• Re: Explosive Report Details Chinese Infiltration Of Apple, Amazon

    From Juergen Nieveler@1:396/4 to All on Fri Oct 5 05:08:35 2018
    From: Juergen Nieveler <Juergen.Nieveler@gmail.com>

    On 04.10.2018 16:21, Virus Guy wrote:
    Explosive Report Details Chinese Infiltration Of Apple, Amazon And The CIA

    FUD - unless they backup their extraordinary claims with extraordinary evidence, I call bull####.

    The supposed implant would affect the BMC - which normally wouldn't be
    exposed to the Internet (as, in fact, no part of a critically sensitive
    server would be).

    Wake me up when they explain how an attacker gets into a closed network
    from the outside...

    --- NewsGate v1.0 gamma 2
    * Origin: News Gate @ Net396 -Huntsville, AL - USA (1:396/4)
  • From Virus Guy@1:396/4 to All on Fri Oct 5 12:09:17 2018
    From: Virus Guy <Virus@Guy.C0M>

    Juergen Nieveler wrote:

    FUD - unless they backup their extraordinary claims with extraordinary evidence, I call bull####.

    The supposed implant would affect the BMC - which normally wouldn't be exposed to the Internet (as, in fact, no part of a critically sensitive server would be).

    Wake me up when they explain how an attacker gets into a closed network
    from the outside...

    Here is one of the more detailed threads I can find on this subject...

    https://mobile.twitter.com/qrs/status/1047910169261330432/photo/1

    That's the thread. Here's the pic:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dorr6nhX0AMM-6l.jpg

    The thread forks to this one with a better photo:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/qrs/status/1047971275040333824/photo/1


    --- NewsGate v1.0 gamma 2
    * Origin: News Gate @ Net396 -Huntsville, AL - USA (1:396/4)
  • From Virus Guy@1:396/4 to All on Fri Oct 5 14:19:27 2018
    From: Virus Guy <Virus@Guy.C0M>

    Juergen Nieveler wrote:

    The supposed implant would affect the BMC - which normally wouldn't be exposed to the Internet (as, in fact, no part of a critically sensitive server would be).

    Wake me up when they explain how an attacker gets into a closed network
    from the outside...

    It's not that someone on the outside is getting in.

    It's that a trojan horse, baked into the motherboard, can communicate
    with something on the outside. Now how you do that and not be seen
    under presumably intense traffic analysis, I don't know.

    ==============

    Bloomberg Reports China Infiltrated the Supermicro Supply Chain We
    Investigate

    October 4, 2018

    https://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SBI-7128RG-X.jpg Supermicro SBI-7128RG-X

    Bloomberg today came out with an industry shocker. The Big Hack: How
    China Used a Tiny Chip to Infiltrate U.S. Companies. In that article, Bloomberg reports that the PLA managed to infiltrate Supermicro's supply
    chain and add small chips that allowed Chinese agencies to hack into 30 companies such as Apple and Amazon. The company also published, in a
    different article, statements from Amazon, Apple, and Supermicro
    strongly rebutting the story. See The Big Hack: Statements From Amazon,
    Apple, Supermicro, and the Chinese Government. Something is certainly
    strange here, and at STH, we review more server platforms than anywhere
    else on the Internet, including those from Supermicro. We also, by
    chance, started diving into the BMC security space more recently so it
    is clearly time to investigate.

    What is this hack?

    According to Bloomberg, the hack involves a small IC inserted into the Supermicro motherboard PCB. In previous generations, this would have
    been a surface mount component. The story claims current generations
    have these devices embedded in PCB.

    There, of course, has to be much more than a simple chip. That chip
    needs to tap into electrical signals both for power and for data
    transfer. That means that not only must a component be inserted, but
    also PCB wires. Bloomberg says it is in line with memory to CPUs to
    intercept some password validation code. By changing this code in Linux,
    it allows remote attackers to access the servers and potentially phone home.

    That is a little strange frankly from a technical standpoint. Where
    could these chips be located?

    DRAM memory traces are very complex. 288 pins per DDR4 DRAM module (not
    all are data of course), times 8 modules per CPU times two CPUs and that
    is a lot of pins to monitor from such a small IC. Even in the older
    240-pin DDR3 generation, with 16 modules there is no way a small IC can monitor that many wires. Also, memory traces in motherboards are often
    an area where PCB designers spend a lot of time to get correct lengths
    and timings on the wires. Inserting a small IC would not be the easiest
    feat there.

