some day, but I also hope it's at a time when I am able to devote 100% to that woman. Right now
    I think that's out of my grasp. I just keep expecting everything to go bad, after all the years of knives in the back and other treachery.

    Expectations can be funny things... ;) Have to be careful not to let
    the expectation of bad things happening keep you from doing what you
    could be doing, or rose-colored glasses keep you from seeing the
    situation as it really is... ;) Relationships get built on small
    things, little things in common that build into something bigger... :) Openness and commitment (two bugaboo words <G>) are pretty important,
    too... :)

    Not that all of it has been at me; I won't lie, more than a little of
    it has come _from_ me, as well. :( I'm keeping my fingers crossed,
    and in the meantime, I shall continue to work on myself. Which is a struggle every day, as I'm presented with unending and repetitive
    examples of people that are just _perfect_ for pointing my finger at.
    ;)

    Well, yeah... you'll always see them around.... ;) And have to deal
    with them, difficult as they are... :) And learn to just be a better
    person than the bad examples all around... <G>

    Thank you, for this whole discussion. It is really nice to be
    able to talk about some of these things.
    Peace & namaste.

    No problem... it's being part of a community... :) And one does need
    to talk out some things, to keep from exploding... ;)

    ttyl neb

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