    The other candidates are more probable. The first is using the onboard
    SATADOM wires. SATADOMs are small flash memory devices used to load base operating systems. SATA cables are 7-pin designs with three ground wires
    and two A/B +/- pairs. Supermicro SATADOM connectors have an extra power capability.


    https://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Supermicro-X11SDV-4C-TLN2F-SATA-and-Oculink.jpg
    Supermicro X11SDV 4C TLN2F SATA And Oculink


    This would be a lower pin count option to exploit. The problem, of
    course, is that most large shops encrypt data on the SATADOMs. Most
    SATADOMs do not have self-encrypting capabilities which means it is host encryption. The Bloomberg article said that the hardware would intercept storage to CPU transfers. If the data is encrypted when transferred, it
    would be nearly impossible in that IC footprint to crack reasonable
    encryption and change the OS in-line.

    The final, and perhaps most likely vector would be the BMC. We have a
    piece Explaining the Baseboard Management Controller or BMC in Servers.
    A hardware chip that could impact the BMC firmware is more probable.

    https://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/ASRock-EPC612D8A-TB-ASPEED-2400-BMC.jpg
    ASRock EPC612D8A-TB ASPEED 2400 BMCASRock EPC612D8A-TB ASPEED 2400 BMC


    Each BMC has local storage ever since the 1998 IPMI 1.0 spec was announced.


    https://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Intel-IPMI-v1-September-1998-BMC.jpg
    Intel IPMI V1 September 1998 BMCIntel IPMI V1 September 1998 BMC


    This is generally a very small flash module for storage, often a few MB
    in size. The BMC usually runs a flavor of Linux. Getting root access to
    the BMC is bad, but it is not the same as getting full access to the
    main server OS.


    https://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/ASPEED-AST2500-Diagram.jpg
    ASPEED AST2500 DiagramASPEED AST2500 Diagram


    The BMC has root console access to the server. It is on before the
    server boots. It can mount media and has network access. Think of it as
    an administrator sitting at the machine, but bringing that functionality anywhere in the world.

    BMCs are amazingly hacked devices. The Bloomberg story's comments from
    Amazon and Apple both point to the BMC and IPMI firmware/ management interfaces. We think this is the most likely vector.

    The bad news is that BMC's are extremely dangerous. They are also
    pervasive with a few points under 100% of servers having them these
    days. The Bloomberg article cites the well-known Supermicro BMC/ IPMI vulnerabilities. Supermicro is not alone. Every Dell EMC PowerEdge
    server (edit: 13th generation and older, the new 14th generation has a
    fix to prevent this) has a local and remote exploit available that the
    company can mitigate with patches, but cannot fix. We broke this story
    with iDRACula. If you think you are safe with HPE or Lenovo servers,
    here are BMC vulnerabilities for other vendors.

    https://www.blackhat.com/us-18/briefings/schedule/index.html#the-unbearable-lightness-of-bmcs-10035

    The security community, as a whole, knows that BMCs are both useful if
    not mandatory in today's infrastructure. As a result, the security
    community, and major hyper-scale vendors are putting a lot of effort in researching security solutions.

    One of the more interesting bits is that if it is a BMC vulnerability or anything that “phones home” over a network interface, one would expect
    that security researchers would have seen it. There are companies that
    put boxes on networks just to see what network traffic they create.
    Supermicro tends to build common designs that it ships to multiple
    customers. It would be slightly interesting if only some Supermicro
    servers, e.g. for certain customers were impacted. If China did not do
    this, it would have been caught earlier. If China did limit to a few customers, it would be difficult to target them at PCB. As we will show shortly, Supermicro PCBs are used across products.

    Bottom line, if this Supermicro attack vector is to the BMC, then the Bloomberg story is no bigger than the Dell EMC PowerEdge iDRACula story
    or any others. Saying there is a vulnerability in a BMC is like saying
    the sun is hot.
    Some higher-resolution areas of MicroBlade BMCs

    We had some similar generation Supermicro MicroBlades where we could
    provide higher-resolution photos of their BMC areas. This is where the
    hacked chips are located on the board that Bloomberg depicts. This also
    shows that a Supermicro PCB is spun for multiple products. That makes it extremely difficult to target a specific customer at the time of PCB construction. Here we have two different products built on the same
    underlying PCB.

    For our less technical readers, this is what the actual PCB looks like.
    For our more technical readers, you may want to see for yourself.

    Here are two MicroBlades of that era the Supermicro B1SD1-TF and the
    B1SD2-TF. The “2” represents that the PCB houses two complete server
    nodes. We highlight this because if the attack is present on this
    platform, presumably it would require a second inserted chip which would
    not be required on the B1SD1-TF.

    https://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Supermicro-B1SD1-TF-BMC-Area.jpg


    There are a ton of ICs there. I know we have STH readers who will want
    to look. Have at it.
    The Counterpoint Published Outside of the Main Story

    Bloomberg posts statements from companies, not in their main article,
    but linked in a separate article.

    Amazon, Apple, and Supermicro all deny that this is happening.

    Just for a taste, here is an excerpt from Apple's statement:

    “We are deeply disappointed that in their dealings with us, Bloomberg's reporters have not been open to the possibility that they or their
    sources might be wrong or misinformed. Our best guess is that they are confusing their story with a previously-reported 2016 incident in which
    we discovered an infected driver on a single Super Micro server in one
    of our labs. That one-time event was determined to be accidental and not
    a targeted attack against Apple.” (Source: Bloomberg/ Apple)

    This is a little strange. All three are public companies. A simple “no comment” would have sufficed. Or a “we would not be allowed to comment
    on your classified source story” perhaps. Supermicro one can dismiss
    their lack of knowledge to perhaps the intelligence community not
    wanting to alert anyone there. Apple and Amazon went beyond a simple “no recollection” or “no comment” type response. They should not be allowed
    to make these types of responses if they are untrue since they would be potentially misleading investors. Even if they could not speak about the issues, they did not have to go into the depth that they did.

    Indeed, when we broke iDRACula the persistent (with mitigations)
    non-fixable Dell EMC PowerEdge issue impaction tens of millions of their servers, we held the entire story while Dell EMC's confirmation went
    through legal and management approvals. Having just broken a similar
    story, the responses from parties are in an absolutely sharp contrast.
    Where the Bloomberg Piece Makes No Sense

    There is one area where the Bloomberg piece makes no sense. Supermicro
    servers are procured for US Military contracts and use to this day. Supermicro's government business is nowhere near a large as some other vendors, but there are solutions providers who sell Supermicro platforms
    into highly sensitive government programs.

    If the FBI, or other intelligence officials, had reason to believe
    Supermicro hardware was compromised, then we would expect it would have
    taken less than a few years for this procurement to stop.

    Assuming the Bloomberg story is accurate, that means that the US
    intelligence community, during a period spanning two administrations,
    saw a foreign threat and allowed that threat to infiltrate the US
    military. If the story is untrue, or incorrect on its technical merits,
    then it would make sense that Supermicro gear is being used by the US military.
    Final Words

    First and foremost, I think we need to call for an immediate SEC
    investigation around anyone who has recently taken short positions or
    sold shares in Supermicro. With the accompanying Supermicro stock price
    hit that was foreseeable prior to the story, if anyone knew the story
    would be published, and acted on that non-public or classified
    information, the SEC needs to take action. There seems to have been over
    20 people that knew about this.

    Further, with public companies making statements on the impact, unless
    there is a valid national security/ classified reason that they gave the responses they did, there is a mismatch. Apple and Amazon did not say
    “no comment” they called Bloomberg's account false. The SEC needs to investigate here as well to see if these were publicly misleading
    statements.

    Second, we need a formal investigation into why, if this is a true and
    serious threat, why it was not flagged in military procurement years ago.

    There are parts of the Bloomberg story, the rebuttals from Amazon,
    Apple, and Supermicro, and logical reasoning which point to one key
    takeaway: server security is a big deal. Perhaps the bigger takeaway is
    that this is a 21st-century battleground that is active every day.
    Government agencies from China, the US, Russia, Israel, and others all
    have ways to impact servers and more broadly computing devices. We know
    the Intel management engine has been compromised. There are reports of
    Lenovo laptops phoning home data. It would be naive to think that any
    major world power is not working to get information from compute devices whether they are from Supermicro or another vendor. It is probably
    better to assume your server is compromised and start with that.

    https://www.servethehome.com/bloomberg-reports-china-infiltrated-the-supermicro-supply-chain-we-investigate/

    =================

    A couple of interesting comments at the end of the above story:

    -It's interesting that Supermicro was delisted from NASDAQ 2 months ago
    and this happened afterwards.


    -SuperMicro stock today 12.60 -8.80 -41.12%
    -so down 41% says someone believes the article to be true.

    --- NewsGate v1.0 gamma 2
    * Origin: News Gate @ Net396 -Huntsville, AL - USA (1:396/4)
  • From Juergen Nieveler@1:396/4 to All on Sun Oct 7 07:50:57 2018
    From: Juergen Nieveler <Juergen.Nieveler@gmail.com>

    On 06.10.2018 06:19, Virus Guy wrote:
    It's not that someone on the outside is getting in.

    It's that a trojan horse, baked into the motherboard, can communicate
    with something on the outside.  Now how you do that and not be seen
    under presumably intense traffic analysis, I don't know.

    And it's on the BMC, so it would normally be connected to the Admin net,
    not the Production one.

    Why would an ADMIN network need to be connected to anything else? That's LITERALLY only there for sensitive internal connections, you wouldn't
    hook that up to something with Internet access.

    Not that I'd allow any other server to have access to the outside unless
    it's a webserver, mailserver or suchlike - and THEY go into a DMZ.

    So unless the Chinese got someone inside already, proper network
    configuration would make this whole thing worthless on anything but
    cloud servers.
    --- NewsGate v1.0 gamma 2
    * Origin: News Gate @ Net396 -Huntsville, AL - USA (1:396/4)